Hopefully this catches the eyes of those who need to read it most...
Too many people are trying to take the easy road and post a new thread on a subject or idea, usually asking a question about something that has already been answered instead of doing a simple search!
I've been a member here for a couple years now and haven't needed to post very much because, if you take the time, the information is out there. 99.9% of the time, you aren't the first person to ask a question, have a problem, or hit a wall.
If you're having trouble doing something that was posted in a thread, POST YOUR QUESTION IN THAT THREAD!!
It seems as though there are a lot of newbies who are anxious to root their Inc, which is fine: If you pay attention, read the instructions and most of the thread before you begin, and follow them to a T . Every time I have a problem either rooting or installing a ROM or something else, I am the one who did something wrong.
Some of you are probably new to the Thread concept, which is also fine. It's very frustrating getting used to how they work, and learning the "right" way to do things- but trust me, it's worth it.
Posting a new thread is like standing on a chair in the middle of a crowded room and screaming out a question. If your in the wrong room (i.e. wrong section), people are going to be upset. If the question was already answered by another group (i.e. another forum), people are also going to be upset. If you aren't sure if you should start a new thread, you probably shouldn't.
Take the time and READ THE RULES! Here they are if you don't know where to find them:
New forum rules, please read!
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
2.2 Nudity: XDA is used by people of all ages, including minors. It's not acceptable to post nude/pornographic imagery, which includes exposure of the male or female genitalia or of female breasts.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 New Members: Treat new members the way you would have liked to have been treated when you were a new member. Provide the new members with guidance, advice and instruction always with respect and courtesy.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
3. Post only using a clear subject and message.
You're most likely to receive a helpful answer to your question if you use a short subject title that describes your problem and a message that explains in detail what your problem is and what you've tried to solve it.
4. Use the English language.
We understand that with all the different nationalities not everyone speaks English well, but please try. If you're really unable to post in English use an online translator, You're free to include your original message in your own language below the English translation.
5. Post a message only once.
As a large forum we don't need unnecessary clutter, You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time, it might take a while before you receive an answer.
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.
7. Do not spam.
If you wish to advertise a product, contact us we provide ads. But do not post it in the forums, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban.
You are however allowed to sell used goods like your own device, parts of your device or accessories for your device in the marketplace forum, please read the rules there before posting. (This rule includes signatures, if you use a signature it will appear in your post)
8. Donations.
We appreciate all donations to xda-developers.com, it keeps our forum online and well maintained. As a user you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work. However donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
11. Don’t post with the intent on selling something.
As an elaboration to rule number 7, don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. If you are the proprietor of a for-pay product or service, you may use XDA to get feedback, provide beta access, or offer support on the product, but you may not make any posts with the primary intent of selling. This includes posting press releases, announcements, or links to downloads for trial software. The only exception to this is when you’re posting an exclusive release to XDA.
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So instead of starting a new thread like "How do I.." or "Where do I" or "Why can't I..." Do a search of the threads, Google it, or even hop on over to PPC Geeks, Trust me- you'll find the answers you're looking for.
BTW - Thanks to Mikey1022 for moderating
+100000000000000000000000
I wish people had to read this before they could post new threads. This forum seems to be worse than most of the other android forums on xda... not sure why.
Everyone who disagrees with this should check out the nexus one forum to get an idea of how lax things are here.
You better watch it. Some people may take offense to this. people also have to be aware when they do make a new thread that it is in the correct section. Too many questions are being posted in Development instead of General. Let's keep the sections on topic so people can find what they came looking for.
I agree, but I can see the other side as well.
The "Root process" thread is up to 108 pages. Sure, searching helps, but you are still poring over pages and pages of forums for hours. I kind of learned that this was the buy-in from my WinMo days, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.
One advantage to sticking to existing threads, however, is that people who are successful will probably post back to that thread, with any variations they used, whereas they are less likely to post to a new thread.
Calibob2001 said:
Hopefully this catches the eyes of those who need to read it most...
Too many people are trying to take the easy road and post a new thread on a subject or idea, usually asking a question about something that has already been answered instead of doing a simple search!
I've been a member here for a couple years now and haven't needed to post very much because, if you take the time, the information is out there. 99.9% of the time, you aren't the first person to ask a question, have a problem, or hit a wall.
If you're having trouble doing something that was posted in a thread, POST YOUR QUESTION IN THAT THREAD!!
It seems as though there are a lot of newbies who are anxious to root their Inc, which is fine: If you pay attention, read the instructions and most of the thread before you begin, and follow them to a T . Every time I have a problem either rooting or installing a ROM or something else, I am the one who did something wrong.
Some of you are probably new to the Thread concept, which is also fine. It's very frustrating getting used to how they work, and learning the "right" way to do things- but trust me, it's worth it.
Posting a new thread is like standing on a chair in the middle of a crowded room and screaming out a question. If your in the wrong room (i.e. wrong section), people are going to be upset. If the question was already answered by another group (i.e. another forum), people are also going to be upset. If you aren't sure if you should start a new thread, you probably shouldn't.
Take the time and READ THE RULES! Here they are if you don't know where to find them:
So instead of starting a new thread like "How do I.." or "Where do I" or "Why can't I..." Do a search of the threads, Google it, or even hop on over to PPC Geeks, Trust me- you'll find the answers you're looking for.
BTW - Thanks to Mikey1022 for moderating
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much time did you spend writing this? No ones going to pay attention.
Calibob2001 said:
Hopefully this catches the eyes of those who need to read it most...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know they won't. The ones who post these repeated topics are the ones who freak out when they're lost, post a topic, and hit refresh all day instead of looking for the answer. The only ones who actually read this are the ones already pissed off about it.
barry1685 said:
How much time did you spend writing this? No ones going to pay attention.
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Click to collapse
LOL, I didn't even read it. Just scrolled to through the comments
bluetooth_decay said:
I agree, but I can see the other side as well.
The "Root process" thread is up to 108 pages. Sure, searching helps, but you are still poring over pages and pages of forums for hours. I kind of learned that this was the buy-in from my WinMo days, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.
One advantage to sticking to existing threads, however, is that people who are successful will probably post back to that thread, with any variations they used, whereas they are less likely to post to a new thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are so many pages of topics because of the issue that is being described. There is a very handy function called "search" that, while not perfect, at least narrows results down for you. You can search within a Section, Topic or down to a single thread for key words.
Odds are, if you are on here you know how to navigate the web. If you can't perform a basic search in a topic or thread then please don't try to root your phone or follow any instructions to change, modify or "hack" anything.
As was brought out by [OP], if you WANT to do something that you think will be useful to you, read up on it. If you do run into an issue, search the key word of your issue. Entering "boot loop", "frozen", "Error message 123" will return something to help you find your answer. Odds are, you are not alone and, if you find you are alone, return to the thread where you were following instructions to do whatever it was you want to do and post a reply describing your issues. [OP] or others who are familiar with the process will help. Patience is a must.
barry1685 said:
How much time did you spend writing this? No ones going to pay attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Far too long than I care to admit - My first draft was rather angry and the overtone has calmed quite a bit...
And even if ONE newbie reads it and gleans even a whisper of insight as to how to operate the forums, then I have been 100% successful- even if 1% of those who read it take this to heart, at this point, that's still 2 fewer Threads the moderators have to close down...
MY Gripe
My biggest grip is those people: "What Music Player Are You Using" I don't really care and that's usually a personal preference. After joining the android section of XDA three months ago. It's astonishing to see how many DUMB post go up...It makes android users look idiotic? I'll admit I'm a noob but you don't see me posting stupid crap all over the place. This time I believe I've found the right section to express my opinion. I still can't get over how many crappy posts are out there. UGH
~PLUR~ Peace Love Unity Respect
DJyoSNOW
Impatient PMers
What's really not acceptable and why I actually stopped helping people in the "Newbie Forums" is because when people wanted more information/answers, I would start to help and then soon after I would receive a PM asking for more help, which is wasteful because then instead of answering the question(s) for the site as a whole, only you are getting your "quick fix".
I am a noob.
I read it and it explains alot.
Thank you. Your site is very helpful and has saved me from problems in the past.
I have posted something once and i was really in a bind but no reply on it. I always search for my questions first and with alot of digging i can find the answers (Most of my answers came from you site by people that blow me away at how knowledgable they are) and most of the people who answer questions are very patient here, (even though there was a thread right above the question with the answer) thank you guys for doing great work.
Again i am very new to all of this and i couldnt be writing this from my rooted incredible with s off and cm 6.0.2 that is overclocked and i did some minor hacks via your forums. Thank you again.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I read it.. nice post very Mich appreciated.. not a newb but sometimes feel that way when I'm stuck!
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I'm sorry to have been THAT guy.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Thank You
I read threads on this site every single day but I am much more involved in Android Central (they are smaller and less cluttered IMO), however, I rarely post anything because if you just dig a little deep you WILL find you answer in here.... I just wanted to Say THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS... I FEEL THE SAME WAY EVERY FRIGGIN DAY.... in the time that it takes for someone to post a new thread and wait for a response, they could have already found the answer themselves. and to top it off, you can search the threads for specifics....
I THINK THAT YOUR OP SHOULD BE A STANDARD WARNING TO ANY AND EVERYONE THAT WANTS TO START A NEW THREAD
lol, you've been a member since 08 and you're just now figuring this out? No offense, but I doubt this will do any real damage. I constantly see these threads and it doesn't do anything cause people will ALWAYS keep posting stuff like this unless it's a hidden subforum. Its ****ty, and I don't mean to rain on your parade, but it's just how it works on forums.
one main problem i see, and im sure its why so many people post the same question 12 different times, is the search on the forums suck, you can type in a specific thing and even if you switch between thread or posts, it brings up EVERYTHING (example: i need to find "honeycomb launcher dock" do i type that in the search, it will bring up EVERY post or thread with ANY of those words in it, and 99.9% of the time its ROMs, no apps, .apk files or anything close to what you are looking for, now when ive looked for a ROM, yea like you said it works 99.9% of the time, with anything else its crap) .to me that was a terrible terrible mistake made by the person that set up the "search tool" on this site. and i think THAT is why there are soooo many "double" posts. the search tool needs to be set up the correct way.
Sonic Design said:
one main problem i see, and im sure its why so many people post the same question 12 different times, is the search on the forums suck, you can type in a specific thing and even if you switch between thread or posts, it brings up EVERYTHING (example: i need to find "honeycomb launcher dock" do i type that in the search, it will bring up EVERY post or thread with ANY of those words in it, and 99.9% of the time its ROMs, no apps, .apk files or anything close to what you are looking for, now when ive looked for a ROM, yea like you said it works 99.9% of the time, with anything else its crap) .to me that was a terrible terrible mistake made by the person that set up the "search tool" on this site. and i think THAT is why there are soooo many "double" posts. the search tool needs to be set up the correct way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could enclose those words in quotes, but then it would have to match that phrase perfectly. I personally use google instead of any forum searches as none of them are really all that great (unless I'm searching a particular users' posts).
codybear said:
You could enclose those words in quotes, but then it would have to match that phrase perfectly. I personally use google instead of any forum searches as none of them are really all that great (unless I'm searching a particular users' posts).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea very true, i like to take what most GM's here say and change it
"google is your friend, the forum search is not"
A great resource to help with Google searches are at the google is your friend link in my signature. I usually direct people to that when they say they can't find anything using Google. Just thought I'd point it out so everyone can help spread this resource to those that are not Google savvy.
Related
I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
(edit) A wiki that's easier to edit and navigate, e.g., mediawiki, which would mean
More folks updating the wiki with the ability to edit subsections
More folks viewing the wiki with auto-created tables of contents
(edit)A single 'post your questions here' newbie thread to limit the amount of new threads created
(edit2)A thread or wiki entry linked at the top of every forum with proper forum etiquette.
(edit2) idea about restricting users according to post count removed
All of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
UPDATE 03-13-08
Thanks to Flar and the mods for pushing for new forums! Hopefully these changes, along with more member contributions, we will be able to fight back the redundant thread problem. I've noticed that quite a few senior members have taken a similar stance as I have with new users & redundant threads. I've been trying to either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place, or
given the noob the links he wanted.
If you're genuinely interested in helping others, you'll realize that two of the three ways actually teach a person new things, which means they'll be better off on their own, while #3 only encourages them to ask more questions.
Finally, for all of you that may be new or have less post counts, it's not the amount of time you've been here reading, because that's not contributing back to the community. So my suggestion to you would be to come back and re-read this thread after you've contributed back to the forum by having at least 500+ genuinely helpful posts and see if you feel the same way.
And I don't mean suggestions to fix a soft key issue by bashing the keyboard with a screwdriver, like someone who has flamed this thread
_Alex_ said:
I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
Restrict new threads to members (30 posts), forcing junior members to reply to existing threads. If new threads continue to be a problem, increase the limit to senior member status (100 posts).
More folks updating the wiki
actual comments for wiki updates so folks know what's new(I'm guilty of not doing this too) or an actual what's new page.
Both of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more. A big part of the problem is the refusal of some to read or search before posting. When they don't get an immediate answer in an existing thread they start a new one. Maybe the answer is to allow the number of daily posts to be restricted by member status, with senior members being unresticted and moving downward from there.
To bad you can't put all of the threads inside the new sticky. That way, to post a new thread, you had to go thru the new sticky. Other than that, the only option I can think of is to hunt the redundant thread poster down and dismember them slowly on live t.v. broadcasted only to XDA members.
Edit:
I personally vote for my second option.
Agree with both suggestions. Mods...any comments? I have not dealt with forum software before...are those restrictions able to be implemented with this forum?
I've always liked the idea of limiting new people from starting threads, but I don't think we can judge on number of posts. I think this will just end with people joining, throwing an extra 30 useless posts into the first threads they come across, then posting their question thread.
I've always liked the idea of making someone wait 24 hours between registering and posting AT ALL. This way, we can still help those people with a genuine problem fairly quickly (rather than making them wait a week) but still weed out those who ask questions that could be answered by 2 seconds of thinking or looking.
Just my 2 cents!
Great suggestions _Alex_. There should be a stew time for new forum members. A 30 post limit should do it because by then one should have learned a little bit at least.
And now that there's a Google search box near the top of the page HOPEFULLY that cuts down on redundant new post.
@kwickone - Yes, it's possible and quite easy at that.
maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.
Perhaps a rethinking........................................
Okay, this is a common problem on here. Over and over -- endless threads on this subject. It cannot be solved with current technology.
Embrace the problem.
Sandwich method:
Commend them on their new purchase of the new phone they got. Great!
Then advise them to search. Read and learn.
Then Commend their enthusiasm for Any effort they show.
...
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
This forum has turned into a user manual / tech support.
sd73ta said:
maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There already is a noob section...the problem is no one reads it!
I waited 3 months before my 1st post or flash. I shadowed the threads, followed the chefs at that time (Faria, Molski, Xelencin, Risidoro) and watched the results of people flashing their ROMs. I waited till all was clear before I flashed.
Nowadays, people are buying expensive devices and just jumping into deep water without knowing how to swim and the cry to the lifeguard for help.
Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers
dwny said:
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
Maybe it is an idea to have it a bit like the "Facepunch forum" of GMOD. (for non gamer, it a HL2 mod forum) They had exactly the same problem only a little bit bigger then it is on this forum.
They solved it by some sort of rate system. Forum users can rate a post. If a user get a certain amount of negative points he is banned from the forum for 24 or something like that. You can also rate someone if he makes clever remarks or usefull contributions and rate him with a "thanks!"
This way people know they are being watched for stupid questions that are posted over and over again and search before they do something stupid. After all, saying stupid thing will cost you a time ban.
If you want to know exactly how it works. Register at the facepunch forum to check it out. It really does work. http://forums.facepunchstudios.com/
Shadowdh said:
Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even from my rudimentary knowledge of PHP based forums such as XDA, that would be extremely prohibitive in terms of processing power. Context-sensitive searching (even cached) is very resource intensive, and even implementing it on the Kaiser section ONLY would probably bring the boards to an impressive crawl.
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems a bit extreme. I bought my Kaiser and spent two or three days reading the wiki, boards, and specific threads about the Tilt. Still, I had a few questions that weren't addressed by existing threads and needed to start at thread. I agree with Alex's idea that there should be a delay (or post count check) for starting a new THREAD, but certainly not posting in general.
Likewise, I'm beginning to toy with cooking my own ROMs, and what if I was interested in starting my own thread to announce its availability? Certainly I shouldn't be required to append it to an existing (and likely unrelated) thread?
To the OP's original concern, I don't think it's a terribly unique thing to XDA. I frequent many forums, and it happens everywhere, particularly those which address technology or relationships. Everyone seems to think that their issues are unique and that they won't be covered in an existing topic. Likewise, many people just aren't comfortable with reading technical specifications, instructions, or explanations. I have dozens of friends capable of READING manuals for the devices they own and getting exactly what they need, but they don't trust the accuracy of the information unless I tell it to them myself.
Reading a bunch of instructions and trusting they are accurate is much scarier than having someone explain it to you, even if they're just regurgitating information already contained in dozens of wikis, texts or posts. This is the primary reason we have TEACHERS; most people are capable of reading everything they need to know, but prefer to have someone relate it to them in a way which caters to their understanding.
Long-winded thoughts aside, I agree with Alex's suggestions in their entirety.
i dont agree with the whole 30 or 100 postsbefore starting a tread but i do agree with the fact that it's annoying to read the same stuff over and over again people comming in with the same problems and questions but there are also people like myself that are longtime members but actually do read alot of posts so that they dont need to ask anything and dont make the 100 or so recommended post before starting a new tread..
but thats my opinion
I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help.
Assuming I actually did search for my answer and wasn't able to find anything, where would I turn? If I can't start a new thread, I would have no choice but to hijack a different thread. That would probably upset the people involved in that thread more than creating a new thread that they could easily ignore.
How about the new thread button routing through search? So that when you entered the title, it did the search, and at the bottom of the search results there was the button that actually started a new thread.
Steal Google's Idea
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site.
?????
...
Jewcookie said:
This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
tdsuen said:
I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's where the problem lies.
How many new issues are there actually? Most of the issues are when people have a problem with a specific ROM. What's been happening lately is that the Rom threads are huge now and to gain attention to their inquiry, people are starting new threads. If you take a look at who's doing this, it's members under 3 months
(Just my opinion & observation)
zcink said:
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site. ?????
Okay still Drunk at the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... It's great to see a drunk guy contributing to this thread as it adds a touch of humor to the entire situation
FWIW, one of the new members decided to post their opinion about our frustration venting over in the regular Kaiser forum (which I read very infrequently because I know that's going to be filled with support requests).
I'm wondering how many new users will chime in on that thread...
arrogance and elitism (were all here for the same thing)
Why not add a few more Mod's and just delete them (threads or posts) quick and easy? Have an automated response to the person that: "the answers you needed were already posted in another thread".
dwny said:
It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree that there needs to be some forum etiquette that needs to be followed, especially regarding new threads. The question is how we go about enforcing it...
Hopefully the mods/admin will read this thread and take our suggestions to heart.
Sober
Okay
A totally Sane -- Sober guy -- was just joking bout the drunk part.
A Huge Search Engine
You have to go thru the search Engine box to enter this site.
You can't miss.
Anyone who does not search will be Shot On site and put into the Ovens!
I just thought of this idea, and I really don't know how easy it is, and I have a feeling it just might work. With all the newbs that come in and don't read the wiki...don't read the rules, they post all these redundent threads. How about, in order to register to this forum, you have to take a test. This test will consist of certain questions from the wiki. I'm pretty sure this is a wild idea and getting this to work with this forum might be some work, but if it is done, I'm pretty sure this will reduce a lot of redundent threads. Of course, the test shouldn't be that hard if person read the wiki.
Just a crazy idea. Lock this thread if you think I'm insane.
edit: sorry, should say interesting idea for this forum, not thread.
Not a bad idea, needs some working out. To read the correct Wiki the first question would probably have to be "what phone do you own?"
I don't know about a test but maybe a period after you join you can read all the forums but cannot post for a set amount of days maybe. Thats just my 2 cents.
-McMex
its gonna be hard since a lot of us use different machines..its a good idea to somehow limit the noobness of these people posting redundent threads...but i guess it'll be hard to change the habits of those that just post rather than search
btw...i dont think this is kaiser rom development
maybe somehow mod the way we post...like have a label beside the "post" button asking if they hav searched or not and stuff like that so that the user can double check and think through before posting it..
just a thought...
maybe before someone can view the thread, there would be a pop-up menu (search thread menu) or something like that, that the user will be asked to input their querry and a list of links will be given for their easy access...hehe.
maybe we should not answer anything
and just say wiki
and thats it
nothing else
so that they will read the @@@@@@ wiki at last
another thought...maybe give like warning points or w/e...then after so many points u will have limited access or w/e then resulting in a ban if it continues to occur that they dont search answers for themselves first
wait doesn't the owners of this forum get paid more by having more threads from their advertisers?
idk i used to run a forum and thats how it worked with all our advertisers...
I think the purpose is not to piss people off by setting the rule to search first before you post, rather than preventing people to post. I don't think a test is a good idea because everyone has different learning capabilities.
i agree with the learning capabilities..but its the people who dont even want to learn...then just want other peple to give them the answer so they can happily enjoy their phone rather than learning it and finding it out for themselves...
bapssystupr3m3 said:
i agree with the learning capabilities..but its the people who dont even want to learn...then just want other peple to give them the answer so they can happily enjoy their phone rather than learning it and finding it out for themselves...
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agreed....
I'm with McMexican...
Probationary period of no posting for 7 days to familiarize yourself with the site, and read the WIKI(s).
Don't know why you guys playing the new ones. YOU WERE ALSO LIKE THEM!!!!
Another redundant thread.......
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=371254
I think we should have a separate wiki just on ideas 'cause there are so many of these now.
Now, to make my post related and not a space waster, how about this:
When somebody posts a new thread, after they hit "Submit reply", a script searches for keywords in their post and brings up a search result that might be related to their post. The poster can then ignore the posting if any of the search result is relevant or continue posting if search results are not relevant. To not make this feature an annoyance, the script only works when somebody's starting a new thread. How about that, eh?
I think every non-noob should hyper link "Wiki" or some other informative link in their signature. I think the more people that do that, the less redundancy will occur. just my two cents.
muthaflaco said:
I'm with McMexican...
Probationary period of no posting for 7 days to familiarize yourself with the site, and read the WIKI(s).
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Meanwhile you have some user who has bricked his phone and can't post for 7 days, and doesn't understand the wiki and then starts to send PMs to all the names he sees on the forum.
Every forum has this problem. There's not much really that you can do about. Either ignore the redundant posts or help them out. Your choice.
The easiest and most fun way would be to have them agree to search first and be aware that Senior Members can and will ridicule, belittle and flame you if you post a redundant thread. Make that text BIG and BOLD then they check the I agree and can proceed with registration.
This reminds them of the rules and if they don't follow we can do what we do best, make fun of them, laugh, and maybe send them in the right direction.
bapssystupr3m3 said:
another thought...maybe give like warning points or w/e...then after so many points u will have limited access or w/e then resulting in a ban if it continues to occur that they dont search answers for themselves first
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I really like this idea!!
Thread for Post Count
How about a thread, for users who make posts like this mine right now. It should be called "Increase your post count thread", this will serve posts like
1. Dumb noob questions (There usually have less than 10, so it will help them).
2. Posts to flame noob posts.
3. More Posts to follow up flaming.
4. More Posts that think this thread is more useful than a noob asking a stupid question because you can read and flash a phone.
5. Posts about how to make a perfect forum but not really do anything about it.
If I can think of more and don't have anything else to do with my life I will make my own thread with a big long list. Then ask for a sticky and be
While the ideas in this thread are good, as P1tater mentions, they are certainly not new.
I've come to an acceptance that there will always be someone who didn't take the time or effort to read before posting. Rather than thinking about different ways to force them, we should treat them with some amount of respect and either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place
Both of these methods will teach the user how to properly use this site. A bit of chastisement never hurts, as long as one of the two criteria is met.
Since that thread was created two months ago, alot of things happened. Some notable mentions are:
Kaiser Software & ROM Development forum
G.W.E.N.I. links & Kaiser FAQ
Shipped & Cooked & Radio ROM wiki
Sticky Rollup & easier wiki navigation
Actions always speak louder than words and this forum runs on user contributions. If you're reading this thread now and wondering what you can do to assist the community:
The Kaiser FAQ needs work, converting GWENI links into Q/A, to be truly an FAQ.
New questions and answers are always appreciated too.
Cooked ROMS is outdated and needs regular maintenance.
Hope this helps!
I know i don't have the BEST reputation around here but i know what i am talking about for the most part and i am begging for you to help clean up this site and forum. For the last few weeks the number of repetitive posts has been absolutely ridiculous, every time I get on XDA i see so many threads that all ask the same thing. There are some many users that apparently think that this site is a tech support site and do not respect us at all. I know that XDA is THE site for the latest info on windows mobile and now android, but people seem to join just to ask simple questions like "my phone is stuck on t-mobile G1 screen" or "BRICK PLEASE HELP!!" most of the people on this site have lives and jobs but i do not. i have no problem helping new members and old members alike, but i do have a problem with stupidity. if a member is not capable or not willing to search for an answer then they either A. don't need it, or B. shouldn't have tried to begin with. i beg that every member on this site go through the first 10 pages of this development forum for our dream and count how many repetitive threads there are open or closed.
i request that we get another mod, i know neoobs and mikey are very busy and do not have time to monitor the forum 24-7 even between the two of them. if we were to get another mod for the forum i think we could start closing/deleting threads that have no right being opened/started, i am not saying that we need to start closing threads left and right, but i know there are at least 10 threads in the first ten pages that talk about Bricked phone that either tried the new SPL, or some other reason. if we had another mod then repeat threads could be closed after a link or answer, that way we aren't completely rude to people but we can keep the forums clean.
Also i realize we can't just go banning people left and right, but if a person joins XDA and in a week has only posted a few times and all posts have been new threads asking about things that have been discussed in detail then they should be suspended to give them a chance to learn how to use the search function and read a few threads and the rules.
i also agree with this.
everytime i log on to xda i have to catch up with a couple pages of new threads and its ridiculous.
I think if u went through those pages u would see 3 threads saying the same think. Well I thinks some got removed (just like this one will) but frankly I don't think there is solution maybe if u had to take quiz befor you could become a member or something. I have I had mistakes on here when i started about posting dumb stuff but yeah that's my 2 cents.
I agree the activity level of this forum (448 - Dream Android Development) ought to merit additional moderation. I mean absolutely no disrespect to those already volunteering their time to keep things tidy -- quite the opposite.
I'm only posting in this thread to voice the opinion that a couple more mods might go a long way to keep some of the more basic questions and chatter relegated to a more appropriate venue (447 - Dream, most likely) and keep the front page ripe with the glorious development meat we all crave.
I'm not saying I'm the chap for the job, but I'd sure be willing to pitch in if consensus agrees there is need. I f5 the site pretty much all day as it is.
I tend to agree but I'm a newb around here still more or less, well to xda anyways. I try to help folks but lose my patience when someone quotes the answer and asks for help. It did give me an ambitious idea though along the lines of a catchall guide for rooting fixing your phone.
i do not think that the solution is as simple as a quiz since this site is a great place for so many phones(anything made by HTC) and no one quiz would cover everything. i am not saying that i need to be the moderator, but i wouldn't complain if i was. i respect the mods that we have and i think they are doing an excellent job. i don't have a job, and don't go to school, i spent about four hours a day sleeping and tthe rest of my time i am either on Xda or trying to find some new fun thing to do with my phone. i do not really have any one specific person in mind that should or could be a mod, but i think that with just one more person they could make a wold of a difference on this forum. just think about it that's all i'm asking
One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.
One thing that I think would definitely help the clutter is if the stickied posts are very clearly and plainly worded- almost to the point of "dumbing it down", so the newbies can understand it. For example, someone reads in the market that a program requires "root". They decide they are up to try rooting, and look here for the answers. There is a nicely written sticky by Koush that covers it all. That is a nicely written and easy to follow thread. But wait, now they read that Cupcake is out...just look at all the options. Unless they knew they were looking specifically for "JFv1.51 CRB43" how would they know where to start? Set the standards for stickies high (especially the titles!), and maybe it will catch some of the newbies.
Just my $.02
tubaking182 said:
I know i don't have the BEST reputation around here but i know what i am talking about for the most part and i am begging for you to help clean up this site and forum. For the last few weeks the number of repetitive posts has been absolutely ridiculous, every time I get on XDA i see so many threads that all ask the same thing. There are some many users that apparently think that this site is a tech support site and do not respect us at all. I know that XDA is THE site for the latest info on windows mobile and now android, but people seem to join just to ask simple questions like "my phone is stuck on t-mobile G1 screen" or "BRICK PLEASE HELP!!" most of the people on this site have lives and jobs but i do not. i have no problem helping new members and old members alike, but i do have a problem with stupidity. if a member is not capable or not willing to search for an answer then they either A. don't need it, or B. shouldn't have tried to begin with. i beg that every member on this site go through the first 10 pages of this development forum for our dream and count how many repetitive threads there are open or closed.
i request that we get another mod, i know neoobs and mikey are very busy and do not have time to monitor the forum 24-7 even between the two of them. if we were to get another mod for the forum i think we could start closing/deleting threads that have no right being opened/started, i am not saying that we need to start closing threads left and right, but i know there are at least 10 threads in the first ten pages that talk about Bricked phone that either tried the new SPL, or some other reason. if we had another mod then repeat threads could be closed after a link or answer, that way we aren't completely rude to people but we can keep the forums clean.
Also i realize we can't just go banning people left and right, but if a person joins XDA and in a week has only posted a few times and all posts have been new threads asking about things that have been discussed in detail then they should be suspended to give them a chance to learn how to use the search function and read a few threads and the rules.
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So, I've been hanging around and reading this forum since around November last year. That is about 2 full months before I even bought my G1. I love this forum, I can always find the answers I need and I have NEVER once posted a new thread. I use the search function, follow links posted in other forums and just plain old read. That is why I'm probably still listed as a noob. The thing is I have experience in a multitude of forums on a multitude of different topics and items so I know to usually keep my mouth shut unless its a contribution or an emergency. With that said...
The problem is that not everyone knows forum etiquette. Not everyone has been to a forum community and knows how to search. Not everyone knows that search doesn't always work so now its time to scroll threads. Not everyone knows patience like us to take our time to learn. In fact, I think most of the noobs here probably don't know anything about forums, what their about and how they work. All they know is they got a new G1 and SOMEONE said, "hey, you wanna make you phone cooler, go to www.xda-developers.com", or "how did you get that wifi tether thing to work?" So, they show up totally confused and excited to make their g1 experience better. They search a little, read a little and end up completely lost like I did the first time I joined a forum because they really don't know anything but they want to learn. I know we post, "Read this first or get locked", or something like that, but they honestly don't know what to do. This is, in fact a forum, which is defined as a place to meet to discuss things. If we just want to dictate and not discuss, ask questions, answer, and help then why have an open forum?
I will give you this though, there are those that just don't care, know rules, know the proper flow of events and know how to do it in general but still just do what they want. The problem is, though, those are few and far between.
I constantly have to ready, "why is this thread here?", or "mods lock this please", or "don't you know how to use the search function"? Maybe the answer to that question is NO. So why not bee true senior members and answer the question but teach how to use search instead of ridiculing and acting like they are stupid. The fact is new people will ALWAYS show up to forums and will ALWAYS ask questions that you feel are dumb, and ALWAYS start threads without searching or reading so why get mad about it? Answer the question or don't answer the question and blow it off. Why such a big uproar?
Just my .02, sorry if my rant pissed you off and I hope you don't lock me for it.
gospeed.racer said:
One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.
Just my $.02
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I couldn't agree more. Maybe more Forum Titles would help instead of just development? We could start one call How To's. I would click there first in a heart beat and then find the thread about how to do things.
gospeed.racer said:
One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.
One thing that I think would definitely help the clutter is if the stickied posts are very clearly and plainly worded- almost to the point of "dumbing it down", so the newbies can understand it.
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This is most certainly the case. I spent a lot of time writing and rewriting my SPL and HTC_CIME sticky posts so the first post would be as structured and easy to understand as possible.
That said, some people are also just lazy, don't know/care about stickies, or just don't have reading skills. Also, this is a hacking community. Information and developments move quickly. The sticky posts often become irrelevant or contain obsolete information pretty quickly. You have to just trust that the owner of the sticky will keep it maintained... but that's not always the case.
The basic problem here is do you promote inclusiveness or would you rather have a small pool of high quality members? If it were up to me, any time someone starts a new thread to ask "how i root" or "my a2sd broken HALP" it would be instaban.
setzer715 said:
I couldn't agree more. Maybe more Forum Titles would help instead of just development? We could start one call How To's. I would click there first in a heart beat and then find the thread about how to do things.
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in my experience, more subforums at this stage of the game almost always causes more headaches for mods than they assuage
re: your previous post -- i really feel you on the forum etiquette point, but it's hard to use that rationale to justify "PLEASE HELP - URGENT!!1" threads in the development forum, imo.
I am not a fan of wiki's, but a sub-forum for a Wiki style "how to" sounds to me like a great idea. It would be up to the OP's to keep them "fresh" though. Give all the developers a place to put their stuff, and keep questions out of it. Just recent, fresh methods and software, and easy to follow instructions. I wish I had something to contribute, as I really think this idea may help.
gospeed.racer said:
I am not a fan of wiki's, but a sub-forum for a Wiki style "how to" sounds to me like a great idea.
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xda has a wiki actually. No one uses it though. Also, you'd be a fool to think that just because there is a well maintained wiki that newbies won't keep posting their spam anyway.
jashsu said:
xda has a wiki actually. No one uses it though. Also, you'd be a fool to think that just because there is a well maintained wiki that newbies won't keep posting their spam anyway.
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I don't think we were actually saying another wiki. By the way you'd be amazed at how many people don't know what wiki is. Anyways, I think we're talking about a specific "How To" section that cant be posted on or responses on. It will have have How To's for Root, A2SD and whatever should go there.
alapapa said:
in my experience, more subforums at this stage of the game almost always causes more headaches for mods than they assuage
re: your previous post -- i really feel you on the forum etiquette point, but it's hard to use that rationale to justify "PLEASE HELP - URGENT!!1" threads in the development forum, imo.
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I agree, it would take more moderation. Someone to step and and handle it and I'm pretty sure the guy that started this thread was already asking for that. I'm just trying to off my opinion on what that new mod or mod's could moderate.
I'm really not trying to rationale the posts, I'm simply trying to provide a different point of view. As I've stated before, anytime there is an open forum for anyone to join there will ALWAYS be those posts. We could make it exclusive, where even I couldn't be part, but what would the point of that be? I thought the point was for people to share information and knowledge? Either way, lets let the dev's and mod's figure out what to do. I just hope I get to stick around.
setzer715 said:
I don't think we were actually saying another wiki. By the way you'd be amazed at how many people don't know what wiki is. Anyways, I think we're talking about a specific "How To" section that cant be posted on or responses on. It will have have How To's for Root, A2SD and whatever should go there.
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A stickied thread that indexes the [HOW TO] threads works pretty well for this purpose w/o as much overhead
setzer715 said:
I just hope I get to stick around.
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i wouldn't worry. I don't think anyone (in their right mind, that is) wants to make this board exclusive to the point that potentially meritorious members can't contribute or get valid questions answered.
after all...most noobs eventually grow out of it if they stick around long enough
I agree with many points,
Our forum is cluttered
We need more mods
I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.
Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)
neoobs said:
I agree with many points,
Our forum is cluttered
We need more mods
I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.
Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)
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I believe we should have a troubleshooting subsection, which would automatically filter out all the "I have a brick" type threads from the development forum.
neoobs said:
I agree with many points,
Our forum is cluttered
We need more mods
I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.
Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)
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This was kinda my point. Development should be just that. Direct people looking for how to's or question's to different forums. Instead of just an extra How To, how about a Q n A one also? Then the development forum wont be cluttered and can just be for developers when they are working on stuff.
Hello All:
(As you can see by my post count) I rarely post here. Its not that I don't want to participate in this awesome community; simply, unless I have a question that search (a wonderful tool that all should become familiar with - really, its much faster than waiting for someone to answer your question, specifically when its a re-post as many members often skip these or chastise you for not using some basic search skills) can not answer or I have something valuable to contribute (not an easy task here as there are some very dedicated members whose due diligence is not-notch), I prefer not to clutter the forum with, well, clutter...
That said, I would like to bring to our attention something of an annoyance. Let's call it a double fault of the repeat thread.
Oftentimes (let's face it 99% of the times), when a member searches for an answer to their question, they have to sort through a ton of threads from individuals (let's say these individuals are lazy because...) asking, often basic, questions that can be found with a little diligence on their part. These questions are many times answered by irritated members (whom rightfully believe that these people should be taught to educate themselves) and told to use search, not be lazy, etc.
Here lies the issue. This just adds to the "clutter". Many times, a kind-hearted member will chime in with a link or an actual answer to these "less-than-ambitious" persons and this is wonderful for the next member searching the forums for answers.
However, too many times, the thread ends with that irritated member scolding the "newbie" leading to another dead thread.
I understand why it would be inundating and wouldn't possibly suggest that a moderator delete or maintain these threads.
Instead, how about the OP (original poster) take the responsibility and clean up their own mess!
What I mean by this is that if you post a question and find yourself in the above position, be kind and responsible enough to post the solution (or link to the solution) as the last post of an otherwise useless thread. Consider, as you begin to educate yourself, you'll find yourself frustrated by the same thing.
Basically, consider the next member and yourself in the process.
Maybe consider linking this post (if you find it warrants merit) to the next "lazy" member that just tweaks you and maybe that member will have the courtesy to answering his/her own question (by posting in their own thread the answer or link) and making life easy for everyone, including themselves.
Thanks for taking the time to read this post and I hope you've found it to not be "clutter".
+1
Force people to use the damned search button before post... or limit the posting of threads to people that reply 20 times at least more than 20 words...
I say ban anyone found doing this more than ONE time, period.
jagpoag said:
I say ban anyone found doing this more than ONE time, period.
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A bit extreme. Maybe we can educate instead.
I agree with u tr8. I am actually one of the people who both gives a straight forward answer and uses the search button or Google. But then again I read through tons of threads just for educational purposes. Lol. I have personally answered the same question over and over. Helping takes just as much time as flaming and someday u might ask a question someone smarter than u might think is flammable. Lets keep that in mind.
Sent from my HTC Magic SparksMod using XDA App
Roflmao. I agree with your point as well. Both sides are very valid. All I'm saying is either answering with something productive or passing it by is logical. Flaming is a waist of time. If the didn't take the time to research then flaming them wont make them think they should. That's all. And u can't find a thread on here from me labeled anything like " how do I get to recovery " or anything like that. I agree with u completely.
Sent from my HTC Magic SparksMod using XDA App
ROFL..... I have seen the "use the search tool" so many times, on so many forums, it's not funny.
The problem with inbuilt search tools are these:
1: Spelling. Many users on the internet do not spell correctly. They abbreviate things, simply spell it wrong, or get the position of the letters in various acronyms around the wrong way. This makes searching for a particular word, or group of words, very hit-and-miss, as the particular thread that answers your question, may not show up in search results because either the searcher, or the poster, has spelt stuff incorrectly.
2: Global differences. Irrelevant in this instance and on this website, but a good example to make the point.... in Australia and most UK-background countries, we call it a "nappy" In USA, it's called a "diaper".
We call them "taps"..... USA calls them "faucets".... and others call them something else.
Because forums and the net are global entities, a search function should allow for dialect and language differences.... but this would be almost impossible, so a search function relies on the HOPE that MOST members have spelt things correctly, and MOST members all use the same terminology.
Are YOU going to post a thread with language/dialectural differences, on the off-chance someone from another country calls it something different ? "My toilet (bathroom) tap (faucet) isn't working (operational) - how do I fix (repair) the leak (breach / broken washer / cracked pipe)? "
3: Minimum number of characters. Most search functions have a minimum number of characters required, to perform a search, to weed out the useless "common" words like "at," "I," "on," "the," etc etc. Usually 4 characters minimum. It does not help that most technological things - especially on a forum such as this - are abbreviated or have acronyms that do not provide the minimum number of search characters required. On an automotive forum, for example, how does someone search for "AFM" "VTEC" "EFI" or such-like, if those terms don't reach the minimum? Computer and technology parts are the same.
If a forum has a minimum 4-character search function, how does anyone search for "HTC" or "HD2" ????? There is NO other option for spelling out those terms to something longer..... that's all their names are. They are not shortened versions of a longer word... that's it.
4: Trawling through the results. Oftentimes, when a search DOES result in a page of threads, it can take hours upon hours to read through them all, trying to FIND the answer within those search results. As mentioned above, most-times the responses are simply other users flaming the OP for not searching. Finding the actual answer within those threads could take days.
Users also go off on tangents when posting replies. So a simple thread asking "how do I do A" may have 3 useful replies, then 10 pages of totally irrelevant posts as reply #4 has gone off and described "how I did B instead of A" and the thread has followed suit.
Asking a quick question - and getting a handful of helpful responses - gets the question answered (usually)... in which case, the thread is closed, and doesn't "block up" the internet with more useless posts.
And if someone asks the same question next week, so what. A handful of helpful responses still gets the question answered, and the thread is closed, and the world continues to rotate.
The issue of users not-using / incorrectly-using the Search function is something that has existed since Jesus was pissing in his nappies (diapers, for our American readers).
It is not something that can be forced upon members, until the Search function itself is re-programmed to be fool-proof.
Only then, can you FORCE users to use it first, before being allowed to post a question.
The simple answer is this: If the same question is being repetitively asked over and over again, ask yourselves why?
Obviously, it is because the answer is not readily available in a more obvious position, for members to find.
If the answer is something simple - make it a sticky, so that people can find it more easily.
Create a wiki page or something similar, again so users can find it more easily.
But most of all.... if you aren't prepared to help a user who asks a dumb question, simply move on. As mentioned above, flaming that person achieves nothing.
Most people don't post questions because they are lazy. You have no idea how much time that person has, or hasn't, spent searching for an answer. So you have no right to flame them about asking a repetitive question.
People naturally get defensive when flamed, so their simple "please help me" post becomes a 10-page flame war of people defending their rights and reasons for asking a question, versus those members who feel they shouldn't have asked in the first place.
Ultimately, forums are for helping each other. If you can answer someone's question, or point them in the right direction, then do so. But FFS don't waste everyone's time, and bandwidth, flaming them and blocking up the forums..... which is usually the reason you flame them in the first place (for blocking up the forums)
I second that.
There could be some kind of FAQ-Sheriff on each forum how maintains a sticky thread with those questions everybody asks...
Some interesting/stimulating conversation here. What I fail to understand is why do experienced users waste their time flaming. Why even bother reading a thread when you know you won't afford another user help.
The OP has caused everyone enough frustration without causing multiple pages of 'garbage'; why add to this? Do we really believe that flaming will cause the 'ignorant' on the web to suddenly change their ways?
If anything, you (you meaning the flamer) are doing the rest of the community a courtesy by not flaming because those of us that are diligent and considerate enough of others to actually use search have less work to do in our searches.
I'd like to be clear on something: I'm certainly not targeting the flamer over the lazy bozo, both have faults but the flamer (being wiser, more intelligent, etc.) stands to be assigned a bit more blame (for the clutter) since they really are 'smarter' (or more educated - whichever you prefer) than the OP. Also, those that flame are more likely to read this thread than the lazy masses that just request help without search.
Agreement to the facts!
tr8rjohnk said:
Hello All:
(As you can see by my post count) I rarely post here. Its not that I don't want to participate in this awesome community; simply, unless I have a question that search (a wonderful tool that all should become familiar with - really, its much faster than waiting for someone to answer your question, specifically when its a re-post as many members often skip these or chastise you for not using some basic search skills) can not answer or I have something valuable to contribute (not an easy task here as there are some very dedicated members whose due diligence is not-notch), I prefer not to clutter the forum with, well, clutter...
That said, I would like to bring to our attention something of an annoyance. Let's call it a double fault of the repeat thread.
Oftentimes (let's face it 99% of the times), when a member searches for an answer to their question, they have to sort through a ton of threads from individuals (let's say these individuals are lazy because...) asking, often basic, questions that can be found with a little diligence on their part. These questions are many times answered by irritated members (whom rightfully believe that these people should be taught to educate themselves) and told to use search, not be lazy, etc.
Here lies the issue. This just adds to the "clutter". Many times, a kind-hearted member will chime in with a link or an actual answer to these "less-than-ambitious" persons and this is wonderful for the next member searching the forums for answers.
However, too many times, the thread ends with that irritated member scolding the "newbie" leading to another dead thread.
I understand why it would be inundating and wouldn't possibly suggest that a moderator delete or maintain these threads.
Instead, how about the OP (original poster) take the responsibility and clean up their own mess!
What I mean by this is that if you post a question and find yourself in the above position, be kind and responsible enough to post the solution (or link to the solution) as the last post of an otherwise useless thread. Consider, as you begin to educate yourself, you'll find yourself frustrated by the same thing.
Basically, consider the next member and yourself in the process.
Maybe consider linking this post (if you find it warrants merit) to the next "lazy" member that just tweaks you and maybe that member will have the courtesy to answering his/her own question (by posting in their own thread the answer or link) and making life easy for everyone, including themselves.
Thanks for taking the time to read this post and I hope you've found it to not be "clutter".
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I agree with this whole-heartedly and you have a very valid point... Sometimes searching does take some refining to do and all those amount of results actually look scary to the untrained eye..
Maybe because of this many people just ask their question on a forum ... And after that ..
The senior members get annoyed or irritated or whatever and then they just [email protected] them... Lol..
But its a great topic of discussion that you've made and this thread upon its growth should be made a sticky!
Lordrdx666 said:
I agree with this whole-heartedly and you have a very valid point... Sometimes searching does take some refining to do and all those amount of results actually look scary to the untrained eye..
Maybe because of this many people just ask their question on a forum ... And after that ..
The senior members get annoyed or irritated or whatever and then they just [email protected] them... Lol..
But its a great topic of discussion that you've made and this thread upon its growth should be made a sticky!
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Hey, I appreciate the kudos.
First let me qualify (or disqualify) myself.
I do not own a Viewsonic G Tablet.
I own other Android devices.
I have a strong background in development and programming. I am the Director of Engineering for a small company in Tennessee where we develop adult amusement devices (no, not porn) such as slots, video poker, etc.
I am proficient in many languages, as well as 'nix operating systems.
I have cooked my own roms in the past.
Second...
I have been lurking around the XDA developer forum since back in the Windows Mobile 6 days. I currently have an Android phone and an Android tablet (not a Viewsonic).
Like everyone else here, the prospect of the new build is tasty. Wanting to delve into it myself to see what I can do, It is helpful to me to look (like many others) in the development forums to see what I can see.
However...
Let this serve as a warning to anyone who is not a "Dev" on this forum.
This forum, like many other here at XDA belongs to a handful of "Devs" and you are not one of these "Devs".
Your best bet is to lurk like the rest of us. I don't care if you have a Honeycomb port that will work on this device or a pill that cures cancer. They don't want to see it and you don't want the hassle of being flamed for trying to contribute. They will get to it and you will not beat them to it.
Devs work hard. They do the work for free and they should be revered and respected. But make no mistake, they know it and are not afraid to tell you to STFU and GTFO for merely making a suggestion or comment.
So do all of us a favor, stick to the General forums and don't poke the bear.
I do not plan to respond to this thread and it should probably be closed immediately.
neo4uo said:
Not trying to poke your bear, but even this thread should not be posted in here. This needs to be moved to the general section. This thread defines the word ironic.
Peace \oo/
Sent from my VEGAn-TAB-v1.0.0B5.1 using Tapatalk
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.........lmfao i was about to say the same thing, this thread totally defeat its purpose, the fact is no matter how much you tell people to "search" "post in the proper section" "dont ask for ETAs" and so on theres going to be someone that dont follows the rules, and WTF???? "This forum, like many other here at XDA belongs to a handful of Devs"??? this forum belogs to the community just as much as it does the devs......obviously someone did not read the "state of the site anoucement......tsk......tskk
I am poking the Bear, and here it goes.
If you want us peasants to stop posting in the Development forum of ANY device, simply create a tag for Developers, make it so only "x" amount of posts and a review by the mods, will grant someone this tag. Then you limit access to the Dev forum to tag holders only. Then, when one of the Devs (whos' work is tremendous and I highly resect) has something ready to go, they can post a link or a file in the General section.
That way us 'morons' who are not welcome here can't possibly get in their way with our useless posts and questions. I am tired of the elitist attitude that some have here. Yes a lot of you know more than I do about this stuff, yes I am learning to do this stuff in my SPARE TIME. I am not in college, I do not have a job that allows me to sit in front of a computer all day(don't want it either). When I do have the time to get invloved, or if I find something useful, like many of us, I want to post it. I don't want to be a leach. I can only speak for myself with this. I may not be able to give as much as the devs do, but how can I possibly learn if I dno't ask questions?
The Search feature that people here are so in love with and can't wait to tell us "search is your friend"?
Its almost useless. Its rare that I can find what I'm looking for in the limited amount of time I have to be on here. Its generally easier for me, and many others I suspect, to ask the question and wait for an answer.
Then ask the question. The big complaint is that most don't even try to look or they post "LOOK>>>>>HONEYCOMB ON THE NOOK.....WHY DONT WE HAVE IT YET" in the dev section. Granted the search function isnt great but filling up the forum with the same questions over and over is what makes the search function useless to some. Although I seem to be able to find what I'm looking for most of the time with a little work. The moderators have asked that people not post general questions as new threads in the dev section yet it keeps being done.
its not an elitist attitude about the dev section. Its a request to keep the posts to development only or at least inside the correct thread and not keep asking the same question over and over with a new thread.
I agree with limited access...
Frrrrrrunkis said:
I am poking the Bear, and here it goes.
If you want us peasants to stop posting in the Development forum of ANY device, simply create a tag for Developers, make it so only "x" amount of posts and a review by the mods, will grant someone this tag. Then you limit access to the Dev forum to tag holders only. Then, when one of the Devs (whos' work is tremendous and I highly resect) has something ready to go, they can post a link or a file in the General section.
That way us 'morons' who are not welcome here can't possibly get in their way with our useless posts and questions. I am tired of the elitist attitude that some have here. Yes a lot of you know more than I do about this stuff, yes I am learning to do this stuff in my SPARE TIME. I am not in college, I do not have a job that allows me to sit in front of a computer all day(don't want it either). When I do have the time to get invloved, or if I find something useful, like many of us, I want to post it. I don't want to be a leach. I can only speak for myself with this. I may not be able to give as much as the devs do, but how can I possibly learn if I dno't ask questions?
The Search feature that people here are so in love with and can't wait to tell us "search is your friend"?
Its almost useless. Its rare that I can find what I'm looking for in the limited amount of time I have to be on here. Its generally easier for me, and many others I suspect, to ask the question and wait for an answer.
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I think the idea of tags is a great idea, but once again I don't know how easy this function would be.
thebadfrog said:
Then ask the question.
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Unfortunately, you're changing the rules of the present discussion with that. The OP stated "Devs work hard. They do the work for free and they should be revered and respected. But make no mistake, they know it and are not afraid to tell you to STFU and GTFO for merely making a suggestion or comment." The implication of that is you SHOULDN'T ask the question, you should just STFU.
IMO, the OP is WAY out of line. If the devs don't want comments/suggestions/questions, then they should keep their dev work private and not open it up for public consumption. Yes, the rest of the community wouldn't benefit as much in that case, but there's no excuse for an arrogant attitude like saying STFU for GTFO if someone merely makes a suggestion or comment on something that's been posted for public consumption.
If the devs are simply doing their work and sharing it just to have people fawn all over them for it and expect not to have to deal with the questions/comments/suggestions of the "unwashed masses", well, sorry, the world (and this site/forum, from my understanding) doesn't work that way.
Its the answering "How do I install clockwork?" question that is posted all the time even tho its clearly posted as a sticky. "I've followed the directions exactly and I cant get TnTlite to install".....wrong....you havent or it would have installed. "When are we gonna get an update to X rom?"......"How come we don't have Honeycomb yet?"....."Your rom bricked my device"....."Why won't someone answer my question? that was posted 15 minutes ago.....The devs do this on their own time and for the most part are happy to answer questions but when its clear that someone has no intention of learning for themselves and just want the info handed to them on a silver platter.......well....it gets old
The OP is out of line with his "psa" unless he speaks on behalf of the collective body of said developers.
This is a rhetorical post, I will not be responding again.
Edit: see what I did there with that last line?
atakapa said:
I like turtles
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Collaaaaa!!!!
If we want to grow the G Tab community ( aka continue to receive the excellent support from the Devs) we need to grow the number of G Tab users. If I were considering a new tablet purchase and stopped by here to check out the G Tab, I would not put it high on my list. If new members post in the wrong section or dup a post, it's Ok to send them a "Friendly" reminder, but to blast them like this is an insult to everyone here. Hell they might even be driven to buy a windows mobile 6 product.