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OK, so I've been using a Kaiser/Tilt with Eclair on it for awhile. I've spent countless hours drooling after the Nexus One. When AT&T finally got the "Backflip" from Motorola, I just couldn't resist. I took the plunge.
I should've known better. I have plenty of AT&T horror stories, and this is the same carrier that wont allow you to tell your Java apps NOT to ask for permission more than once (making Opera mini a PITA but the only usable browser for non-smart-phones).
There is NO option to install applications from untrusted sources. This means anything on your SD card, downloaded from the web or over your wifi at home WILL NOT WORK. Naturally, you also cannot use the "su" command in terminal.
Motoblur is nice I guess, but the uninstallable AT&T paid apps, the limitations of 1.5 firmware (ie: no google navigator, no voice search) and the locked-to-yahoo-search-bar are enough to get me to say NO to any further AT&T abuse.
With the Kaiser's bloatware, they removed/hid apps from you so you wouldn't try to use them and replaced them with their crapware.
AT&T does not know the meaning of "open" and they do not understand Android. You are not buying an Android phone when you buy from AT&T.
You are buying a device LOCKED to a market with a smaller number of applications than the iPhone (I don't use Apple products either ) forced to use a lesser search engine for your most convenient option and subject to losing any application that was once on the market but then removed. You can't install your own apps or even test them on your device. Period.
Also on my first day of using it I got a number of "Force Close" messages including on the built-in applications (ie: Motorola's flavor of the desk clock).
It's decent hardware, it feels pretty zippy to me, but this is exactly why I WONT buy an iPhone.
Screw you, AT&T. I will make sure that everyone I know is properly informed about this crippled device that is nothing like the Android experience is supposed to (expected to!) be.
/endrant phew, going to go breathe for awhile.
EDIT: I will add:
- Set "orientation" on this phone when you tilt it and somehow it gets stuck in one orientation or the other (who knows maybe this one is just me, not seen any other backflips) if you set it back to just when you open/close it it's fine again though
- The desk clock can't be launched manually and is tricky to get to appear trying to get the phone in that perfect angle to display it
- I don't have a separate camera on me right now to show you the menu but to back up with sources:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/1910...n_atandt_not_the_full_android_experience.html
https://supportforums.motorola.com/message/121849
Don't buy this phone. Stay away from AT&T, stay away from Motorola (IMO or at least the motorola backflip).
This is pretty horrible.
I have two questions, though.
1) Can you take a screen cap of the Settings > Applications screen so we can see the lack of Unknown Sources option? That'd really help people see the validity of this issue.
2) I hope you have some kind of 30-day money-back guarantee when buying a handset from AT&T like Sprint offers. Otherwise, ouch =/
I haven't tried to install an apk from astro or anything, but i have pushed a few with ADB which seems to work fine. It kinda sucks, but I really hope that we can figure out root access soon! I don't care for blur, but I like android. Hopefully we don't have to wait to long. Here is an ADB guide http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=643866
I wonder if Apple suddenly took over AT&T because this kind of behaviour is more common to them
... It's not only AT&T who manages to confuse their customers about an OSS... Don't forget who decided to lock down an open software system boot-loader for everyone *cough*Motorola*cough*
Apple made them an offer they could not refuse!
nuff said
I spent some time with one yesterday.
Ouch, even my Fuze running eclair is faster.
They really broke this machine.
I am worried about other att phones!
My hope for an even somewhat open x10 on AT&T is starting to dwindle.
HushH said:
My hope for an even somewhat open x10 on AT&T is starting to dwindle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mines as well. i hope they dont. i know its off topic but is there an officail release date for the x10 on att? i hear it may be april/may
Someone more familiar than I needs to figure out the proper java system call to enable unknown/untrusted sources and then post on this thread the proper at command to execute it via CLI. You wouldn't even need root to do this.
IConrad01 said:
Someone more familiar than I needs to figure out the proper java system call to enable unknown/untrusted sources and then post on this thread the proper at command to execute it via CLI. You wouldn't even need root to do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming the software running on the Backflip is the same software they released the source to on opensource.motorola.com, there may be hope of that. I'll dig into it when I get time.
Wow. I am surprised that this was picked up by Gizmodo. Do we have anyone corroborating this? Doesn't this somehow violate Google's terms of service?
HushH said:
My hope for an even somewhat open x10 on AT&T is starting to dwindle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine too! Just means to spend the couple extra hundred dollars and get an unlocked unbranded one.
I got the Backflip just because I am moving on from my jailbroken iPhone and I wanted something neat and shiny.
I can say that there is a lot of smack talk here, but give these guys a chance here to root the phone and get some things working on it.
It's been two days since the release and I can already say, that I like the phone a hell of a lot more today then I did on Sunday. I've been able to install untrusted sources using the Droid Explorer, a bit of a pain in the ass, but it's okay, considering that if I want Android, then this is the only way to go for now.
But I have faith in someone out there... Someone will figure this out.
I just hope it's within my 30 day return policy.
EDIT: I Installed "GDE" on my device and I am able to use the Google search widget... So that issue is sort of solved...
This may just be my unit but the A2DP doesn't work right, it starts playing music then begins to fast forward whatever you are watching or listening to. Did a hard reset, no luck. Looks like I already need a replacement lol.
Squeaky369 said:
EDIT: I Installed "GDE" on my device and I am able to use the Google search widget... So that issue is sort of solved...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please explain how you got the google search widget working?
nutcake852 said:
Can you please explain how you got the google search widget working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh; fail on my part. It's mostly a cosmetic fix. I didn't actually test it, but when you click on it, it changes to "Yahoo".
So my bad on that one.
God, I hate Yahoo. Ever since that stupid ass cowboy did that commercial, it's ate away at my soul...
I don't know why...
To think we were all worried about how Verizon was going to cripple android only to have ATT do it instead. At first I was amazed and then I realized that any android phone would have outshown their prized phone...oh well one more reason to love being on T-Mobile. ;-)
I played with a Backflip. My god it's a horrid phone. And yeah, Android is completely locked down, with no way to delete those AT&T apps and no installing off-Market Android Apps out of the box.
I was going to wait to see what AT&T was going to bring to the table, but I'm not holding my breath.
Btw, I noticed that AT&T trained to sell the Backflip pretty hard. Like, seriously, I was looking at phones today, and every other word out of the rep's mouth was that I should buy the Backflip. Thankfully I'm more informed than that. I walked out with an iPhone instead. (Don't grill me, I use a Touch Pro2, I just needed a good phone for my work line >_<)
Help i ****ed up my phone
So i just rooted my g1 to get the nexus one features to it and now all it is doing is foreclosing instead of going to the home screen if anyone can help can you please email me at [email protected] thank you
Xodium said:
I played with a Backflip. My god it's a horrid phone. And yeah, Android is completely locked down, with no way to delete those AT&T apps and no installing off-Market Android Apps out of the box.
I was going to wait to see what AT&T was going to bring to the table, but I'm not holding my breath.
Btw, I noticed that AT&T trained to sell the Backflip pretty hard. Like, seriously, I was looking at phones today, and every other word out of the rep's mouth was that I should buy the Backflip. Thankfully I'm more informed than that. I walked out with an iPhone instead. (Don't grill me, I use a Touch Pro2, I just needed a good phone for my work line >_<)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really do think though that this is going to end up to be a decent phone.
I know I am a little pro for that comment, just because I bought one. But lets look at every phone that ever comes out. There is always some sort of challenge that we have to overcome.
And; with all the threads I've been reading about this; it looks like it was BOTH AT&T and Motorola that are to blame for locking this phone down. ATT cause they don't want us to install from anything but an "App Store" and Motorola because they don't want their devices used for what "there were not intended to be used for," is the wording I've seen floating around the internet.
But in all seriousness. I am coming from an iPhone 3GS which I had jailbroken. So I am coming from a phone that I had everything and anything on to this, and I am, overall, happy with it. Although it's only been 5 days, I can say I don't think I'll change my mind in the next 25 days.
But that's just my two-cents.
Verizon and other carriers are working with Google to ban rooting phones. Data will get throttled and possibility of the phone getting banned from network coverage.
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).
NOOOOOO,
that sux and i wanted to buy a andriod soon because of the rooting.
I wouldn't see it as a threat the reason being :
Majority of people root they phones just to get the better version of the android software which they would have not got otherwise due to the companies not releasing the updated software so obviously the companies wont bother to send the so called update to this old phones anyway.
Secondly Google seems to trying to close the gap on fragmentation in the android as most phones were updated to the Eclair version. so I believe most of the phones of 2010 will eventually get the Gingerbread release depending on the carrier
and last of all there will always be great softwares released and some one out there will come with a hack or whatever
tfn said:
I wouldn't see it as a threat the reason being :
Majority of people root they phones just to get the better version of the android software which they would have not got otherwise due to the companies not releasing the updated software so obviously the companies wont bother to send the so called update to this old phones anyway.
Secondly Google seems to trying to close the gap on fragmentation in the android as most phones were updated to the Eclair version. so I believe most of the phones of 2010 will eventually get the Gingerbread release depending on the carrier
and last of all there will always be great softwares released and some one out there will come with a hack or whatever
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i completely agree with your first point considering I am one of those ppl! also I rooted my EVO to get better battery life....thats another reason to rooting.
i do see the carriers point of view tho.....they dont want people using the tethering workaround they gain from rooting since that is money that they are missing out on.
i should mention, tho, i am against the carriers doing this!! im just saying that i see where they are coming from
I dont think there is any blocks coming to any of the networks in the UK
This subject has already been discussed - more than once, you'll see, from the link I posted in that thread.
If this takes place, I'll be going back to Iphone.
his was an email I got from my networking team. Just wanted to inform and at the same time get a few informed views.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
tfn said:
I wouldn't see it as a threat the reason being :
Majority of people root they phones just to get the better version of the android software which they would have not got otherwise due to the companies not releasing the updated software so obviously the companies wont bother to send the so called update to this old phones anyway.
Secondly Google seems to trying to close the gap on fragmentation in the android as most phones were updated to the Eclair version. so I believe most of the phones of 2010 will eventually get the Gingerbread release depending on the carrier
and last of all there will always be great softwares released and some one out there will come with a hack or whatever
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know this is my first post, but this thread caught my eye.
the reason they don't want us rooting our phones is because if we do we can use out old phone longer and don't have to pay out he wazoo for a brand new phone. I have a Samsung Moment the last O/S that I could get was Android 2.1 Update 1 which basically rendered the Spring gps useless, and made calls and texts come in when ever they wanted, forcing me to think about a new phone, So i joined the SDX forums and rooted it installed 2.2 with the EB28 rom and so far every thing works as good as a Samsung epic just not 4 g,. which doesn't bother me since I don't video chat.
As far as I am concerned YOU paid for the, phone YOU pay the phone bill its YOURS, you should be able to do whatever you want to with it.
that realy sucks. I dont like that
I wouldn't sweat this too much.
I understand the tethering issue, and I also understand that the base is, and always will be, money. That's the whole point of any business.
Having said that, this community in itself is a market and there are people watching what we are doing and where we are going, because there's cash to be made. If we run into locked bootloaders, dead phones, crappy updates and new phones riddled with bloatware, you better believe that someone else will be ready to snatch all of us up and give us exactly what we want, if not close.
If I owned a company large enough to deliver wireless service, I'd be sitting silently with a squad of high-end 250 dollar unlocked smartphones ready for some good ol "we have your back" marketing. ...granted my wireless was on point and I got good reception.
I don't think us getting into our phones and tinkering with it's innards is ever gonna stop. It might change, yeah, but it won't stop.
damn that doesn't sound to good
even if this happens i'm pretty sure there will be workarounds..
So please explain me how that would work in the court room :
- defendent : I paid for a data plan, and now I am accused of using it
- provider : he has installed an upgraded OS on his phone, your honor !
That would be the same as switching phones (for example if I change my Hero for an unlocked Nexus S, I would be using the same OS as in my hacked Hero), while still having the contract.
I can not see how they can enforce such a thing.
I always buy SIM free phones, so they cant really get me with that as I dont ever get carrier updates.
jh71 said:
So please explain me how that would work in the court room :
- defendent : I paid for a data plan, and now I am accused of using it
- provider : he has installed an upgraded OS on his phone, your honor !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try again...
Defendant: I paid for a data plan that expressly stated that tethering is not included so I fiddled with my phone so that I could do that without paying the appropriate charges.
Network: as you can see, a clear breach of contract.
Not that it would ever reach a courtroom anyway.
waz000000 said:
I always buy SIM free phones, so they cant really get me with that as I dont ever get carrier updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's got nothing to do with it though - I have an unlocked. unbranded Motorola Defy but the bootloader is still encrypted.
Some manufacturers can and do lock down handsets that aren't tied to any one network. Motorola do it, HTC seem to be moving in that direction - only SE are taking clear steps in the opposite direction.
Let's have a go at it one more time:
Defendant :
"Your honor, android is all about innovation, and carriers are ganging up with manufacturares cuz they want more, and more, and more, but are to lazy or incapable, or lacking inspiration. I do root, but tethering might as well not even be there, as it is part of many official out of the box releases. If i root, i do it cuz some manufacturers and some carriers are incapable of offering me the google experience im locking for, and as this is a carrier dominance, i dont have a choice but get the closest device for my budget, and that delivers the closest version to that google experience, and then root it, to get the proper battery life i paid for, and get rid of bloatware, which isnt productive for my needs, as THIS DEVICE IS MINE, I OWN IT!"
Network:
We are directly against Android!!!!
,
if this happend i think hes going to loose a lot of client so i don't think thats going to happend if no root no theme change no a lot of other things no liberty so if they do that i buy an iphone ^^
hey andy...why dont u guys start investing in you own hardware... apple is pretty good at it, google would be a hit. at least a research would be more then worthed.
my, how the tables would turn in such case....
The more I read and hear this, the more I don't believe it will ever happen.
I just received an OTA update for My Galaxy S4 SGH-I337. My phone seized up and I had to take it into Best Buy in order to get the firmware re-installed so my phone would actually work! That was blissful... So now I am now running Android 4.4.2 KitKat! YAY! But not really.
When I got this phone, it was loaded with Android 4.3 Firmware, and for the first time in my life, I have not been able to Root my phone. I looked through all the methods out there, but none of them worked. Some people claim this one and that one, but for me, I couldn't get it to do a darn thing. Well, no big deal, it's not like I really need to root my phone.
Except that you do. YOU NEED TO ROOT YOUR AT&T PHONES!
I noticed that the OS on this 32g model uses an unprecedented 7g of space!!! That's aside from the apps that come with the phone that I will never use. Leaving me with only 21g of space on my phone, which claims to be a 32g model. Again, this is not a big deal, right? You can throw an SD card in there if you need more space...
FINE
Now comes the issue of the AT&T and Samsung Exclusive Applications that are loaded on to the phone when you get it, and ARE IRREMOVABLE! These apps are here to stay. It doesn't matter if you don't use them, or like them, or want your disc space back, screw you AT&T customer, you HAVE to have these apps.
The sickening part about all of this is the mandatory obligation you are put under when getting your new phone. No one tells you that AT&T is going to shove all of this crap down your throat. And it wouldn't be so bad if these apps were removable... it wouldn't be so bad if you could root your phone an remove them yourself... it wouldn't be so bad if you could a custom firmware on the device you just dropped $700 on... I mean, it is your phone, isn't it?
But Samsung & AT&T have gone so far out of their way locking this device down to a point where it is next to impossible to unlock and do anything with!!! Is it really that big of a problem? Someone always seems to find a way around it eventually, so why do it?
Regardless, It looks like I should have bought the Nexus 5, that way my OS wouldn't take up 7g of my 32g of space, and I wouldn't have a bunch of bloatware filling up my phone. I'd love to hear that someone has found a way to root this new NB1 baseband, and allow for custom firmware installation, because I'd like to take this phone back to AT&T and shove it down their throat.
Shibblet said:
I just received an OTA update for My Galaxy S4 SGH-I337. My phone seized up and I had to take it into Best Buy in order to get the firmware re-installed so my phone would actually work! That was blissful... So now I am now running Android 4.4.2 KitKat! YAY! But not really.
When I got this phone, it was loaded with Android 4.3 Firmware, and for the first time in my life, I have not been able to Root my phone. I looked through all the methods out there, but none of them worked. Some people claim this one and that one, but for me, I couldn't get it to do a darn thing. Well, no big deal, it's not like I really need to root my phone.
Except that you do. YOU NEED TO ROOT YOUR AT&T PHONES!
I noticed that the OS on this 32g model uses an unprecedented 7g of space!!! That's aside from the apps that come with the phone that I will never use. Leaving me with only 21g of space on my phone, which claims to be a 32g model. Again, this is not a big deal, right? You can throw an SD card in there if you need more space...
FINE
Now comes the issue of the AT&T and Samsung Exclusive Applications that are loaded on to the phone when you get it, and ARE IRREMOVABLE! These apps are here to stay. It doesn't matter if you don't use them, or like them, or want your disc space back, screw you AT&T customer, you HAVE to have these apps.
The sickening part about all of this is the mandatory obligation you are put under when getting your new phone. No one tells you that AT&T is going to shove all of this crap down your throat. And it wouldn't be so bad if these apps were removable... it wouldn't be so bad if you could root your phone an remove them yourself... it wouldn't be so bad if you could a custom firmware on the device you just dropped $700 on... I mean, it is your phone, isn't it?
But Samsung & AT&T have gone so far out of their way locking this device down to a point where it is next to impossible to unlock and do anything with!!! Is it really that big of a problem? Someone always seems to find a way around it eventually, so why do it?
Regardless, It looks like I should have bought the Nexus 5, that way my OS wouldn't take up 7g of my 32g of space, and I wouldn't have a bunch of bloatware filling up my phone. I'd love to hear that someone has found a way to root this new NB1 baseband, and allow for custom firmware installation, because I'd like to take this phone back to AT&T and shove it down their throat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Switch carrier, or be grateful that you have this powerful smartphone. xD
Moderator Edit - Profanity Removed , that is well known. But the majority of AT&T clients don't know what root is, even, and locking bootloaders is business oriented.
"Oh, you want an unlocked bootloader? Why not get our Google edition S4?"
I'm from Bulgaria, and a friend of mine was on a student brigade in USA, and he got an S4, which I bought from him.
Little did I know it was from AT&T...
I am running Kitkat on it right now.
Bootloader locked, no root yet.
But root will be found, and in time the devs are gonna come up with some really sick ROMs.
Be patient, and when the devs do their magic, don't forget to thank them.
sirobelec said:
Switch carrier, or be grateful that you have this powerful smartphone. xD
Moderator Edit - Profanity Removed
"Oh, you want an unlocked bootloader? Why not get our Google edition S4?"
I'm from Bulgaria, and a friend of mine was on a student brigade in USA, and he got an S4, which I bought from him.
Little did I know it was from AT&T...
I am running Kitkat on it right now.
Bootloader locked, no root yet.
But root will be found, and in time the devs are gonna come up with some really sick ROMs.
Be patient, and when the devs do their magic, don't forget to thank them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's an absolute.
I was running a GS2, with ShoStock3 on it. That rom worked great, stable, smooth, no issues. My son is using that phone now, and he still has had no problems running it.
I guess my biggest problem with AT&T is what they do to a perfectly good piece of hardware. Add all their little apps to it, lock the bootloader, lock the carrier, and bloat the OS to 7 times it's original size (Not an exaggeration). I guess I'm a minimalist. The OS doesn't need to be any larger than it has to. AOSP Roms prove that. 500meg footprint instead of 7gigs!
BTW, the newest upgrade put Beats Music on my phone, and I can't remove it.
Shibblet said:
That's an absolute.
I was running a GS2, with ShoStock3 on it. That rom worked great, stable, smooth, no issues. My son is using that phone now, and he still has had no problems running it.
I guess my biggest problem with AT&T is what they do to a perfectly good piece of hardware. Add all their little apps to it, lock the bootloader, lock the carrier, and bloat the OS to 7 times it's original size (Not an exaggeration). I guess I'm a minimalist. The OS doesn't need to be any larger than it has to. AOSP Roms prove that. 500meg footprint instead of 7gigs!
BTW, the newest upgrade put Beats Music on my phone, and I can't remove it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good sir, can you tell me why AT&T have clients at all? Their devices and fees cheap?
sirobelec said:
Good sir, can you tell me why AT&T have clients at all? Their devices and fees cheap?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their coverage area in Alaska is great. Their customer service and prices are good too. There are not a lot of options for service in the area that I am in, so I tend to go with AT&T, because when I do go out of state, I have usage where I go with no roaming fees and the like. We do not have T-Mobile or Verizon available in Alaska, unless you sign up out of state.
Could be worse. They could put the entire beats audio apk on the phone instead of it just taking up 8k since it links to the play store. While I do agree the os is over bloated at least we can disable apps we don't use and speed it up some.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
1. you can disable any at&t and most Samsung bloat app via the app manager.
2. all bloat combined adds up to a few hundred megabytes, barely making a dent. its the features that differentiate the s4 from lesser devices that take up this extra space. motion controls, smart screen, air controls... these are what take up the space.
3. who keeps data on the device anyway? devices break, devices brick, etc... SD cards are fairly robust and can be removed in the event of a failed device. my music, photos, downloads, etc is on my 32 GB SD card. cloud sync'd data is on internal to save space on the card but that's stored elsewhere anyway.
I love root for one very simple reason: AdAway. I used to just flash new roms immediately upon getting a phone but vanilla is boring. OE stuff is getting pretty good. I used to automatically install Titanium backup and freeze everything that way but the app manager allows us to do this now.
Actually, can we have a thread, for example this one, for general ranting, complaining, hate and such (NONE of it towards fellow xda members)?
I mean, ranting over stuff we can't do much about. AT&T politics, bloatware, etc. Call it stress relief.
And rehab sessions for flashaholics who updated to this locked Kitkat, but now their booze is taken away.
Shibblet said:
I just received an OTA update for My Galaxy S4 SGH-I337. My phone seized up and I had to take it into Best Buy in order to get the firmware re-installed so my phone would actually work! That was blissful... So now I am now running Android 4.4.2 KitKat! YAY! But not really.
When I got this phone, it was loaded with Android 4.3 Firmware, and for the first time in my life, I have not been able to Root my phone. I looked through all the methods out there, but none of them worked. Some people claim this one and that one, but for me, I couldn't get it to do a darn thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you mean you were also unable to root 4.3 mk2? I have rooted.a dozen or so mk2 devices for people with safe root.
If you meant kit kat. Then it was just released be patient.
Bloat ware can be removed once the root is obtained.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I feel your pain......
CAG-man said:
Did you mean you were also unable to root 4.3 mk2? I have rooted.a dozen or so mk2 devices for people with safe root.
If you meant kit kat. Then it was just released be patient.
Bloat ware can be removed once the root is obtained.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a safe root method for 4.3. It's the same as the method for Verizon. My 4.3 S4 is rooted right now. However, I'll only have this thing for about another week. I am fed up with Samsung and AT&T. I still have AT&T grandfathered unlimited data, and that's the only reason I'm still with them. This is my first Android phone and it is FAR from the open experience I expected coming from iPhone (jailbroken of course). Jailbreak was easier than initially rooting this model S4. Then I learned of the locked bootloader.........Knox was the final straw. Samsung can keep their forced security BS. I ordered a 32 GB Nexus 5 yesterday and am jumping off the Samsung ship. Love the hardware, hate that I can do anything I would like to with my device. And no offense to Devs working on it, but I've never waited as long for an iPhone jailbreak to happen on iOS as the bootloader unlock on this thing is taking for somebody to figure out. I'm not sure if it will happen, so I'm not going to worry about it. From here on out, it's only unlocked open phones for me. If I'm up for contract renewal, I'll get the most popular phone at the time from my carrier, sell it, and buy a Nexus/ Google Play Edition device. Camera maybe better on S4, but that's not my primary use anyway. Nexus 5 camera is good enough for me. And I don't have to buy additional parts to get Qi wireless charging.
I think Samsung wants to move to Tizen eventually anyway........so they have full control of EVERYTHING......just like Apple. Not for me.
- Jeremy
Shibblet said:
I just received an OTA update for My Galaxy S4 SGH-I337. My phone seized up and I had to take it into Best Buy in order to get the firmware re-installed so my phone would actually work! That was blissful... So now I am now running Android 4.4.2 KitKat! YAY! But not really.
When I got this phone, it was loaded with Android 4.3 Firmware, and for the first time in my life, I have not been able to Root my phone. I looked through all the methods out there, but none of them worked. Some people claim this one and that one, but for me, I couldn't get it to do a darn thing. Well, no big deal, it's not like I really need to root my phone.
Except that you do. YOU NEED TO ROOT YOUR AT&T PHONES!
I noticed that the OS on this 32g model uses an unprecedented 7g of space!!! That's aside from the apps that come with the phone that I will never use. Leaving me with only 21g of space on my phone, which claims to be a 32g model. Again, this is not a big deal, right? You can throw an SD card in there if you need more space...
FINE
Now comes the issue of the AT&T and Samsung Exclusive Applications that are loaded on to the phone when you get it, and ARE IRREMOVABLE! These apps are here to stay. It doesn't matter if you don't use them, or like them, or want your disc space back, screw you AT&T customer, you HAVE to have these apps.
The sickening part about all of this is the mandatory obligation you are put under when getting your new phone. No one tells you that AT&T is going to shove all of this crap down your throat. And it wouldn't be so bad if these apps were removable... it wouldn't be so bad if you could root your phone an remove them yourself... it wouldn't be so bad if you could a custom firmware on the device you just dropped $700 on... I mean, it is your phone, isn't it?
But Samsung & AT&T have gone so far out of their way locking this device down to a point where it is next to impossible to unlock and do anything with!!! Is it really that big of a problem? Someone always seems to find a way around it eventually, so why do it?
Regardless, It looks like I should have bought the Nexus 5, that way my OS wouldn't take up 7g of my 32g of space, and I wouldn't have a bunch of bloatware filling up my phone. I'd love to hear that someone has found a way to root this new NB1 baseband, and allow for custom firmware installation, because I'd like to take this phone back to AT&T and shove it down their throat.
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Even when we do get to root the phone, you will not be able to reclaim any of that space.
Sorry.
It's not the OS...
joeybear23 said:
Even when we do get to root the phone, you will not be able to reclaim any of that space.
Sorry.
It's not the OS...
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Click to collapse
That's lame... but can you explain why? Is this area set aside as a cache or something?
Also, I have searched for the answer, but I can't figure out why they would go through the trouble of locking the bootloader and kernel down with a chastity belt. Any idea why they did that too? I'm just a firm believer that "rooters gonna root" regardless of how difficult they make it.
It just makes me think of things in terms of games like Oblivion and Skyrim where the developers don't really care how many mods people make for their game, they don't lock it down and keep people from doing it.
Shibblet said:
That's lame... but can you explain why? Is this area set aside as a cache or something?
Also, I have searched for the answer, but I can't figure out why they would go through the trouble of locking the bootloader and kernel down with a chastity belt. Any idea why they did that too? I'm just a firm believer that "rooters gonna root" regardless of how difficult they make it.
It just makes me think of things in terms of games like Oblivion and Skyrim where the developers don't really care how many mods people make for their game, they don't lock it down and keep people from doing it.
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Click to collapse
The space is locked down for use by the ROM, and it is just written that way for the device, and devs have not been able to unlock it.
As for locking the bootloader, I am sure ATT is sick of eating up the expense of replacing phones as "defective" due to user ignorance. People brick phones left and right and then turn it back over to ATT and have to give a new phone in exchange. ATT can certainly repair them and reflash them, however they can only then be sold as refurbished units which hits them financially, not to mention the man-hours needed for reflashing them. Each device maybe takes a few minutes, but multiply that by thousands of returned devices and it is a compelling case for keeping future users from doing the same.
I have rooted every Android i've owned, so don't get me wrong... but if I break the thing I wouldn't be one of those trying to make ATT pay for it.
"As of 7 June 2013, the 2000th Aventador, an Aventador LP 700-4 with Nero Nemesis (black) body colour, was built and destined for the United States owner Thaddeus Arroyo, Chief Intelligence Officer of AT&T."
- via Wikipedia.
sirobelec said:
Switch carrier
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Click to collapse
Just a heads up on this note..
It appears that the Galaxy S5 will have a locked bootloader not just on Verizon (the original basturds) and AT&T (the follow-up basturds), but also T-Mobile now (the new basturds).
Supposedly, only Sprint will have the "unlocked bootloader". Though they will likely still have KNOX.
So if anyone wants an S5 and AOSP, they need to go with Sprint or wait and pay full price for the Google Play Edition.
Anybody interested in the bootloader and unlocking it I encourage you to sign this petition. These phones are ours to use how we see fit and the more noise we make the better our chances are. I bought this phone under the assumption that nothing had changed and for Samsung to change their policies without notice isn't acceptable for me and hopefully you as well. Thank you
Petition
Dude, there's honestly no point. Ive been on xda for about 10 years and ive always need to root every single android phone ive owned. Until recently, Samsung started making pretty good android phones starting with the s6 and up. I had no reason to root my s6, note 5, and now no reason to root my s7 edge. Im not saying you should have no need to root yours, i just feel like Samsung and android have come a long way and nowadays rooting serves no purpose;for me at least. Is rooting worth losing Samsung pay or any other security features we need to protect us? Not really. Also, Samsung can change their policies as they please, you still bought their phone. Rooting died a couple years ago, move on. Best of luck with your petition.
No point is simply just not true. I haven't even looked at a Samsung until the S6 last year and I got the M9 instead. Now with HTC dumping boomsound on the M10 I switched after 8 HTC phones. While I agree Samsung has come a long way not only in hardware but software and you can do more things now without root I still miss it a lot. Have this phone a week now, not having root sucks. It's just not the same. While yes you can do quite a bit without it, there is still plenty missing. People saying that root is dead or they don't need it is just denial for the fact that things have got so locked down it's not worth justifying the hassle which might just be true.
Let's say knox was never developed, triangle away still worked so you could also go back to stock and you could flash away with an unlocked bootloader everyone would be singing a totally different tune and you guys would be rooted. Now that Samsung has total control, we have to justify it to ourselves on why it makes sense not to root which frankly right now I think is the case.
kennypow3rs said:
Dude, there's honestly no point. Ive been on xda for about 10 years and ive always need to root every single android phone ive owned. Until recently, Samsung started making pretty good android phones starting with the s6 and up. I had no reason to root my s6, note 5, and now no reason to root my s7 edge. Im not saying you should have no need to root yours, i just feel like Samsung and android have come a long way and nowadays rooting serves no purpose;for me at least. Is rooting worth losing Samsung pay or any other security features we need to protect us? Not really. Also, Samsung can change their policies as they please, you still bought their phone. Rooting died a couple years ago, move on. Best of luck with your petition.
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Click to collapse
Its all good if you have no interest then that's fine but I for one do. I hate touchjiz and the bloatware that is just the tip of the iceberg. Rooting will never die maybe some people don't but most that have rooted will always want it. Thanks for your input though. Without root we really don't have any need for a development section so this forum will likely die. I'm jumping ship to the lg g5 until samsung does something if they ever do.
brendan802 said:
Its all good if you have no interest then that's fine but I for one do. I hate touchjiz and the bloatware that is just the tip of the iceberg. Rooting will never die maybe some people don't but most that have rooted will always want it. Thanks for your input though. Without root we really don't have any need for a development section so this forum will likely die. I'm jumping ship to the lg g5 until samsung does something if they ever do.
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Click to collapse
I personally have no problem with Samsung locking things down. In fact for the general pop it will be great, but since we live in the free world it Samsung should still allow the option of choice. As long as they have the proper disclaimer in place that warns of consequences the one can make the decision. I think the big reason for the locked bootloader has to do with carriers leasing the phones. Since rooting breaks the pay app and can't reversed. Just imagine if you got a previous leased phone and the pay app doesn't work. What samsung should do is allow for a complete reset factory action including knox. Maybe not have it available to the general public but maybe the carriers or somewhere higher up. This would give the best of both worlds.
kennypow3rs said:
Dude, there's honestly no point. Ive been on xda for about 10 years and ive always need to root every single android phone ive owned. Until recently, Samsung started making pretty good android phones starting with the s6 and up. I had no reason to root my s6, note 5, and now no reason to root my s7 edge. Im not saying you should have no need to root yours, i just feel like Samsung and android have come a long way and nowadays rooting serves no purpose;for me at least. Is rooting worth losing Samsung pay or any other security features we need to protect us? Not really. Also, Samsung can change their policies as they please, you still bought their phone. Rooting died a couple years ago, move on. Best of luck with your petition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude you've been here 5 years. I've been here 7. Neither of which matters. Rooting didn't die any more than rock and roll did when disco came along.
I drive a semi and without root I can't get the headphone, or bluetooth, volumes high enough when running through the trucks stereo. And before you start talking about headphones, those that cover both ears are illegal and i don't like listening through only one ear. So I want root. If you don't that's wonderful for you, but please don't step onto a developers board, claim seniority you just don't have, and try to tell people the board has become meaningless.
DreamingWolf said:
Dude you've been here 5 years. I've been here 7. Neither of which matters. Rooting didn't die any more than rock and roll did when disco came along.
I drive a semi and without root I can't get the headphone, or bluetooth, volumes high enough when running through the trucks stereo. And before you start talking about headphones, those that cover both ears are illegal and i don't like listening through only one ear. So I want root. If you don't that's wonderful for you, but please don't step onto a developers board, claim seniority you just don't have, and try to tell people the board has become meaningless.
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Click to collapse
This is my second account ive definitely been here since the palm and original HTC touch days with Windows pocket lol. But to the point, rooting is dead per se, but there's definitely less of a reason to do so these days. Touch wiz is damn near perfect. Even for those thay dont like it can slap a launcher on it. I see no purpose to root, i can block ads with ad guard. Also stock android doesnt have all the bells and whistles either so id rsther stay stock. Again, i know others may need it, but i was simply saying its pointless thess days. I still come here for many other things, just not to root.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
kennypow3rs said:
This is my second account ive definitely been here since the palm and original HTC touch days with Windows pocket lol.
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I stand corrected.
kennypow3rs said:
Again, i know others may need it, but i was simply saying its pointless these days.
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Are not 'needed' and 'pointless' antonyms? You just refuted your own statement.
And I don't use stock android. I use rooted and modded versions of Sprint's base ROM. The only stock versions I have truly liked and used are by Temesek, and those tend to be few and far between on Sprint variants.
I also never use Touchwiz. It's been NovaLauncher for years now for me. And I just prefer all the little conveniences and tweaks that you can make with root. Like an extended power menu without having to add more apps from Google Play. And several diagnostic tools I use to troubleshoot when I have a weak or slow signal where I shouldn't.
So I'm really happy that your content to live with what Samsung and Sprint deign to allow you, I'm not. And since these boards seem to be doing just fine, I would guess that there are enough people who agree with me to make your opinion not nearly as wide spread as you believe it to be.
And one final question, if you believe rooting is pointless and dead, why are you still on these boards?
DreamingWolf said:
I stand corrected.
Are not 'needed' and 'pointless' antonyms? You just refuted your own statement.
And I don't use stock android. I use rooted and modded versions of Sprint's base ROM. The only stock versions I have truly liked and used are by Temesek, and those tend to be few and far between on Sprint variants.
I also never use Touchwiz. It's been NovaLauncher for years now for me. And I just prefer all the little conveniences and tweaks that you can make with root. Like an extended power menu without having to add more apps from Google Play. And several diagnostic tools I use to troubleshoot when I have a weak or slow signal where I shouldn't.
So I'm really happy that your content to live with what Samsung and Sprint deign to allow you, I'm not. And since these boards seem to be doing just fine, I would guess that there are enough people who agree with me to make your opinion not nearly as wide spread as you believe it to be.
And one final question, if you believe rooting is pointless and dead, why are you still on these boards?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still come here for other things, like questions i may have, apps, reviews, and ive been here for so long i still help others when i can. Its still a community i am apart of regardless if i root or not.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Root or not to root is a matter of opinion, I think it is far from dead or useless imo.
I have rooted every phone I have ever had that it was capable on within 24 hours of getting the phone just because I want to put on the phone what I want not what Samsung thinks I want.
I don't fit well with the masses and rooting let's me be that way with my phone....
That said this has been seen before on other devices and has been worked around by the amazing devs on this sight.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Rooting will never die unless the manufacturers kill it. It has too much of a following with people that love to root and need to root. So yes no root is a huge deal for me I'm coming from a Nexus 6 where I had multirom and weekly updates. The phone never gets boring when it is unleashed and rootable. I have had the Edge for about a week and I'm already bored/frustrated with it. I'm going to the Sprint store today to try and return it. My Nexus 6 flies compared to the S7 Edge even though its specs are way better. Hardware can only get you so far the software is what makes the phone fly. The stock S7 Edge has so much BS bloatware and unneeded stuff that slows it down significantly. Give me the international one and maybe I would keep it. Also, the Samsung pay is a joke for me because it doesn't support any of my banks or cards. I will be preordering the LG G5 or waiting for the next Nexus.
We should have the option.
I don't really need to root today, because I primarily use the phone for business and I don't want to have it down because I change my mind on which ROM to pick every 6 hours.
But I want the option to get rid of the ****, yes, ****, they put on this phone. Why they load junk I can't get rid of is beyond me.
If we can't control the phone, I'll have to jump off the Samsung bandwagon next year...no matter how good they make it.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
brendan802 said:
Anybody interested in the bootloader and unlocking it I encourage you to sign this petition. These phones are ours to use how we see fit and the more noise we make the better our chances are. I bought this phone under the assumption that nothing had changed and for Samsung to change their policies without notice isn't acceptable for me and hopefully you as well. Thank you
Petition
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there one for Sprint? This petition does not go to them at all.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
So I've had this thought about this locked bootloader problem. I am not sure if this is a viable solution or whether it would even work. I was thinking that our European brethren has an unlocked bootloader. Would there be a way to Odin their bootloader on our devicesor would the fact that they have a different processor be a problem. Because in theory if we had a Samsung sign Odin file of with an unlocked bootloader we should be able to Odin and have a unlocked bootloader, no? Or is there more to it than that?
El.Dante565 said:
So I've had this thought about this locked bootloader problem. I am not sure if this is a viable solution or whether it would even work. I was thinking that our European brethren has an unlocked bootloader. Would there be a way to Odin their bootloader on our devicesor would the fact that they have a different processor be a problem. Because in theory if we had a Samsung sign Odin file of with an unlocked bootloader we should be able to Odin and have a unlocked bootloader, no? Or is there more to it than that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good question. But no, it would not work. Not even because it's a different processor, which that is part. But say if T Mobile got an unlocked bootloader, it would not work for Sprint. Nor would it necessarily help to know how it happened and use it as a road map to unlock another carrier's bl.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
not so fast
mkeller96 said:
Rooting will never die unless the manufacturers kill it. It has too much of a following with people that love to root and need to root. So yes no root is a huge deal for me I'm coming from a Nexus 6 where I had multirom and weekly updates. The phone never gets boring when it is unleashed and rootable. I have had the Edge for about a week and I'm already bored/frustrated with it. I'm going to the Sprint store today to try and return it. My Nexus 6 flies compared to the S7 Edge even though its specs are way better. Hardware can only get you so far the software is what makes the phone fly. The stock S7 Edge has so much BS bloatware and unneeded stuff that slows it down significantly. Give me the international one and maybe I would keep it. Also, the Samsung pay is a joke for me because it doesn't support any of my banks or cards. I will be preordering the LG G5 or waiting for the next Nexus.
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Click to collapse
I would suggest waiting to see if the bootloader is locked down on the lg g5 before ordering. I was not planning to root my s7e, but I must say I was curious to see what this powerhouse was capable of if unleashed from touchwiz,sadly I will never know.:crying:
Anyone else receive an OTA update this morning from Sprint? Took about 15 minutes to download and install.
I'm now showing software version G935PVPU2APC5.
runner77 said:
Anyone else receive an OTA update this morning from Sprint? Took about 15 minutes to download and install.
I'm now showing software version G935PVPU2APC5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have Ota's stopped, but i haveapb5.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Root
I have a sneaky suspicion that the Sprint S7 & S7 Edge will end up just like the
ATT Note 5 and S6 Edge/Edge+ phones and will NEVER have root. LOL
I would strongly advice & suggest NOT to get rid of your current rooted phones at least not yet!!!
(unless you buy a different brand which can be rooted)
Have a great day!
El.Dante565 said:
So I've had this thought about this locked bootloader problem. I am not sure if this is a viable solution or whether it would even work. I was thinking that our European brethren has an unlocked bootloader. Would there be a way to Odin their bootloader on our devicesor would the fact that they have a different processor be a problem. Because in theory if we had a Samsung sign Odin file of with an unlocked bootloader we should be able to Odin and have a unlocked bootloader, no? Or is there more to it than that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the firmware for the Chinese model s7 edge it is the closest match to ours and the firmware will not load in odin. It checks against the model and csc codes so we couldn't even cross flash with t-mobiles firmware. I have the bootloader posted over in t-mobile forums and a few people are poking around to see what can be done. Unfortunately bootloader and hardware hacks are nothing I have ever done before.
Seems like every phone has problems and Android itself has endless problems. The Nexus 6P has an LTE bug where you can't receive calls and it hasn't been fixed in months. The OnePlus forums are full of people hating their phones and the latest OTA for Marshmallow bricks some of their phones. I don't know what to buy. There are lots of complaints about the S7 here also. I am coming from BlackBerry and was totally satisfied but there is no way to live in the modern world without an Android phone or iPhone it seems.
Is the S7 still worth buying, all else considered equal?
I guess main problem is Android 6.
Further, you have to worry about Samsung knox, locked bootloader, etc. when you want to root.
But, the device itself is great. Just use another launcher and you will be happy (at least, I am... except for worrying that root may be gone due to updates on day)
Oh, also, I disabled all updates, so no security updates aer installed. That might be a problem too...
I am not sure I want to root. This will be my first Android phone. I need it for work and travelling and it has to work. I know the device itself is great and I really want one. I just don't know if I missed something since now that the phone has been out for a while people are complaining as much about this phone as every other phone
I don't know anything about launchers or Android or anything. How can I get started learning after I buy a phone? Thank you.
midnightrider said:
I am not sure I want to root. This will be my first Android phone. I need it for work and travelling and it has to work. I know the device itself is great and I really want one. I just don't know if I missed something since now that the phone has been out for a while people are complaining as much about this phone as every other phone
I don't know anything about launchers or Android or anything. How can I get started learning after I buy a phone? Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't know anything about root, android, whatsoever, you won't have to worry. Just buy the thing and it'll work. That's enough for the average crowd. The non average are reading/posting on xda They want to know the ins and outs of their device. They want control of their device without being restricted by anything or anyone.
Bright.Light said:
If you don't know anything about root, android, whatsoever, you won't have to worry. Just buy the thing and it'll work. That's enough for the average crowd. The non average are reading/posting on xda They want to know the ins and outs of their device. They want control of their device without being restricted by anything or anyone.
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Click to collapse
Oh I respect that completely. I am a developer and I have played around with phones in the old days, had a hacked Nokia with custom startup etc. As far as this device goes at this point I am too busy with other things and don't expect to play around with it. There is only so much time in a day!
I know you guys are the experts which is why I am asking. As far as Android itself goes, I hate it. It has a worse security track record than Windows and the quality is worse too! They just found the whole disk encryption with Qualcomm chips is broken[1][2][3]. It's one gigantic embarassment after the next with Android.
I want something that's going to work as well as possible given the crappy software environment it has to work with. If it wasn't for you brave guys breaking your phones the rest of us wouldn't have access to anything nearly as good as we have now! Thanks!
[1] https://bits-please.blogspot.com/2016/06/extracting-qualcomms-keymaster-keys.html
[2] http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-crack-android-encryption-on-millions-of-smartphones/
[3] https://lwn.net/Articles/693115/
Always remember people never go online to write compliments. I personally love this phone. There is also a google+ community where you will get some honest feedback. Most people in that community will be honest about their experience as well as here.
Sent from my SM-G930F using XDA-Developers mobile app
midnightrider said:
Oh I respect that completely. I am a developer and I have played around with phones in the old days, had a hacked Nokia with custom startup etc. As far as this device goes at this point I am too busy with other things and don't expect to play around with it. There is only so much time in a day!
I know you guys are the experts which is why I am asking. As far as Android itself goes, I hate it. It has a worse security track record than Windows and the quality is worse too! They just found the whole disk encryption with Qualcomm chips is broken[1][2][3]. It's one gigantic embarassment after the next with Android.
I want something that's going to work as well as possible given the crappy software environment it has to work with. If it wasn't for you brave guys breaking your phones the rest of us wouldn't have access to anything nearly as good as we have now! Thanks!
[1] https://bits-please.blogspot.com/2016/06/extracting-qualcomms-keymaster-keys.html
[2] http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-crack-android-encryption-on-millions-of-smartphones/
[3] https://lwn.net/Articles/693115/
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Click to collapse
Exploits are found all the time on ios,Windows and a android, basically if it's a system built by humans there's almost always going to be some type of flaw somewhere. As much as this is pretty big one the chances of it actually affecting you are probably nil. I would get the device and enjoy it for what it is, rather than worrying over this and that.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
seedubya said:
Always remember people never go online to write compliments.
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Click to collapse
I don't think that's true. There are more fanboys for Samsung phones than people willing to bash something they spent 800 bucks on.
I saw some scary threads here like the one on broken rear camera lenses. The replacements are on ebay by the millions already. I don't understand how companies can put out faulty products and charge so much for them. But silly me, I ordered one yesterday. It hasn't shipped yet. But I'll be unhappy if it has problems. It's supposed to be the best you can get. What else is there?
Hopefully not a complete threadjack
So I am currently running a rooted S4 and am thinking it's time to upgrade. And don't hate me for asking this: Now that we have root available for the S7, is this the phone to get or should I hold out to see what the next Nexus phone actually is? Would like to keep the SD card port that doesn't seem to appear in any of the nexus rumors. Am worried that now the root method is out, it'll be patched before the Nexus release and my choice becomes moot. Thanks.
Im_Gumby said:
So I am currently running a rooted S4 and am thinking it's time to upgrade. And don't hate me for asking this: Now that we have root available for the S7, is this the phone to get or should I hold out to see what the next Nexus phone actually is? Would like to keep the SD card port that doesn't seem to appear in any of the nexus rumors. Am worried that now the root method is out, it'll be patched before the Nexus release and my choice becomes moot. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I could choose, then I would get a device with 128Gb memory without SD card.
Why? Because google f*cked up Android with SD cards. They just don't get it that we want control over the media on the SD card!
But, I like this S7 because of the camera, display and weather proof (let's try to be careful and don't drop the phone in the toilet please...)