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For almost 2 years I used a Touch Diamond. While WiMo is far from perfect in todays world with a bit of tweaking and some extra software I had a device that did what I wanted it to do. Sure, WiMo isnt what you´d call fast but as said, it did what it had to do.
For the past few days I´ve been using android with my new htc legend. I heard a lot of good things about android and that is why I decided to switch. But even after a few days I´m already having a feeling of regret. While android is very fast and finger friendly the OS/apps itself just don't cut it compared to WiMo. About 75% of the things I did on a daily basis with my phone just don't work (properly) on android.
Syncing mail with hotmail is a *****. It for example does not sync read messages so everytime I login with my pc I still have to click all new messages while I already read them on my phone. This worked perfectly with WiMo.
No automatic 3g disconnect. Now this isnt default on WiMo either but there are apps that just disconnect a idle data connection. Now android has a whole bunch of apps like juicedefender but they just dont work properly and are overcomplicated. Just disconnect if I don't use it. Thats all I want. Let apps and whatever connect when they want to and kill the connection when they are done. Simple you'd think but impossible on android it seems.
Youtube is a epic fail. In the exact same place, with the exact same simcard I just can't load a movie. They all stop after 3 seconds and don't load further. Also there is no option for always having HQ. The WiMo app had this and I could always load HQ movies without trouble.
But it gets even worse when it comes to much more practical things. The browser won't save exchange webmail login info. So now I'm expected to loging like 5 times a day to my uni mail by typing my info every time? Not nice.
And what about displaying agenda items? can't do that on the lockscreen. There are apps to do this but not on the htc sense one as far as I've seen. So I have to manually check my agenda which is just a ***** because I'm just to seeing things come up on the homescreen.
Also I can't login to the uni website. You should get a login popup but the android browser doesnt seem to be capable of this. Ofcourse this was no problem at all with a 2 year old browser... So now I can't check schedules and all.
Also there is no way to stream my favorite internet radio station.
Basically I pay 10 euro's a month for internet on my phone but all apps I regulairy use with internet don't work or only work a bit on android.
Don't get me wrong, I love the speed and all but what good is speed to me if I can't use most of the functions that are important to me? What is even more disturbing is that non of the things I want to do are very special. This should all just work but it seems to be far above what android is capable of.
Basically to me android is a disfunctional OS. If the above things would work, I'd love it but now all I got is speed, but no way of doing the things I want.
Nice try, but not quite it.
sjaak1234 said:
Syncing mail with hotmail is a *****. It for example does not sync read messages so everytime I login with my pc I still have to click all new messages while I already read them on my phone. This worked perfectly with WiMo.
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Click to collapse
That's hardly Android error - it just seems to be a bug in the mail client app. Maybe yry another one?
No automatic 3g disconnect. Now this isnt default on WiMo either but there are apps that just disconnect a idle data connection. Now android has a whole bunch of apps like juicedefender but they just dont work properly and are overcomplicated. Just disconnect if I don't use it. Thats all I want. Let apps and whatever connect when they want to and kill the connection when they are done. Simple you'd think but impossible on android it seems.
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Click to collapse
It's not as simple as it sounds - android has to have an active data connection to enable IM messages as well as gmail imap notifications. Unlike POP3 e-mail accounts where you have to querry the server for new e-mails once in a while, gmail actually sends information to your phone when you get an email. And this wouldn't be possible if the connection was turned off.
And if you don't want to use gmail or gtalk, just disable background data in android's data sync settings and the 3g module won't eat your battery when unneeded. Don't worry, android is much smarter with power management than winMo and the fact that you didn't disable something by hand doesn't mean that it's eating your battery.
It's like GPS - even if it;s turned on in options/on power control wigdet the module isn't physically powered up until an app requests to use it. And when it's done the module powers down again. But still you see people disabling gps support in options after exiting maps believing that it will save some battery, or even requesting an app that would disable the switch on power control wigdet.
So just remember - it's a different OS, it has different rules and the fact that you did something by hand in winMo doesn't mean you have to do it here.
Youtube is a epic fail. In the exact same place, with the exact same simcard I just can't load a movie. They all stop after 3 seconds and don't load further. Also there is no option for always having HQ. The WiMo app had this and I could always load HQ movies without trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, this seems to be a problem with your rom/app version. I (and many other people) don't have any trouble with YT on android.
As for the HQ, it's turned on automatically when you're on wifi, on a gsm connection it defaults to standard quality. Personally i like this behavior but i agree that there should be an option to change that for people with huge/unlimited data plans.
But it gets even worse when it comes to much more practical things. The browser won't save exchange webmail login info. So now I'm expected to loging like 5 times a day to my uni mail by typing my info every time? Not nice.
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Click to collapse
Weird, but also not android bug, just the browser. You might want to try some alternatives (like dolphin, skyfire, opera mini)
And what about displaying agenda items? can't do that on the lockscreen. There are apps to do this but not on the htc sense one as far as I've seen. So I have to manually check my agenda which is just a ***** because I'm just to seeing things come up on the homescreen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, and since when does WinMo display the agenda without any additional software? But i agree, htc really should make some "upcomming events" widget, and default android could use one as well. For now i use "CalWidget" and i know of "pure calendar widget" (paid). I don't know it they're compatible with sense but it may be worth a try
Also I can't login to the uni website. You should get a login popup but the android browser doesnt seem to be capable of this. Ofcourse this was no problem at all with a 2 year old browser... So now I can't check schedules and all.
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Click to collapse
Again, hard to blame android for that. Some alternative browser might help (maybe opera mini?).
Also there is no way to stream my favorite internet radio station.
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Click to collapse
There is no way to do that or maybe you just don't know a way to do it? Try DroidLive (it might even have this station in its database) or StreamFurious. Both have usable free versions.
Don't get me wrong, I love the speed and all but what good is speed to me if I can't use most of the functions that are important to me? What is even more disturbing is that non of the things I want to do are very special. This should all just work but it seems to be far above what android is capable of.
Basically to me android is a disfunctional OS. If the above things would work, I'd love it but now all I got is speed, but no way of doing the things I want.
Nice try, but not quite it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, seems to me that you don't really have a problem with android but you just got screwed by HTC and their customized version of android
If i were you, i'd just look for an unofficial rom. It might actually fix all your problems.
Also, part of your woes seems to be the fact that you knew winMo, knew the tweaks and apps you needed to make the device do what you want. Going over to android is a fresh start where you have to find out everything again. I know, i had similar feelings on a stock rom on my G1 after being a hardcore winMo user But after some research and grabbing a new rom and few extra apps android is way more functional than winMo for me and i don't feel like ever going back.
Just give it a chance and do some research.
Android platform has to mature a lot.
WM without xda is a hell.
You really need to find a new ROM. I've never had one single issue you're talking about.
Edit: And I'm using a myTouch running 1.6.
mr_deimos said:
That's hardly Android error - it just seems to be a bug in the mail client app. Maybe yry another one?
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Click to collapse
Could be, though I doubt that. But I might try a different one.
It's not as simple as it sounds
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I know all that. But for me it does not seem to work perfectly. If I disable data connection always on (I never actually completely disable it), it still leaves it open. I checked overnight compared with just totally disabling it and it made a clear difference in the battery charge left. Its not like GPS where the icon actally dissapears when you don't use it but this doesnt happen with 3g so far as I can see it, it still uses more power than when disabling it.
I understand all the google stuff needs it, but I don't use any of it so for me its rather useless.
Again, this seems to be a problem with your rom/app version. I (and many other people) don't have any trouble with YT on android.
As for the HQ, it's turned on automatically when you're on wifi, on a gsm connection it defaults to standard quality. Personally i like this behavior but i agree that there should be an option to change that for people with huge/unlimited data plans.
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I did some more reachers on this and the problems seems to exist on a lot of different models/rom versions. I got the latest 2.1 rom for legend so I should have the latest (v1.5 I believe).
Weird, but also not android bug, just the browser. You might want to try some alternatives (like dolphin, skyfire, opera mini)
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Click to collapse
I reacherd a bit more and it seems to be a IIS and android problem. Wm and Iphone have the same problem but they just ignore the IIS message and continue. I tried Opera and it has the same problem. Btw, I think Opera on android is a long way off from Opera on WM. Still missing lots of functions I think.
IIS problem for the website login btw. Not sure why the exchange site doesnt save credentials but that seems to be misconfiguration. For example it wont even work on most desktop browsers either.
Okay, and since when does WinMo display the agenda without any additional software? But i agree, htc really should make some "upcomming events" widget, and default android could use one as well. For now i use "CalWidget" and i know of "pure calendar widget" (paid). I don't know it they're compatible with sense but it may be worth a try
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes ofcourse with extra software I will try the apps you posted. Thanks.
There is no way to do that or maybe you just don't know a way to do it? Try DroidLive (it might even have this station in its database) or StreamFurious. Both have usable free versions.
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Click to collapse
Thats the problem. They work with their own databases. I just want to load a .pls or m3u file in a player and have it connect.
Well, seems to me that you don't really have a problem with android but you just got screwed by HTC and their customized version of android
If i were you, i'd just look for an unofficial rom. It might actually fix all your problems.
Also, part of your woes seems to be the fact that you knew winMo, knew the tweaks and apps you needed to make the device do what you want. Going over to android is a fresh start where you have to find out everything again. I know, i had similar feelings on a stock rom on my G1 after being a hardcore winMo user But after some research and grabbing a new rom and few extra apps android is way more functional than winMo for me and i don't feel like ever going back.
Just give it a chance and do some research.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you are right. I know everything about WM and for me android still has a lot of things beneath its skin I don't know. If the apps I want exist I could fix some of my problems.
But some problems are just android related. The whole website thing is a combination of android and IIS configuration that don't play nice. Nothing HTC can do about this, nor can any custom rom. Its something google needs to fix. Ofcourse, if my uni would change their IIS settings it could also fix the problem but I don't think I can get them to change settings just for me.
For me that really needs to work because its a daily function for me.
Also I wonder if some things can be done. For example in WM you can just select to only use your provider. I still havn't found a way to completely disable roaming on android. Fortunatly its easy to prevent data roaming.
Hello, I recently got a Motorola Defy for renewing my contact.
This is my first Smartphone and the first time I seriously try to understand connection standards, data plans and avoid hidden costs.
I don't have a data plan, and I don't intend to get one. I don't need to be online on the go and I'd rather avoid the costs. I neither want nor need all the social networking and internet apps and I'll uninstall them after rooting it anyway.
So:
Which of the connections (GPS, Bluetooth, Wifi, 3G should be all) will cost me extra? As far as I understand it, it only costs me when my phone tries to connect to the Internet via 3G, correct? So I can use my home wifi to access the internet without paying any off-plan fees, right?
And if that's true, can I just disable that somewhere (i.e. something like settings > network > only use wifi for internet) or do I have to deny every program 3G-internet access individually?
What about programs that use GPS (planetarium programs, navigational programs, etc)?
I figure that you'd need a internet connection to download updates, maps, etc. but do I need to pay for the positioning service itself?
And for my second question:
As I mentioned, I plan to root (already debranded it) my phone and install a shell. I already did some research on the forums and generally know what to do.
However due to security reasons I'd like to be just a normal user in day-to-day use.
How do I achieve this at best? just unroot with z4root and re-root when needed? could malware access z4root and give itself root privileges? Or can I use sudo with a password prompt as default user instead of su?
Oh and another little question, can I install programs manually with "install xyz.apk" from a shell on the phone or can I only do that from a remote machine with adb? and can I find the "apps" online in apk format? Because I'd prefer to avoid official marketplaces, app shops and whatnot.
Thirdly, the UI:
The Motorola Defy came with motoblur (at least I think that's the UI) and it's not exactly great. What do I look for when I want alternatives? Are the different "launchers" the UI? Or are they something else?
Thanks in advance,
Ligatur
Excuse me, but a smartphone without data is like a car without wheels. Still useful i'm sure but you're missing a lot of functionality!
Would it be worth selling the smartphone? If you got it for free then it's a decent profit, especially if you have an older device that you could use instead.
EDIT: Analogy changed to protect the innocent
Sure, I'll miss some things, but Android is more "open" and closer to a classical computer than standard cellphone OS environments. Additionally the developer/hacking community is larger than for individual phones and for me, that's worth a lot.
More than the money I'd get from selling it.
Besides, I still use some functions (GPS, compass) and I only needed it because my old phone kicked the bucket.
And I still can get apps, offline maps, etc from my home wifi.
For the sake of the easily offended, I don't think I will perpetuate your analogy, though .
I've put off getting a smartphone as long as possible, but did enough research that I think the Triumph on Virgin's $35 plan with Google voice is a smart way to go. I still have some questions about this new OS, programs, and environment, and really like the smart people on this forum, and hope you won't mind a few questions.
-What’s the best VOIP app for working with Google Voice? I've come across GrooVe IP, but would like reassurance whether it's the best option. I'd like to make calls over wifi, but I'd also like to know whether Virgin Mobile's 3g coverage is fast enough for voip (generally...). I wouldn't want to do this routinely as I'd be afraid they'd throttle me. But I would like someone who knows to share their opinion.
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
-If I wanted the option, how (specifically) would I switch from making a voip/data plan outgoing call to the regular phone cell plan? Would Android be smart enough to do this automatically without a wifi signal? Or would I need to change a setting in Google Voice? Any thoughts most appreciated.
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
-I have a mac. I’m guessing most of the programs that let you manage files, root the phone, install Cyanogen mods, etc, are PC based. I found Android File Transfer, but am not clear on it's limits. Are there better options? What will the AFT program be good for? [Emulating PC’s is a pain I would rather avoid, but I have been thinking of running virtual box to donate some processing time to the Large Hadron Collider, so I might be able to run some of these PC programs]. Any advice most welcome.
-Any skins or options to turn the google apps into light text on dark background? (I'm aware of and have used the option in Gmail). I hate black text on white background. I'm kooky that way.
This Android phone is good looking, the plan costs much less than a thousand a year (which I refuse to pay), and I LOVE the Google voice options to turn your text and calls into computer files which you can archive as you wish. The Google voice activation / text / search is far superior to iAnything, voip/wifi is the balls, and I think a lot people who've been holding off from getting a smartphone will jump on this combo, and this thread may help them. Many thanks...
dcnblues said:
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With respect to these questions, I'm not an expert, but I'll provide a list of programs I use.
For WiFi signal strength, I'd recommend Wifi Analyzer from the Market. For 3G strength, I'd recommend Cellumap. For GPS Strength, GPS Status + Toolbox or GPS Test.
The manual for the phone can be found on either the VMUSA or Motorola web site. It will explain some of the icons. Although when using the phone, I often see stuff not explained in the manual.
For examining the phone's processes, I recommend SystemPanel from the Market (paid for version has history), and/or Android Status.
There are people that tell you NOT to kill anything on the Android OS manually. I use 1Tap Cleaner and Advanced Task Killer from the market if I see the phone behaving a bit sluggish. Android OS loads stuff in memory readying it for future use. How it does so (intelligently) I don't know. I see stuff being partially loaded I never use. I have never had a problem using either program.
YMMV
GrooveIP works great over 3g...I dunno how much we will be able to use it once they start capping data..bastards
dcnblues said:
-What’s the best VOIP app for working with Google Voice? I've come across GrooVe IP, but would like reassurance whether it's the best option. I'd like to make calls over wifi, but I'd also like to know whether Virgin Mobile's 3g coverage is fast enough for voip (generally...). I wouldn't want to do this routinely as I'd be afraid they'd throttle me. But I would like someone who knows to share their opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GrooVe IP is actually the only thing i've bothered to use because it worked well enough, I havn't put it to test over 3g... In the future, you can root the phone and update it to sprint PRL (Their towers instead of VMU) - People have reported up to like 6-900kbps doing this... I would suggest to not factor this last suggestion in yet as you won't be extremely comfortable with your first smart phone being messed with (But a possibility nonetheless)
dcnblues said:
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will back the suggestion of wifi analyzer, it will map out locations of wifi/cellular tower, it gave me beef on another phone that ran @ 600mhz but this one is 1000mhz.
dcnblues said:
-If I wanted the option, how (specifically) would I switch from making a voip/data plan outgoing call to the regular phone cell plan? Would Android be smart enough to do this automatically without a wifi signal? Or would I need to change a setting in Google Voice? Any thoughts most appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With grooveip and google voice it will ask you on all outbound calls after you press dial: Would you like to make this call with.... A) non-Google Voice B) Google Voice (same story w/ sending an sms except it will ask when you create the sms because google voice has it's own sms application, keep in mind w/ gvoice you can forward calls to your google chat account (and that's what makes grooveip ring instead of forwarding the call to your cellular number[i think])
dcnblues said:
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are tons of application managers and task killers, I recommend to ignore all of them.... Someone brought a Samsung Prevail(Boost mobile Galaxy) into work the other day(Radioshack) - Anytime they killed tasks their touchscreen went out till reboot.... Android is supposed to self manage tasks and processes... realistically you just have to make sure not to leave your bluetooth wifi and gps on all the time... Also taking the screen brightness down a fuzz from max will help batt life tremendously... Android will suspend a process and kill an activity when you return to homescreen.... What I mean by that is that if you're in the browser and you hit home then you go back to the browser, you're on the same page still... but likely not to have any of your text still there if you were in an input field.... (This is probably an inaccurate example due to programmers being able to add a save activity state [this is something that when you for example hit back or hold the home button down to switch applications will store your current information, so when you're editing the text field it will save that data, THEN kill the activity/suspend it so that when you return it is still there, but the process is not draining the battery down at the moment.])
One of androids key attributes is the quick application switching via holding down the home button but some applications like pandora will run 'ongoing' so that you can multitask, while others will suspend so that you can save battery.... Kind of as a rule of thumb, unless it is monitoring or actively outputting it will be suspended.... so apps like pandora and wifi tethering continue to function when you switch applications because tehy'er ongoing whereas a note editor application would suspend itself untill it's brought back to focus because how are you going to type without it forefront?
dcnblues said:
-I have a mac. I’m guessing most of the programs that let you manage files, root the phone, install Cyanogen mods, etc, are PC based. I found Android File Transfer, but am not clear on it's limits. Are there better options? What will the AFT program be good for? [Emulating PC’s is a pain I would rather avoid, but I have been thinking of running virtual box to donate some processing time to the Large Hadron Collider, so I might be able to run some of these PC programs].
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Click to collapse
First off nice LHC Mac joke I take it we're running the server edition cause hey, more is never enough.
I honestly can't tell you much from the mac POV other than that it would hopefully work the same as the linux instructions but i kind of expect version/dependency differences... to be fair this triumph is rootable by application ran on the phone (Which you can GMail to yourself and download as attatchment, bluetooth, wifi shared folder, usb mounting, or download directly to the phone..) The custom recovery is installed via drag and drop on USB Removable Disc so it's not nearly as bad as some of the other phones would be,
dcnblues said:
-Any skins or options to turn the google apps into light text on dark background? (I'm aware of and have used the option in Gmail). I hate black text on white background. I'm kooky that way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel free to, they exist, I would however suggest against them... I walk to work a lot and it's a pain in the ass to read those emails when you have the sun on the screen; granted everything is harder this was damn near impossible... Nonetheless check for the black apps listed in xda/android/themes and apps... I'll link soon. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1206774
dcnblues said:
This Android phone is good looking, the plan costs much less than a thousand a year (which I refuse to pay), and I LOVE the Google voice options to turn your text and calls into computer files which you can archive as you wish. The Google voice activation / text / search is far superior to iAnything, voip/wifi is the balls, and I think a lot people who've been holding off from getting a smartphone will jump on this combo, and this thread may help them. Many thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to point out that with the GVoice extension/app for google chrome
you can continue your SMS conversations that way... I recieved one of the CR48s and this has been AWESOME for me.
As far as voip services, I have found using 3g too slow. That said I do recommend sipdroid. It will setup a pbx account for you using your google voice number. Upon connecting to wifi, sipdroid will start running allowing you to make and receive calls.
Sent from my MOTWX435KT using XDA App
Thanks guys for the very useful help. I'm kind of burned out on all the research, and kind of bummed that this red-hot, billion dollar business seems to be run by such morons. SO many unnecessary complications to offering consumers simple, workable products and services.
This has been a great help.
bigvandal said:
GrooveIP works great over 3g...I dunno how much we will be able to use it once they start capping data..bastards
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Click to collapse
I'm actually kind of grateful to Virgin Mobile for the $35 dollar plan. I can communicate via voice to text, for a fair price, so until I have a real problem, I'm not going to call them bastards. Until I have a problem, of course...
I do hate the BS in advertising 'unlimited' plans, but having them smirking in their headquarters as they say to themselves 'but we didn't say at what rate...'
On the other hand, people downloading movies over cell frequencies aren't exactly providing solutions to the problem either...
rubbachicken said:
GrooVe IP is actually the only thing i've bothered to use because it worked well enough, I havn't put it to test over 3g... In the future, you can root the phone and update it to sprint PRL (Their towers instead of VMU) - People have reported up to like 6-900kbps doing this... I would suggest to not factor this last suggestion in yet as you won't be extremely comfortable with your first smart phone being messed with (But a possibility nonetheless)...Android is supposed to self manage tasks and processes... realistically you just have to make sure not to leave your bluetooth wifi and gps on all the time... Also taking the screen brightness down a fuzz from max will help batt life tremendously... Android will suspend a process and kill an activity when you return to homescreen....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, thanks very much. For this and all the information. Colossally useful.
Groove IP is actually having a problem today due to some change in the Google servers. Hope it's resolved soon as I'd like to get this running.
Quick confirm: Triumph is LCD and not AMOLED, Correct?
Hi, I've been trying to find a decent IRC app for wp7. Sadly no luck to date. There's a number of fairly great ones in the marketplace - WPirc looks great and most of the time works great as well.
But it has one problem that I've currently noticed in all other apps. It doesn't have a background agent so when I switch out of it, it automatically disconnects me from the network I'm on. Same thing when the lockscreen goes over it.
Does anyone know an IRC app, even paid, that doesn't do this? Not talking about disconnecting on the lockscreen if connection over wifi. Just disconnecting when not in focus.
No luck on this one
Unfortunately, the current 'Mango' version of Windows Phone does not allow 'true' background processes to give you real time updates of anything. So don't expect anything like you are asking to appear in the marketplace soon.
The best any developer can do at this moment is to create an app that checks for new messages every 30 minutes for a very brief time. And even then, the app is only allowed to give you a small toast message, but never open (or put in focus) the application by itself.
Well, it is permissible for apps to continue running under the lock screen (although MS is very strict about when they allow an app to use that permission, I think chat apps qualify). Real background processing is actually possible - the phone runs a fully multitasking OS - but the official APIs don't allow it.
GoodDayToDie said:
Well, it is permissible for apps to continue running under the lock screen .... Real background processing is actually possible - .
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Click to collapse
Yes, but to stay on-topic I read the question as 'Are there any apps in the marketplace that allow me to run IRC in the background, supporting multitasking (staying connected) even if I use other apps'. From that perspective the answer is unfortunately no.
You can use ZNC and keep a persistent connection going on a remote computer, which will save and replay the conversation when you lose connection. You can also couple SuperToasty with the ZNCPush plugin I've forked at github (I have to update my branch and poke the dev to pull the fork.) to push alert you when someone mentions you, PM's you etc.
Any of the IRC clients in the market should work fine with this setup... though, I haven't tried.
I have googled and searched my fingertips to the bone. Whenever i ask a technical question, i get answers from the clueless and the blind. I am beginning to hate this game.
So here we go. Stock android 4.4.2 ....rooted. How do you control which apps autostart and load in the background? Right now I have been trying to kill the Music app. Nothing works. It always restarts. So that means there is a sticky setting in some file somewhere in the system that needs to be edited that more than likely can not properrly be controlled from the childish controls android offers. In windows this is controlled in the registry and the startup process. Where is this in android? Why does no one share this information?
Yes i know it's dangerous. Yes i know not to putts around in the operating system. But if youre rooted, give us the data to control things.
So i await a learned response that probaly only one of the "developers" can answer. Because it sure as s€£%t ain't out there to be found.
Signed, royally frustrated
I'm reminded of that saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Not sure why your posts are so charged but many seasoned developers and posters aren't going to engage in conversation with someone who uses condesending and self righteous tones.
I've never seen detailed posting of how it works, nor do I care to know, but by installing Greenify you can effectively control what you wish to control. Greenify allows you to hibernate applications keeping them asleep until manually called.
Some applications have associated services that are used by other parts of the system or other applications and therefore stay loaded to provide that service. If you also install Xposed Framework it will allow Greenify to inject itself further to keep applications that you choose to hibernate from being called upon by other applications (facebook for example has services that often get called upon by other applications for various reasons and so it can be hard to keep hibernated).
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muzzy996 said:
I'm reminded of that saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Not sure why your posts are so charged but many seasoned developers and posters aren't going to engage in conversation with someone who uses condesending and self righteous tones.
I've never seen detailed posting of how it works, nor do I care to know, but by installing Greenify you can effectively control what you wish to control. Greenify allows you to hibernate applications keeping them asleep until manually called.
Some applications have associated services that are used by other parts of the system or other applications and therefore stay loaded to provide that service. If you also install Xposed Framework it will allow Greenify to inject itself further to keep applications that you choose to hibernate from being called upon by other applications (facebook for example has services that often get called upon by other applications for various reasons and so it can be hard to keep hibernated).
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry. I did not intentionally want to come off as charged or spraying vinegar. Quite the opposite. But I have found, after reading tons of post, that we are living in the land of the blind and hardly anyone with sight is actually participating or for that matter even providing a modicum of usefull data. Beginning to think that I don't blame them.
It seems, after deep searching and research that children are actually in charge. What other explanation can you give for an operating system that is struggling with "basic" features found in DOS or windows 3.1 from 20 years ago. Similar to the slow evolution of linux, itself which only now, barely, is win xp like in its features after decades as a skeletal nightmare to load and setup.
You may not have caught the news a few months ago, but Samsung was floating the idea of abandoning android for a flavored and skinned version of linux for future devices, both phones and tablets.p, starting with the China market.
Tell me that Microsoft did not head that off by providing reciprocal licensing to Samsung for windows 10 to abandoning linux. Would not be suprised if we start seeing win10 handsets in the near future here.
Once android looses support from major manufacturers, then it is DEAD.
Read every other post and you will see the lament about the quality of google store apps.
So when I ask a specific, technical question requiring a precise answer.....which requires actual proframming skill.....which has yet to appear...you can see how the lack of response to that colors the situation.
If I offended anyone, I apologize. I get excited sometimes. Repeatedly slamming ones head against the wall, figuratively tends to make you anxious.
At this rate, my raw participation on these boards may be curtailed if I continue with this sense of useless effort.
Sorry to make anyone upset. You can let the kids back in the room. I think there is ice cream.
Have you considered freezing the processes you want to prevent from running with Titanium Backup?
ShadowLea said:
Have you considered freezing the processes you want to prevent from running with Titanium Backup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Titanium backup would work. The other option since you are rooted is to just remove the offending music app. I don't mind the samsung music app, but I don't find it absolutely necessary either. You could also uninstall the updates and force stop the app. That should also keep it from starting.
Another option that I haven't looked at completely but might work is the app "tasker" that lets you assign certain apps to start only when you want them too. So you could have the music app start only when you tap on media files. But I haven't tried this myself.
The problem currently with asking technical questions about the note pro is that it's a low selling device from 2014 so it just doesn't get much action on the forums anymore. It's a bummer for such a great device but that's how it is.
mjkurke said:
Titanium backup would work. The other option since you are rooted is to just remove the offending music app. I don't mind the samsung music app, but I don't find it absolutely necessary either. You could also uninstall the updates and force stop the app. That should also keep it from starting.
Another option that I haven't looked at completely but might work is the app "tasker" that lets you assign certain apps to start only when you want them too. So you could have the music app start only when you tap on media files. But I haven't tried this myself.
The problem currently with asking technical questions about the note pro is that it's a low selling device from 2014 so it just doesn't get much action on the forums anymore. It's a bummer for such a great device but that's how it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low selling are not the words. More like abandoned. Samsung has moved away. My questions where android specific. "Freezing" apps, using a convoluted set of more apps to control unwanted apps, ridiculous. It is all ridiculous. Either root gives control or it does not.
I want full control, what runs, what doesn't, what runs in the background. Is that not why we root? So a comprehensive list of whats what WOULD RREEEAAAALLLLYYY HELP.
I am alone in the wilderness screaming at the trees demanding to know why it rains.
Do you understand?
Options like freezing in Titanium or using Greenify have already been addressed. Tasker is good for starting things but not so good at keeping things killed, not the proper tool to use for the job of keeping apps from loading.
My strategy:
1) Freeze anything that's safe to freeze that I know I'll never use in Titanium first. That way they never pre-cache into memory.
2) Greenify applications that I rarely use so that they don't pre-cache, taking care not to greenify applications that need to stay loaded to operate properly (like email clients, weather apps or messaging apps).
In the end on a clean boot my application/precache list is full of my commonly used apps. I worry not about how much free RAM I have, as long as the list of apps in RAM/cache is populated with the stuff that I commonly use.
NOW, all of that said if you're looking for something that works like windows startup manager then installing Xposed Framework and then BootManager is the way to go. I've done this in the past but find that employing freezing and greenify is good enough for my own needs so I've stopped.
globalsearch said:
Low selling are not the words. More like abandoned. Samsung has moved away. My questions where android specific. "Freezing" apps, using a convoluted set of more apps to control unwanted apps, ridiculous. It is all ridiculous. Either root gives control or it does not.
I want full control, what runs, what doesn't, what runs in the background. Is that not why we root? So a comprehensive list of whats what WOULD RREEEAAAALLLLYYY HELP.
I am alone in the wilderness screaming at the trees demanding to know why it rains.
Do you understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am starting to suspect you have greatly misunderstood the meaning of root access. From what it sounds like, you seem to think it miraculously gives you access to settings and functions that non-rooted users can't see. Which is why you can't seem to get the answers you seek.
There is no such thing as a root-menu. Android does not have that functionality build into its GUI.
Root access simply means administrator access to the system's root directories. Hence the word Root.
You will always need additional apps and software to root access to change functionality. Titanium Backup, Xposed, SuperUser/SuperSU, etcetera.
If you want those options in the system, you'll need a customROM.
ShadowLea said:
Root access simply means administrator access to the system's root directories. Hence the word Root.
You will always need additional apps and software to root access to change functionality. Titanium Backup, Xposed, SuperUser/SuperSU, etcetera.
If you want those options in the system, you'll need a customROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right and even with a custom ROM you can't run away from using 3rd party utilities to make the tweaks. Custom is usually a good start though as they are typically debloated. Civato's is good for lightly modified stock with xposed baked in.
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Now we are getting somewhere. So what you have all told me is that stock android, even when rooted, is still a sandbox with all kinds of limitations to customization. Even with apps to tweak some of it.
This is the nail in the coffin for me and android then. Im not in the least interested in all those custom roms where there is always some shortcoming or lack of support for a feature that does not work properly.
Thanks all. I am done.
globalsearch said:
Now we are getting somewhere. So what you have all told me is that stock android, even when rooted, is still a sandbox with all kinds of limitations to customization. Even with apps to tweak some of it.
This is the nail in the coffin for me and android then. Im not in the least interested in all those custom roms where there is always some shortcoming or lack of support for a feature that does not work properly.
Thanks all. I am done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for what its worth I do have your answer, better late than never right?
anyways android is built on a linux kernal and normally access to the linux command line does not come pre-installed to keep normal people from messing up their system.
so you will need to download a terminal emulator app if you don't already have one if you plan to do this from android. (Alternatively you can do it from the android debug bridge while connected to a computer if preferred)
First you will want to get the package name for the app you want to disable.
you can do this with a root file browser app by going to system / Data / App and then finding the package you want to disable.
however since it sounds like you want to do this manually we will go over the terminal process:
open a terminal window.
type: su
Hit: enter
the terminal will ask you for root access, go ahead and grant it.
to list the android packages type: pm list packages
hit: enter
This will show a list of the installed packages (Apps)
find the ones you want to disable.
now type: pm disable insertpackagename
hit: enter
for example to disable youtube type: pm disable com.google.android.youtube
Hit: Enter
that's it.
you will likely want to restart your launcher or even just restart the tablet afterwards as most launchers don't constantly poll for disabled apps so it will need a refresh.
also you probably already realise this so I apologise if its redundant but make sure you know what you are disabling
as with any linux environment disabling system packages and packages that another application is dependant on can cause trouble.
firefly6240 said:
for what its worth I do have your answer, better late than never right?
anyways android is built on a linux kernal and normally access to the linux command line does not come pre-installed to keep normal people from messing up their system.
so you will need to download a terminal emulator app if you don't already have one if you plan to do this from android. (Alternatively you can do it from the android debug bridge while connected to a computer if preferred)
First you will want to get the package name for the app you want to disable.
you can do this with a root file browser app by going to system / Data / App and then finding the package you want to disable.
however since it sounds like you want to do this manually we will go over the terminal process:
open a terminal window.
type: su
Hit: enter
the terminal will ask you for root access, go ahead and grant it.
to list the android packages type: pm list packages
hit: enter
This will show a list of the installed packages (Apps)
find the ones you want to disable.
now type: pm disable insertpackagename
hit: enter
for example to disable youtube type: pm disable com.google.android.youtube
Hit: Enter
that's it.
you will likely want to restart your launcher or even just restart the tablet afterwards as most launchers don't constantly poll for disabled apps so it will need a refresh.
also you probably already realise this so I apologise if its redundant but make sure you know what you are disabling
as with any linux environment disabling system packages and packages that another application is dependant on can cause trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
globalsearch said:
Low selling are not the words. More like abandoned. Samsung has moved away. My questions where android specific. "Freezing" apps, using a convoluted set of more apps to control unwanted apps, ridiculous. It is all ridiculous. Either root gives control or it does not.
I want full control, what runs, what doesn't, what runs in the background. Is that not why we root? So a comprehensive list of whats what WOULD RREEEAAAALLLLYYY HELP.
I am alone in the wilderness screaming at the trees demanding to know why it rains.
Do you understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just thought I would clarify a bit here, I know how confusing it can be coming from windows, I made the switch myself not so many years ago and had a lot of the same questions.
to explain root, the closest comparison I have imperfect as it may be is that root access is similar to windows admin access.
the noticeable difference in a lot of cases is what comes pre-installed.
for example in windows if you have an admin account it automatically unlocks access to the command prompt which was already pre-installed.
in android root access gives you the option to use a terminal but often one is not pre-installed, in fact even a file manager is often not included.
this is actually not a limitation of android so much as a limitation put in place by the specific device manufacturer as to what comes pre-installed.
for example a lot of cheap android tablets running google AOSP (Android open source Project) code actually do come with terminal apps and in some cases even come pre-loaded with root access.
in comparison a lot of more well known devices do not come with this pre-loaded to prevent people from breaking things. (For a windows comparison, its hard to delete the system32 folder without admin access, a file browser and command prompt right?)
As far as samsung abandonment, its a bit trickier there.
Basically what you would normally be used to is the Microsoft scenario.
1. Microsoft - Microsoft makes the OS but it runs on hardware made by others.
a. hardware issues go to the hardware manufacturer for as long as they support it.
b. OS updates are handled by Microsoft, they have more or less full control of the OS as it is closed source.
2. the Samsung Scenario - The hardware is made by the manufacturer, the bootloaders are locked, the OS is made by Google and then tweaked by the manufacturer.
a. all official updates come through the manufacturer (In this case Samsung) after google releases the open source code, samsung then alters it as they like and then they release an update.
b. Samsung is the sole support for the hardware and software as google no longer supports the software for the most part after its been altered.
c. it takes a lot of time and work for samsung to develop an update and push it out and then deal with all of the issues that come with updating the OS.
d. its often easier to leave a device that comparatively very few people bought on an OS that they knew was usable rather than spend all the time and money updating it and dealing with all of the related issues.
With that in mind this tablet has been out for about 2 years now which is a huge amount of time for this type of hardware.
All that being said Samsung very recently released the update to android 5.1.1 for this tablet
so it is definitely not abandoned yet, in fact its had more attention than even other devices by the same manufacturer but I suspect 5.1.1 will be the last official update we see.
if you have one of the note variants with an unlockable bootloader as well as a bit of time on your hands I would very much recommend trying a custom rom if you are worried about samsung abandonment.
you may have to try several different ones though, as you'll find a mix of roms that may seem almost half baked, more alpha release style but are cutting edge (I like those ones myself) to roms that are even more stable than the original.
My apologies if some of this is redundant information, I just thought I would throw in my two cents in case it helps
Two points . . for what its worth . . 1) the use of package manager's disable command effectively does the same thing that freezing in Titanium does, the main difference being that you're using a GUI to do it (there can be differences in how the apps are flagged though and using the pm command means not having to rely on yet another app); 2) disabling/freezing means you'll be unable to ever launch said application unless you enable the app again manually (using the package manager PM commands or Titanium).
Main reason in my initial response I didn't go straight to freezing/disabling apps is because that approach isn't exactly the same thing as managing startup in the context of the example given about managing what apps start up on boot in Windows (i.e. msconfig command and unchecking startup options). When someone takes an app out of startup in Windows the software isn't permanently disabled (unavailable) it is merely prevented from preloading when the system is started. So . . in reference to the music app referred to in the original post, if the goal is to be able to use the stock music app but just not have it load itself into memory on its own then the solution isnt disabling it or freezing it, its to hibernate it with something like Greenify or prevent it from starting using something like Boot Manager and Xposed Framework.
Firefly6240 got exactly what I was asking for. Freezing and hybernating, et al, is not total control. When i kill an app and i want it gone. I want it gone. Example, the google music, google books and google films. I gave stopped, killed even "uninstalled" in Purify and in Kingroot. On random reboot, the buggers are back. Fireflys solution is ceasars thumbs down. Wonderful. He understood the TOTAL control I was looking for.
Also, i loaded android terminal to run the commands.
By the way, Knox and EML are next on my list.
Thanks again firefly6420
globalsearch said:
Firefly6240 got exactly what I was asking for. Freezing and hybernating, et al, is not total control. When i kill an app and i want it gone. I want it gone. Example, the google music, google books and google films. I gave stopped, killed even "uninstalled" in Purify and in Kingroot. On random reboot, the buggers are back. Fireflys solution is ceasars thumbs down. Wonderful. He understood the TOTAL control I was looking for.
Also, i loaded android terminal to run the commands.
By the way, Knox and EML are next on my list.
Thanks again firefly6420
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK good, then I misunderstood the question. Hibernation has its place, it's just not what you wanted, you wanted complete uninstallation basically.
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like it or not, OEMs, even Google cannot just give the public ready-made controls to such things because the way a lot of (non-essential but) pre-installed apps are designed they depends on other apps being present and/or running.
AppOps was a classic example cuz once ppl found it and made public how to take advantage, a lot of dependant apps and services were affected and people called in to their OEMs complaining of broken phones when it was simply tinkered permissions.
there is no mobile OS more robust than android. all have their forms of depth, appeal, features and restrictions but none embrace admin access & leaving open the ability to do it more than android (just need the carrier and sometimes OEM to leave the bootloader the hell alone lol)
if you want a smartphone with admin privileges out-of-the-box and full control of all system services etc, I would recommend an Ubuntu phone. they're about a year into commercial availability which is still kinda fringe but stable and will lack certain major perks of owning either iOS (yuck!) or Android. there is a couple Ubuntu/android dual boot phones out there too, and that comes with the issue of storage space after holding 2 OS's
in another year or 2 Ubuntu phones should be more plentiful and bring over some popular apps and active development but I don't anticipate seeing it take off quite like other mobile OS's cuz when it comes to feeding the masses, more options and less restrictions can have the same effect as asking an 80 year old to put in an address on your navigation in the car while you're on the highway. it's a learning curve simple to some that seems too simple not to understand but can be bad for business.
I think android and iOS beat this problem initially because when they started, there weren't any other well-established alternatives. BlackBerry and some fringe PDAs were about it...
Note pro 12.2
I was/am dealing with the Note Pro 12.2 specifically. Not other handsets. This device is coming up on two years and support has been waning. When I bought it all was well. Less than a few months later the damned KitKat update came and suddenly I found myself without proper access to the external sd card, that had worked perfectly when i purchased the unit. I was furious. Especially when we where being told that it was for our own good and google was pushing internal memory over external. Damn them. I bought samsung BECAUSE it had the sd slot. And when Samsung did not provide the fix to the platform.xml file I was livid. 5.01 came out and Samsung destoyed support for most external blue tooth keyboards. And so it goes, one stupid blunder after another. Their updates destroyed my workflow.
So yes, damned right I want full control of my device, because they have shown they have NO regard for our needs and DO NOT ADDRESS our concerns. Just buy our stuff and shut up. Well in this case, i was sold a product that they later incapacitated.
I can not abide with that. I tried so hard not to root, for a year and a half. I shut off automatic updates on EVERYTHING because even updates from google play would sometimes destroy a goid priducy. I started saving apks from versions of apps that worked. I stayed stock 4.4.2 because everything worked but the sd write. How many threads do we have here where people upgraded to marshmellow and then begged to get back to kitkat? Last week after reading thread after thread of problems and convoluted fixes and a gazillion rom versions each of which has its own imperfections and then reading that the new samsung tablet was released windows 10. I knew it was over.
At that moment the decision was inevitable. I rooted and IMMEDIATELY fixed the sd write issue. And i unrooted. Two days of random reboots and i roited again, this time to take the bull by the hirns and control this thing. I became increasingly frustrated with the lack of displayed technical knowledge here at xda and the tons pf advice from also clueless posters. I tried everything. Even got scolded by an admin who has been here less time than me. (Follow the rules, follow the rules...don't you dare to ask the important questions)
Not till the reply from firefly6240. Now he knows something. And he shared a little with me. Which i greatly appreciated. I have a direction now. And the tweaks I have done have increased my battery tije, the screen reojse time and overall improvement of the environment. All on 4.4.2.
I still have some minor issues, but google and android code monkeys WILL NO LONGER CONTROL MY DEVICE, MY PROPERTY.
It is time people take control of the ELECTRONIC items which we purchase with OUR hard earned money and stop letting manufacturers turn those devices into nothing more than sales portals to make more money and deny us control or the ability to JUST SAY NO.