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[Q] Help with AT&T bands, or why the rest of the world is more advanced than the U.S.
I need to buy a smartphone before the end of June for use in my new life in mainland China, but have ended up with many questions regarding how useful my phone would be if I returned to the U.S.
So China, being civilized like the rest of the world, uses only the 2100 band GSM for its 3G, at least at China Unicom. So as far as I understand, any phone that gets GSM 2100 gets 3G.
The trouble is what happens if I move back to the U.S.? I want a phone that will last for years. Seems like the only game in town is AT&T unless the feds stop the T-Mobile deal. So my phone has to be 850/1900/2100 to get 3G in the U.S., as I understand it. (At&T isn't exactly forthcoming on this on its site, so this is from this forum and other sources.)
My two candidates are the LG Optimus 2X and the Samsung Nexus S. The 2X has 900/1900/2100 3G bands and decent enough hardware that I'm relatively futureproof gear-wise. The Nexus S has -- at least where I live currently -- 900, 1700 and 2100 3G bands, and Google's stamp of approval means I'm futureproof on the software side.
My confusion comes from what all these numbers mean. Does my phone has to be just one of these bands to get 3G? Two of them? Or is all this a misnomer, and 1900/2100 is in fact its own unique band? Why do I need all these extra bands when most countries have just 2100? What am I missing if I go LG 2X and miss the 850 band?
Does having only two and not all three on my phone mean I would get 3G data only some of the time? Or must I meet all these criteria? Is one upload and one download?
And why is U.S. telecom so screwed up while the rest of the world seems to do just fine? (OK that one may be more of a rant than a question)
There are phones that hit on all the bands, but Motorola is closed software-wise and I don't want that, while Samsung Galaxy S II and iPhone 4 are both too expensive for me.
I'm clearly slow, and not an expert, but if anyone has time to educate me I would much appreciate it.
Hmm, this site suggests AT&T works on either 850 OR 1900. In other words, you need just one or the other on your phone, but not both:
wwwSPACE.cellularmaps.com/att_850_1900.shtml ((sorry I still can't link))
So the LG Optimus 2X would work in U.S.? Pity about Nexus S, because I prefer it for the likely long-term developer support, but life wouldn't be so bad with the Optimus 2X, now would it?
So I have no idea whether this is true, but Google and message boards tell me AT&T has two 3G bands, one 850 and one 1900. They don't need each other to work. Instead, they just duplicate.
Why? I don't know. There may be no logical reason, this being AT&T.
So that suggests in places where AT&T has kept 1900, a phone like the LG Optimus 2X (900/1900/2100) will work fine, and in places where it doesn't it won't. This map suggests wide overlap.
(Still can't post links. Great. Google "cellular maps" "AT&T" "850" and "1900." Thank God the board is safe from links!)
Bear in mind that none of what I've written here fits the definition of "fact." I have no education in this. But somebody's gotta continue the conversation and I'm unafraid to look stupid.
Norlos said:
So I have no idea whether this is true, but Google and message boards tell me AT&T has two 3G bands, one 850 and one 1900. They don't need each other to work. Instead, they just duplicate.
Why? I don't know. There may be no logical reason, this being AT&T.
So that suggests in places where AT&T has kept 1900, a phone like the LG Optimus 2X (900/1900/2100) will work fine, and in places where it doesn't it won't. This map suggests wide overlap.
(Still can't post links. Great. Google "cellular maps" "AT&T" "850" and "1900." Thank God the board is safe from links!)
Bear in mind that none of what I've written here fits the definition of "fact." I have no education in this. But somebody's gotta continue the conversation and I'm unafraid to look stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bands are frequency ranges, so it means that the phone will broadcast/receive on the 850 MHZ range, or 1900 MHZ range. Don't know if this helps, but that is what they are talking about.
Check out PDADB
I think you will find www.pdadb.net to be your new friend. So bottom line is if you want AT&T 3G you need 850/1900, Australia and Canada are the only other places that utilize these bands for their 3G from my knowledge. If you can find a Nexus S that has the North American bands it will do AT&T 3G (it will be the Canadian version). The normal Nexus S state-side is the AWS packed version (AWS = 1700 or T-Mobile 3/4G).
900/2100 are your standard European international 3G spectrum, and well 2100 is pretty much everywhere, even China as you found!
Say you go the AT&T store and ask them for a "World" phone then it is more than likely banded for 2100 in addition to 850/1900!
I hope that helps you!
EDIT: On PDADB.net you will want to look for UMTS850, UMTS1900, UMTS2100. IF it says GSM850, 1900, etc. that means it will do 2G on those bands but not pick up 3G on them!
EDIT 2: Nexus S with AT&T bands can be found here just click on Source 1 at the bottom of the article!
Thanks all! Yes, big help.
Where I live the i9020a hasn't appeared, and why should it? It's needed only in America. Meanwhile, the LG Optimus 2X is the same price here as the Nexus S, which is very very tempting.
Still, I may hold out until the i9020a or the white version of the Nexus S appears, and decide accordingly.
Greetings All,
I am seeking some assistance in deciding on a new unlocked GSM phone for my international travels. I will be deployed into Afghanistan soon and need foremost a phone that will work there with a local SIM. I have tried to do some research on various phones and unless I am misreading things getting a phone to work for all voice channels is easy, it seems on the data side however no one phone seems to cover all the base frequencies, tough perhaps they do not need to.
Even though I will spend most of my time in the Middle East, I will vacation to other international locations. Also, while it does not need to work well in the USA (I have a CDMA phone for that) it would be nice as a backup, or to be usable if I never head back home for long periods.
Here is a list of things I would like in a phone, if they can all be met, great, if not or there is a compelling reason not to, feel free to chime in as well.
1. Android
2. Dual-Core Processor
3. Minimum 768MB Ram (Would prefer 1GB)
4. Hackable
5. Good battery life (At least reasonable)
6. Works in as many places as possible for both voice and data.
So far I have been looking at the Motorola Atrix and the HTC Sensation. It would seem that perhaps there are different versions of these phone supporting different data frequencies, but again, I am just not an expert on this topic.
I just am not on my game when it comes to GSM technology.
Any help, suggestions, recommendations, etc the great and knowledgeable people on this forum would be willing to make would be greatly appreciated.
--PortableTech
Today, most telephones support multiple bands as used in different countries to facilitate roaming. These are typically referred to as multi-band phones. Dual-band phones can cover GSM networks in pairs such as 900 and 1800 MHz frequencies (Europe, Asia, Australia and Brazil) or 850 and 1900 (North America and Brazil).
European tri-band phones typically cover the 900, 1800 and 1900 bands giving good coverage in Europe and allowing limited use in North America, while North American tri-band phones utilize 850, 1800 and 1900 for widespread North American service but limited worldwide use. A "new" addition has been the quad-band phone, also known as a world phone, supporting all four major GSM bands, allowing for global use (excluding non-GSM countries such as Japan).
The Sensation has Quad-band, and supports:
HSPA/WCDMA:
- Europe/Asia/T-Mobile US: 900/AWS/2100 MHz
Quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE:
- 850/900/1800/1900 MHz
The Atrix supports:
GSM/GPRS/EDGE and quad-band HSDPA, whereas the global version of the Atrix offers only tri-band HSDPA, both capable of speeds up to 14.4 Mbps HSDPA and 5.76 HSUPA.
Conclusion:
You can use both Sensation and the Atrix in the Middle East as long as you can get a signal. But don't count on getting full speed when you're surfing the web.
Have a nice trip and be safe!
BazookaAce said:
Today, most telephones support multiple bands as used in different countries to facilitate roaming. These are typically referred to as multi-band phones. Dual-band phones can cover GSM networks in pairs such as 900 and 1800 MHz frequencies (Europe, Asia, Australia and Brazil) or 850 and 1900 (North America and Brazil).
European tri-band phones typically cover the 900, 1800 and 1900 bands giving good coverage in Europe and allowing limited use in North America, while North American tri-band phones utilize 850, 1800 and 1900 for widespread North American service but limited worldwide use. A "new" addition has been the quad-band phone, also known as a world phone, supporting all four major GSM bands, allowing for global use (excluding non-GSM countries such as Japan).
The Sensation has Quad-band, and supports:
HSPA/WCDMA:
- Europe/Asia/T-Mobile US: 900/AWS/2100 MHz
Quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE:
- 850/900/1800/1900 MHz
The Atrix supports:
GSM/GPRS/EDGE and quad-band HSDPA, whereas the global version of the Atrix offers only tri-band HSDPA, both capable of speeds up to 14.4 Mbps HSDPA and 5.76 HSUPA.
Conclusion:
You can use both Sensation and the Atrix in the Middle East as long as you can get a signal. But don't count on getting full speed when you're surfing the web.
Have a nice trip and be safe!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the response, it is appreciated. Are you saying that the Sensation has a little better coverage given it is WCDMA? I still only see 3 frequencies, unless the AWS represents more than one in the list for that section.
If choosing between these two would you prefer one over the other? Also, are there better choices I should perhaps be looking at that I have not considered?
Again, thanks for the help
PortableTech said:
Greetings All,
I am seeking some assistance in deciding on a new unlocked GSM phone for my international travels. I will be deployed into Afghanistan soon and need foremost a phone that will work there with a local SIM. I have tried to do some research on various phones and unless I am misreading things getting a phone to work for all voice channels is easy, it seems on the data side however no one phone seems to cover all the base frequencies, tough perhaps they do not need to.
Even though I will spend most of my time in the Middle East, I will vacation to other international locations. Also, while it does not need to work well in the USA (I have a CDMA phone for that) it would be nice as a backup, or to be usable if I never head back home for long periods.
Here is a list of things I would like in a phone, if they can all be met, great, if not or there is a compelling reason not to, feel free to chime in as well.
1. Android
2. Dual-Core Processor
3. Minimum 768MB Ram (Would prefer 1GB)
4. Hackable
5. Good battery life (At least reasonable)
6. Works in as many places as possible for both voice and data.
So far I have been looking at the Motorola Atrix and the HTC Sensation. It would seem that perhaps there are different versions of these phone supporting different data frequencies, but again, I am just not an expert on this topic.
I just am not on my game when it comes to GSM technology.
Any help, suggestions, recommendations, etc the great and knowledgeable people on this forum would be willing to make would be greatly appreciated.
--PortableTech
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd suggest a cheap unlocked quad band phone like Huawei 8180(110$) or LG GT540 Optimus(130$).
When travelling, depending on the place you are going to,
1) There is a risk of loosing or theft.
2) There is a risk of damage due to natural causes. (Some places are prone to lightning, power surges etc...)
Factors to consider when picking the phone,
1) you should pick resistive touch screen if you intend to travel to a very cool place where you will have to wear gloves or a place with high humidity(rain forests) where capacitive touch phones may malfunction.
2) Make sure it's a quad band phone. Quad-band phones could virtually be used anywhere. Tri-band WCDMA would be advantageous but WCDMA on the frequency commonly used in the country you are travelling to would be better.
In some countries with bad network penetration, you'd be better off picking a satellite telephony. They very low-end specs but they can keep you connected anywhere.
People would be able to make more relevant suggestions if you mention the country you are travelling to.
PortableTech said:
Thank you for the response, it is appreciated. Are you saying that the Sensation has a little better coverage given it is WCDMA? I still only see 3 frequencies, unless the AWS represents more than one in the list for that section.
If choosing between these two would you prefer one over the other? Also, are there better choices I should perhaps be looking at that I have not considered?
Again, thanks for the help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bands you need to worry about is 850/900/1800/1900 MHz.
I don't have time to check myself, but check out google and see which frequencies are the most used in Afghanistan.
But every GSM device should work fine there.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda premium
nibras_reeza said:
I'd suggest a cheap unlocked quad band phone like Huawei 8180(110$) or LG GT540 Optimus(130$).
When travelling, depending on the place you are going to,
1) There is a risk of loosing or theft.
2) There is a risk of damage due to natural causes. (Some places are prone to lightning, power surges etc...)
Factors to consider when picking the phone,
1) you should pick resistive touch screen if you intend to travel to a very cool place where you will have to wear gloves or a place with high humidity(rain forests) where capacitive touch phones may malfunction.
2) Make sure it's a quad band phone. Quad-band phones could virtually be used anywhere. Tri-band WCDMA would be advantageous but WCDMA on the frequency commonly used in the country you are travelling to would be better.
In some countries with bad network penetration, you'd be better off picking a satellite telephony. They very low-end specs but they can keep you connected anywhere.
People would be able to make more relevant suggestions if you mention the country you are travelling to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read again He's going to Afghanistan.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda premium
PortableTech said:
Greetings All,
I will be deployed into Afghanistan soon and need foremost a phone that will work there with a local SIM.
Even though I will spend most of my time in the Middle East, I will vacation to other international locations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bazooka. Read that again. =D
BazookaAce said:
Read again He's going to Afghanistan.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Sensation seems cool. Dual-core processors, and that screen!
Photon maybe? Dk the bands but a idea
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Hi all
I just got this phone for use in Italy, and am now waiting for my unlock code to come through.
Meanwhile, and as the main question, I wonder if it ever will be a way to turn on the WCDMA 900 band that we use here (along with WCDMA 2100), since it's not supported out of the box, being an American phone.
I would like it to be a 900/2100 phone, instead of 850/1900/2100.
I'm sure the phone supports it (being much newer than my current Motorola Defy that's able to do it), it just has to be unlocked somewhere.
Any info is appreciated!
Thank you
thenext1 said:
Hi all
I just got this phone for use in Italy, and am now waiting for my unlock code to come through.
Meanwhile, and as the main question, I wonder if it ever will be a way to turn on the WCDMA 900 band that we use here (along with WCDMA 2100), since it's not supported out of the box, being an American phone.
I would like it to be a 900/2100 phone, instead of 850/1900/2100.
I'm sure the phone supports it (being much newer than my current Motorola Defy that's able to do it), it just has to be unlocked somewhere.
Any info is appreciated!
Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but that is not possible as the hardware does not have those radio antennas in the phone. This is ONLY a GSM/HSDPA+ phone not a WCDMA phone. There is not a way to change that since it is a hardware antenna change.
jimbridgman said:
Sorry, but that is not possible as the hardware does not have those radio antennas in the phone. This is ONLY a GSM/HSDPA+ phone not a WCDMA phone. There is not a way to change that since it is a hardware antenna change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as i know (pretty sure on this), all 3/3.5G is WCDMA. HSDPA(+) is WCDMA. WCDMA is just the name of a RF modulation, and 850, 900, 1900, 2100 are just the bands the protocol can run on.
In fact my question could just be translated to: as these settings are stored in the baseband rom, we need to flash an alternative baseband to enable those, or discover where they are set.
I guess a motorola phone similar enough to the A2 (i.e. same.hardware) should suffice as a "donor" phone for the baseband rom. May be an ipothetic european A2 of the future.
Has a phone like this been found yet?
thenext1 said:
As far as i know (pretty sure on this), all 3/3.5G is WCDMA. HSDPA(+) is WCDMA. WCDMA is just the name of a RF modulation, and 850, 900, 1900, 2100 are just the bands the protocol can run on.
In fact my question could just be translated to: as these settings are stored in the baseband rom, we need to flash an alternative baseband to enable those, or discover where they are set.
I guess a motorola phone similar enough to the A2 (i.e. same.hardware) should suffice as a "donor" phone for the baseband rom. May be an ipothetic european A2 of the future.
Has a phone like this been found yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hardware on A2 does not support this, the antenna is not setup to capture these frequencies. Just because the baseband is in the rom does not mean that you can change the hardware.... Yes technically all 3G boils down to WCDMA or CDMA technology, but there are major operating differences between even the different spectrum in them. The issue you have is that the phone is not going to be able to capture those on the hardware layer. It is similar to trying to get am radio signals on an FM radio, with an FM antenna.
Well I hope you are wrong
I think (hope) motorola has put an universal antenna on the atrix 2, it'd be anti economic to do otherwise.
BTW, 850, 900 the antenna differences surely are minimal.
It sounds more like as a RF chipset limitation on the simultaneous bands used... like three of em. "Tri-band umts".
As with the good old gsm phones marketed as tri- or quad-band, like my v525, the actual bands used were depending on where you lived.
All of this, i hope...
Did you buy an MB865, or an ME865, as they have two totally different antennas. mostly we discuss the MB865 in here.... and I can tell you that there is no way to change the MB865, because it setup that way on purpose, and locked to AT&T's signals via the antenna and wireless chipset, by Motorola. The ME865 might be a better choice I think there are two versions of that one, one is the Chinese version and the other is more international.
ME865 it's for asia only. Motorola phones found over here follow the MB nomenclature. I have got an at&t MB865.
Anyway if a €300 phone (defy) can do that, I don't see why motorola would have chosen to spare on a $ .5 part on a €550 phone (euro price tag estimation), and have to redo a whole new pcb layout if the MB865 ever comes to the old world. Even taking into account the at&t exclusivity. It's anti economic for them.
Btw I don't want to be right at all cost, please don't misunderstand my words. ;-)
Also if you look at pdadb you will find two.models, mb865 and mb865a.
I don't know if they're both real or not, but they are identical specs-wise the only exception being the lack of wcdma900 band on the "a" version.
If such version actually comes to market, i guess a baseband transplantation could be done...
I want to figure this out once and for all.
What services does this phone support on the 850 MHz band?
The big question is whether UMTS/HSPA works. NYC area has amazing 850 band coverage on AT&T.
If I were to put a prepaid AT&T SIM in my phone, set my phone to only operate on the 850 MHz band, and set the proper APNs (necessary for 3G?); would I be able to get data beyond EDGE?
Only one way to find out...
There's no mystery to it if you read through the [GUIDE] Set up Verizon Galaxy S3 as World GSM Phone (confirmed working) thread and the [BOUNTY] ($205 so far) Enable HSPA+ on 1900 MHz / 1700MHz for VZW Galaxy S3 i535 threads completely....
With the radio software verizon has on the phone, the galaxy s3 is quad band GSM (850/900/1800/1900) and single band WCDMA (2100).
We don't know if it has the hardware for WCDMA 850/900/1900 and until now, nobody has successfully flashed a different radio due to the bootloader lock. Keep an eye on the "enable WCDMA 1700/1900" thread for updates.
And just to answer another question that you might have, when my S3 was rooted and set up to work in Germany, I tried both T-Mobile and AT&T sim cards here in town. The problem with the S3 is that even if you try to select a different WCDMA band in the field test menu, the radio firmware will not allow you to change it from 2100. So in an area with T-Mobile PCS (1900) and AT&T PCS/CELLULAR (1900/850) WCDMA, each test I tried only ran on EDGE.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Wow... That really sucks.
So, there's literally no way to get 3G outside of Verizon aside from MetroPCS EVDO?
LLStarks said:
Wow... That really sucks.
So, there's literally no way to get 3G outside of Verizon aside from MetroPCS EVDO?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The first step is to experiment with different radio files, as one user in the 1700/1900 thread wants to do, but we need to get the secure-boot/bootloader unlocked so those files can be written.
Phones like the Rezound had the hardware for Quad-band WCDMA (3g), but took a radio file flash to make it work. The reason there is a bounty is because we -think- the Verizon S3 has the hardware, it will just take some work to get the software on the phone to talk to that hardware.
I know. I've been following the thread.
Was a little unsure of the details regarding frequencies.
As far as I understand, they're at a dead end. They need JTAG/UART to continue without worrying about bricks.
LLStarks said:
I know. I've been following the thread.
Was a little unsure of the details regarding frequencies.
As far as I understand, they're at a dead end. They need JTAG/UART to continue without worrying about bricks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, and sadly, I lack the skills and the bounty probably isn't enough to attract a dev with JTAG and a phone to fiddle with to solve our issue
Verizon cdma is ran by nortel dual urban base stations the frequencies are 810-910 and 1840-2000mhz. The LTE is 690-760mhz 1x means that your on 850. 3g means your on 1900 or 850 depending on how far away from the site you are, and 4g means your on LTE. The LTE base station is ericsson but speeds will vary depending on whether or not the site is on fiber or T1 transport. Normally they keep the pre pay customers on the nortel dual urban... Oh by the way we are starting to decommission the lucent cdma on metro pcs sites and convert them to t-mobile GSM but luckily metro uses ericsson for LTE too so there's hope.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
LOL I'm an idiot, was thinking HTC ONE when I said one hd...
Found a really good deal ($170) on a bnib razr hd from verizon with a bad esn on ebay. Didnt really have the time to fully research it before the auction ended so I just took the chance and placed the order.
Did some searching after the fact and have found some really conflicting information. I know the phone would be pretty much useless in the states, but I'm unsure of its usability in Canada? I've herd they would work fine in asia and india so I'm basically curious if anyone knows the extent of how far verizon shares its blocked phone information? Does it extend to Canada?
I've herd on the states you need to have your phone activated onto a network? In Canada we just throw in our sim card and are good to go. Is this a different technology (CDMA vs GSM?). If so assuming the Activation portion of the phone is blocked could the sim card part of it still be open theoretically?
Assuming its possible to work with the bad esn does anyone know if I could use LTE on Bell/virgin?
According to bell it uses LTE AWS 1700mhz and LTE 700mhz and HSPA 850mhz and 1900mhz
According to gsm arena the xt926 uses:
HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1900 / 2100
4G Network LTE 700 MHz Class 13
Should be fully compatible no? I cant find any information on what class bell uses for their LTE, nor do I know if the class affects anything?
mikeinaus said:
LOL I'm an idiot, was thinking HTC ONE when I said one hd...
Found a really good deal ($170) on a bnib razr hd from verizon with a bad esn on ebay. Didnt really have the time to fully research it before the auction ended so I just took the chance and placed the order.
Did some searching after the fact and have found some really conflicting information. I know the phone would be pretty much useless in the states, but I'm unsure of its usability in Canada? I've herd they would work fine in asia and india so I'm basically curious if anyone knows the extent of how far verizon shares its blocked phone information? Does it extend to Canada?
I've herd on the states you need to have your phone activated onto a network? In Canada we just throw in our sim card and are good to go. Is this a different technology (CDMA vs GSM?). If so assuming the Activation portion of the phone is blocked could the sim card part of it still be open theoretically?
Assuming its possible to work with the bad esn does anyone know if I could use LTE on Bell/virgin?
According to bell it uses LTE AWS 1700mhz and LTE 700mhz and HSPA 850mhz and 1900mhz
According to gsm arena the xt926 uses:
HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1900 / 2100
4G Network LTE 700 MHz Class 13
Should be fully compatible no? I cant find any information on what class bell uses for their LTE, nor do I know if the class affects anything?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can unlock it for gsm carriers in the us and its already unlocked for international use. I know with att u get h+ witch is good enough for me on straight talk. I average about 6mps.
Got the phone on the weekend. It works fine on bell/ virgin except I can't connect to lte. Does anyone know of it's possible to unlock lte? According to gsm area the phone should be compatible with lte 700mhz which is what bell uses... Will that radio com thing you guys use to unlock it for us carriers help?