Related
I know that there are currently a lot of gripes about the GPS hardware on the Raph. Granted that's the case and given also differences in regional performace and accuracy of mapping applications (live, google, tomtom, etc):
What is your favorite Mapping app to run on the Raph?
Bonus: If you're on ATT have you tried the Navigator service? I'm wondering if it provides any improvements, which I suppose would, to some, be worth the cost?
Personally I am getting pretty comfortable with Live on my WIZARD (*sniff*) but can't wait to have actual onboard GPS.
Thanks all!
BK
The mapping software you've listed cannot be compared. Live search and google are good places to find businesses and services as well as see movie listings gas prices and even street views now. TT, garmin, IGO are there to give you specific instructions how to get to addresses or coordinates eliminating the need for internet service by having pre loaded maps.
Not to mention exact location. Really hated Google Maps telling me where I'm around...and finding Pois "around where I'm somewhat located" on such a small screen is cumbersome. Igo8 (Mio/Ocn) is hands down the best one-(once you get past its lag)
1. 3d terrain
2. 3d buildings
3. TTS
4. Sys.txt customization is a beautiful thing.
5. Huge Poi database
6. Several skins inform you where a poi is based on GPS location (and tells you in which direction)
7. Direct dial a POI from Igo8 w/o having to exit program.
Start w/ igo8, can't go wrong...
telegraph0000 said:
Not to mention exact location. Really hated Google Maps telling me where I'm around...and finding Pois "around where I'm somewhat located" on such a small screen is cumbersome. Igo8 (Mio/Ocn) is hands down the best one-(once you get past its lag)
1. 3d terrain
2. 3d buildings
3. TTS
4. Sys.txt customization is a beautiful thing.
5. Huge Poi database
6. Several skins inform you where a poi is based on GPS location (and tells you in which direction)
7. Direct dial a POI from Igo8 w/o having to exit program.
Start w/ igo8, can't go wrong...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know of a way to get iGo to give you routes like Garmin?
If I try to route the 5 hour trip to my parent's house, Garmin will give me a logical route with the shortest time. iGo will give me a route that it says will take an hour longer and take me out of the way.
Oddly enough, iGo's route is the same that Google Maps shows, even though the Garmin one is supposed to be the fastest time.
And I've tried both the Fastest route and Shortest route.
I love iGo, but I'm not 100% sure about its routing.
Have you tried out igo's and/or Garmin's suggested route? I'm sure you know how to get to your destination w/o gps--but sometimes Igo does make sense...which one do you find most logical? With regards to the time differences, how current are both of your maps? That may make a difference.
Odd story of mine, googled how to get from No. VA to Niagara falls. It set out a nice interstate route that would most be described as a half moon...Igo plotted a straight route all the way (yes...even through the boondocks) with the same time estimate. Tried one going up, the other coming down...and no differences in est. arrival time! I swore that my interstate 85mph travel would get me there faster...the Cletus way worked just as well...
Well unfortunately neither one of them do the complete interstate route since it supposedly takes 10-15 minutes longer (since you go further out of the way), but its an easier drive.
I guess both make sense, and they might be close in times, but I don't know how the ETA can be so different unless iGo adds in something that Garmin doesn't.
The only way that route should take 6+ hours is with stops for gas and stops. iGo doesn't estimate how many times you need to stop for gas does it? lol
I might try it again next time I go there (at the end of the month) and switch between the two and see what happens.
EDIT: Both apps use the latest Navteq maps (same version).
Great response! I'll try Igo8 as soon as my Raph/Fuze lands!
Sweeney Russ: As you point out the software I ask about is definitely not the same. But since my current Wizard doesn't have GPS I'm limited in what I can use with just the internet connection. Can't wait to try out a real GPS solution and it sounds like Igo will be the one to get first.
Thanks all for your replies!
Has anyone come across a free GPS program that caters to hiking/raster/ortho imagery?
I was using my Tilt for hiking tips but roads are not really necessary. Is anyone using ESRI ArcPad on their Fuze? I was using it on my Tilt (30 day trial) and created a few good road maps, but noticed the Fuze has trouble finding the GPS receiver through ArcPad and the app doesn't fit entirely on the screen as it did with my old Tilt.
telegraph0000 said:
Not to mention exact location. Really hated Google Maps telling me where I'm around...and finding Pois "around where I'm somewhat located" on such a small screen is cumbersome. Igo8 (Mio/Ocn) is hands down the best one-(once you get past its lag)
1. 3d terrain
2. 3d buildings
3. TTS
4. Sys.txt customization is a beautiful thing.
5. Huge Poi database
6. Several skins inform you where a poi is based on GPS location (and tells you in which direction)
7. Direct dial a POI from Igo8 w/o having to exit program.
Start w/ igo8, can't go wrong...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see you can only use IGO8 with a SDCARD? That kinda sucks.
Hi guys,
I just got my FUZE on Friday, and spent the last 4 days setting it up! It's almost done! What an incredible machine!!
Anyways, I've always used iGuidance to find places. It's worked for me since the first version. I just set it up, and it's working well. The infamous Raph GPS lag has not prevalent over the past few days. It seems to be as good as my TyTN with an external BT receiver.
The maps are extremely accurate, too. There is a new 2009 version that I am curious about.
In any case, I'd love to hear more quick opinions about TomTom, Route66, etc. etc.
As I said, I am quite happy with iGuidance, but am always on the lookout for better warez!
ATT Navigator
ElBorba said:
I know that there are currently a lot of gripes about the GPS hardware on the Raph. Granted that's the case and given also differences in regional performace and accuracy of mapping applications (live, google, tomtom, etc):
What is your favorite Mapping app to run on the Raph?
Bonus: If you're on ATT have you tried the Navigator service? I'm wondering if it provides any improvements, which I suppose would, to some, be worth the cost?
Personally I am getting pretty comfortable with Live on my WIZARD (*sniff*) but can't wait to have actual onboard GPS.
Thanks all!
BK
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I just got my fuze, and right now there is a 30 day free trial of AT&T Navigator, everytime I have tried to "Speak" just my city and state, Snohomish, WA it tells me I want to go to utah, and finding a store like Fred Meyer just wasn't on there, on a good note when it notices you taking another route off the way, it tends to re-route within seconds, most of the time just telling you to make a U-Turn, this is my first GPS, so I have nothing to compare it to... I would suggest trying it for the 30 day free trial, but, I am not sure if I want to keep it past the 30 days...
double post
seanvree said:
I see you can only use IGO8 with a SDCARD? That kinda sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can run it off internal memory ONLY if you have enough to cover the basic program + map(s)...
Careful with the ***ez...may skate on thin ice...
Skip ATT navigator, no cell signal (dead zones), no location..
Whaaaaat!?!? ATT Navigator uses the cell signal for location!?!? That has to be a joke, right? Amazing that I didn't realize that! Fatguybp, you're right up the street from me! I'm representing Everett. Yes, Washinton's spleen...
ElBorba said:
Whaaaaat!?!? ATT Navigator uses the cell signal for location!?!? That has to be a joke, right? Amazing that I didn't realize that! Fatguybp, you're right up the street from me! I'm representing Everett. Yes, Washinton's spleen...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No ,,, the maps are downloaded through the cell towers...you don't have static maps.... It does use the gps...
I use tomtom mobile, great piece of software lots of POIs and options, maps are stored on my sd card which is great I think, they dont take more then 1.3gb. Although tomtom drains my battery pretty good, I dont care since I have a car charger (you can pick one up from ebay for $3.18 or get one in walmart for $9). If you dont care much about piracy I suggest going to demonoid if you have an account and downloading the tomtom and all the directions on how to set it up are included in the torrent.
I use Google Maps what am I missing?
thehyecircus said:
I use Google Maps what am I missing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Turn by turn guidance with tts and a working gps far from cell towers. Also lot more options to plan a trip including simulation.
Well I have 3G service, what programs are good to get? The first one on the page mentioned sounds great, but it also sounds slow and crappy.
For these GPS software with pre-loaded maps, you don't need data connection. I use iGO 8, also tried Garmin Mobile XT. They both work well but iGO has TTS and much better visual. Tomtom comes pre-loaded in some and the software is available for free (I saw some links in this forum), so just buy a map for your country/region and you are good to go.
I use to have a Garmin 3600 Palm/GPS combo. One of the coolest things I found was the ability to download raw data from USGS and create my own Topo maps for different areas I wanted to explore. (You could also spend $120 and get some pretty good ones from Garmin).
The GPS on my Nexus One locks faster than any GPS device I've ever used. I was wondering if anyone has experience with good GPS applications. I'm thinking outdoorsy, not road navigation. How about the ability to create and use my own maps? I want something that works even when (or especially) when there's no data/cell service available.
Another thing, why the hell don't we have google earth? In the desktop application you can use alternate map sources, and I think this would be perfect. I sure the hell won't use all my 16GB of card space on music and videos...
That was my response. Google Earth. I think they demoed as much in the N1 press conference.
Update
In case anyone else was interested in this:Just downloaded Trimble Outdoors from the Market. Cost $10.
Looks to have some good features and topo maps can be cached for offline use to the SDcard. I was checking out the topo maps for the area around my house, and it looks like they are using USFS maps from the 1950s or 1960s. There are a number of trails and roads missing, but it's definitely better than nothing. I think I'll contact the developer to see if it would be possible in a future release for loading my own maps.
Does anyone on here use COPILOT LIVE 8 USA? I have some issues and I wonder if anyone else can add some comments as to how to resolve? I have sent these to COPILOT SUPPORT but no response yet.. I am hoping to get all of these resolved:
1. I am alerted that I am at my destination BEFORE I actually get there. It also doesn’t tell me LEFT or right or ahead is my destination. Can this be resolved?
2. I tested 2 addresses today with COPILOT and a GARMIN GPS. The Garmin was dead on while COPILOT was lost and had be going in circles. This was while I was in a development with a LOT of little side streets. Can this be fixed?
3. when you get to your destination, it doesn’t give you the option to CLEAR the route. It asks me what I want to do but if I close the BOX, since I don’t want to do any of that, it keeps the route I am on. I noticed this as I use COPILOT to get home. Then today, I turned on copilot and it still said it was running the route to my house. I couldn’t find any way to clear it except to delete next stop. Then it cleared the route. I also see no way to click CANCEL ROUTE if you decide you don’t want to navigate to where you set. My Garmin has an "X" that I can hit to cancel route.
4. Program is missing a LOT of POI's .. For instance, I was sitting in a parking lot of WAL-MART which has been there for many years. It didn’t know this Wal-Mart existed. It did know about other ones nearby but not this one. Same with TARGET, I was sitting in a target parking lot and it didn’t know target was there.
5. Routing is wrong on some trips.. Sometimes it will tell me to turn left when you can't or when LEFT is the completely wrong way to go. How to fix?
6. I entered in SPEED TRAP DATA but it NEVER alerts me to any of them. I said YES to the fact I was importing SPEED TRAP data but it never did anything.. MEANWHILE, my Garmin did alert me.
7. It would be nice if I could pull addresses out of my EVO 4G address book so I don’t have to re-type them in and also if you could do voice entry of the data Like GOOGLE and SPRINT navigation already do.
8. It appears the maps are SEVERAL YEARS out of date. How do I get updated maps?
9. If I want to select a POI to travel to... I select the category, then pick my POI or type in the name.. Lets say WALMART. Then I find the walmart but then decide that wasn’t what I wanted. I then hit my back arrow on my phone and select a different category or maybe just type in a different name of a POI. When I then search for the new one, it brings me to the orig category and POI and NOT the new one. I have to completely back out back the main screen of copilot and then start over with finding a POI. I have to do this every time..
I hope someone can help resolve these issues... Thanks...
1. CoPilot alerts you with an audible alert slightly before the exact destination. I don't know why. But there is no fix for it, as I doubt they consider it a problem. CoPilot does not tell you that the destination is on the left or right. If you look closely on the map though for the destination flag, it will be drawn on the left or right side of the road. You can tell from that.
2. Read the review in the Android Market and Apple App Store for ALK's products in the US. ALK' maps are notoriously bad and out of date. They try and do their maps in-house instead of buying them from Navteq or TeleAtlas. As a result, customers suffer, but you also pay less.
3. ALK has known about this issue for a LONG time. I personally have sent the issue to them a year ago. The only way to cancel the route is to select the "remove next waypoint" option, or something to that effect, don't recall the exact name.
4. Same issue as the maps. They are bad. Try using the Google Search instead of the POI search within the app.
5. Buy a different app. The maps are bad, these are the repercussions of that.
6. Traffic camera alert functionality works. I have used it in the past. Don't say what you did wrong, but that function does work.
7. Don't hold your breath.
8. You don't. The maps are what they are. You can submit errors and they will correct them within 45 days supposedly. But when you are starting with maps as bad as they are, you'd be submitting problems every time you use the product.
9. Can't help you with that one.
dahauss said:
Does anyone on here use COPILOT LIVE 8 USA? I have some issues and I wonder if anyone else can add some comments as to how to resolve? I have sent these to COPILOT SUPPORT but no response yet.. I am hoping to get all of these resolved:
1. I am alerted that I am at my destination BEFORE I actually get there. It also doesn’t tell me LEFT or right or ahead is my destination. Can this be resolved?
2. I tested 2 addresses today with COPILOT and a GARMIN GPS. The Garmin was dead on while COPILOT was lost and had be going in circles. This was while I was in a development with a LOT of little side streets. Can this be fixed?
3. when you get to your destination, it doesn’t give you the option to CLEAR the route. It asks me what I want to do but if I close the BOX, since I don’t want to do any of that, it keeps the route I am on. I noticed this as I use COPILOT to get home. Then today, I turned on copilot and it still said it was running the route to my house. I couldn’t find any way to clear it except to delete next stop. Then it cleared the route. I also see no way to click CANCEL ROUTE if you decide you don’t want to navigate to where you set. My Garmin has an "X" that I can hit to cancel route.
4. Program is missing a LOT of POI's .. For instance, I was sitting in a parking lot of WAL-MART which has been there for many years. It didn’t know this Wal-Mart existed. It did know about other ones nearby but not this one. Same with TARGET, I was sitting in a target parking lot and it didn’t know target was there.
5. Routing is wrong on some trips.. Sometimes it will tell me to turn left when you can't or when LEFT is the completely wrong way to go. How to fix?
6. I entered in SPEED TRAP DATA but it NEVER alerts me to any of them. I said YES to the fact I was importing SPEED TRAP data but it never did anything.. MEANWHILE, my Garmin did alert me.
7. It would be nice if I could pull addresses out of my EVO 4G address book so I don’t have to re-type them in and also if you could do voice entry of the data Like GOOGLE and SPRINT navigation already do.
8. It appears the maps are SEVERAL YEARS out of date. How do I get updated maps?
9. If I want to select a POI to travel to... I select the category, then pick my POI or type in the name.. Lets say WALMART. Then I find the walmart but then decide that wasn’t what I wanted. I then hit my back arrow on my phone and select a different category or maybe just type in a different name of a POI. When I then search for the new one, it brings me to the orig category and POI and NOT the new one. I have to completely back out back the main screen of copilot and then start over with finding a POI. I have to do this every time..
I hope someone can help resolve these issues... Thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Is there any app like copilot live usa that works? I love the features of copilot over google and sprint navigation. actually it would be nice if I could find and app similar to copilot and my garmin rolled into one.
Sent from my EVO4G using Tapatalk.
What about the navigon app?
edit- apparently navigon is also bad. is there any good paid navigation app?
Sent from my EVO4G using Tapatalk.
I wouldn't say that Navigon is bad. It is just very v1.0 as far as features goes. Biggest issue is that there is no app2sd. It is Navteq data so it is as good as it gets from that perspective. They have yet to announce a map update policy either.
dahauss said:
What about the navigon app?
edit- apparently navigon is also bad. is there any good paid navigation app?
Sent from my EVO4G using Tapatalk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it work in USA? I dont see USA maps talked abut on their site..
Yes, Navigon has a US app.
tried Navigon and it stinks. WHILE the maps and routing is better and traffic seems to be included, its missing a lot of things that copilot does.. the POI icons on navigon and the map as so small you cant read anything while driving. AND in 3D mode, there are NO STREET NAMES. You also can not see a list of directions so you do not know what route is is taking you on. It DOES have some nice features though, but NOT at $61.00 .. My issue now, is trying to get a refund since it took almost 2 hours to download maps which is more then the 15 minute time limit. In fact, once I tested the program for 10 minutes driving I decided COPILOT, even with some of its flaws is better ... M probably have to call credit card company to get refund...
is there ANY program that is worthy of buying for a navigation program? or do I stick to my old garmin?
Your main options are Google Navigation, CoPilot, Navigon or Sprint Navigation. I've used them all. I also have a Garmin 885t and a TomTom 740 Live. I've owned about 6 other devices over the years. I can tell you that Google Navigation is my primary GPS at this point. I like it a lot. I miss nothing from my Garmin. I only miss the ability to detour specific segments of the route from TomTom. I miss nothing from Sprint Navigation. I deleted Navigon. It took way too much room and didn't have app2sd. I have CoPilot installed as a backup should I not have a connection to use Google Navigation. I will remove it and reinstall Navigon if it ever gets app2sd.
im rooted so I was able to put NAVIGON on the SD card. I just dont like some things, which I mentioned. Im actually trying another program that has a 7 day trial and is free from the market for the trial. Its called AURA. it says it uses the latest TOM TOM MAPS.. I ASSUME they are up to date. it also has traffic and other stuff.. Looks good on the web sites BUT I havent tested it yet as I am downloading some of the maps. this program also supports APP2SD without the trick I did for navigon..
so I am playing with AURA but It appears it doesnt speak street names.. thats a deal breaker... I have a support request in to see if it actually does this. I hope it does. it is one heck of a nice program... IM using the USA version
EDIT: Looks like it doesnt speak street names.. I have a support question to ask about this. This program would be AWESOME if it did. its got the NEWEST TOM TOM MAPS and it does almost everything I want. the NON SPEAKING STREET NAMES is a DEAL BREAKER.. I hope they answer my question and fix that issue...
Hi
I love the look of Sygia Aura Drive Europe but is this free?
also Navigon with the black theme looks sweet
I have used TOMTOM on my TYTNII for years so anything that comes close to these 3 and for free would be awesome
Or is this asking too much?
efcgenius said:
Hi
I love the look of Sygia Aura Drive Europe but is this free?
also Navigon with the black theme looks sweet
I have used TOMTOM on my TYTNII for years so anything that comes close to these 3 and for free would be awesome
Or is this asking too much?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's wrong with Google Navigation?
Just reading about it now
I do already have it installed and didnt know it was a turn by turn app
"Google Maps Navigation requires a data connection to download its routes and mapping data. So if you don't have this at the time you plan your route, you will not be able to use the service. If you veer off the route and recalculation is required, a data connection will also be needed. Without it, navigational instructions will cease"
"There's no built-in Points of Interest database organised by category, and no safety camera information either. There are no speed limit warnings"
I have found skobble by googling, has anyone used this before? and can you compare it to TOMTOM and Google Navigation
Thanks
As far as I am aware Sygia Aura Drive Europe is free to use but my only trouble with it is the maps are SO out dated, probably about 2 years out of date around my town, does not have any of the new road layouts (new=about 2 years ago) but tomtom does, I also used to use tomtom on Wm6.5 and also igo but nothing seems as good on android (unless you have a data plan).
Which is the best and why?
Please post feature set and what sets it apart from the crowd.
No one?
10char
sygic maps is my fav, supports speed camera warnings and good support, but sgyic aura is smoother fps but might use more battery as it uses 3d but deffo like aura
I only tryed ndrive, its amazing, very acurate and fast! the only thing i didn't like about ndrive was that it always tell's you not too turn at intersections (even in an highway when exist an exit, it tells you tkeet left(so you dont exit)).
didn't try the other tho..
sory for my english
It all depends on what country you are in. Generally, based on my experience in US, I would go with navigon. It shows animated alternate routes at start, it has the best lane assistance and junction view i have ever seen in any device.
The other thing to look for is your device. If you have a low end device, then Navigon will be sluggish, Sygic Aura wont work as it requires 3d acceleration, then you best bet would be co-pilot or i-Go.
I am in the US and am using a samsung galaxy s Vibrant.
I have tried navigon but the position jumps around compared to copilot.
I have heard good reviews of ndrive, sygic, and iGo.
I tried to download the free trial of sygic aura, but found maps needed to be downloaded by the state on the phone itself, which would take a long time. Does anyone know a way to download maps on the pc and transfer to phone?
...........
Has no one used iGo? I found there are 3 versions.
Myway, amigo and motonav. Which is the best?
Copilot my fav one, I'm in the US.
copilot directions are a bit quiet? where are the sound files stored, and is there a way to amplify the directions volume?
A buddy of mine has. Igo gas and I think its great.. I use copilot, I have a garmin and a tomtom.
Copilot needs a serious improvement in the POI department otherwise I'm happy!
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA Premium App
I'm in UK and use co-pilot. Quite happy with it except the traffic subscription which is basically crap! All it does it tell you "traffic incident reported". You have to manually look at where the traffic incident is, what the incident is, avoid it, etc. I've previously used tomtom for WM and on that traffic was brilliant!
Anybody knows a better navigation system on Android with working traffic updates in UK?
I would LIKE to try Sygic Aura on my Epic (Galaxy S) but just a single small map file for my state alone is taking over 2 hours to download. What a joke! I would need maps for at least 8 states in the U.S. for this to be useful to me, and it would take forever to download them all. I too would like to know if there is any way to download the maps other than via the phone, and then transfer them to the phone. Is it possible?
I too am 30% into a 511MB download of maps for my Samsung Galaxy S!
This Sygic look promissing, but thank God they give 7 days trial, its going to take longer than that to get the maps on!
i use IGO and i'm content with it
currently using copilot as backup to google nav/telanav (aka sprint nav) when I don't have a data connection in the boonies. Copilot lacks detailed maps and live traffic reports, but it works decent as a stand alone nav when i'm in a crunch without data signal.
I use iGo also. I think it is very good
Sent from my X8 using XDA App
I use Copilot and it always gets me where I need to go I also tried Sygic but the graphics was very choppy.
SPElectronics said:
I would LIKE to try Sygic Aura on my Epic (Galaxy S) but just a single small map file for my state alone is taking over 2 hours to download. What a joke! I would need maps for at least 8 states in the U.S. for this to be useful to me, and it would take forever to download them all. I too would like to know if there is any way to download the maps other than via the phone, and then transfer them to the phone. Is it possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open the database.xml file in aura's SD directory, you'll see all URLs for every file. You can then transfer them to your SD. Download one map so you have the proper folder to place the rest.
I use Sygic Aura in Europe and USA (Florida) - In Florida aura works a bit strange - at intersections with right turn lane Auea suggests often always turn left turn, followed by driving back...
Navigon: micro-review
I've tried them all since my time with Nokia. Eye candies were very important to me so my favorites were Sygic products. I also used Co-pilot on Android for a short time but I could not trust its route computations every times.
Now I favor efficiency and use Navigon MobileNavigator on a Samsung Galaxy S (i9000) (Europe maps).
I like it because:
it is easy to operate with one hand while you keep an eye on the road. Functions are never more than 2 clicks away
it proposes most of the time 2-3 alternative routes to drive from A to B. Goes with the shortest if you don't answer
it uses real-time traffic info to compute or re-compute routes
the 3D-view is optimum: nice gfx (imho), not too simple, not too complex
adding nearest POIs of interest to your route while driving requires minimum effort and distraction from the road above
it loads/updates all maps of Europe in 20 mins from my WLAN, including ALL speedcams. No computer required
it tells you to turn WHEN it is time to turn
route computations are very accurate (way better that Sygic products)
adding your own POIs is simple
I do not like:
Navigon's website that do not show any user manual for Android
the menu system could be better. Still, it is easy to operate while driving as it requires minimum reading for most operations, except settings
a price tag that can feel too high. But in the end, I found it worth every cent
The enhanced reality feature on the latest version seems interesting but my Galaxy does not look "straight ahead" at the road.
I would like to see a function to mirror the display so that I could use it when it reflects in my windshield in front of me.
Good luck! I hope this helps
ghostrid3r said:
currently using copilot as backup to google nav/telanav (aka sprint nav) when I don't have a data connection in the boonies. Copilot lacks detailed maps and live traffic reports, but it works decent as a stand alone nav when i'm in a crunch without data signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I am using it for the same reason. (; I think Co-pilot is alright. Gets me where I need to go and fast rerouting and all without data connection.