Related
I know most of the devs here list this info, but some others still do not, and it really makes the place look messy, and means the first few pages will simply be people asking the questions.
I think people should post as a minimum, the following things.
Subject, should state if this is a ROM, RADIO, EXT ROM, then the OS, then the device, and the date of release, and the developer, such as "ROM WM6 Universal June 21st 2007 AlanJC"
ROM name
ROM developer
ROM version
Device the ROM is for (since people seatch the whole forum, and regularly think it is for their device when it's not) perhaps formatted as wm6universal, wm6wizard, wm2003sealpine and so on to help with searches
OS Build & version info
ROM source (such as OEM build from another device, or another dev's work that's been modified, rom kitchen releases etc)
Radio ROM included yes/no, and version
Ext ROM included yes/no, and what apps are included
What apps are included in the ROM itself, and where appropriate, versions
Known issues (such as no videocall)
Free storage space after hard reset
Free RAM after reset
Feel free to add more things you think should be included on the first post of a release, but I really think letting people know this stuff up front would save people a lot of time, and help others when they are searching for a particular ROM, or platform.
Great Idea.
At least it is less confusing. But the version depends on the honesty of the poster as it can be changed.
Regarding "What apps are included in the ROM itself, and where appropriate, versions", i think we have to determine what exactly the definition of vanilla Version, and choose vanilla as general official base for the kitchens or new releases.
Sometimes what is wrote "extra application included" are also not mentioned "what was removed", and regarding "what was removed" sometimes never been included in vanilla ROM stated in that moment or other vanilla versions.
So what are exactly must have apps in vanilla??
SteedMo said:
Regarding "What apps are included in the ROM itself, and where appropriate, versions", i think we have to determine what exactly the definition of vanilla Version, and choose vanilla as general official base for the kitchens or new releases.
Sometimes what is wrote "extra application included" are also not mentioned "what was removed", and regarding "what was removed" sometimes never been included in vanilla ROM stated in that moment or other vanilla versions.
So what are exactly must have apps in vanilla??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=vanilla&page=1
You misunderstood me.
Put it this way[special for you], what applications shall be included in the ROM called Vanilla??
Vanilla to me with regards to ROM images is purely the MS applications that you would get from a reference build, plus MMS, Java, and SIM toolkit.
Anything else is additional, even if it's useful.
One mans vanilla is another mans chocolate
Hey Guys,
Might i suggest that under the Universal heading, we keep the Mobile 6 for questions about stuff not related to specific ROMS and then maybe we can have another forum under universal for Mobile 6 ROMS, and maybe you could even split this into two, ie. one for the basic roms and the other for the roms with all the applications.
That way when people come to the Universal forum they can then choose to either visit the ROM threads or the general mobile 6 threads if they want to ask q's or read about other peoples threads.
Hope that i havent confused, i dont really know the "lingo" quite yet!!!
cheers
captainsensible2002 said:
One mans vanilla is another mans chocolate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... another mans fudge
Vanilla is like a fresh reinstall of M$ Windows on your PC.
Yeah, it has Media Player, IE, Calculator, Notepad, Windows Movie Maker, etc., but it's all part of the package.
Once you install a 3rd party app not bundled with the OS. It's no longer vanilla.
Vanilla - no 3rd party apps, period.
DaVince said:
Vanilla is like a fresh reinstall of M$ Windows on your PC.
Yeah, it has Media Player, IE, Calculator, Notepad, Windows Movie Maker, etc., but it's all part of the package.
Once you install a 3rd party app not bundled with the OS. It's no longer vanilla.
Vanilla - no 3rd party apps, period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does adding ArcSoft MMS Composer count as a 3rd party app?
And what about MSN Messenger and Windows Live - these _appear_ to be M$ apps, but Leo has taken them out of his V5
Personally, I prefer my ROMs with a little chocolate sprinkles and the real chocolate left in the extended ROM... That way I can just uninstall what I don't use
Can we save the discussion about what is vanilla for another day please?
The suggestion is for devs to list the info I mentioned, and what other people felt about this, or if there are other things they should be listing also.
This is not supposed to be a thread about what to include in the ROM itself, that's up to the developers, not us.
kanass69 said:
Hey Guys,
Might i suggest that under the Universal heading, we keep the Mobile 6 for questions about stuff not related to specific ROMS and then maybe we can have another forum under universal for Mobile 6 ROMS, and maybe you could even split this into two, ie. one for the basic roms and the other for the roms with all the applications.
That way when people come to the Universal forum they can then choose to either visit the ROM threads or the general mobile 6 threads if they want to ask q's or read about other peoples threads.
Hope that i havent confused, i dont really know the "lingo" quite yet!!!
cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TehPenguin said:
Does adding ArcSoft MMS Composer count as a 3rd party app?
And what about MSN Messenger and Windows Live - these _appear_ to be M$ apps, but Leo has taken them out of his V5
Personally, I prefer my ROMs with a little chocolate sprinkles and the real chocolate left in the extended ROM... That way I can just uninstall what I don't use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I think, it is better for releaser/poster to release their ROM as Vanilla, and other applications needed can be provided as OEMs or cab.files or ExtdROM.
The reason pretty simple for me, because different people has different characteristics and needs. I.e Leo's V4 and V5, Ones with Windows live and ones with Acrsoft MMS, [and i need both]. And i thought more higher the rank of the version, more stable/less bugs it should be. Seems to me every version have strengths and weaknesses.
And i think it is not fair also if someone determine which the best based on applications installed on it or whats not installed.
Just a suggestion.
I think thats a great idea AlanJC ..... would save a lot of fuss
Good idea!
it Wiil help everyone.
I have tried all flavours of custom cooked WM6 and each and everyone of them had some pieces broken which were essential to me. Right now I'm using XDA Mobile 6 Release 3 which does everything I need but has bug with with Bluetooth pairing.
So I just want plain vanilla WM6 with all pieces working and then I'll install all customisations myself.
Is such ROM available?
artisticcheese said:
I have tried all flavours of custom cooked WM6 and each and everyone of them had some pieces broken which were essential to me. Right now I'm using XDA Mobile 6 Release 3 which does everything I need but has bug with with Bluetooth pairing.
So I just want plain vanilla WM6 with all pieces working and then I'll install all customisations myself.
Is such ROM available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All you need to do is download one of the kitchens (theloons 7.2 in quite nice) and build what you want. That's what I have done and I couldn't be happier.
Kirby
rkwhyte2 said:
That's what I have done and I couldn't be happier.
Kirby
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here. Mine is pretty basic with only a few applications that I can't live without. I couldn't be happier.
Certainly cook your own rom would bring happiness!
If you are tired or even don't know how to do it properly, try TNT Vanilla 1921. You later have to include what you want! That's simple!
epimazzo said:
Certainly cook your own rom would bring happiness!
If you are tired or even don't know how to do it properly, try TNT Vanilla 1921. You later have to include what you want! That's simple!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will this include standard MS applications? I noticed it's missing Office and camera etc. I meant by vanilla - just plain install with no customisation, not stripped to barebones version.
rkwhyte2 said:
All you need to do is download one of the kitchens (theloons 7.2 in quite nice) and build what you want. That's what I have done and I couldn't be happier.
Kirby
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where can I download it? I searched forum for "TheLoon Kitchen 7.2" but can not find anything
Have a look on Zoki version of Vanilla. It already comes with Office and many others plain apps.
artisticcheese said:
Will this include standard MS applications? I noticed it's missing Office and camera etc. I meant by vanilla - just plain install with no customisation, not stripped to barebones version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=320159
artisticcheese said:
Where can I download it? I searched forum for "TheLoon Kitchen 7.2" but can not find anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
epimazzo said:
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=320159
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I build my ROM using that utility and now at nb2nbf screen and have no idea what am I supposed to do now? I asks me for ModelID, NB file, start address, image name etc.
artisticcheese said:
Will this include standard MS applications? I noticed it's missing Office and camera etc. I meant by vanilla - just plain install with no customisation, not stripped to barebones version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in the same boat and am trying to learn how to cook my own.
I just want a standard WM6 with all the standard Microsoft apps (nothing removed) and standard HTC apps like the camera, phonepad, etc., but no 3rd party apps, no custom artsy splash screens with peoples screennames on it, and no junk in the About screens like "Windows Mobile 6 FuNKY K00l Edition, fo shizzle!". Basically, I want something that appears to be an official release that only someone with extensive knowledge of the device would know it wasn't factory installed.
You probably missed something important during your flashing process. Didn't get your point exactly but I suggest you to turn around and learn a bit before you start cooking!
If you do anything wrong you would get your device bricked with no way to be back ok?
I can help you out but if I were you, I 'd read a little to get some knowledge. After, we can have a talk...
The kitchen is easy and simple. I used many times since earlier versions. 7.2 is great and running fine. You can also use Hypercore from Anichillus. Read the built in tutorial first!
Good luck!
artisticcheese said:
I build my ROM using that utility and now at nb2nbf screen and have no idea what am I supposed to do now? I asks me for ModelID, NB file, start address, image name etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GnatGoSplat said:
I'm in the same boat and am trying to learn how to cook my own.
I just want a standard WM6 with all the standard Microsoft apps (nothing removed) and standard HTC apps like the camera, phonepad, etc., but no 3rd party apps, no custom artsy splash screens with peoples screennames on it, and no junk in the About screens like "Windows Mobile 6 FuNKY K00l Edition, fo shizzle!". Basically, I want something that appears to be an official release that only someone with extensive knowledge of the device would know it wasn't factory installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey ! guys
Why don't both of you get the official wm6 vanilla Base Rom release by the Microsoft,well,just hook up to their site and request for a download,they wud be more then pleased to offer you one,LOL cuz only that wud serve your purpose !!
come on guys ! you know that no one has the original wm6 vanilla base Rom released by Microsoft,except the manufacturer's,vendors and carriers only as per the contracts by them,so they all customize the Roms according to their preferences.
All the wm6 base Roms which are floating around on the net are mostly ported from these customized official (stock) Roms of these manufacturers,vendors and carriers.The vanilla Rom provided by the cookers here are the closest to the original,but will certainly have some customizations in them,therefore,what ever you can get will have customizations,so it's upto you to remove all those customizations and addon whatever your needs are.
cheers
zabardast_1 said:
All the wm6 base Roms which are floating around on the net are mostly ported from these customized official (stock) Roms of these manufacturers,vendors and carriers.The vanilla Rom provided by the cookers here are the closest to the original,but will certainly have some customizations in them,therefore,what ever you can get will have customizations,so it's upto you to remove all those customizations and addon whatever your needs are.
cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But of course! Precisely why I am cooking my own. So far so good, it looks as OEM as can be. Only a few bugs left to work out... missing Comm Manager and I think there are a few Microsoft standard WM6 apps that were missing from the vanilla ROM I started with so I'll have to find those and add them. I also need to do a few registry tweaks here and there to set defaults. It's a fun learning experience.
..................................
..................................
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WTF
Maybe you should just cook your own rom
mlcohen said:
Maybe you should just cook your own rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My friend, you miss the whole concept of this thread. If I cooked my own ROM that would only help ME. If I released it to the public there would be many people who wanted to change this or change that. When an update came out I couldn't remove my old version, but would need to recook the whole ROM again with the updates. Granted, for those people who prefer to use a cooked ROM because it "saves them time" when reflashing, then by all means please continue to use a fully cooked ROM. However, I don't see the need to reflash my ROM every two weeks. I would much prefer to have the ability to simply add/remove a program to update it then cook a ROM.
In addition, this thread should prove useful to aspiring cooks becuase I hope to compile the information that would be necessary to take a lite/stock ROM and add to it the bits and pieces that each individual cook might find useful to suit his/her tastes.
So please, if you don't like the concept go lurk elsewhere. This thread is meant for people who support this idea, not nay sayers. If no one supports this idea, then i may have an empty thread, but I am not about to have a debate as to the merits of my idea.
so just install what you want on your lite rom. Everything is out there including Office and the camera stuff. If you really wanted to get crazy you could put it all in your UC
mlcohen said:
so just install what you want on your lite rom. Everything is out there including Office and the camera stuff. If you really wanted to get crazy you could put it all in your UC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize it is all "out there" The purpose of this thread is to help compile it in one place and assist those who prefer to do it this way instead of using a cooked ROM. There are hundreds of threads devoted to "which is the best cooked ROM" and dozens upon dozens of them devoted to "how do I get APP A to work on this cooked rom, or APP B on other cooked ROM."
I believe the people who don't want to use these cooked ROMs should have a place to gather all their info, and hope this to be the place.
And with that being said, I don't plan to respond to any additional critiques of the concept. If you don't want to be a part of the solution then have fun elsewhere.
thanks.
bengalih said:
I realize it is all "out there" ......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg you have no idea......i just went through hell finding cab files and getting them to work on the weekend. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!
i found a cool way of getting some cab files though.......older devices with less storage or with extended roms like the blue angel, the cooks usually provide cab files with their roms.
The worst part was getting the HTC apps to work, esp the multimedia apps.......a lot of the cab files, they just provide the executable and few stuff and the graphic files, but not the codecs that it needs to work. what i did was dump the at&t 6.1 rom and grabbed a bunch of codecs, somewhat works now, i'm missing some reg entries........i'm somewhat waaaaay over my head, but its fun learning this **** as i go along.
oh and i hate the fact that all these htc apps dump their graphic files in the windows directory, takes me forever to open that directory. i did find one or two versions of apps that didnt need them in the windows directory.
I like where this is going and want to see more. I am one of those people.
I like the dutty series. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=383638
Was one of my favorites but too much in it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=388947
The lite of this is the one I am using now.
For example. In the first link I do not want the HTC home, FM Radio etc. But this rom is FAST.
I really like the Hybrid I am using but I have the lite and really liked the MS Voice in from the full versions. I would like to take the games out add ms office and a few progies I use.
I nomintate
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=388947
I use the 1.64.08.21 radio version.
Two registry edits for touchscreen adjustments I find useful:
-Adjusting touch screen sensitivity (from GWENI)
-Adjusting the backlight level when device is locked
For both of these you will need a program to edit your device's registry, such as Mobile Reg Editor or PHM Reg Editor.
Adjusting Touch Screen Sensitivity
-open reg editor
-browse to to HKey_Local_Machine\Drivers\TouchPanel
-change key "PressureThreshold" to "5000".
5000 is recommended, but you can play with the value until you find one you prefer.
Adjust Backlight level while device is locked
-open reg editor
-browse to HKey_Current_User\ControlPanel\Backlight\LockLevel
-change key "LockLevel" from "0" to any number between 1-10.
For this one I have mine set at 5. 10 is the brightest. Adjust to your personal preference.
finch said:
I like where this is going and want to see more. I am one of those people....
I nomintate
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=388947
I use the 1.64.08.21 radio version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the vote of encouragement.
I would assume that you meant the lite ROM from Dutty's latest? I am a fan of the Dutty ROMs and have not yet tried out the latest "lite" version. I couldn't find out on the main page what exactly was IN the "lite" version. Can you post that info here, or a direct link?
So we have our first contender (awaiting more info) as Dutty's latest "lite" build.
Remember to all posters the idea here is to start with a good basic ROM that will allow us to customize ourselves (without being locked down to cooked in apps). Using something like Dutty's could be a good idea as his lite version should have many of his good tweaks built in. I would just like to get some more specific info as to what is in his lite ROM, as well as a few more nominations before we get the ball rolling.
Chances are what we come up with in this thread can be used with many of the ROMs out there, so we don't all have to agree on one. In fact, if we can nominate the top two or three lite/stock ROMs out there for people to experiment with that would be great.
Also, please remember to always check back on the first page for any updates.
marm0lade said:
Two registry edits for touchscreen adjustments I find useful:
-Adjusting touch screen sensitivity (from GWENI)
-Adjusting the backlight level when device is locked
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, fantastic marmOlade, this is exactly the type of things I want to see in terms of good tweaks that pretty much anyone would want to have.
I know most of these are out there posted (like in the excellent GWENI thread) and most like we will have a lot of cross-linkage going on there.
I hope to get a nice database of these tweaks and maybe either work with one of the developers to either make an updated kaiser-tweak program with many more entires, or possibly I can work on developing a PC-based app that would generate a registry file based on chosen options which can then be uploaded to the device. This way you can check-box off the tweaks you like and quickly update the device... that is down the road of course..but thanks for the initial contribution!
bengalih said:
Great, fantastic marmOlade, this is exactly the type of things I want to see in terms of good tweaks that pretty much anyone would want to have.
I know most of these are out there posted (like in the excellent GWENI thread) and most like we will have a lot of cross-linkage going on there.
I hope to get a nice database of these tweaks and maybe either work with one of the developers to either make an updated kaiser-tweak program with many more entires, or possibly I can work on developing a PC-based app that would generate a registry file based on chosen options which can then be uploaded to the device. This way you can check-box off the tweaks you like and quickly update the device... that is down the road of course..but thanks for the initial contribution!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe all your kaiser tweaks can be found in kaisertweak and schap's advanced configuration. If you want to edit htc home, then home customizer works wonders. Not sure why you need a thread like this when you have all these tools.
thomassster said:
I believe all your kaiser tweaks can be found in kaisertweak and schap's advanced configuration. If you want to edit htc home, then home customizer works wonders. Not sure why you need a thread like this when you have all these tools.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that input thomassster. Yes I realize that many of these tweaks are included in some of the tweak programs out there (probably 80%?). Part of this here is to bring attention to them. Many of the tweaks are either already built into the cooked ROMs, or people don't necessarily know what they do just from their title. If we can compile here some better descriptions to help better understand what each tweak does, then for people who wish to customize their own devices from the ground up have a good compendium to look through.
Also, registry tweaks isn't all this thread is about. It is about how to add various applications that may have tricky ways of doing things into a compendium where people can find it easily.
For instance, it isn't always easy to get MS Voice command fully working, or Skype, or some GPS softwares. Currently if you want to use some of these programs you have two options:
1) Use a ROM that has these cooked in already.
2) Look through the forum until you find the solution.
Option #2 of course can be very time consuming as information is outdated and dispersed throughout the forums (some of it isn't even in the Kaiser forums). What I am hoping to do is bring this all together to assist all with some of the trickier apps (MSVC, cubes, etc...).
If you feel this is unnecessary, then please feel free not to visit, but I hope you will continue to provide beneficial input. I'll be sure to post your suggestions on the front (if you have more info to give, links and such are appreciated so I don't need to search myself!).
thanks.
I like the idea as all tweaks and tips are spread over thousands of threads.
I worked on collecting my owns long time ago and I think putting them in a new thread is not a big deal unless bengalih do the documentation of all posted tweaks and post them in one document and/or CAB in first post.
Or simply add them to wiki
msharaf said:
I like the idea as all tweaks and tips are spread over thousands of threads....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the vote of support. I am as much interested in getting some good descriptions, and many categorizing the tweaks. As many have pointed out most of the tweaks are out there and already included in some of the tweak programs. I would like to add to that by giving attention to exactly what the tweaks do, how they help us, and which ones are highly recommended.
For instance, you might use Dutty's ROM and like all the tweaks in there, while not even realizing what he has done. If you moved to a "lite" ROM you might miss those things, but not really know which tweak it is you need to perform... I hope to gather a good list of that type of info here.
Great!
I totally agree with what you say in your first post. Currently using latest Duttys ROM, but still feel i need something more custom made (by me) in other words i'd like to have a bigger input in what I use.
watching the thread....
Most cooked ROMs are bugged
What about starting with an official shipped ROM?, remove just stupid things like welcome center, customer feedback... everything else is needed.
Most cooked ROMS I've tried have things broken, I mean things that work on official stock ROM and not here.
Like Windows live, 3G call, QuickGPS, HTC album.. I usally do not spend more than a few hours with a cooked ROM before I find too many bugs and too many things that should be working and are not.
I can flash the ROM that came with my TyTN II and add a few cabs, and all work. Camera works, 3G video call works, GPS works, Tomtom works, Skype works... It's WM6.0, but things WORK. No missing icons, no missing buttons, no stupid buttons for hardware that it's not on the phone...
And, expecting those "go cook your own ROM" flames... this is looking a lot like the linux fanboys, I'm not a programmer or OS developer, I see someone announcing an OS and test it, and give my findings. No good if basic things do not work correctly and you have to search for registry tweaks to make something that you had before appear again, or work as in a stock ROM.
vcespon said:
What about starting with an official shipped ROM?, remove just stupid things like welcome center, customer feedback... everything else is needed.
Most cooked ROMS I've tried have things broken, I mean things that work on official stock ROM and not here.
Like Windows live, 3G call, QuickGPS, HTC album.. I usally do not spend more than a few hours with a cooked ROM before I find too many bugs and too many things that should be working and are not.
I can flash the ROM that came with my TyTN II and add a few cabs, and all work. Camera works, 3G video call works, GPS works, Tomtom works, Skype works... It's WM6.0, but things WORK. No missing icons, no missing buttons, no stupid buttons for hardware that it's not on the phone...
And, expecting those "go cook your own ROM" flames... this is looking a lot like the linux fanboys, I'm not a programmer or OS developer, I see someone announcing an OS and test it, and give my findings. No good if basic things do not work correctly and you have to search for registry tweaks to make something that you had before appear again, or work as in a stock ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am using a cooked rom and dont have any bugs. Looks like u have tried the wrong roms. And dont forget that shiped roms dont have some customizations(which improve the performance) that the cooked roms have.
Hello fellow Chefs..
I know all of you are probably busy, but I hope you'll read this.
For few months I have this idea, which seems I can't do myself (mostly lack of time, as well as resources and knowledge of few things).
Since first time I read about UC, I knew what I wanted to do: a basic, simple ROM version, without *anything* added. Just plain OS, nothing else.
Basically it can be described in one sentence:
Less cooked-in, More by User.
Less is More.
The idea was the same as behind UC - let the USER customize it the way he wants during flashing or after every hard reset.
Call it "cooking without cooking"
I did it, but the time took me to finish it made it old and obsolete build.
I was going to do new one when I received 20748 from Akadonny, based on the same principle, but I realized it'll take me too much time again.
So here is passing the idea to you:
If you have some new good base, beside cooking your usual ROMs, perhaps consider making one small extra "basic" ROM?
You may ask why.
Well, you can see the answer in post of each and every ROM thread. Johnny wants NETCF3.5 cooked-in while 888 dont want it Johnny2 ask for game, Johnny3 asks to remove this, another wants that to be added and so on and on. You get the idea, I think
No one needs exactly the same features as another person.
Sure, continue making your own "custom-featured" ROMs with your selection of custom cooked-in add-ons (ie latest Garmin's ROMs with his own cool icons, or sakajati's cool looking ROM with cooked-in Manilla 2D). Many people have no slightest idea how to even change their wallpaper, so obviously all they want is "ready to go", fully pre-loaded and fully pre-configured ROM.
But also there are people who know how to use UC to its full extent, including loading their own settings XMLs and their own selection of software.
They don't need all those extra nifty perks you guys cook-in in every ROM.
And very often the settings you guys have cooked-in make problems for them. Don't misunderstand me here: it is great for most average people when you cook-in features they can't or don't know how to add. But not everyone needs it. Hence the idea - make an extra version of ROM, *without* all your usual extras, perks, and whistles, don't cook-in anything there, and let the user choose what to add with UC. Yes, I noticed that for some Chefs the art of cooking is some sort of competition - "I add this first, I do that better," and so on... well, making a "basic" ROM can be and is competitive as well! If you need "competing adrenaline" think of it that way: can you "shave" the base as much as other Chef and still have it fully working? Or maybe you can make it even smaller without sacrificing any functionality? (thats just example)
Anyways, I know it is doable.
And I know many people would thank you that
Whats more, cooking just a 'basic' ROM (without anything that can be installed later during UC) and relying on UC afterwards, makes it much better than spending time on setting up everything you would have cooked-in.
Why to do it?
Because once user have all his usual programs "moved" from having them cooked-in onto the Storage Card (and installed from there with UC), as well as all his settings etc in the XMLs on Storage Card, it is oh-so-damn-easy for every one to update their phone to the latest build version without loosing any of their programs, features or settings!
Lets say (this is just for example) that I have sakajati's latest 20749.1.4.0 build on my phone, but Garmin posted today newer 28000.1.5.0 build, so by flashing newest Garmin's ROM no one would loose any of their programs or settings they had on sakajati's ROM because they all would be installed again to Garmin's ROM with UC.
It would also eliminate dilemma users often have, like (again - its just example) "I like icons on Garmin's ROM, stability of sakajati's ROM and the way my GPS works so fast on XyZ's ROM, too bad I can't have all of them in one". Well, it is possible actually, but it takes Chef's to swallow a bit of our pride
Wouldn't it be great?
All it takes is Chefs making "on the side" extra lean/small/basic/whaetever-you-call-it version of their ROM, and accompany them with extended cabs packages rather than cooking it all in (where possible, of course), and the users themselves keeping all their extras (software, settings etc) on their Storage Card ready to be installed again and again every time they flash their phone with new ROM or if they just hard reset it....
I know I would like that, and I'm sure there are more people
Any takers to this idea?
Thank you for reading such long post
BTW
I started to play with something like that based on 3.29 from Akadonny.
If you want to see what I mean, it is in my shared files (\Private folder, "eLMO_3_29_..." ROM)
(NOTE: it is not finished, its work in progress, so it works partially, but I have no time to work on it now so most likely I'll never finish it - because probably again by the time I'll have it ready there will be 100 newer builds 'on the market' and it will be obsolete by then ).
A good idea would be
Edit: PPCKITCHEN NOW HAS KAISER SUPPORT...WOOT!
Old:
I seriously love the PPCKitchen cooking utility...So, if I knew how to sign and stuff, I could code it...so if anyone wants to get in contact with me.
-888- said:
Hello fellow Chefs..
Click to expand...
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natalic said:
Edit: PPCKITCHEN NOW HAS KAISER SUPPORT...WOOT!
Originally Posted by -888-
Hello fellow Chefs..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old:
I seriously love the PPCKitchen cooking utility...So, if I knew how to sign and stuff, I could code it...so if anyone wants to get in contact with me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems like what you quoted is all what you read from my post
I just completed cooking what is essentially the 2nd version of my very first ROM. It all started out of a perceived demand for AT&T's Official 6.1 ROM, but without the ton of crap they put in it.
After I released V1 of my ROM, people seemed to be quite impressed with it, and quite frankly I was shocked, since it was my first attempt. Non-AT&T users then started asking about a version of the ROM without AT&T settings, so for V2 I released an HTC build based on their Official WWE ROM.
Both the AT&T and HTC ROMs are considered out of date by current build numbers, but since they are true Kaiser ROMs, I was able to avoid a lot of the minor issues that tend to show up in ROMs using bases ported from other devices.
In an attempt to appeal to as many people as possible, I produced 6 different versions (3 from AT&T and 3 from HTC) of V2.
The "Base" ROM included the bare-minimum. The only changes made were updating the camera and album, and adding a 10-button Comm Manager.
The "Base+HTC Home" is exactly as above, but with HTC Home added.
The "Loaded" ROM is a build very similar to what I use on my Tilt.
All of the ROMs were also made to be UC-compatible, so that anyone who flashed them could easily install all their apps not included in one of the various builds.
Once V2 goes final, I'm going to figure out the whole "upgrading base versions" thing, and start to experiment with newer builds.
NotATreoFan said:
The "Base" ROM included the bare-minimum. The only changes made were updating the camera and album, and adding a 10-button Comm Manager.
The "Base+HTC Home" is exactly as above, but with HTC Home added.
The "Loaded" ROM is a build very similar to what I use on my Tilt.
All of the ROMs were also made to be UC-compatible, so that anyone who flashed them could easily install all their apps not included in one of the various builds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congratulations on your new ROMs!
I'm sure I will try them when I have some more time, perhaps this weekend.
I remember your previous ROM v1 was very nice (yeah Im a ROM-junkie haha).
but regarding the subject.
I think you misunderstand me.
If I may take the example of your "Base ROM" because that's exactly what I'm talking about (same goes for example to Garmin's "naked" ROM; Garmin if you read it here is my explanation to what we were discussing when I had to leave earlier):
Camera - there are versions 4 & 5 available, and it perfectly works when installed separately, so it doesn't have to be cooked-in in a "base" ROM. Having "your" version already cooked-in actually prevents anyone using this ROM from installing any other Camera version...
Album - same as above. There are few different version of v.1 & v.2, each one of them has different size and slightly different option. Why it has to be cooked-in if it perfectly works when installed with UC?
Comm Manager - again, same as above. Especially this one, where there are more versions of this app than anything else, 3-button, 4-button, 6-button, 8-button, 9-button and 10-button versions available, and some with different "subversions" as well (different look/skins).
Give users of your "base" ROM freedom of choice and let them choose which version they want, DON'T cook those in!
Yes, you should include them in a "regular" more-less featured ROM, by all means they should be there, but IMHO for a "base" or "basic" ROM there should be only a minimum or basics, or the stuff that have to be cooked-in to work.
I started this thread not only because I was going to make it myself, but also because I noticed that so many ROMs I have tried in past few months are almost as bloated as official HTC ROMs, and almost all light/slim/small/naked/base ROMs that I've seen, with very few exceptions, are far from being really lite or small.
No.
-888- said:
Seems like what you quoted is all what you read from my post
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No. When I quoted the whole text I got issues...Sorry if I missunderstood by the way.
natalic said:
No. When I quoted the whole text I got issues...Sorry if I missunderstood by the way.
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Click to collapse
I've check this PPC Kitchen you wrote about (IMHO its a complete OT here). I dont know how it works and is it any good, but seems like it may be handy for less-knowledgeable people who want to avoid any command-line work but still would like to play own Chef's game Perhaps you should start new thread about it.
Nice idea but...
The reality is that chefs are cooking their roms to some extent for their own preferences, and then to a large extent to what most people want. I find it unlikely that there are many users like you who would prefer to have virtually everything stripped out of a rom. I agree it is nice to have a light rom w/o many programs, but in my experience most of the lite roms, or super lite roms have only some bare minimum program. (dialer, sql, netcf sometimes, office on occasion)
I truly think that users such as yourself need to get into the kitchen as you will never truly satisfied with someone else's work. This is not meant as a dig, but rather that you love to have your rom tweaked out just the way you want it. There will always be a few chefs who release the kinds of stripped down roms you're looking for, but i really doubt you will ever see most chefs releasing that kind of rom simply because it really isn't want most people want. I personally think a better solution is if more of the programs included were uninstallable. That way a user like yourself could remove those programs you do no want, then run your UC and have all your settings and programs just the way you wanted them, but also appeal to those users who want the rom to have at least a few of what they might consider the essentials.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
scotchua said:
The reality is that chefs are cooking their roms to some extent for their own preferences, and then to a large extent to what most people want. I find it unlikely that there are many users like you who would prefer to have virtually everything stripped out of a rom. I agree it is nice to have a light rom w/o many programs, but in my experience most of the lite roms, or super lite roms have only some bare minimum program. (dialer, sql, netcf sometimes, office on occasion)
I truly think that users such as yourself need to get into the kitchen as you will never truly satisfied with someone else's work. This is not meant as a dig, but rather that you love to have your rom tweaked out just the way you want it. There will always be a few chefs who release the kinds of stripped down roms you're looking for, but i really doubt you will ever see most chefs releasing that kind of rom simply because it really isn't want most people want. I personally think a better solution is if more of the programs included were uninstallable. That way a user like yourself could remove those programs you do no want, then run your UC and have all your settings and programs just the way you wanted them, but also appeal to those users who want the rom to have at least a few of what they might consider the essentials.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Click to collapse
Ah no scotchua, I *don't* use completely stripped-down ROMs at all, ever
I doubt anyone does.
I load plenty of apps, probably more than most of the average people - I always have almost 500MB of programs on my SD (and none of those are any games!) and even though I install everything as much as I can to SD, I still get 50-70MB of stuff into Main Storage as well.
But all of them are *my* choices, almost all of them I have installed with UC.
Thats the beauty of UC which many Chefs seem to underappreciate.
I'm not against having any additional software, Im just saying that if Chefs would utilize UC more instead of cooking-in the apps that can be perfectly installed with UC, it would give more power to everyone - and make the ROMs more customizable than they are now.
As in the NATF's previous post example, he already denied users of his "Base" ROM their choice of Camera, Comm Manager and Album apps.
Would his "base" ROM be anything worse if those 3 apps wouldn't have been cooked-in but given to users as an option in extended cabs package? It wouldn't, and actually his ROM would have been even more versatile and customizable, because the same apps could be installed with UC by those who don't want anything else, while other versions of those could be installed by those who wanted something else.
I understand what youre saying - I agree it is "Chef's choice what ingredients they put in". But I'm not talking about show-off ROMs like ie sakajati's first kaiser ROM with Manilla2D, I'm talking about *base/small/lite* ROMs.
IMHo its some kind of misconception of what lite ROM is if anyone calls ROM "lite" yet half of *major* programs are already cooked-in.
I personally think a better solution is if more of the programs included were uninstallable. That way a user like yourself could remove those programs you do no want, then run your UC...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see here you partially see what Im talking about.
Unfortunately it doesnt work this way.
First, for any program to be uninstallable, it has to be installed from a cab. Therefore the cab have to be cooked-in. That takes space and would make any ROM more bloated than official ROM. take for example just few major apps like NETCF, WMLive, Office - just their cabs would still chomp out some 12-15MB of ROM, even if you would uninstall them, because you can't "uninstall" the cab itself, it will always be there in the ROM taking space. Thats worse than having them cooked-in.
But please follow me one step further.
Since you agree that it is better solution to have such uninstallable, the solution is exactly what Im talking about: anything that don't need to be cooked-in (in order to work properly) should go as a cab to storage card (instead of ROM as you suggested) and be installable/uninstallable from there.
Thats all it takes.
Less cooked-in = More.
With ie Camera app cooked-in you can't install any newer version on top of it.
With Album cooked-in you can't install newer version over it.
With Comm Manager cooked-in you can't install different version over it.
Almost every major program, when cooked-in, cannot be upgraded with newer version (or older if someone prefers it).
D3D drivers are almost released daily. What is the point to cook them in if by the end of the week there probably will be newer version? (and we all know that out of anything else we do want latest drivers always)
Those are just few examples.
Why should we force users to flash entire new ROM if all he wants is different Camera apps (for example)?
Solutions is moving all those programs to xtended cabs on SD and having them installed with UC , which would make them all not only perfectly uninstallable, without taking any space in the ROM when not installed or uninstalled, but they will be also easily upgradeable.
For half a year or more we have this perfect solution to all of it: UC
and almost nobody takes advantage of its great possibilities
-888- said:
I see here you partially see what Im talking about.
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I chopped the other to save space. It's not that i don't understand what you're talking about, and i do conceed i forgot that those cabs have to be stored separately on the rom, and it would be very bloated in that case.
The reality is that the type of rom you are wanting is really not desired by the majority of users here. I think that most chef's just aren't going to want to put out 3 versions of every rom they do. Hopefully one will take your words to heart though, as that would allow you the type of roms you are looking for. I just really don't believe that there are enough users who want those last few items stripped from the rom. i have been using UC since it was first released, and i think it's a wonderful tool. I love lite roms as well, for the reasons you stated. I do; however, realize that i'm more the exception rather than the rule. The majority of users can't even be bothered to look for a program, or figure out where to go to uncheck they proxy lol. I actually prefer to have a few things cooked in, for example sql and netcf. Not because i can't install them myself, but rather because if i don't install them first and separately then i seems to have issues with some of my programs.
I agree that installing programs to the SD card is the way to go. It allows you to never have to enter your settings again for so many programs. Recently it seems that I have been having a lot of issues with the files being corrupted however, which has actually been a source of frustration to me.
Anyway, I guess my point is that I understand what you're getting at, and i can see why it's appealing to you. I just don't think there's enough users who feel that same way to warrent the extra work required for the chefs. It is an interesting idea an maybe some others will come in here and prove that i am wrong for thinking so. This is an excellent discussion point, and your ideas are well thought out articulated. IT should be a useful discussion.
scotchua said:
I chopped the other to save space. It's not that i don't understand what you're talking about, and i do conceed i forgot that those cabs have to be stored separately on the rom, and it would be very bloated in that case.
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Click to collapse
I chopped it as well, youre right -no need to repeat it all everytime we reply
Thank you. Im glad we're on the same page
I do understand that such "real lite" ROMs would be for just a fraction of people.
But I think it would change if this idea would spread.
because lets face it - for Chefs there will be absolutely no difference if the same programs that they cook-in would be attached as some extended cabs package to their ROM. Actually it makes cooking the ROM even easier
Its the same programs and features, but instead of having them cooked-in they can come as cabs to be installed with UC.
If Chefs would do this, at first probably there would be many people not understanding it and asking "what the hell is this UC and why do I have to extract second rar to my storage card" and so on. But once they would try it I'm sure even an average non-tekkie user would see the advantages: new Camera app has been ported from some OMNIA II ? No problem - uninstall the one you have and install new one. Don't like it? Uninstall new one and install old one back. Very much like on your standard computer. Thats the main advantage I see in "UC-ing everything".
Because I don't know about everyone else, but I sure have been always pisssed that if I want to change any of the major apps I have to reflash entire ROM!
Hopefully one will take your words to heart though, as that would allow you the type of roms you are looking for.
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Its not for *me*! I use my own ROM since I learned on Alex's kitchen... but yes, I would love to see such lite ROMs from other Chefs since we have some great talents here.
And please remember Im not saying that all ROMs should be made to have everything from UC, but the "lite" ROMs certainly should. No n00bs go for "lite" ROMs, thus it is safe to assume that all the "lite" afficionados here are at least accustomed with UC
Welp, the best solution is to create a base rom as clean as possible, then you pack all the cabs into exe installer file that runs on PC using any pocket pc installer creator. Set options to this installer so user can pick which cabs they want to install.
I might implement this on my future rom release (HyperDragon IV)
Nice idea -888-
for me, Creating ROM, means creating a choice for user,.
But some of the user, would like to use just what was included in the ROM itself,.
so for me, the best solution was making sveral variants,.
-888-,
I do like lite roms the best. Kyphur got me started in my quest to build the lightest, but fully functional rom. But even then there are some that prefer something not so lite. No matter what you do you will never satisfy everyone.
CRCinAU has a ROM for the Hermes which he calls 'Naked', which starts off with a base ROM. But he includes a utility that allows the user to pick which apps/utilities to add to the ROM after the user has the ROM up and running. Maybe that may be a concept to transfer to the Kaiser ROMs. Additionally, any apps/utilities that wouldn't be on this 'list' can still be installed by the user the old fashioned way.
Sorry, just thought I'd bring this up. I'm not a chef, although someday I'd like to learn how to cook up my own!
biscuits1978 said:
CRCinAU has a ROM for the Hermes which he calls 'Naked', which starts off with a base ROM. But he includes a utility that allows the user to pick which apps/utilities to add to the ROM after the user has the ROM up and running. Maybe that may be a concept to transfer to the Kaiser ROMs. Additionally, any apps/utilities that wouldn't be on this 'list' can still be installed by the user the old fashioned way.
Sorry, just thought I'd bring this up. I'm not a chef, although someday I'd like to learn how to cook up my own!
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Hermes have extended ROM, and it will be very easy to popping up the choice for user to install, with mortscript,.
but not kaiser, kaiser dont have that, so the only way of UC, was putting .cab inside storage card
Garmin said:
Hermes have extended ROM, and it will be very easy to popping up the choice for user to install, with mortscript,.
but not kaiser, kaiser dont have that, so the only way of UC, was putting .cab inside storage card
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Click to collapse
what do you mean the kaiser doesnt have mortscript?
also, i think that tier autoinstall fits this category perfectly
I'm just layman user like most users here,and I think i very much agree with Scot. You see,if user like us were left to our own choice of how to install and make certain must-have apps (for us), like office mobile, windows live, etc, it will give the chef lots of headaches in replying "i try to install it but it wont work, you must help me... bla... bla... bla",since we don't even care that we have to install netcf first. Not to mention that installation of netcf itself is not as problem-free as most layman will think.
So most of the times i saw our chefs have to cooked some apps in to ensure it works so he will only be bothered by questions about more unspecific apps like beejive,arabizer,tomtom,igo,etc. It'd save him from standard apps question.
Although i must admit that your idea is very great,and very appealing to most advanced users. But maybe if chef should release this kind of ROM,it must be in separated dedicated thread with big bold warning letters:
"Please DO NOT TRY to flash this version of ROM if you don't even know how to customize things on your own. Any questions arised from ignorance will not ever be replied!!".
But from my observation here,even when warned harshly, there will always be ignorant people to give you nightmares, LOL =D
mbarvian said:
what do you mean the kaiser doesnt have mortscript?
also, i think that tier autoinstall fits this category perfectly
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No sir, i mean kaiser dont have extended ROM,.
Base/Clean ROM would be great
I've been here 'lurking' for a while and have been trying to find time to start cooking ROMs , but I must agree w/ 888 that sharing clean/base ROMs would be a great idea.
Personally I've moved from UC to Sashimi to configure my builds post flash as I find its much more robust than UC. The only potential downside to Sashimi vs UC is you have to invoke it post refresh whereas UC is loaded automatically for the ROMs where it is enabled.
However I rather enjoy the flexibility to see what the 'naked' rom can do before I add my apps and configs to it.
The chefs here are WAY beyond helpful, but I think it would be a great thing to have the bare bones type of rom that those w/o time to be chefs can still uninstall/install their favorite and or latest/greatest versions of the updated apps that seem to come out frequently.
Also by not cooking things in they can be upgraded when a potential improved version is available.
I'm still searching for the ultimate ROM, but that may be a long search. Each ROM I've seen and or installed has had its benefits and 'challenges'.
Just my twenty or so cents.
Hi guys,
long time reader, first time poster.
I decided to register because it really galls me.
For past couple of weeks I'm trying all the WM6.5 roms here, and despite the names like "plain" "naked" and such, none are really plain or naked, or they are unstable or miss something or have other problems like they are "not well cooked".
Is there any cook out here who can cook really plain/clean WM 6.5 rom, perhaps with Mobile Office, but without any other apps whatsoever?
I'm using excellent eOS.4.888.Fire rom for 2 years now, and it is aging. I want to upgrade to WM 6.5 but I can't find anything like it.
I just can't believe it is so hard to cook a plain rom with office and without anything else, why do all the cooks have to include extra apps that they like? Is it so hard to cook a rom without them? I don't understand.
I beg you, o Great Holy Cooks of XDA, anyone of yous: please cook a one plain and stable English WM 6.5 rom for our Kaisers! Please!
I will gladly donate to make your effort worthwile, and I'm sure many other xda users would do the same, as almost every rom thread here have the same question about "is it clean/plain and stable rom"... and I believe it shouldn't be that much of work for those who already know how to cook!
try ahmedfikry
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=618767
clean and plain
wm 6.5 like stock rom with office mobile 2010
What is it you consider a clean ROM? No manila? What apps dont you want? For me most of the ROMs on here are clean..
feckineck said:
wm 6.5 like stock rom with office mobile 2010
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You can install the new office on a stock ROM. So why cook it?
clean
there is no 6.5 stock rom for kaiser.
no files other than those requierd to run.
no audio or pictures.
feckineck said:
there is no 6.5 stock rom for kaiser.
no files other than those requierd to run.
no audio or pictures.
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Click to collapse
Exactly!
This is what I consider plain and clean:
example from eOS.4.888.Fire rom:
forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2729087&postcount=1
- Windows Mobile with its own apps (Active Sync, Calendar, ...)
- very few HTC apps that are specific to Kaiser's hardware features (QuickGPS, Bluetooth, wifi ...)
- MS Office and its neccessary apps
I don't want any audioboosters or other "cook's favorite apps" to take up space in the rom. Make the rom with UC and we can add anything else ourself, at hard reset
clean plain
just the os no htc or ms soft just winmo 6.5
Since Kaiser has a native 6.5 kernel, you get better performance cooking in everything that you want installed, but I'm sure you know well enough. Anyway, I can do this for you once or twice (only once or twice due to limited spare time on my part).
Tell me which build you want and a detailed list of every package you want and I will leave out everything else.
Clean Plain WM6.5 anyone? Begging the cooks
whats the least programs you can make it with no ms soft even office or pics or audio files .
we arent cooks or we would do it ourself thanks in advance.
I can take out every sound, pic, and document and AFAIK, it will still boot. Please keep in mind though, it does not give better performance with 6.5 NK to install things like Adobe reader, Java, Office, or .NET after flash. You will get better performance by cooking them in the rom. OTOH, I believe Manila, Phone Canvas (and anything else with many picture files) are better to be installed after flash instead of cooked in.
As to your question, I only have to leave in a few packages for the rom to boot, but many things will not work if not cooked in (DRM, I believe is one of them).
selyb said:
I can take out every sound, pic, and document and AFAIK, it will still boot. Please keep in mind though, it does not give better performance with 6.5 NK to install things like Adobe reader, Java, Office, or .NET after flash. You will get better performance by cooking them in the rom. OTOH, I believe Manila, Phone Canvas (and anything else with many picture files) are better to be installed after flash instead of cooked in.
As to your question, I only have to leave in a few packages for the rom to boot, but many things will not work if not cooked in (DRM, I believe is one of them).
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leave in anything that has to be cooked in