Database Info

REDUNDANT THREADS - What can we do about it?

I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
(edit) A wiki that's easier to edit and navigate, e.g., mediawiki, which would mean
More folks updating the wiki with the ability to edit subsections
More folks viewing the wiki with auto-created tables of contents
(edit)A single 'post your questions here' newbie thread to limit the amount of new threads created
(edit2)A thread or wiki entry linked at the top of every forum with proper forum etiquette.
(edit2) idea about restricting users according to post count removed
All of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
UPDATE 03-13-08
Thanks to Flar and the mods for pushing for new forums! Hopefully these changes, along with more member contributions, we will be able to fight back the redundant thread problem. I've noticed that quite a few senior members have taken a similar stance as I have with new users & redundant threads. I've been trying to either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place, or
given the noob the links he wanted.
If you're genuinely interested in helping others, you'll realize that two of the three ways actually teach a person new things, which means they'll be better off on their own, while #3 only encourages them to ask more questions.
Finally, for all of you that may be new or have less post counts, it's not the amount of time you've been here reading, because that's not contributing back to the community. So my suggestion to you would be to come back and re-read this thread after you've contributed back to the forum by having at least 500+ genuinely helpful posts and see if you feel the same way.
And I don't mean suggestions to fix a soft key issue by bashing the keyboard with a screwdriver, like someone who has flamed this thread

_Alex_ said:
I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
Restrict new threads to members (30 posts), forcing junior members to reply to existing threads. If new threads continue to be a problem, increase the limit to senior member status (100 posts).
More folks updating the wiki
actual comments for wiki updates so folks know what's new(I'm guilty of not doing this too) or an actual what's new page.
Both of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
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I couldn't agree more. A big part of the problem is the refusal of some to read or search before posting. When they don't get an immediate answer in an existing thread they start a new one. Maybe the answer is to allow the number of daily posts to be restricted by member status, with senior members being unresticted and moving downward from there.

To bad you can't put all of the threads inside the new sticky. That way, to post a new thread, you had to go thru the new sticky. Other than that, the only option I can think of is to hunt the redundant thread poster down and dismember them slowly on live t.v. broadcasted only to XDA members.
Edit:
I personally vote for my second option.

Agree with both suggestions. Mods...any comments? I have not dealt with forum software before...are those restrictions able to be implemented with this forum?

I've always liked the idea of limiting new people from starting threads, but I don't think we can judge on number of posts. I think this will just end with people joining, throwing an extra 30 useless posts into the first threads they come across, then posting their question thread.
I've always liked the idea of making someone wait 24 hours between registering and posting AT ALL. This way, we can still help those people with a genuine problem fairly quickly (rather than making them wait a week) but still weed out those who ask questions that could be answered by 2 seconds of thinking or looking.
Just my 2 cents!

Great suggestions _Alex_. There should be a stew time for new forum members. A 30 post limit should do it because by then one should have learned a little bit at least.
And now that there's a Google search box near the top of the page HOPEFULLY that cuts down on redundant new post.
@kwickone - Yes, it's possible and quite easy at that.

maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.

Perhaps a rethinking........................................
Okay, this is a common problem on here. Over and over -- endless threads on this subject. It cannot be solved with current technology.
Embrace the problem.
Sandwich method:
Commend them on their new purchase of the new phone they got. Great!
Then advise them to search. Read and learn.
Then Commend their enthusiasm for Any effort they show.
...

Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
This forum has turned into a user manual / tech support.
sd73ta said:
maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.
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There already is a noob section...the problem is no one reads it!
I waited 3 months before my 1st post or flash. I shadowed the threads, followed the chefs at that time (Faria, Molski, Xelencin, Risidoro) and watched the results of people flashing their ROMs. I waited till all was clear before I flashed.
Nowadays, people are buying expensive devices and just jumping into deep water without knowing how to swim and the cry to the lifeguard for help.

Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers

dwny said:
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
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This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
Maybe it is an idea to have it a bit like the "Facepunch forum" of GMOD. (for non gamer, it a HL2 mod forum) They had exactly the same problem only a little bit bigger then it is on this forum.
They solved it by some sort of rate system. Forum users can rate a post. If a user get a certain amount of negative points he is banned from the forum for 24 or something like that. You can also rate someone if he makes clever remarks or usefull contributions and rate him with a "thanks!"
This way people know they are being watched for stupid questions that are posted over and over again and search before they do something stupid. After all, saying stupid thing will cost you a time ban.
If you want to know exactly how it works. Register at the facepunch forum to check it out. It really does work. http://forums.facepunchstudios.com/

Shadowdh said:
Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers
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Even from my rudimentary knowledge of PHP based forums such as XDA, that would be extremely prohibitive in terms of processing power. Context-sensitive searching (even cached) is very resource intensive, and even implementing it on the Kaiser section ONLY would probably bring the boards to an impressive crawl.
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
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This seems a bit extreme. I bought my Kaiser and spent two or three days reading the wiki, boards, and specific threads about the Tilt. Still, I had a few questions that weren't addressed by existing threads and needed to start at thread. I agree with Alex's idea that there should be a delay (or post count check) for starting a new THREAD, but certainly not posting in general.
Likewise, I'm beginning to toy with cooking my own ROMs, and what if I was interested in starting my own thread to announce its availability? Certainly I shouldn't be required to append it to an existing (and likely unrelated) thread?
To the OP's original concern, I don't think it's a terribly unique thing to XDA. I frequent many forums, and it happens everywhere, particularly those which address technology or relationships. Everyone seems to think that their issues are unique and that they won't be covered in an existing topic. Likewise, many people just aren't comfortable with reading technical specifications, instructions, or explanations. I have dozens of friends capable of READING manuals for the devices they own and getting exactly what they need, but they don't trust the accuracy of the information unless I tell it to them myself.
Reading a bunch of instructions and trusting they are accurate is much scarier than having someone explain it to you, even if they're just regurgitating information already contained in dozens of wikis, texts or posts. This is the primary reason we have TEACHERS; most people are capable of reading everything they need to know, but prefer to have someone relate it to them in a way which caters to their understanding.
Long-winded thoughts aside, I agree with Alex's suggestions in their entirety.

i dont agree with the whole 30 or 100 postsbefore starting a tread but i do agree with the fact that it's annoying to read the same stuff over and over again people comming in with the same problems and questions but there are also people like myself that are longtime members but actually do read alot of posts so that they dont need to ask anything and dont make the 100 or so recommended post before starting a new tread..
but thats my opinion

I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help.
Assuming I actually did search for my answer and wasn't able to find anything, where would I turn? If I can't start a new thread, I would have no choice but to hijack a different thread. That would probably upset the people involved in that thread more than creating a new thread that they could easily ignore.
How about the new thread button routing through search? So that when you entered the title, it did the search, and at the bottom of the search results there was the button that actually started a new thread.

Steal Google's Idea
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site.
?????
...

Jewcookie said:
This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
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It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
tdsuen said:
I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help
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That's where the problem lies.
How many new issues are there actually? Most of the issues are when people have a problem with a specific ROM. What's been happening lately is that the Rom threads are huge now and to gain attention to their inquiry, people are starting new threads. If you take a look at who's doing this, it's members under 3 months
(Just my opinion & observation)

zcink said:
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site. ?????
Okay still Drunk at the time.
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LOL... It's great to see a drunk guy contributing to this thread as it adds a touch of humor to the entire situation
FWIW, one of the new members decided to post their opinion about our frustration venting over in the regular Kaiser forum (which I read very infrequently because I know that's going to be filled with support requests).
I'm wondering how many new users will chime in on that thread...
arrogance and elitism (were all here for the same thing)

Why not add a few more Mod's and just delete them (threads or posts) quick and easy? Have an automated response to the person that: "the answers you needed were already posted in another thread".

dwny said:
It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
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I totally agree that there needs to be some forum etiquette that needs to be followed, especially regarding new threads. The question is how we go about enforcing it...
Hopefully the mods/admin will read this thread and take our suggestions to heart.

Sober
Okay
A totally Sane -- Sober guy -- was just joking bout the drunk part.
A Huge Search Engine
You have to go thru the search Engine box to enter this site.
You can't miss.
Anyone who does not search will be Shot On site and put into the Ovens!

interesting idea for this forum

I just thought of this idea, and I really don't know how easy it is, and I have a feeling it just might work. With all the newbs that come in and don't read the wiki...don't read the rules, they post all these redundent threads. How about, in order to register to this forum, you have to take a test. This test will consist of certain questions from the wiki. I'm pretty sure this is a wild idea and getting this to work with this forum might be some work, but if it is done, I'm pretty sure this will reduce a lot of redundent threads. Of course, the test shouldn't be that hard if person read the wiki.
Just a crazy idea. Lock this thread if you think I'm insane.
edit: sorry, should say interesting idea for this forum, not thread.

Not a bad idea, needs some working out. To read the correct Wiki the first question would probably have to be "what phone do you own?"

I don't know about a test but maybe a period after you join you can read all the forums but cannot post for a set amount of days maybe. Thats just my 2 cents.
-McMex

its gonna be hard since a lot of us use different machines..its a good idea to somehow limit the noobness of these people posting redundent threads...but i guess it'll be hard to change the habits of those that just post rather than search
btw...i dont think this is kaiser rom development
maybe somehow mod the way we post...like have a label beside the "post" button asking if they hav searched or not and stuff like that so that the user can double check and think through before posting it..

just a thought...
maybe before someone can view the thread, there would be a pop-up menu (search thread menu) or something like that, that the user will be asked to input their querry and a list of links will be given for their easy access...hehe.

maybe we should not answer anything
and just say wiki
and thats it
nothing else
so that they will read the @@@@@@ wiki at last

another thought...maybe give like warning points or w/e...then after so many points u will have limited access or w/e then resulting in a ban if it continues to occur that they dont search answers for themselves first

wait doesn't the owners of this forum get paid more by having more threads from their advertisers?
idk i used to run a forum and thats how it worked with all our advertisers...
I think the purpose is not to piss people off by setting the rule to search first before you post, rather than preventing people to post. I don't think a test is a good idea because everyone has different learning capabilities.

i agree with the learning capabilities..but its the people who dont even want to learn...then just want other peple to give them the answer so they can happily enjoy their phone rather than learning it and finding it out for themselves...

bapssystupr3m3 said:
i agree with the learning capabilities..but its the people who dont even want to learn...then just want other peple to give them the answer so they can happily enjoy their phone rather than learning it and finding it out for themselves...
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agreed....

I'm with McMexican...
Probationary period of no posting for 7 days to familiarize yourself with the site, and read the WIKI(s).

Don't know why you guys playing the new ones. YOU WERE ALSO LIKE THEM!!!!

Another redundant thread.......
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=371254

I think we should have a separate wiki just on ideas 'cause there are so many of these now.
Now, to make my post related and not a space waster, how about this:
When somebody posts a new thread, after they hit "Submit reply", a script searches for keywords in their post and brings up a search result that might be related to their post. The poster can then ignore the posting if any of the search result is relevant or continue posting if search results are not relevant. To not make this feature an annoyance, the script only works when somebody's starting a new thread. How about that, eh?

I think every non-noob should hyper link "Wiki" or some other informative link in their signature. I think the more people that do that, the less redundancy will occur. just my two cents.

muthaflaco said:
I'm with McMexican...
Probationary period of no posting for 7 days to familiarize yourself with the site, and read the WIKI(s).
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Meanwhile you have some user who has bricked his phone and can't post for 7 days, and doesn't understand the wiki and then starts to send PMs to all the names he sees on the forum.
Every forum has this problem. There's not much really that you can do about. Either ignore the redundant posts or help them out. Your choice.

The easiest and most fun way would be to have them agree to search first and be aware that Senior Members can and will ridicule, belittle and flame you if you post a redundant thread. Make that text BIG and BOLD then they check the I agree and can proceed with registration.
This reminds them of the rules and if they don't follow we can do what we do best, make fun of them, laugh, and maybe send them in the right direction.

bapssystupr3m3 said:
another thought...maybe give like warning points or w/e...then after so many points u will have limited access or w/e then resulting in a ban if it continues to occur that they dont search answers for themselves first
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I really like this idea!!

Thread for Post Count
How about a thread, for users who make posts like this mine right now. It should be called "Increase your post count thread", this will serve posts like
1. Dumb noob questions (There usually have less than 10, so it will help them).
2. Posts to flame noob posts.
3. More Posts to follow up flaming.
4. More Posts that think this thread is more useful than a noob asking a stupid question because you can read and flash a phone.
5. Posts about how to make a perfect forum but not really do anything about it.
If I can think of more and don't have anything else to do with my life I will make my own thread with a big long list. Then ask for a sticky and be

While the ideas in this thread are good, as P1tater mentions, they are certainly not new.
I've come to an acceptance that there will always be someone who didn't take the time or effort to read before posting. Rather than thinking about different ways to force them, we should treat them with some amount of respect and either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place
Both of these methods will teach the user how to properly use this site. A bit of chastisement never hurts, as long as one of the two criteria is met.
Since that thread was created two months ago, alot of things happened. Some notable mentions are:
Kaiser Software & ROM Development forum
G.W.E.N.I. links & Kaiser FAQ
Shipped & Cooked & Radio ROM wiki
Sticky Rollup & easier wiki navigation
Actions always speak louder than words and this forum runs on user contributions. If you're reading this thread now and wondering what you can do to assist the community:
The Kaiser FAQ needs work, converting GWENI links into Q/A, to be truly an FAQ.
New questions and answers are always appreciated too.
Cooked ROMS is outdated and needs regular maintenance.
Hope this helps!

[POLL]Chance to Debate (Members' Views on Cleaning Policy)

Hi there,
I have been reaidng this thread since I bougth my HTC touch and it has been great help.
Before I start talkign about the issues I would like to thank everyone in here for all the hard work towards the community and all the work done by the moderators to make sure the forum is a clean and easy place to navigate in.
now on the issues .
I noticed lately that since a few users got promoted to moderator all I see is padlocks on half of the threads.
I am not against closing threads that already have an answer in the forum "by providing a link if possible" but it is more about closing the normal questions.
I have seen many threads benig closed straight away at the first answer and not giving anyone here the chance to add something or give an alternative answer or even say that the answer did not work????
The second behaviour I notcied was replying to a post froma moderator by actually editing the post itself and adding an answer on the bottom of it rather than replying like everyone else.
I would like to read other users opinion about this and have a great day.

i don't think there is anything wrong with closing the unnecessary threads. most of the threads which were closed were related to someone flashing a wrong ROM on his elf/elfin or not using the correct USPL. there are already a few threads for these kind of issues, so why create new threads? it has been said many times to reply in the existing threads, but most of the people don't follow this. i've,personally, tried to help of those people stuck with these kind of problems even though i could have told them to read. and once their problem is solved, there is no need for such type of NEW threads, so mods chose to close them.
as far as editing the posts, i think mods are only trying to help us to keep the forums as clean as possible so that a new user can read only the most relevant information without having to read 10-15 pages.

Although Aman (htctouchp, another dedicated-to-XDA & talented member) has explained to you about the policy followed especially in Elf forums, I would like to elaborate on a few things though
I presume you were refering to my posts
I agree with what you feeling brother. Even I used to feel the same when I had just started on XDA. I used to open new threads asking questions or trying to take guidance from the experts here, forgetting that some day I will have to take the responsibility of ensuring that the forum remains clean
Talking about clean thread, we dont close or delete threads because we despise new members (whom I dont prefer to refer as *Noobs*) (definately not that we do) but because we want everyone to reach the relevant informative easily without having to go through 150 pages of the forum. This Elf / ElfIn forums are being moderated largely by me and Noonski (although he is currently busy cooking wonderful ROMs and buying new shoes )
Also at the same time if you have observed, the threads are closed and left in the forum (not deleted) because somewhere a link to answer for the question which is asked is posted in that thread or some information has been provided by certain member. The thread is closed after this to avoid further crowding in that thread and the new members having to go through more pages trying to find the answers they seek and finally opening a new thread again for the same question
Same reason why a post is edited so when a new member views the thread, he can find the question with the answer itself
Hope I have been clear in communicating the reasons and we all do appreciate the fact that dedicated members like yourself do come here on XDA to find answers and guidance from the experts
Now I will close this thread once you are through reading this (I'm kidding) But I would certainly edit the subject of the thread to something moderate that will surely make members come in and post their views

Well i think you have a valid point.
But if you know the usual behaviour of most users it's laziness.
I can only say that when i start a thread to do Data Collection and compression it only leaves an easier to read thread.
This has only happened on one thread where it was mentioned in the first post.
Yes it can be seen as misuse of power which it isn't.
A user can always reedit his or her post, and no one has done so.
Truth is that i would not be able to if i was not a mod there would not be a way to get a compact and information related thread, so that does make it a very valid point you make.
But a user does get the immediate answer to the question instead of getting it posts after that. I then try to delete only my own posts.
All i'm doing is try to make a thread as easy as possible to read instead of going through pages and not seeing the answer, then ask about it and get the answer that it has already been handled in the thread.
I could go back to the answer 4 questions in one post, but long posts also have the effect that people don't want to read them.
This is definetly worth the discussion.
But a viewpoint most not be forgotten that it is mainly been done to make things easier.
It's long threads that make users start new threads about the same thing.

See? This is the reason why we would want the forums to be clean. This is already discussed in the stickies just above their new threads (which are gonna see the padlocks soon)
htc update
6.1
Elf0100: cid=00 > ruu:error294
How to remove the bottom bar in today screen?
NEED HELP

I agree with the mods, but I do fell some kind or something is missing. maybe I'm not an average user, but I do enjoy reading 15-20 pages of information, searching something like crazy is my second hobby. Sometimes laugh or mad if peoples asking question that already known. To sum up , when i was a noob.... (I'm proud to say that, cause now I'm half NOOB ) I learn a lot by reading pageS to pageS, I like this forum alot by clicking that seach button many2 times

Hi everyone,
Thanks fot he replies and I need to mention something.
I think the forum is a lot cleaner and easier to read since the cleaning started and I agree with probabaly "and this is personal opinion obviously" with %95 of the thraeds closed especially when the answer exists and is easy to find.
Ah...I forgot to say thanks for the mod that renamed my thread as it reflects more what I wanted to talk about and get users involced in.
Basically my main point is more about having different opinions and views on the subet especially when a person comes along and ask how to fix a certain issue then the post should be left open even if the answer has been provided as the same thread might revive after a year or more where another person would look for the answer - find it - and then it probably won't work due to obscur reasons or probably just because it is a newer build - then the person will just post on that same thread rather than open a new one.
By the way ababrekar I did not refer to you at all in what I said and I generally don't read who edited or closed what.
I used to be a mod myself in a similar forum "tech oriented" and I know it is not easy task and you are not paid for what you do so again thank you for all you do to the community.
I will stop here for the moment and wait and see what other members think about this - there arn't many interested in this
K.

Not many interested parties to keep this thread alive
Kar brother, can I close this thread now? You advice

ababrekar said:
Not many interested parties to keep this thread alive
Kar brother, can I close this thread now? You advice
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No keep it alive definitly.
You know that not everyone goes to page two or three of the forum, and it needed a little bump.
It gives people a good platform to express themselves in the good way that kar did.
But maybe kar is a sister? (no pun intended)

Noonski said:
No keep it alive definitly.
You know that not everyone goes to page two or three of the forum, and it needed a little bump.
It gives people a good platform to express themselves in the good way that kar did.
But maybe kar is a sister? (no pun intended)
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Just posted something that makes the thread come back to page 1 Even I'm not intending to close this one. First I thought it would create fights but turned out interesting thread

Kar200 is definately a borther ... otherwise if you want to close this post I don't see any problem with this and I thought more people probably would have expressed their thoughts about the question but apparently everyone "including me" is more interested in knowing what new rom has been cooked for them so they can try it .

i have kept a close look on this thread for a while. and my opinion is this thread be kept for sometime. not much has been expressed here by other members. but i see this is one of a kind thread in the elf forum. and it gives an opportunity to express concern and at the same time to show appreciation.
thankx kar200 and all others in this thread. lets work out any concerns we have over the elf forum in this single thread

To post or not to post?
While i do agree, that the forum needs to be clean and its users repsecting the rules etc.... human nature as Noonski pointed out is laziness! so there will always be threads being opened. I think that most junior members will fall into this catergory (and this is NOT a dig at them but merely an observation ) but can be to a certain degree understandable/acceptable. Would you agree? If, however this is done by people who have been around for some time, then by all means close the thread and flame the user - they should know better.
As a thought, maybe some guidlines from the Mods here (Ameet and Noonski) re how long a 'repeated' thread will be kept open?
From a personal perspective, i have never needed to open a thread or even post that often specifically because i have always found what i needed from reading.... (which i kinda enjoy silly me)

I think for someone new to the scene and first coming here, it can be quite overwhelming. There is tons of information available, but where do you start? So from that perspective I can understand why someone would start a new thread. On the other hand, looking at myself when I first came here... all I did was dig through the piles of information just reading, not looking for something specific but just gathering as much info on any subject as I could.
As for the thread closing and modifying posts. The closing of threads depends on whats going on in the thread. Closing a thread on the first available answer can leave some users without a clue because the given answer wont work for them, and the cant reply on the thread to continue asking. Which can be a missed opportunity to add more useful data to the forums if someone has a different solution to the problem.
Modding the answer into the posters question can lead to some confusion if you ask me Only a mod has the uberpower to edit a users post, so if there is a mod nearby that had a good comment you have to look at your own posts, but you also have to look at the end of the thread to see if someone posted usefulness in case your post was not modified (hihi MODified ).

Biffert said:
I think for someone new to the scene and first coming here, it can be quite overwhelming. There is tons of information available, but where do you start? So from that perspective I can understand why someone would start a new thread. On the other hand, looking at myself when I first came here... all I did was dig through the piles of information just reading, not looking for something specific but just gathering as much info on any subject as I could.
As for the thread closing and modifying posts. The closing of threads depends on whats going on in the thread. Closing a thread on the first available answer can leave some users without a clue because the given answer wont work for them, and the cant reply on the thread to continue asking. Which can be a missed opportunity to add more useful data to the forums if someone has a different solution to the problem.
Modding the answer into the posters question can lead to some confusion if you ask me Only a mod has the uberpower to edit a users post, so if there is a mod nearby that had a good comment you have to look at your own posts, but you also have to look at the end of the thread to see if someone posted usefulness in case your post was not modified (hihi MODified ).
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I Am Cornelio, Need Dippy For My BungHole.
Where you been Biffert, enjoyed your vacation?
This has only happened on a specific Beta Thread

Noonski said:
I Am Cornelio, Need Dippy For My BungHole.
Where you been Biffert, enjoyed your vacation?
This has only happened on a specific Beta Thread
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I know, but it was more of a big picture perspective on the matter Ive been reading the thread as well and saw the request for some opinions so I thought, why not

Biffert said:
I know, but it was more of a big picture perspective on the matter Ive been reading the thread as well and saw the request for some opinions so I thought, why not
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I'm just to excited because i just ordered My Pro.
Gotta run Print and sign the contract.
But still Where you been?
Do tell or i'll fill it in myself

Noonski said:
I'm just to excited because i just ordered My Pro.
Gotta run Print and sign the contract.
But still Where you been?
Do tell or i'll fill it in myself
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Ive been finishing school and landed a job as a software engineer/consultant (And vacation ofcourse - Poland and Tsjech republic)
No Pro for me yet, still playing with my Touch (cant wait for the new Surface btw) and Kaiser
So its all good here
Edit: Bit of topic here, sorry bout that.

trashing threads too early create confusion!!!
Biffert said:
I think for someone new to the scene and first coming here, it can be quite overwhelming. There is tons of information available, but where do you start? So from that perspective I can understand why someone would start a new thread. On the other hand, looking at myself when I first came here... all I did was dig through the piles of information just reading, not looking for something specific but just gathering as much info on any subject as I could.
As for the thread closing and modifying posts. The closing of threads depends on whats going on in the thread. Closing a thread on the first available answer can leave some users without a clue because the given answer wont work for them, and the cant reply on the thread to continue asking. Which can be a missed opportunity to add more useful data to the forums if someone has a different solution to the problem.
Modding the answer into the posters question can lead to some confusion if you ask me Only a mod has the uberpower to edit a users post, so if there is a mod nearby that had a good comment you have to look at your own posts, but you also have to look at the end of the thread to see if someone posted usefulness in case your post was not modified (hihi MODified ).
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EXACTLY!
even if an answer has been already given...a thread shudnt be closed so early. cos the user has to check and then give feedback on whether it has worked or not.
i respect the work of the mods...but somehow i cant fully support the idea of kabooming threads when a single answer or a re-directing link to an answer has been given. also note that, a new user tries to follow the thread he has created and which HAS the answers given mainly by other members....so when the user looks back...the help given or the helpful posts made in that thread is also missing. this creates confusion. and the end result....new threads too. at a point where closing a thread is justified is okay...but trashing a thread...wud and WILL only create confusion and misleading guidance. I hope this sentence is fully understood and looked into.
So, in my opinion, this does hinder what we are ALL here to do. To help out so called noobs!!!! This is finally what made me speak out here, cos i have witnessed a few cases, where some users has been lost into the advent of search button!
WHEW! Finally i hope i have shed some light on this debate too.
respect and peace to all members!

ayyu3m said:
EXACTLY!
even if an answer has been already given...a thread shudnt be closed so early. cos the user has to check and then give feedback on whether it has worked or not.
i respect the work of the mods...but somehow i cant fully support the idea of kabooming threads when a single answer or a re-directing link to an answer has been given. also note that, a new user tries to follow the thread he has created and which HAS the answers given mainly by other members....so when the user looks back...the help given or the helpful posts made in that thread is also missing. this creates confusion. and the end result....new threads too. at a point where closing a thread is justified is okay...but trashing a thread...wud and WILL only create confusion and misleading guidance. I hope this sentence is fully understood and looked into.
So, in my opinion, this does hinder what we are ALL here to do. To help out so called noobs!!!! This is finally what made me speak out here, cos i have witnessed a few cases, where some users has been lost into the advent of search button!
WHEW! Finally i hope i have shed some light on this debate too.
respect and peace to all members!
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This definitely goes for the Elf Rom Development thread now.
It's already good and cleaned.
I did notice that i do carry over the policy from a few other threads.
I'm all over the place, and at development a thread is fairly quickly moved if it does not belong there.
You should see how many reported posts come into my mailinbox.
The funny thing is that actually the hardcore cleaning stopped, just at the moment this thread got started.
So it now mostly is focused on going through old threads and going through their importance.
So for a while (and still) we have to be very straight forward.
Just look at the Diamond Forum with 845 Threads, and it's only been out for a short while. So over there there really is a now mercy policy that most mods agree on at the moment.
So the policy used there does not apply to the touch thread (not by a long shot).
A you can imagine how easily you start applying these rules.
I heard one user say "It's not a democracy here" in defense of the mods.
Truth is that it is a bit grayish on that matter, Most reported posts are submitted by users. (not the matter in ELF Forums).
So i can say that in the case of ELF forum i'll be mostly going through the very old posts and do some data compression if need be.

Mods Please Read [Request]

I know i don't have the BEST reputation around here but i know what i am talking about for the most part and i am begging for you to help clean up this site and forum. For the last few weeks the number of repetitive posts has been absolutely ridiculous, every time I get on XDA i see so many threads that all ask the same thing. There are some many users that apparently think that this site is a tech support site and do not respect us at all. I know that XDA is THE site for the latest info on windows mobile and now android, but people seem to join just to ask simple questions like "my phone is stuck on t-mobile G1 screen" or "BRICK PLEASE HELP!!" most of the people on this site have lives and jobs but i do not. i have no problem helping new members and old members alike, but i do have a problem with stupidity. if a member is not capable or not willing to search for an answer then they either A. don't need it, or B. shouldn't have tried to begin with. i beg that every member on this site go through the first 10 pages of this development forum for our dream and count how many repetitive threads there are open or closed.
i request that we get another mod, i know neoobs and mikey are very busy and do not have time to monitor the forum 24-7 even between the two of them. if we were to get another mod for the forum i think we could start closing/deleting threads that have no right being opened/started, i am not saying that we need to start closing threads left and right, but i know there are at least 10 threads in the first ten pages that talk about Bricked phone that either tried the new SPL, or some other reason. if we had another mod then repeat threads could be closed after a link or answer, that way we aren't completely rude to people but we can keep the forums clean.
Also i realize we can't just go banning people left and right, but if a person joins XDA and in a week has only posted a few times and all posts have been new threads asking about things that have been discussed in detail then they should be suspended to give them a chance to learn how to use the search function and read a few threads and the rules.

i also agree with this.
everytime i log on to xda i have to catch up with a couple pages of new threads and its ridiculous.

I think if u went through those pages u would see 3 threads saying the same think. Well I thinks some got removed (just like this one will) but frankly I don't think there is solution maybe if u had to take quiz befor you could become a member or something. I have I had mistakes on here when i started about posting dumb stuff but yeah that's my 2 cents.

I agree the activity level of this forum (448 - Dream Android Development) ought to merit additional moderation. I mean absolutely no disrespect to those already volunteering their time to keep things tidy -- quite the opposite.
I'm only posting in this thread to voice the opinion that a couple more mods might go a long way to keep some of the more basic questions and chatter relegated to a more appropriate venue (447 - Dream, most likely) and keep the front page ripe with the glorious development meat we all crave.
I'm not saying I'm the chap for the job, but I'd sure be willing to pitch in if consensus agrees there is need. I f5 the site pretty much all day as it is.

I tend to agree but I'm a newb around here still more or less, well to xda anyways. I try to help folks but lose my patience when someone quotes the answer and asks for help. It did give me an ambitious idea though along the lines of a catchall guide for rooting fixing your phone.

i do not think that the solution is as simple as a quiz since this site is a great place for so many phones(anything made by HTC) and no one quiz would cover everything. i am not saying that i need to be the moderator, but i wouldn't complain if i was. i respect the mods that we have and i think they are doing an excellent job. i don't have a job, and don't go to school, i spent about four hours a day sleeping and tthe rest of my time i am either on Xda or trying to find some new fun thing to do with my phone. i do not really have any one specific person in mind that should or could be a mod, but i think that with just one more person they could make a wold of a difference on this forum. just think about it that's all i'm asking

One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.
One thing that I think would definitely help the clutter is if the stickied posts are very clearly and plainly worded- almost to the point of "dumbing it down", so the newbies can understand it. For example, someone reads in the market that a program requires "root". They decide they are up to try rooting, and look here for the answers. There is a nicely written sticky by Koush that covers it all. That is a nicely written and easy to follow thread. But wait, now they read that Cupcake is out...just look at all the options. Unless they knew they were looking specifically for "JFv1.51 CRB43" how would they know where to start? Set the standards for stickies high (especially the titles!), and maybe it will catch some of the newbies.
Just my $.02

tubaking182 said:
I know i don't have the BEST reputation around here but i know what i am talking about for the most part and i am begging for you to help clean up this site and forum. For the last few weeks the number of repetitive posts has been absolutely ridiculous, every time I get on XDA i see so many threads that all ask the same thing. There are some many users that apparently think that this site is a tech support site and do not respect us at all. I know that XDA is THE site for the latest info on windows mobile and now android, but people seem to join just to ask simple questions like "my phone is stuck on t-mobile G1 screen" or "BRICK PLEASE HELP!!" most of the people on this site have lives and jobs but i do not. i have no problem helping new members and old members alike, but i do have a problem with stupidity. if a member is not capable or not willing to search for an answer then they either A. don't need it, or B. shouldn't have tried to begin with. i beg that every member on this site go through the first 10 pages of this development forum for our dream and count how many repetitive threads there are open or closed.
i request that we get another mod, i know neoobs and mikey are very busy and do not have time to monitor the forum 24-7 even between the two of them. if we were to get another mod for the forum i think we could start closing/deleting threads that have no right being opened/started, i am not saying that we need to start closing threads left and right, but i know there are at least 10 threads in the first ten pages that talk about Bricked phone that either tried the new SPL, or some other reason. if we had another mod then repeat threads could be closed after a link or answer, that way we aren't completely rude to people but we can keep the forums clean.
Also i realize we can't just go banning people left and right, but if a person joins XDA and in a week has only posted a few times and all posts have been new threads asking about things that have been discussed in detail then they should be suspended to give them a chance to learn how to use the search function and read a few threads and the rules.
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So, I've been hanging around and reading this forum since around November last year. That is about 2 full months before I even bought my G1. I love this forum, I can always find the answers I need and I have NEVER once posted a new thread. I use the search function, follow links posted in other forums and just plain old read. That is why I'm probably still listed as a noob. The thing is I have experience in a multitude of forums on a multitude of different topics and items so I know to usually keep my mouth shut unless its a contribution or an emergency. With that said...
The problem is that not everyone knows forum etiquette. Not everyone has been to a forum community and knows how to search. Not everyone knows that search doesn't always work so now its time to scroll threads. Not everyone knows patience like us to take our time to learn. In fact, I think most of the noobs here probably don't know anything about forums, what their about and how they work. All they know is they got a new G1 and SOMEONE said, "hey, you wanna make you phone cooler, go to www.xda-developers.com", or "how did you get that wifi tether thing to work?" So, they show up totally confused and excited to make their g1 experience better. They search a little, read a little and end up completely lost like I did the first time I joined a forum because they really don't know anything but they want to learn. I know we post, "Read this first or get locked", or something like that, but they honestly don't know what to do. This is, in fact a forum, which is defined as a place to meet to discuss things. If we just want to dictate and not discuss, ask questions, answer, and help then why have an open forum?
I will give you this though, there are those that just don't care, know rules, know the proper flow of events and know how to do it in general but still just do what they want. The problem is, though, those are few and far between.
I constantly have to ready, "why is this thread here?", or "mods lock this please", or "don't you know how to use the search function"? Maybe the answer to that question is NO. So why not bee true senior members and answer the question but teach how to use search instead of ridiculing and acting like they are stupid. The fact is new people will ALWAYS show up to forums and will ALWAYS ask questions that you feel are dumb, and ALWAYS start threads without searching or reading so why get mad about it? Answer the question or don't answer the question and blow it off. Why such a big uproar?
Just my .02, sorry if my rant pissed you off and I hope you don't lock me for it.

gospeed.racer said:
One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.
Just my $.02
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I couldn't agree more. Maybe more Forum Titles would help instead of just development? We could start one call How To's. I would click there first in a heart beat and then find the thread about how to do things.

gospeed.racer said:
One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.
One thing that I think would definitely help the clutter is if the stickied posts are very clearly and plainly worded- almost to the point of "dumbing it down", so the newbies can understand it.
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This is most certainly the case. I spent a lot of time writing and rewriting my SPL and HTC_CIME sticky posts so the first post would be as structured and easy to understand as possible.
That said, some people are also just lazy, don't know/care about stickies, or just don't have reading skills. Also, this is a hacking community. Information and developments move quickly. The sticky posts often become irrelevant or contain obsolete information pretty quickly. You have to just trust that the owner of the sticky will keep it maintained... but that's not always the case.
The basic problem here is do you promote inclusiveness or would you rather have a small pool of high quality members? If it were up to me, any time someone starts a new thread to ask "how i root" or "my a2sd broken HALP" it would be instaban.

setzer715 said:
I couldn't agree more. Maybe more Forum Titles would help instead of just development? We could start one call How To's. I would click there first in a heart beat and then find the thread about how to do things.
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in my experience, more subforums at this stage of the game almost always causes more headaches for mods than they assuage
re: your previous post -- i really feel you on the forum etiquette point, but it's hard to use that rationale to justify "PLEASE HELP - URGENT!!1" threads in the development forum, imo.

I am not a fan of wiki's, but a sub-forum for a Wiki style "how to" sounds to me like a great idea. It would be up to the OP's to keep them "fresh" though. Give all the developers a place to put their stuff, and keep questions out of it. Just recent, fresh methods and software, and easy to follow instructions. I wish I had something to contribute, as I really think this idea may help.

gospeed.racer said:
I am not a fan of wiki's, but a sub-forum for a Wiki style "how to" sounds to me like a great idea.
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xda has a wiki actually. No one uses it though. Also, you'd be a fool to think that just because there is a well maintained wiki that newbies won't keep posting their spam anyway.

jashsu said:
xda has a wiki actually. No one uses it though. Also, you'd be a fool to think that just because there is a well maintained wiki that newbies won't keep posting their spam anyway.
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I don't think we were actually saying another wiki. By the way you'd be amazed at how many people don't know what wiki is. Anyways, I think we're talking about a specific "How To" section that cant be posted on or responses on. It will have have How To's for Root, A2SD and whatever should go there.

alapapa said:
in my experience, more subforums at this stage of the game almost always causes more headaches for mods than they assuage
re: your previous post -- i really feel you on the forum etiquette point, but it's hard to use that rationale to justify "PLEASE HELP - URGENT!!1" threads in the development forum, imo.
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I agree, it would take more moderation. Someone to step and and handle it and I'm pretty sure the guy that started this thread was already asking for that. I'm just trying to off my opinion on what that new mod or mod's could moderate.
I'm really not trying to rationale the posts, I'm simply trying to provide a different point of view. As I've stated before, anytime there is an open forum for anyone to join there will ALWAYS be those posts. We could make it exclusive, where even I couldn't be part, but what would the point of that be? I thought the point was for people to share information and knowledge? Either way, lets let the dev's and mod's figure out what to do. I just hope I get to stick around.

setzer715 said:
I don't think we were actually saying another wiki. By the way you'd be amazed at how many people don't know what wiki is. Anyways, I think we're talking about a specific "How To" section that cant be posted on or responses on. It will have have How To's for Root, A2SD and whatever should go there.
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A stickied thread that indexes the [HOW TO] threads works pretty well for this purpose w/o as much overhead

setzer715 said:
I just hope I get to stick around.
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i wouldn't worry. I don't think anyone (in their right mind, that is) wants to make this board exclusive to the point that potentially meritorious members can't contribute or get valid questions answered.
after all...most noobs eventually grow out of it if they stick around long enough

I agree with many points,
Our forum is cluttered
We need more mods
I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.
Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)

neoobs said:
I agree with many points,
Our forum is cluttered
We need more mods
I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.
Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)
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I believe we should have a troubleshooting subsection, which would automatically filter out all the "I have a brick" type threads from the development forum.

neoobs said:
I agree with many points,
Our forum is cluttered
We need more mods
I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.
Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)
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Click to collapse
This was kinda my point. Development should be just that. Direct people looking for how to's or question's to different forums. Instead of just an extra How To, how about a Q n A one also? Then the development forum wont be cluttered and can just be for developers when they are working on stuff.

Reminder to anyone who is not a Dev...

First let me qualify (or disqualify) myself.
I do not own a Viewsonic G Tablet.
I own other Android devices.
I have a strong background in development and programming. I am the Director of Engineering for a small company in Tennessee where we develop adult amusement devices (no, not porn) such as slots, video poker, etc.
I am proficient in many languages, as well as 'nix operating systems.
I have cooked my own roms in the past.
Second...
I have been lurking around the XDA developer forum since back in the Windows Mobile 6 days. I currently have an Android phone and an Android tablet (not a Viewsonic).
Like everyone else here, the prospect of the new build is tasty. Wanting to delve into it myself to see what I can do, It is helpful to me to look (like many others) in the development forums to see what I can see.
However...
Let this serve as a warning to anyone who is not a "Dev" on this forum.
This forum, like many other here at XDA belongs to a handful of "Devs" and you are not one of these "Devs".
Your best bet is to lurk like the rest of us. I don't care if you have a Honeycomb port that will work on this device or a pill that cures cancer. They don't want to see it and you don't want the hassle of being flamed for trying to contribute. They will get to it and you will not beat them to it.
Devs work hard. They do the work for free and they should be revered and respected. But make no mistake, they know it and are not afraid to tell you to STFU and GTFO for merely making a suggestion or comment.
So do all of us a favor, stick to the General forums and don't poke the bear.
I do not plan to respond to this thread and it should probably be closed immediately.

neo4uo said:
Not trying to poke your bear, but even this thread should not be posted in here. This needs to be moved to the general section. This thread defines the word ironic.
Peace \oo/
Sent from my VEGAn-TAB-v1.0.0B5.1 using Tapatalk
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.........lmfao i was about to say the same thing, this thread totally defeat its purpose, the fact is no matter how much you tell people to "search" "post in the proper section" "dont ask for ETAs" and so on theres going to be someone that dont follows the rules, and WTF???? "This forum, like many other here at XDA belongs to a handful of Devs"??? this forum belogs to the community just as much as it does the devs......obviously someone did not read the "state of the site anoucement......tsk......tskk

I am poking the Bear, and here it goes.
If you want us peasants to stop posting in the Development forum of ANY device, simply create a tag for Developers, make it so only "x" amount of posts and a review by the mods, will grant someone this tag. Then you limit access to the Dev forum to tag holders only. Then, when one of the Devs (whos' work is tremendous and I highly resect) has something ready to go, they can post a link or a file in the General section.
That way us 'morons' who are not welcome here can't possibly get in their way with our useless posts and questions. I am tired of the elitist attitude that some have here. Yes a lot of you know more than I do about this stuff, yes I am learning to do this stuff in my SPARE TIME. I am not in college, I do not have a job that allows me to sit in front of a computer all day(don't want it either). When I do have the time to get invloved, or if I find something useful, like many of us, I want to post it. I don't want to be a leach. I can only speak for myself with this. I may not be able to give as much as the devs do, but how can I possibly learn if I dno't ask questions?
The Search feature that people here are so in love with and can't wait to tell us "search is your friend"?
Its almost useless. Its rare that I can find what I'm looking for in the limited amount of time I have to be on here. Its generally easier for me, and many others I suspect, to ask the question and wait for an answer.

Then ask the question. The big complaint is that most don't even try to look or they post "LOOK>>>>>HONEYCOMB ON THE NOOK.....WHY DONT WE HAVE IT YET" in the dev section. Granted the search function isnt great but filling up the forum with the same questions over and over is what makes the search function useless to some. Although I seem to be able to find what I'm looking for most of the time with a little work. The moderators have asked that people not post general questions as new threads in the dev section yet it keeps being done.
its not an elitist attitude about the dev section. Its a request to keep the posts to development only or at least inside the correct thread and not keep asking the same question over and over with a new thread.

I agree with limited access...
Frrrrrrunkis said:
I am poking the Bear, and here it goes.
If you want us peasants to stop posting in the Development forum of ANY device, simply create a tag for Developers, make it so only "x" amount of posts and a review by the mods, will grant someone this tag. Then you limit access to the Dev forum to tag holders only. Then, when one of the Devs (whos' work is tremendous and I highly resect) has something ready to go, they can post a link or a file in the General section.
That way us 'morons' who are not welcome here can't possibly get in their way with our useless posts and questions. I am tired of the elitist attitude that some have here. Yes a lot of you know more than I do about this stuff, yes I am learning to do this stuff in my SPARE TIME. I am not in college, I do not have a job that allows me to sit in front of a computer all day(don't want it either). When I do have the time to get invloved, or if I find something useful, like many of us, I want to post it. I don't want to be a leach. I can only speak for myself with this. I may not be able to give as much as the devs do, but how can I possibly learn if I dno't ask questions?
The Search feature that people here are so in love with and can't wait to tell us "search is your friend"?
Its almost useless. Its rare that I can find what I'm looking for in the limited amount of time I have to be on here. Its generally easier for me, and many others I suspect, to ask the question and wait for an answer.
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I think the idea of tags is a great idea, but once again I don't know how easy this function would be.

thebadfrog said:
Then ask the question.
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Unfortunately, you're changing the rules of the present discussion with that. The OP stated "Devs work hard. They do the work for free and they should be revered and respected. But make no mistake, they know it and are not afraid to tell you to STFU and GTFO for merely making a suggestion or comment." The implication of that is you SHOULDN'T ask the question, you should just STFU.
IMO, the OP is WAY out of line. If the devs don't want comments/suggestions/questions, then they should keep their dev work private and not open it up for public consumption. Yes, the rest of the community wouldn't benefit as much in that case, but there's no excuse for an arrogant attitude like saying STFU for GTFO if someone merely makes a suggestion or comment on something that's been posted for public consumption.
If the devs are simply doing their work and sharing it just to have people fawn all over them for it and expect not to have to deal with the questions/comments/suggestions of the "unwashed masses", well, sorry, the world (and this site/forum, from my understanding) doesn't work that way.

Its the answering "How do I install clockwork?" question that is posted all the time even tho its clearly posted as a sticky. "I've followed the directions exactly and I cant get TnTlite to install".....wrong....you havent or it would have installed. "When are we gonna get an update to X rom?"......"How come we don't have Honeycomb yet?"....."Your rom bricked my device"....."Why won't someone answer my question? that was posted 15 minutes ago.....The devs do this on their own time and for the most part are happy to answer questions but when its clear that someone has no intention of learning for themselves and just want the info handed to them on a silver platter.......well....it gets old

The OP is out of line with his "psa" unless he speaks on behalf of the collective body of said developers.
This is a rhetorical post, I will not be responding again.
Edit: see what I did there with that last line?

atakapa said:
I like turtles
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Collaaaaa!!!!

If we want to grow the G Tab community ( aka continue to receive the excellent support from the Devs) we need to grow the number of G Tab users. If I were considering a new tablet purchase and stopped by here to check out the G Tab, I would not put it high on my list. If new members post in the wrong section or dup a post, it's Ok to send them a "Friendly" reminder, but to blast them like this is an insult to everyone here. Hell they might even be driven to buy a windows mobile 6 product.