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Looking for small PDA phone

I currently have an O2 XDA EXEC, and i love it. The only problem with it, is that its a bit on the large side. This is a bit of a problem sometimes and im looking for an alternative, but not a phone to replace it based on functionality.
I recently saw the SPV E650 and rly liked it, but found that it cant yet be unlocked so im looking for something similar in size, maybe a bit bigger than that. WM5 is a must and must have wifi/bluetooth and possible full qwerty keyboard.
I dont ask much but im sure people here would know the kinda thing im looking for and could help me out.
Thanks in advanced.

Take a look a the Touch.
The processor is a bit on the slow side (OMAP 200MHz), but WM 6, WiFi, BT and its the smallest PDA phone I've seen so far.

The HTC Wings
You can compare the dimentions here
There's also the Treo 500v announced. It doesn't have Wi-Fi, but it has keyboard, WM6 and a touch screen.

HTC TOUCH is quite Sleek

kaotix said:
I currently have an O2 XDA EXEC, and i love it. The only problem with it, is that its a bit on the large side. This is a bit of a problem sometimes and im looking for an alternative, but not a phone to replace it based on functionality.
I recently saw the SPV E650 and rly liked it, but found that it cant yet be unlocked so im looking for something similar in size, maybe a bit bigger than that. WM5 is a must and must have wifi/bluetooth and possible full qwerty keyboard.
I dont ask much but im sure people here would know the kinda thing im looking for and could help me out.
Thanks in advanced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have jasjar also. i still love its functionalities but i thought a smaller (and lighter one) when going to the shopping centres etc, thus i bought touch which is less powerful but very handy. recommend the same to you.

As mentioned the Touch is a really nice phone. It's amazingly small and works well. If you're looking for a high performance device you might want to consider another one but for most things it works very well.
I got it because it was/is probably the smallest smartphone on the market. I wanted a good phone capable of keeping appointments etc. better than a 'normal' phone would do so I'm not that demanding. It is actually lighter than my previous SE k750i, just a bit wider, this means its size is really small. Think MDA compact and slice it in half. I'm very happy with it but there are some downsides to it as well. Wifi reception is not really strong and it lacks 3G, apart from the lack of speed for some it's a good phone with good value.

Personally, I like the Excalibur. It's a tad slow, with only a 200 MHz CPU, 64 MB of RAM, and EDGE, and slightly limited due to its lack of touch screen, but I love the little thing. that's just my opinion, but it's worth considering, if price is a big issue.

I strongly recommend the Touch.
I got my Touch only 3 weeks ago after my TyTn went broke due to screen problem. Believe me I do not find a very significant difference in speed of the Touch Vs the TyTn though the processor of the Touch is almost half the clock speed. But in real life no noticable difference.
The only area where the touch falls short is the available free ROM and RAM. I am more concerned with the RAM. With the same programs plugins installed on the Touch as I had on the TyTn I have only 10 Megs of free RAM after a soft reset. This used to be close to 24 Megs on the TyTn. With this RAM I cannot open some large websites specially java based through Opera 8.65 for example my Banks on-line website. I could easily have done so on the TyTn.
So to conclude if you are looking for a small, reliable, well built, good looking phone go for the Touch but if you are a power user and your style of usage depends upon a lot of free RAM you may find this a bit disappointing.
Personally I will go for the TyTn II soon

Eten X800 and M800

Hi people...
i was wondering if any one in here own any of those phones and had any experience with them... I know they are not HTC but i would like to hear someone opinion about it, performance and know problems since they are a bit recent... Any help?.... Thanks...

bandit2xx said:
Hi people...
i was wondering if any one in here own any of those phones and had any experience with them... I know they are not HTC but i would like to hear someone opinion about it, performance and know problems since they are a bit recent... Any help?.... Thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the x800. It is a good phone as long as you make sure you keep it clean. It only has, like many other phones, 64mb of RAM. I love the screen and with the wm6.1 ROM that has been created it is a very smooth phone.
Some say that he camera is bad but I have had no problems with it. There is also complaints about the 3G not working to its full potential. I cannot confirm this as I do not use the internet on my phone.
It is a sleek and quick phone. It is very light and has a beautiful screen.

Unless Eten learns to build 128 MB in their high end phones I am not even going to consider those

do most of the commonly used apps work ok with the vga screen such as opera mini, tom tom etc is use theese mainly

I have been using this phone for 3 months now and what can I say, it's a superb phone.
Screen is real nice and sharp, though the white is a bit weak versus a x500, but just slightly.
It's fast enough too, not as fast as qVGA but the buildup is pretty fast and you hardly ever see noticable delays.
The 3G /Hdspa speeds have no problems in Europe, it's just the States because of theit cell towers, the hardware used there isn't 100% compactible, more phones suffor from that and yes I got a source but not at hand.
The camera is real bad, real hard to make decent pics with it but if you shoot at the highest resolution and crop them afterwards you still have a very decent pic, I use it for blogging and stuff.
The ram is another story, 64 mb is really the only major downside, you can set the pagepool to 4mb which solves all problems, but with the currenst firmware there's still some memory leaks, like windows live, navigation, oxios only recovers about half.
Probably it gets fixed in the next official rom as 6.1 has better control over the memory.
Another probably slight downside only few care about are cover/housing cracks, on the back near the middle there are a few, I solved it with a bit of paper between the batery cover and the battery.
About all programs do work well, ironically most of the htc apps don't run or don't run well.
Another thing not all today plugins seem to be vga compatible but the most popular ones are.
Future wise it's ok too, you got the vga screen, hdspa, about everything that can be put into a phone (I'm not taking a mobile tv receiver from the v900 into acount), even wlan which htc recently disabled in most of their pda's, the only thing you don't have is dedicated 3D hardware, but it's just a question of do you need that and when do we see usefull apps for it, personally I don't think for quite some time.
The last downside is probably the e-ten support, no they release patches equally fast, maybe faster than HTC, roms too, but ig you send the phone to them communication can be a bit of a problem, they got to work on that.
There are few custom roms but lately as e-ten grew more and more populair more people are working on it and even wm6.1 has been ported already.
Overall if you ask me this phone is better than htc currently has to offer, they have no candybar pda with a high resolution screen, just the athena and universal which aren't real competitors.
I would personally recommend e-ten to anyone that's fed up with htc, been using pda's for about 10 years now and the last year I've had a x500 and now an e-ten x800, and I don't regret switching over, no htc for me for the next year/twi years at least.

i agree
I perfectly agree with iruja, the eten pda are great. I have a X500+ with vga screen and i love it, and with the sirf star III receiver it's a perfect navigator (not assisted-gps like htc kaiser), it's more sensible and quickly to connet than my car navigator (more).
Mark

well im torn between an x800 and a touch cruise, is the 64mb ram really all that bad, my tytn has 64mb and runs fine

beermonster65 said:
well im torn between an x800 and a touch cruise, is the 64mb ram really all that bad, my tytn has 64mb and runs fine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have any problems with the 64 meg of RAM. I have tried 4 different versions of GPS software out there and all of them work fine. I just make sure I recover my memory every now and then.
I think the memory issue people have is kind of funny. If you use a M$ product then get used to it. Yes there seems to be memory leaks with the Eten ROMs so far but I am using the wm6.1 ROM that was cooked and it seem to be better.
I think the X800 is a great phone and PDA.

64mb is fine, because of the vga resolution it uses some more, but still it's sufficient.
It seems the leaks are mainly the core, and a few programs.
It has been worse, the first rom was a disaster, but the 402 version is pretty stable, and has a lot less memory leaks.
I wouldn't worry about them to much, but if you're a hardcore user you may encounter them sometime, but remember, the worst thing that could happen to you is just a softreset, that's all, which I haven't needed in 3 months due to memory problems.

I second that
iruja said:
I have been using this phone for 3 months now and what can I say, it's a superb phone.
Screen is real nice and sharp, though the white is a bit weak versus a x500, but just slightly.
It's fast enough too, not as fast as qVGA but the buildup is pretty fast and you hardly ever see noticable delays.
The 3G /Hdspa speeds have no problems in Europe, it's just the States because of theit cell towers, the hardware used there isn't 100% compactible, more phones suffor from that and yes I got a source but not at hand.
The camera is real bad, real hard to make decent pics with it but if you shoot at the highest resolution and crop them afterwards you still have a very decent pic, I use it for blogging and stuff.
The ram is another story, 64 mb is really the only major downside, you can set the pagepool to 4mb which solves all problems, but with the currenst firmware there's still some memory leaks, like windows live, navigation, oxios only recovers about half.
Probably it gets fixed in the next official rom as 6.1 has better control over the memory.
Another probably slight downside only few care about are cover/housing cracks, on the back near the middle there are a few, I solved it with a bit of paper between the batery cover and the battery.
About all programs do work well, ironically most of the htc apps don't run or don't run well.
Another thing not all today plugins seem to be vga compatible but the most popular ones are.
Future wise it's ok too, you got the vga screen, hdspa, about everything that can be put into a phone (I'm not taking a mobile tv receiver from the v900 into acount), even wlan which htc recently disabled in most of their pda's, the only thing you don't have is dedicated 3D hardware, but it's just a question of do you need that and when do we see usefull apps for it, personally I don't think for quite some time.
The last downside is probably the e-ten support, no they release patches equally fast, maybe faster than HTC, roms too, but ig you send the phone to them communication can be a bit of a problem, they got to work on that.
There are few custom roms but lately as e-ten grew more and more populair more people are working on it and even wm6.1 has been ported already.
Overall if you ask me this phone is better than htc currently has to offer, they have no candybar pda with a high resolution screen, just the athena and universal which aren't real competitors.
I would personally recommend e-ten to anyone that's fed up with htc, been using pda's for about 10 years now and the last year I've had a x500 and now an e-ten x800, and I don't regret switching over, no htc for me for the next year/twi years at least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

need advice choosing a wm touch-screen phone

Hi,
Ive decided to go with Wm over UIQ3/S60 due to more software.
Ive never had a ppc, but i expect to do some tinkering in terms of software and maybe custom rom's
Turns out that choosing the os was the easy part.
Im now faced with hardware dilemmas. Sorry if this is long, but i dont want to throw away 400$ or more on a phone that may not meet my expectations
1. The devices i looked at range from 200mhz omap to about 500mhz from various chip makers. How noticeable is the cpu speed if a phone has the same ram?
2. Next is Ram, how important is it to have 128 megs??
3. last is Rom, how useful is this- cant u just dump progs to the expandable memory card. performance wise how diff are progs installed on the rom verses the expandable memory?
phones i am considering are gsm: htc touch, touch cruise, SE x1, asus p527/p750, lg ks20, glofiish x650/x600, toshiba g810, gsmart i3xx?, samsung i780. How crippling is the htc driver problem?
a) i kinda want my phone to have some metal on the case- will it get less scratches?
b) how useful are phones with just direction and 2 buttons-send/end call? how useful is a 9# keypad in real buttons? seems redundant with soft key option
c) Am i better off with the cheaper options to get used to wm rather the go for a more luxury option?
I plan to keep the phone for about 3 years.
also how useful is the wifi versus data plan( i am in Ontario Canada)?
i plan to use it to call long distance in Canada via Voip, as i am around wifi hot spots often.
Thank you to all who give me some input.

I'll chime in where I can:
2. Very important. I find that 64 is not enough and 128 is too much. If they made 96MB RAM it would be perfect. But noone does that I know of. Better to have too much than too little. Battery life will suffer a little (less power used for less memory).
3. It's pretty important. I have 256 MB ROM and after everything I only have 128 free. If you only had 128 to begin with, who knows how much you'd be left with? Some apps need to be installed in ROM and not Storage Card. Get 256 if you can.
b) I never really use any buttons other than on/off and talk/end. I have a hardware button setup for the today screen, which helps me because I use it alot.
Hope that helps!

That clears it up thank you wildcard.
Ths could eliminate some phones from my list.
Could anyone clear up processor speed for me, does it really make a diff given enough ram?
Also out of the phones I mentioned, is there a clear choice that satisfy me- ignoring the phones not yet released( x1, g810)?
Is there an gsm htc touch clone from o2 or whoever that mimics the CDMA version ( 400mhz, 128 ram)?

Don't take this as entirely factual but:
-64mb RAM is good, but I could have used 128mb. Battery life is affected, but I don't know how much.
-CPU probably has some effect, but 400mhz is standard and fine. 200mhz is probably much slower.
-There is no 400mhz/128MB RAM Touch clone for GSM
-Apps run faster from ROM. With only system utilities on my device and with the ROM made spring clean, I could not have more than 32 out of 49MB of free RAM left. 64 is really small, 128 is a minimum if you don't want to count on your card or keep extra fonts/voice commands/media.
-You MUST have Wi-Fi. What kind of sane Canadian would rely on data... probably a filthy rich one! Rogers is about to bring affordable unlimited data soon tho, but they say it will be for "a selected list of phones" which will probably exclude the very phones that need it IMO. iPhone whores...
-If you're not sure about Windows Mobile, try an emulator (found on microsoft website using google) for developers and surf around. It's far from what you can actually do with your device but it helps you see what it's all about.
You might want to try PalmOS if Wi-Fi and web browsing is not a necessity. I changed to WM and would never switch back, but some did the opposite and loved it.
Suggestion:
-TyTN / TyTN II have plenty of buttons+hardware keyboard, great for playing video game ROMs and games in general, but makes the device much thicker. You will love having lots of hardware buttons (one for flashlight, another for calendar then another for...)
-HTC Touch. It must be slower, but if you remove web browsing, heavy customization and the like, it will be a nice pocketable device. It's so damn cute compared to my fat TyTN (which I love). It only lacks more buttons and some power under the hood.

Thanks again.
Rogers has some sort of Rogers Vision Plan that includes data for 7$ still dont know much about it, its all new. I'd rather not pay anything extra LOL.
www.tryphone.com has a preview of palm os, but that doesnt interest me.
I couldnt figure out the windows mobile simulation from microsoft, but i did use a htc briefly in a store.
Anyways from whats been posted:
Avoid 200 mhz
Avoid anything less then 128 ram
Avoid anything less then 256 rom
This basically leaves HTC, Samsung, toshiba, Hp 610 and upcoming expensive X1.
---
From what i understand Rom flashing is basically reinstalling WM and bundling less progs with it? Am I correct?
Could any one point me into the direction of more info on ROM flashing?
How hard is it to make a custom Rom from scratch in case I go with a non HTC phone i.e. Samsung/ Eten / Asus .. i gather the other communities dont have it as rich as this one.

Avoid LG KS20 !
Hello andrey08,
There is one thing I can tell : do not buy a LG KS20 !. It is plagued by totally flawed display drivers : many GAPI apps do not work, and most DirectDraw ones do not.
Moreover, LG stripped from the ROM QTV support, so you will not have hardware accelerated video playing.
There is also a problem with the microphone while phoning, which stops functionning while switching between GSM and 3G bands.
Finally, their customer support is even worst than HTC's since they always pretend not being aware of these problems and do not plan to release a new ROM to correct anything when asked (since there is no problem according to them...).
I'm the poor owner of this piece of crap, and can not even resell it since it would be scam (you can't not even rely on it to phone !).
You can search the internet to confirm what I say : european forums are full of messages of angry customers. Our problem is that we can not have class actions in europe as in the US, and it is not an easy task to individually sue vodaphone or LG.
Lastly, concerning HTC recent products : if you read this forum, you will find that recent MSM7xxx HTC products are plagued by a very slow display. Compatibility and applications support seems OK though.

what about screen type
i know VGA is 4 times the display ability of QVGA, however whatsthe draw back of VGA
do all programs run on both VGA/Qvga screens??
whats the issue with video play back??

andrey08 said:
what about screen type
i know VGA is 4 times the display ability of QVGA, however whatsthe draw back of VGA
do all programs run on both VGA/Qvga screens??
whats the issue with video play back??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would go for a VGA phone every time, but the advantages are relatively subtle.
Most QVGA programs will work on VGA, either because they are natively supported, or they use pixel-doubling.
You won't notice much of a difference for most of the built-in programs apart from smoother fonts and cleaner icons. This can be hacked using something like realVGA, but I find the icons get too small for practical benefit, although YMMV.
VGA, however, definitely comes into its own when you are web-browsing or using the remote desktop client, because the increased resolution means that you can get a near-desktop experience.
The disadvantage is that VGA displays theoretically sap more battery, although I haven't found this to be a problem in practice. Video playback is also more dependent on what hardware you have on the device and whether there is any acceleration.

ZSX said:
I would go for a VGA phone every time, but the advantages are relatively subtle.
Most QVGA programs will work on VGA, either because they are natively supported, or they use pixel-doubling.
You won't notice much of a difference for most of the built-in programs apart from smoother fonts and cleaner icons. This can be hacked using something like realVGA, but I find the icons get too small for practical benefit, although YMMV.
VGA, however, definitely comes into its own when you are web-browsing or using the remote desktop client, because the increased resolution means that you can get a near-desktop experience.
The disadvantage is that VGA displays theoretically sap more battery, although I haven't found this to be a problem in practice. Video playback is also more dependent on what hardware you have on the device and whether there is any acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also make sure you read my (W)VGA-related articles & reviews - from MWC, I've posted a LOT on the brand new / forthcoming VGA devices (for example, the i-mate 9502, the x7510 etc)

andrey08 said:
Hi,
Ive decided to go with Wm over UIQ3/S60 due to more software.
Ive never had a ppc, but i expect to do some tinkering in terms of software and maybe custom rom's
Turns out that choosing the os was the easy part.
Im now faced with hardware dilemmas. Sorry if this is long, but i dont want to throw away 400$ or more on a phone that may not meet my expectations
1. The devices i looked at range from 200mhz omap to about 500mhz from various chip makers. How noticeable is the cpu speed if a phone has the same ram?
2. Next is Ram, how important is it to have 128 megs??
3. last is Rom, how useful is this- cant u just dump progs to the expandable memory card. performance wise how diff are progs installed on the rom verses the expandable memory?
phones i am considering are gsm: htc touch, touch cruise, SE x1, asus p527/p750, lg ks20, glofiish x650/x600, toshiba g810, gsmart i3xx?, samsung i780. How crippling is the htc driver problem?
a) i kinda want my phone to have some metal on the case- will it get less scratches?
b) how useful are phones with just direction and 2 buttons-send/end call? how useful is a 9# keypad in real buttons? seems redundant with soft key option
c) Am i better off with the cheaper options to get used to wm rather the go for a more luxury option?
I plan to keep the phone for about 3 years.
also how useful is the wifi versus data plan( i am in Ontario Canada)?
i plan to use it to call long distance in Canada via Voip, as i am around wifi hot spots often.
Thank you to all who give me some input.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I heartily recommend the MWC-based handset reviews I've posted in the last week into this very forum (i-mate, HP, Samsung etc)

Thanks i'll chekc it out.
im considering either an Eten x650 or MWg Atom V
reviews and such look good for both

Considering an X7510 and looking for input...

So my HTC Wizard is getting a little old. And it's poor old CPU isn't standing up to Windows Mobile 6 ROM's very well. And it doesn't support anyhting past EDGE. And I'm thinking it's time for an upgrade. And my sweet BT SouthWing headset sucks on my HTC as soon as I do more than one thing. At the same time, my camera is busted. My girlfriend has a 6 megapixel camera we use for anything important, but I want a decent camera that's always on me.
I think I see a chance to combine some electronics. I'm looking for a beasty WM 6 based PDA. The current PDA I'm most interested in is the HTC Advantage X7510.
http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=474
GSM w / solid band support
3.1 MP camera w / flash
BT 2.0
624 Mhz CPU AND ATI gfx chip (<3 cell phone emulators)
16 gig internal flash for my tunes
detachable keyboard
FULL QWERTY KEYBOARD = WIN
Surprisingly sexy for a powerful PDA with a keyboard
This looks like the best one I've found overall. I've heard that HTC has been pretty lousy on implementing the ATI GFX chips, but as far as I can tell that's only on the TyTn II's. It's a little more than I want to spend on a phone, but if it gets the camera in there too then it's sold.
I'm pretty much sold on this guy, only holdup is the cost. I really haven't seen anything that can compete with it, although I found a lot of new companies today poking about. Anybody know of any brands I should look at, or have anything negative to say about this guy?

fatheadpi said:
So my HTC Wizard is getting a little old. And it's poor old CPU isn't standing up to Windows Mobile 6 ROM's very well. And it doesn't support anyhting past EDGE. And I'm thinking it's time for an upgrade. And my sweet BT SouthWing headset sucks on my HTC as soon as I do more than one thing. At the same time, my camera is busted. My girlfriend has a 6 megapixel camera we use for anything important, but I want a decent camera that's always on me.
I think I see a chance to combine some electronics. I'm looking for a beasty WM 6 based PDA. The current PDA I'm most interested in is the HTC Advantage X7510.
http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=474
GSM w / solid band support
3.1 MP camera w / flash
BT 2.0
624 Mhz CPU AND ATI gfx chip (<3 cell phone emulators)
16 gig internal flash for my tunes
detachable keyboard
FULL QWERTY KEYBOARD = WIN
Surprisingly sexy for a powerful PDA with a keyboard
This looks like the best one I've found overall. I've heard that HTC has been pretty lousy on implementing the ATI GFX chips, but as far as I can tell that's only on the TyTn II's. It's a little more than I want to spend on a phone, but if it gets the camera in there too then it's sold.
I'm pretty much sold on this guy, only holdup is the cost. I really haven't seen anything that can compete with it, although I found a lot of new companies today poking about. Anybody know of any brands I should look at, or have anything negative to say about this guy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well if you really want the x7510 then you should buy an x7500 and put ap4 on there. than its like having the best of both worlds plus you get all the buttons that you dont get with the 7510

7510 is a good choice only if you intend to use it notebook style. If you use it tablet style, then 7500 or 7501 are better. 7510 does not have the a few of the hardware buttons that the older models have, and this is extremely limiting for table style users. Many users find it more convenient, more portable, and easier when using it table style.
BTW, 7500 and 7501 are lighter and cheaper too. The only drawback is the microdrive instead of SSD, but not a serious drawback. Capacity itself is not an issue for most of us, I believe. I only use about 1 GB out of the 8GB with all my programs installed there. All my large consuming files are on microSDHC, which can be swapped in and out at will so there is no practical limit on the effective capacity. Microdrive is a lot faster than microSDHC, although it consumes more power.

The answer is also in the new product cathegories from HTC marketing department ( www.htc.com ) :
They have :
TOUCH phones (From TOUCH to DIAMOND)
PDA phones (From P3300 to TyTN II)
Smartphones (From S310 to S730)
Mobile Computers (Advantage>Shift)
The strategy seems clear: WHAT DO YOU ARE LOOKING FOR ? :
Trendy and WOW effect PDA PHONE? (Play device with phone?) TOUCH product Line
A Powerfull Companion in your PHONE? (Biz device with phone?) PDA Phones Product Line
Lightweight but powerfull PHONE? (Phone for yor Digital Lifestyle?) Smartphones product line
Mobile computing (Mobile PC always on with SOME phone capabilities?) Mobile Computers product line
I agree with you we would like to have them ALL in a single device but....
I have PDA, SMartphone and Mobile computer, and I fully agree with this scenario. A clear idea (or a good help) and you will be really happy of the chosen device. Chose the wrong category for your purpose and you will sell it in few weeks (losing money )
HTC is out from a dark age now, time to buy stock quotes IMHO!

I'd go for an X7500 unless you can get a 7510 susidised. I use about 6Gb of my Microdrive and about 3Gb on my card but you can always expand with bigger cards.
Good luck!
[Edit]Just seen http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=391485 - might be of interest?[/Edit]

Interesting comments, really appreciate the feedback. So, a few things.
1. I haven't really found a good comparison or general video yet of any of the advantage models. I'll keep the keyboard difference in mind. As for the keyboard usage, how is it for texting? I've been pretty happy with the keyboard on my Wizard, but I'm open to something new. I just refuse to go back to not having a QWERTY keyboard. I'd buy the Diamond, but HTC doesn't get how awesome QWERTY texting is appearantly.
2. Looking at the Advantage, I don't see any buttons on it that would be especially good for gaming, especially anything like the pad on a Wizard / TyTn II. Am I missing something, or can I expect to have my PocketNesterness hampered by an Advantage?
3. Thanks for the info on the 7500/1 vs 7510. Looking at the specs page, I noticed the 7500 lists two cameras while the 7501 only has one. Is this the case? I'd just be giving up the VGA camera for voice calls, which I've never used anyways, but I guess it could be nice if I get to an area with better than EDGE service. Also, is the X7510's camera much / any better?
4. I've done a good bit of flashing / light bit of cooking with my Wizard. About how much harder is an advantage to reflash?
5. 8 gigs would be a considerable upgrade for me, I've been getting by on a 4 gig MiniSD that my Wizard only picks up about 3.7 gig of. Assuming I used a gig internally for pics, GPS, etc, I'd still have twice the capacity on HD alone vs my card.
Glad to get some input, got ignored at HowardForums.

Hmm... actually, saw some better pics of the Advantage. There is clearly no "D-Pad" like the PDA-style phones get. LAME.
Back to the drawing board. Kaiser's in the lead, AT&T owes me a discount phone since I bought my own hardware to the table. Too bad it doesn't have a flash.
http://www.imate.com/support/specs/SpecSheet_9502.pdf
Ooooooh... Do Want!

fatheadpi said:
Interesting comments, really appreciate the feedback. So, a few things.
1. ... how is it for texting? ...
2. ... can I expect to have my PocketNesterness hampered by an Advantage?
3. ... the 7500 lists two cameras while the 7501 only has one. Is this the case? Also, is the X7510's camera much / any better?...
4. ...About how much harder is an advantage to reflash?...
5. ...8 gigs ...
....got ignored at HowardForums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We play soccer here, 2-1 is the score, and the winners are ...HERMES-KAISER!
1) ATHENA's kb haven't any backlight, hard to use without a stable surface. Big screen means BIG on screen Kb too, but for texting ATHENA Kb isn't really good in standing situation, in the car, on the bus.... WORST comparing it with the HERMES or KAISER
2) Many games aren't usable in a VGA device. I don't know about emulators but less buttons mean less control! WORST comparing it with the HERMES or KAISER
3) Yes, it is. No, don't.
4) Just the same complexity and risks as Kaiser or Hermes
5) Yes, but are built IN. I prefer to have DATA on SD, to manage with the PC utilities, to share data with friends... but, yes BETTER than HERMES or KAISER
HOFO?
Believe me: for a "texter" and "gamer" ATHENA is a nightmare!

Yeah, that's what I'm seeing so far. I might settle on a Kaiser, looks like those are pretty well hacked, and I can get one for like $100 refurb'd through AT&T. I'm gonna see if I can scrounge up a deal on that I-Mate tho, no flash on the camera has repeatedly pissed me off with my Wizard.
On a different note, how is WM6 on a 400 Mhz processor? I'm using a Wizard OC'd to 216Mhz on a custom WM6 rom, and alot of stuff is SLOOOOW. Granted, even a Kaiser would more than double my phone power, but just curious.

Hey guys, I think it's getting obvious the Athena isn't for me. I'm gonna head over to the Kaiser forum and see what I can see. Thanks for the help.

Considering Orbit 2...a few questions

I currently have a Blue Angel and I'm considering upgrading to an Orbit 2.
How would the performance compare between the 2? They're both 400MHz, but I just wondered how the Qualcomm is compared to the XScale?
Apart from the video driver issue, are there any other problems with it? I'd mainly be usig it for a phone, and running Tomtom.
Thanks!

Seriously... Don't bother!

LOL...it's that bad?
Can you explain why?

You will miss your qwerty. I don't know your Blue Angel, But my TC (i think all PocketPCs) has a delay when somebody calls you. Your phone will ring/vibrate after the one who calls you hears the first ring. So if somebody just gives you a call with one ring (bip) you won't hear it! Is it the same in your case, or mine is special? Maybe somebody else with TC can confirm/infirm this...

Yea, mine sort of have that sort of dealy.
I don't use my QWERTY keyboard anyway so that's not a problem.

the_scotsman said:
LOL...it's that bad?
Can you explain why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just everything about it...
The build quality is terrible. Feels like a new hobbyist threw it together in 5 mins.
It seriously underperforms compared to my Old SE P990i and older XDA's
The modifications o2 have made to the software are rubbish.
I'm miffed I didn't hold out for the SE X1i

^ In your opinion, yes its not perfect, the screen is less than ideal but the build quality is great I think. Much better than my old SE P series phone which used to creak whenever squeezed etc and the flush screen is better than orbit 1
But I would hold out for the Diamond

I want the built in GPS, and the Diamond prices ae too much for what it is...
Any other decent HTCs with built in GPS?

the_scotsman said:
I currently have a Blue Angel and I'm considering upgrading to an Orbit 2.
How would the performance compare between the 2? They're both 400MHz, but I just wondered how the Qualcomm is compared to the XScale?
Apart from the video driver issue, are there any other problems with it? I'd mainly be usig it for a phone, and running Tomtom.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've just switched from a Hermes/Tytn to the Orbit2. HardSPL'd it and installed the WM6.1 that's been floating about here and installed TomTom.
Losing the keyboard is a bit annoying (on screen is usable, but nowhere near as good) - but I realized I very rarely typed anything and smaller sized massively outweighs it.
GPS works very well - especially as Quick GPS which really does work.
Downsides:
Lost keyboard.
Upsides:
GPS - now just not having to lug around and charge my BT GPS module, but now much faster and lets me do all manner of stuff (geo-tag photos with a reg tweak), GPS trackers allowing me to see where I've been in google maps blah blah.
Much better camera - not so much the 2M -> 3M change - but AUTOFOCUS.
SMALLER - now it's not a small phone, but it's not an f'in brick like the last one.
No real difference noticed between the processors. Latest 6.1 I put on my Hermes made it lovely and snappy - and performs exactly the same on the Polaris. Only reservation I've got with the polaris is the screen res (i.e. same old rubbish). Not entirely convinced Hi-res WM is much better though after playign with colleagues PDAs - I've got an ipod touch and THAT is what i'd want somehow wedged into my phone..
In summary, if you want a phone now, I'd definitely get the XDA. If you can wait maybe see how Diamond and 3G iPhone stack up.
#edit - and build quality on my XDA (at least) is perfect. Nice solid feeling thing, love the slightly rubberized case.

Thanks very much for your opinion...I think I might just go with the Orbit 2 after all...a VGA screen would be nice, but I'm happy enough to have the standard one...and it's a little smaller than my BLue Angel so that's always a benefit.

Seriously this is an outstanding device. Software is software and any issues can 99% of the time be sorted with it and normally are, especially when you browse around these forums. Also bare in mind that all these devices now use windows mobile so I don't understand why someone would fault the Orbit 2 over another windows mobile device because of the software it comes with.....anyway the hardware itself is exceptional, I've posted a mini review if you look through my post history and there's plenty of in-depth reviews out there.
Losing the keyboard is a good thing in my opinion. A keyboard isn't necessary, its just as easy (if not easier) to use the software input (my personal preference is a T9 style pad that learns words and is very quick to use with just one hand like a normal phone) and obviously you save on weight and bulk.
The Orbit 2 looks great, is extremely responsive and comfortable to use and in my opinion is the best windows mobile device availible at this time.
Quick edit! - regarding the SW, the rom that the O2 Orbit 2 comes with is actually fine anyway, i've never encountered any issues with it - it would be nice to have the threaded SMS that 6.1 has but aside from that its fine and works great. Cheers!

SOunds like you're pretty damn happy with it then
So the 200MHz processor isn't an issue? Still responds well? Thing like TOmtom run well?

The Orbit 2 has a 400MHz CPU, it was the original Orbit that had 200 -it also has twice the amount of memory. TomTom was perfectly useable on the original Orbit but it noticeably runs smoother on the Orbit 2 - The Orbit 2 is a lot better at managing multiple tasks at the same time.
I was in two minds before upgrading becasue I had the original Orbit and wasn't sure if I'd get my money's worth. I was going to send it back if I wasn't happy with it. I'm more than happy with it though as you can tell! its a great device. You've always got that 14 day cooling period with O2 anyway so you may as well give it a go for yourself.

doh...you're right...I was thinking of the original Orbit.
No 14 day cooling off for me..I'm in Australia so the only way to get at a decent price is eBay.
I think I've been convinced to get the Orbit 2...just a pity it doesn't have VGA...and the diamond will probably be a fair amount more than the Orbit 2

Actually a the Diamond will be cheaper then the Polaris/Orbit2... But my oppinion is that the VGA is too much on a 2.8" screen...

The Orbit 2 is a damn good toy... after tuning the cache and graphic settings..speed was even better than before..
also gps works great...a lot of stuff in a small little case...

I am also happy with my orbit 2, copilot in mo is better then tomtom i have both installed.
I like golive's interface and extra settings plus the website for tracking is a good feature.
The Software available is none stop from here and other sources, unlike the iphone i had that you could only load decentish software if you hacked it..
a couple of minor gripes, the screen is a little shiny for sunny day use and the camera could be alot better.
apart from that i am very happy with it, let hops the diamond touch flo 3d becomes available then that will make this device look great.
the hsdpa speed is great when in the right areas, 50k download speed from my laptop...
the gps seems acurate enough, fast on a warm start as well.
its performance could be a little better but overall its very good.
I would install opera mini as i have found this much better then ie and opera mobile for day to day use.
as for the missing keyboard, try touchpal or the diamond keyboards, also make sure you adjust the sensivity of the screen do a search on here, i think the keyboard is great been software as you can load loads of different types and type quicker with the stylus on some over a flip out keyboard.
the flip out keyboard types can be a little thicker as well you cannot replace or remap keys like a software keyboard so there are plus's and minus's to both concepts...
if you type alot then get a bluetooth keyboard, or a laptop.....
i don't think you will b unhappy with your purchase...

Actually imho any HTC device when just introduced will very rarely be upto my expectation and initially i am always dissapointed,for the first few days,its just a matter of customizing(a heart felt thanks to this forum for teaching us how too) to our personal choice and then i just can't seem to live without them.When i took the Cruise i returned it the next day,very dissapointed with the handset,nothing it could do(and in the factory state it could'nt domuch)was enough,I thought that my Kaiser was far better,then after going through the Cruise forum went and picked it up again,customized it and now wonder how did I ever think negatively abbout this handset,I just love it the feel of it in my hand and also the perfomance,ended up keeping both the Kaiser and Cruise without regrets.