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This topic has been floating around the forums for a long time now. For as long as chefs been cooking, they’ve been trying to cook their “perfect rom.” Well…unfortunately they can’t do it by themselves. They need some help from us…so this thread is for any and all feedback we may all have as users, to offer to our chefs in order to achieve our goal.
Keep in mind guys, we’re all different people, we all require different things. Let’s keep our thoughts realistic and respectful. We’re use to 3 types of roms….Full, Medium and Light (lite.) Let’s see if we can offer up a somewhat standard model and set of applications for each type of rom.
But not just apps….lets break this down to CE builds..OS tweaks…radio performance…visual preferences…..EVERYTHING!!!!
also (i know this is gonna cause an outbreak!....) if there are any outstanding issues you've been having with all coked roms across the board...feel free to mention....The more we're all aware of something the better the chance it will be addressed!
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((Results and conclusions))
-For the most part, we can all agree certain apps should not be cooked in because they're updated too often.
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((Topics and issues))
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*well i can't edit the poll...so we'll have to do this the hard way. So we have the "to be cooked or not" apps figured out. Next is the model in which the roms are produced. Like i said before...theres usually 3. Lite, Medium and full. We need to define the roll and specs of each and what they contain. Sound Off
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At the request of mr.dutty i've added a poll. Im not sure if i can do this, but i'll try to switch it up everyday with a new subject everyday or so.
* = current topic
almost was going to warn you to get some flame retardant clothing at first glance. However after reading a bit more it does not seem to be a bad idea, assuming it can be kept free from garbage. Ill put some thought and contribute what i can but not a bad idea.
A few things I look for in a cooked ROM -
Hardware keyboard performance: We're talking about a device that features a very nice full hardware keyboard, and roms should take this into account. I've encountered roms that have laggy keyboard entry, other weird keyboard entry problems, and some which work beautifully.
Careful which apps are cooked in: If an app is likely to get updated frequently, it's my opinion that it shouldn't get cooked into a rom (unless, of course, it's a PITA to install in the first place). There'd be no point cooking PointUI's Home into a ROM, as it gets updated a lot. Also, the legality of any cooked in App should be considered. For example, I'd love to see a rom that's got Opera Mini cooked in and ready to go as the default browser, which is a lot of fiddling around and hard work, rather than a rom that uses the NOT FREE Opera Mobile.
Screen Rotation Speed: Some ROMs have managed to achieve near instant screen rotation speeds, others have not. It'd be great to know what settings affect this, and cook them in.
Options: I hate Large Start Menu. I love the fact that you can easily turn it off without any side-effects. I love the fact that Quick Menu gets cooked in, but you have the option to not use it (I'm firmly in the "loving quick menu" camp though, at the moment).
Most important: Speed. I really don't feel like this device is performing quite as well as it could do. I think we could get there - I think there's still some exploring to do, and at some point there'll be a major breakthrough.
Maybe this thread is the start of all of that?
Thank you For starting this as this will alow us to find out from different individuals thier own opinions and also from different chefs as to how we can maximise the best performance out of this baby kaiser.
At the moment Im trying different stuffs
I don't know to much about this stuff, but in my last month of looking at these forums.. I think a lot of people use these
- Pocket Core Media Player
- SOme form of Registry Edit
- Task Manager (Detialed one, WTask i think it's called?)
- Pocket Screen
- Office (obviously)
- Note pad (love it)
- Touch Settings
- Query Analyzer (maybe not for everyone..)
- Slide 2 unlock (better to get that yourself probably now that I think about it)
- Schapps advanced config 1.1
- KaiserTweak
- Total Commander looks pretty usefull
- Some sort of FTP program
- I wish there was some app for linking HTC favorites in the cube to their contact record (give you option of calling,e mailing, etc, instead of a quick call)
Not very advanced stuff, but stuff I hav efound pretty usefull that i never knew about.
swtaltima said:
almost was going to warn you to get some flame retardant clothing at first glance. However after reading a bit more it does not seem to be a bad idea, assuming it can be kept free from garbage. Ill put some thought and contribute what i can but not a bad idea.
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Click to collapse
lol no worries man. i got my suit bag unzipped and waiting!
i guess i'll give it a go....
me myself...I prefer a Full rom. but it seems very unrealistic as to what’s in a full rom or not. I’ve been talking to dutty a bit about this and he wanted me to get some ideas and get back to him….so I guess this is the place to get it all together. For those of us with a tilt…we all know how fat the shipped att rom was. But the funny thing is…it wasn’t slow at all! This is what sparked my thoughts. How about…a full rom = a bloated rom! But not bad bloated….good bloated. I’m talking about any and all those little apps we all know and love. Such as….group sms…call firewall…opermini (files provided to set as main browser…I think that should be left up to the user,) tom tom...quick menu….Live search and all other live apps, all HTC current apps and dialers….ect ect. I wanted to include slide to unlock, point ui and pocket cm…but these apps are updated too often to cook in….but non the less would be great for a full rom. I believe the cooks can find a way to make a rom like this work!
For a media rom….pretty much the rom…plus all the htc goodies we’re all used to. And the the rest of the inessentials….things like flash lite…youtube already cooked in....ect ect. It should be kept clean and nice.
A lite rom?....nothing! lol…lite roms are for those of us who like to tinker ourselves or just don’t use a damn thing on the phone…so I think it should be just the os! And call it a day.
I think we need to add a poll of some sort to vote on what apps should be included in each rom so we can observe, study and compare what individuals use in thier roms and what they dont like.
dan13l said:
A few things I look for in a cooked ROM -
Hardware keyboard performance: We're talking about a device that features a very nice full hardware keyboard, and roms should take this into account. I've encountered roms that have laggy keyboard entry, other weird keyboard entry problems, and some which work beautifully.
Careful which apps are cooked in: If an app is likely to get updated frequently, it's my opinion that it shouldn't get cooked into a rom (unless, of course, it's a PITA to install in the first place). There'd be no point cooking PointUI's Home into a ROM, as it gets updated a lot. Also, the legality of any cooked in App should be considered. For example, I'd love to see a rom that's got Opera Mini cooked in and ready to go as the default browser, which is a lot of fiddling around and hard work, rather than a rom that uses the NOT FREE Opera Mobile.
Screen Rotation Speed: Some ROMs have managed to achieve near instant screen rotation speeds, others have not. It'd be great to know what settings affect this, and cook them in.
Options: I hate Large Start Menu. I love the fact that you can easily turn it off without any side-effects. I love the fact that Quick Menu gets cooked in, but you have the option to not use it (I'm firmly in the "loving quick menu" camp though, at the moment).
Most important: Speed. I really don't feel like this device is performing quite as well as it could do. I think we could get there - I think there's still some exploring to do, and at some point there'll be a major breakthrough.
Maybe this thread is the start of all of that?
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Click to collapse
point ui makes for a good debate....the reason i would cook it in is because it comes with its own update client. so even if an older version is cooked in....or an update is available a day after the rom is cooked....you just need to go into update and that will take care of that. but i do agree with the idea of frequently updated apps should be avoided.
the screen roatation is another one....i agree. i've seen it vary from rom to rom even within dutty's camp. maybe the cooks can unite and nail that one down.
I've been using different ROMs over the last month or so and what I normally go for is the lite ROM with all the performance updates. Then I add my own apps to it. From the ROMs that have applications cooked into it I may use 80-90% of it which I find is not good for me and I think this holds true for most, if not all users. Everyone has different taste/needs.
Maybe a ROM with just the OS and performance/optimization tweaks and leave the rest up to the users. They can find the cabs for everything so why bother to cook it in. The other thing with cooking in the apps if is if the app gets an update a new ROM is needed.
Or just cook your own ROM. There's enough info within the forums to make your own ROM and include whatever apps you want.
Maybe the focus should be on optimizing the OS and leave the apps to the choice of the user.
ecltech said:
I've been using different ROMs over the last month or so and what I normally go for is the lite ROM with all the performance updates. Then I add my own apps to it. From the ROMs that have applications cooked into it I may use 80-90% of it which I find is not good for me and I think this holds true for most, if not all users. Everyone has different taste/needs.
I think make a ROM with just the OS and performance tweaks and leave the rest up to the users. They can find the cabs for everything so why bother to cook it in. The other thing with cooking in the apps if is if the app gets an update a new ROM is needed.
Or just cook your own ROM. There's enough info within the forums to make your own ROM and include whatever apps you want.
Maybe the focus should be on optimizing the OS and leave the apps to the choice of the user.
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I cooked a lot of roms but always stick with the full rom, Reason is i could take out 50mb of programs out of a rom and This doesnt give me that equvalent space and also performance sometimes are un-stable, thats my own opinion.
I think there is a halfway line with how much goodies you can install in a rom to please most people
ecltech said:
I've been using different ROMs over the last month or so and what I normally go for is the lite ROM with all the performance updates. Then I add my own apps to it. From the ROMs that have applications cooked into it I may use 80-90% of it which I find is not good for me and I think this holds true for most, if not all users. Everyone has different taste/needs.
Maybe a ROM with just the OS and performance/optimization tweaks and leave the rest up to the users. They can find the cabs for everything so why bother to cook it in. The other thing with cooking in the apps if is if the app gets an update a new ROM is needed.
Or just cook your own ROM. There's enough info within the forums to make your own ROM and include whatever apps you want.
Maybe the focus should be on optimizing the OS and leave the apps to the choice of the user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all good points...i tend to agree with you. but lets not forget we're dealing with people who dont know how to hard slp...refuse to read through 30 pages of posts or even use teh search feature. so a full features rom will always be needed.
rzanology said:
all good points...i tend to agree with you. but lets not forget we're dealing with people who dont know how to hard slp...refuse to read through 30 pages of posts or even use teh search feature. so a full features rom will always be needed.
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This is true. For a full featured ROM I think a based ROM might be better versus cooking in many apps. Here's a list that I think can be a good starting point for a base ROM. Some utilities, tweaks, visuals, etc. The rest can be managed by the user.
- Advanced Config
- GPS Test
- HTC Album
- HTC Camera (new version)
- NotePad
- Registry Editor
- Pocket RAR
- Office w/OneNote
- PDF Viewer
- psShutXP
- QuickGPS
- Total Commander
- NetCF 3.5
- ClearTemp
- KaiserTweak
ecltech said:
This is true. For a full featured ROM I think a based ROM might be better versus cooking in many apps. Here's a list that I think can be a good starting point for a base ROM. Some utilities, tweaks, visuals, etc. The rest can be managed by the user.
- Advanced Config
- GPS Test
- HTC Album
- HTC Camera (new version)
- NotePad
- Registry Editor
- Pocket RAR
- Office w/OneNote
- PDF Viewer
- psShutXP
- QuickGPS
- Total Commander
- NetCF 3.5
- ClearTemp
- KaiserTweak
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed. can we all agree this should be a common app set?
rzanology said:
agreed. can we all agree this should be a common app set?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats almost what I got apart from pdf viewer which i left out for user preference with adobe reader
the most popular apps don't have to be cooked into a ROM. every ROM can be a light or medium with everything else added as shared backup files using Sprite or SPB Backup. in another thread, some folks expressed reservations about my idea of Backup Install Packs, but i still think it could work. and no one would be forced to use them. it's something at least worth trying.
after flashing a new ROM, the ROM cooker or someone else could install demo versions of the most popular apps (HTC apps, Resco, SPB, SBSH, Opera, Palm Messaging, Kaiser Tweak, TCPMP and the plugins, etc.) onto their devices. They can then make a backup of their devices and make that backup available to other users. Then if someone installs the identical ROM, they could simply install the entire backup of those applications to their own devices. Users can keep the apps they want and register them with their own serials. They could then uninstall the rest.
that would be my idea. keep all ROMs medium and lite and let users customize them to full status with backup install packs.
PointUI drove me nuts, was nice and pretty, but in the way. Then again, I don't like the Cube either. Perhaps if I set up the cube I'd use it more, mainly for the contacts though - I don't use WMP or HTC's, I use TCPMP.'
I love the apps Dutty has, especially WKTask with its launcher and battery bar, quickmenu is awesome (without the large setting).
PocketCM has asked that it NOT be cooked in so...
IMHO a ROM should be usable for as much user as possible.
For one person S2U2 is a must-have application, but others just don't like it.
So a stable, fast and clean ROM should be the best for everyone.
Everyone can add his favorite apps, or don't add apps if you don't like them!
Just my opinion. (Of course I always go for the LITE variant, cause I just don't use a lot of apps)
What I would like to see:
Pretty much the default set of apps and tools in the stock ROM. Some of general use like pocketrar could be integrated but not much more.
Larger page pool.
What I absoltely don't want to see:
Too many UI changes, trial versions, bloated battery status apps and such.
Basically I just want the latest radio, OS and default apps all in one.
Stuff that's not likely to get upgrades for quite some time like the flash player and flash lite could preferebly be integrated but other than that I don't like too much tweaking, I just want the latest versions of the default stuff and then I do my own modifications and tweaks from there.
thanks for setting this up!! But i agree should install from CABs
No, They're updated too often to even think about cooking into the rom!
We need 1 stable EMPTY ROM. And cabs what have been edited for working on the 1 stable empty rom.
Hey all...
So I have been in the Kaiser forums for about a week now and have played around with some of the ROMs out there. My previous device was a PPC-6700. On that device there was a ROM and an Extended ROM. To the best of my experience, I never played with the ROM, but I did unlock the extended ROM and remove many of the bloatware cabs. I also set up some file (I can't remember the name, but it was similar to the UC option) which would allow my own CABs placed in the extended ROM to be auto-installed. In this way we were able to distribute the phones to employees with only the software we wanted (for instance, with our company cert pre-loaded and TCPMP to play back cisco VMs).
While I understand the interest in "cooking" a ROM to get all the latest and greates components (WM version, Radio, etc.) from the various ROMs into one uber-ROM, I'm not sure I see the advantage of adding in all the additional pieces of software.
From my viewpoint, I would think that a ROM should be as clean as possible, this would present a nice base for users to customize. Instead of "cooking" all the files for other components (plugins, menu replacements, voice command, SIPs, etc) into the ROM, why not just provide these as CABs either within the ROM or as a separate download alongside the ROM?
This would allow not only users to choose what to add, but also allow them to remove an installed CAB if they no longer want to use it or if a new one comes along.
I understand part of the allure of a cooked ROM is that the cook has ensured all the components work together... and in my scenario this would still be the case. The ROM would be qualified and shipped with a certain set of applications, but that doesn't mean they all need to be installed.
Another argument I hear for using a cooked ROM is that all the apps are already installed and it doesn't take time to reinstall all the apps. However, with UC, can you not just load all CABs onto an SD and have them all autoinstall? I am pretty sure you can write a file that will install a set of cabs even from local storage. While I understand that this might take a couple minutes more initially, I think the time saved in the long run would be equal or more. For instance, it might take me 10 minutes after I re-flash a base ROM to load another 15 CABs that I want. But, when a new version comes out of my application, or another application I want to install conflicts with something on there, I can easily uninstall the CAB. Small changes to the configurations can also be made without cooking a new ROM.
Now I fully appreciate all the work the cooks on this site have done. I think their work is great. What I am suggesting is an alternative methodology and one that is certainly not new. I am the type of person who likes a very clean build, but also enjoy the many features that are offered with some of the busier ROMs. I feel that having a base build and then simple a suite of approved or offered CABs make the whole process cleaner.
I am trying to understand how the mindset evolved here to make these feature rich ROMs instead of the alternative. The main argument I have heard is that it is quicker to just flash a ROM with all apps rather than load each one. As I have addressed that above, I don't think that the time savings are significant in comparison to the flexibility of modular CABs.
Perhaps there are additional advantages to the current approach that I have overlooked and I would be interested in hearing them.
tell me your thoughts?
wow......all that writing and all you are suggesting that cooks put out some clean roms? arent those already available?
lmfao flash your own clean rom, flash your own choice of radio, tweak on your own, etc...
Do you ever contribute anything worthwhile to threads or do you just prefer to be a sarcastic jerk?
I realize there are some clean ROMs out there...that wasn't the full scope of the post.
The "clean" ROMs are indeed what I would prefer, however that leaves the user going around hunting for all the applications and additions they desire. (And don't use the argument that the user is lazy if they don't spend the time to do this...after all that is what the "cooked" roms allow the user to be...lazy).
The alternative is the loaded ROM which has everything chosen by the cook. The user can't uninstall a component he may not want, or if it causes conflicts with something else.
The middle ground is what I am advocating...a clean ROM but offered with either "built-in" cabs or a separate repository. This would allow the user to install what they wanted (or install it all...then removing what they don't find useful). This would also allow easier updates in between major cooked releases.
I am not stating one way is definitively better, just that at some point someone decided to cook it all in rather then just offer the cab files, and I am looking for the advantage over my alternative.
What would even be nice (and if I knew how to code for PPC I would look to do it!) would be a little menu app that could manage installs from a repository either on your SD card or even online! So you could browse a list of available apps, versions, and descriptions and load it right up. These repositories would then be what the cooks spent time compiling, even offering "Suites" of applications that complement each other well.
As I stated in my original post I am very thankful for the work that others have contributed here and am not belittling their accomplishments in any way. I am just trying to understand how and why things have evolved to their current situation since, if I were to have the time and knowledge I see my framework as more workable (IMHO).
My personal opinion
That's one of the best presented arguments I've seen in a while Bengalih.
Completely agree with all your reasons for preferring a clean ROM over a loaded one - particularly the ability to update applications as and when a new cab is released. While this is the best answer for you (as you state) and in all probability every person with the willingness to go and look for the latest version of everything, I personally still prefer the loaded ROM. I simply prefer the least amount of time between a Hard Reset and being fully back up and running - in my case as long as it takes me to type in my Exchange server details. I try to cook in applications without any bugs that do what I want, so I won't need that newer version (just want it) and if a newer version does come out I can easily bake it into another ROM and be back up and running from start to finish within half an hour (mostly).
While you're completely correct in everything you say - I'm one of the fundamentally lazy people (seriously, check out my ROM's v1.3 intro - that's the word I use to describe why I built it) and so I tend to prefer loaded ROMs.
the way i see it, we cook a rom to have our ideal base. Things where we meet the minimum. The minimum for me must have HTC home, office, tomtom, the games that I always play, which is a whole variety, pim backup, and battery status. When I have my clean base, I just add my packages, which doesn't even take me long at all. If something screws up, we flash our cooked rom, and we don't have to worry about flashing a clean base and adding all our cabs. My roms include a lot of apps, but thats what I expect from my base. Having cabs doesn't seem as clean. I see your point, but cooking your own rom, you don't feel like trying anyone elses roms because the rom is exactly the way you want it.
Thanks for your reply Stu...a perfect example of how one can disagree with an opinion while being completely civil. It seems many other members of this forum can learn from your example.
I'm still not 100% sure I agree with the time you save by having everything cooked in. As you admit, if you want to upgrade an app you would basically cook a fresh ROM with the new package in it and take up to 30 mins. To be honest I would think that you could load ALL your cabs in well under 30 minutes (the first time) and then it takes about 1 minute to upgrade a cab if a new version comes out.
Of course it depends on how often you do each. If you really find yourself reloading your ROM alot...let's say once a week, you might have saved yourself 10-20 mins each time since you don't need to load CABs. However if you instead wanted to upgrade 4 apps, you have saved yourself 30 mins each time from having to recook the ROM.
I guess another thing I don't understand about the argument for the fully loaded ROM is how often are you really re-flashing your ROM? While I understand someone may do this frequently if they are testing ROMs, how often do you really need to re-flash your ROM once it is running with the apps you like (and/or cooked in)?
Also, I believe your opinion is slanted (and not in a bad way) because you obviously cook your own ROMs. Because of this you can customize it the way you want since you have total control. Some of the cooks on here seem to be people like you who then just turn over their ROM for others to use, while other cooks seem to be making ROMs to please the population. Not saying either is a bad thing...just what I notice.
I haven't cooked my own ROM yet (though I have read through the tutorials). I believe however that even after I have decided on everything I want that I won't cook a loaded ROM (if i cook one at all). I would prefer to just put all the CABs i use in a directory and if i ever rebuild just load them all back on, or possibly create a UC script to load them all off my storage card.
Although I still don't really see the advantage of the fully loaded ROM (unless of course you tend to A) reflash your ROM frequently (for what reason?) and B) Tend to not want to upgrade CABs frequently)... to each his own.
thanks!
thomassster said:
Having cabs doesn't seem as clean. I see your point, but cooking your own rom, you don't feel like trying anyone elses roms because the rom is exactly the way you want it.
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Click to collapse
It's funny you say that thomas... because i feel opposite. I feel that with the cooked ROMs it seems that many things just get dumped into the Windows directory instead of being put into individual Program folders. In addition, with no uninstall option it gives me a non-clean feeling
I see your point of course on just building the base the way you want and it makes sense if you don't feel you will want to upgrade an individual component.
I guess I am generally they type that like to go and get the newest version of an app if it is available and would find the process quicker if i could just upgrade the CAB.
Also, as stated above, once I find a config I like I don't know why I would reflash my ROM on any type of frequent basis.
There are additional reasons why certain applications cooked into ROMs aren't always your best alternative.
This is when certain applications (e.g., TomTom, MobiTV & XMRadio) require specific directories for installation. If cooked into the ROM, it will occupy twice the amount of space, since all files are placed in \Windows and through initflashfiles.dat get copied to other locations (e.g., \Program Files\MobiTV). Chefs that know about this avoid cooking these apps into their ROMs.
As for ROMs & which way is better, it's a matter of personal taste. Some folks prefer different levels of clean, and others prefer different levels of full. Some people won't flash unless a cube is included. It's pretty much why I release 8 different versions...
Thanks _Alex_,
Yes that speaks to my point to a degree.
It seems that most cooks don't use INITFLASHFILES.TXT to move applications to a specific directory (under \Program Files) and just let everything sit in \Windows. I was under the impression that INITFLASHFILES could MOVE the files and not just COPY, so thanks for clearing that up. Would it not be possible to execute some sort of script to delete the unnecessary files from Windows and add reg entries to allow programs to be listed in add/remove? Of course this would be additional work for the cook but would really provide the best of both worlds.
I realize you have alot of time and experience invested in your methods (which we all appreciate). But, it would seem to me that instead of cooking 8 ROMs you could cook a base and then offer CAB installation suites as I mention. With either a custom menu install app like I suggest, or UC scripts the process can be automated.
I am not necessarily suggesting that you change how you do things (since you do it so well D), but I just throw this idea out there in case any experienced cooks, or even newcomers agree with my method they are welcome to give it a try.
thanks for your input
bengalih said:
Thanks _Alex_,
Yes that speaks to my point to a degree.
It seems that most cooks don't use INITFLASHFILES.TXT to move applications to a specific directory (under \Program Files) and just let everything sit in \Windows. I was under the impression that INITFLASHFILES could MOVE the files and not just COPY, so thanks for clearing that up. Would it not be possible to execute some sort of script to delete the unnecessary files from Windows and add reg entries to allow programs to be listed in add/remove? Of course this would be additional work for the cook but would really provide the best of both worlds.
I realize you have alot of time and experience invested in your methods (which we all appreciate). But, it would seem to me that instead of cooking 8 ROMs you could cook a base and then offer CAB installation suites as I mention. With either a custom menu install app like I suggest, or UC scripts the process can be automated.
I am not necessarily suggesting that you change how you do things (since you do it so well D), but I just throw this idea out there in case any experienced cooks, or even newcomers agree with my method they are welcome to give it a try.
thanks for your input
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The method you describe has been mentioned before in other threads and quite possibly in its own thread. (The topic was UC packs, CAB packs or something like that)
There are three cons with that method:
Which cabs to include are subjective, so it's much easier for an individual to gather his/her own cabs
Creating CABs can be a serious pain in the ass, especially if you have 50 OEM packages that need converting and/or fixing for the specific ROM you're building
Cross ROM / device support, which frequently occurs when CABs are released.
On the other hand, with a cooked ROM, you know it works because the chef ( andhis beta tester(s) ) spent the time to test it on the same/similar device and on a specific OS build. ROMs give a better experience overall because of this testing.
FWIW, I've thought about doing what you mention above waaay back with my first UltraClean ROM, but as stated, serious PITA
*SHRUG* Perhaps I'll re-consider it in the future too...
edit: Alltheway used to offer UC packs. Not sure if he still does on his 4shared folder...
I have, personally, always preferred a clean ROM. Yes, it takes some time to set it up the way you want it but, at least, that way, I am not stuck with applications I do not use. If I were to cook a ROM, I would cook it the way I want it and then distribute it. Most cooks here do just that. I would be happy if every cooks released a clean ROM but that is not possible. If cooking ROMs were a full-time job for these cooks, then, I would definitely demand one. So, the way I feel it, if I am lazy or not good enough to cook my own ROMs then I should stick with what has been released and not complain.
@ sherpa:
Perhaps you should go back and re-read my posts. Not once did I "demand" or "complain" about anything that any cook has put out. In fact more than once did I thank and compliment them on all their work. The fact that you state you would "demand" a ROM a certain way if this was the cook's full time job show that it is you more than I who feel that they are, or might be, owed something from these contributors. I fully realize that many cooks are just putting out their own personal ROMs to the masses, but there are plenty of them out there that are also looking to please the community and offer something different. It was to these people that I thought my message might resonate and someone might want to try something like it. As _Alex_ suggested others have thought similarly at somepoint (including himself), so I am not alone in my thoughts. So before you accuse me of complaining, you should re-examine my own words and yours.
@_Alex_
Thanks for the thoughts. I see all the points you are making. However I would argue that point #1 and #3 happen whichever method you choose. A cook is subjective when choosing which CABs to add to a loaded ROM as well. In addition, a single ROM is also device dependent whether it is fully loaded or not. I feel your pain on point #2 about creating CABs... you helped me out in another thread as I created a CAB of the latest Remote Desktop client (with drive mapping support) from the latest AT&T test ROM. I agree that for the cook that would be an extra effort although in many cases most of the CABs are already out there.
Again, I am making a recommendation as to a new (or old?) way to approach this. It sounds like it would be good for the user, but more work for the cook. Of course the current methods are well established, so even if my idea has merits it would most likely encounter some resistance (and as seen already by some, accusations and ignorance.) I still like the idea of an online (or off) repository with a little front-end on the device. The repository can be loaded with approved CABs which can be loaded and unloaded off the device.
In the long run, I don't think it will matter much for me individually, as I will most likely use an available clean build, an RTM ROM, or maybe cook my own. But in any case, I will stick with CABs, and just hope that the ones i need are available or I am able to create them myself (which is exactly what I did for Remote Desktop).
thx!
Dude, I never accused you of complaining. When I wrote "not complain", I meant it to the general population who complain about what's included and what's not included.
No offense meant, no offense taken then. Based on how this thread started out I guess I was just in a defensive mind-set.
We all good
ok bro bengalish
you are just quiet right , i understand your point and i also think that thought cookers make a great work to interduce a room that is useful for everyone but it still better to get a clean room and that's because a simple reason , you will never be able to make everyone happy because simply everyone of us has his owen taste
but i would like to describe what a clean room means ..
i belive it should contain main updates that everyone will need i mean updates like camera , sound and system etc..
i have to thank you for this rich argue and much greeting for you
and i hope really everyone in this forum can show little respect and kindness for the others
cheers
Yes haam,
I would prefer to see more frequent ROMs that have all the base stuff updated (latest BT, VC, etc). And not have the cooks spend as much time with the additional applications as many people will want to do customization here. To the main point, I think there are alot more people out there who can cook an application CAB then cook a ROM with all the latest drivers properly implemented. In my framework the cooks can focus on an up to date clean ROM and the assistant chefs (many in the community) could work on CABs.
Of course I fully acknowledge that there is a segment here (cooks included) that they want everything loaded from the get go and don't really care about additional customization. If that is the majority then things will stay status quo. If not, maybe we will see more people working on UC or CAB packs or something to that effect.
thanks for everyone's thoughts!
I am absolutely new to ROM cooking stuff, I searched the Q & A section but did not find any thread related to the topics I was interested to know:
1. I want to incorporate certain registry tweaks in my ROM, which is somehow getting over written (to be exact I want to turn off all plugins except Home Screen plus plus clock ui and quick launcher). I have exported the registry settings and tried to incorporate in the ROM, but somehow they are getting over written. I want to know is there any way I can make a particular package (in this case my tweaks) get compiled into the ROM last, so that whatever I define there don't get over written.
2. I have found some great freeware like the finger friendly keyboard in this forum, when I try to integrate them into my ROM using Package Creator 5.4, it gives error saying duplicate files. however upon viewing the cab, I saw that the file names may be same, but they are placed in different folders , what is the way to do it.
Can some one help me out?
BTW I do not use any kitchen and I am talking about building for my Gene.
Thanks for the help.
No one wants to share his/her knowledge? Wow
So you’ve got a nice, shiny, new G1 and you’ve been hearing about all the amazing things you can do with it but you “MUST HAVE ROOT”. As far as you know, you’re not a plant (although you may feel as smart as one at this point) and beyond that, you have no clue what any of the terms or concepts mean in context.
Well, I’m bored so I’m going to try and clear some things up.
There are a lot of threads that cover each of these things but I’m going to try and put as many basics into one post as possible. Hopefully it can be a perfect start for n00bs and good reference in lieu of search for others. Please feel free to correct any semantic (or blatant) mistakes I make.
I’ll keep the glossary here and update terms as I add to this post:
Android OS - Like Windows Mobile but based on Linux, using a Java based front end.
Linux - Open Source operating system used instead of Windows XP/Vista, Mac OSX etc... it's free (as in beer).
Open Source (From Wiki) – Free and open source software, also F/OSS, FOSS, or FLOSS (free/libre/open source software) is software which is liberally licensed to grant the right of users to study, change, and improve its design through the availability of its source code.
Root (as in access)- root is like the administrator account on a windows machine (also referred to as su, or superuser). It allows you to have complete access to the underlying OS of a linux or *nix based machine. For the G1, it allows for the use of themes, native backup functionality, manually selecting which apps can utilize root access, auto-rotate screen, multi-touch in browser, moving applications/caches to the sd card etc...
Root (as in location)- the 'root' of a folder or drive is the top most area of that location. In windows, C:\ is the 'root' of your hard drive. The 'root' of your SD card just means you haven't moved into any subfolders.
Shell – (also heard as terminal, bash, command line) This is a loose definition, but it’s basically a command line to run specific actions against the OS.
Bootloader – the SPL and IPL of a flash based device. See jashu’s description here.
SPL (Secondary Program Loader) - You get to the SPL by holding the camera button while powering on your phone. This is where you flash NBH images. See bootloader above.
Recovery Mode - Holding the 'Home' key while while powering on the G1 will take you into Recovery Mode. From here you can perform a NANDroid backup, wipe your phone, access a command line and of course, flash your phone with an update.zip file.
RC## (or release candidate) – In context to the G1, it is an official release of Android from T-Mobile meant specifically for the G1 (not ADP).
ADP (Android Developer Phone) – A Google specific (or carrier non-specific) version of the G1/Dream that has root access by default and is meant for developers writing apps for the G1, or Android in general.
ADP vs. RC## - Neither RC’s or ADP versions are tied to their respective hardware. With the right bootloader, you can flash an ADP image to a G1 or an RC image to an ADP.
JFV1.## - Is a specific Version of a JesusFreke ROM. JesusFreke is a developer on this website that has graciously spent his time to modify the G1 OS to allow us to have root access to our phones. This gives us the ability to explore and modify our phones via a command line.
Cupcake – a development branch of the Android OS that contains many improvements that was merged into the master build of Android and is currently being released to new phones as Android 1.5.
Nandroid – a utility, accessible through Recovery Mode, that allows you to backup your phone and restore to the exact condition at backup.
Apps2SD – Applications moved to your SD card instead of internal memory. Some people like the extra room, some people don’t want to hassle with the partitioning.
Partition – just like the partitions that separate cubicles in an office, a partition separates parts of a drive.
File system – there are many. It’s basically a specific way of organizing data on a partition. FAT(32) is generally windows, ext2 is generally linux. This is not a hard and fast rule, just most common in context with what you’ll see here.
Scripts – scripts are text files that contain a list of commands to perform. Instead of typing each command out multiple times, a script can be run that will initiate all steps listed in the script.
Android SDK (System Developer’s Kit) – This includes all tools (sans fastboot) that a developer needs to create applications for the G1. It also has tools for interacting with the phone via a command line (ADB).
ADB - is a part of the SDK that allows you to run commands against the G1 in lieu of using the terminal on the phone itself.
Fastboot - is a tool used to flash system images (.img files) to the G1 from a command line on your pc. IMG files are created when you do NANDroid backups and official images can be downloaded from HTC as well. To get to fastboot mode on your phone, hold the back button while powering on.
When T-Mobile first released the G1, they left a bug in the Android OS that allowed anything typed on the keyboard to be passed on to a root shell running in the background. This really was a major flaw and needed to be patched. Unfortunately, when they patched it, they really patched it. RC29 was the last version that still had root. With all versions RC30 on, it was removed. It completely denied us any hope at modding our “open-source” phone.
Somehow, the base image for RC29 (dreaimg.nbh) was leaked and some enterprising developers were able get access to the bootloader and return an updated G1 (RC30+) to RC29 and use this to regain root.
Somewhere along this road, Google released the ADP (Android Developer Phone), which has root enabled and uses a specific SPL (EngineeringSPL) that was the base for the modified HardSPL that most of us use now. Nandroid was included to allow us to back up our phones and shortly after, JesusFreke modified RC30 to keep root and still provide the fixes and improvements that came with it.
I’m not sure where it all started, but eventually, LucidREM released a modified version of JesusFreke’s ROM. This made moving applications to SD painless and freed up system storage and now we can have 32 flashlights and 62 tip calculators installed all at once.
Apps2sd has been the bane of many peoples existence. It requires you to partition your SD card in to separate file systems (FAT32 to remain compatible with windows computers as a mass storage device and ext2 to maintain compatibility with the underlying linux OS of the G1). It also requires you to move your apps to the SD card and then create symbolic links (similar to a windows shortcut) from the internal location pointing to the SD card. Lots can go wrong in this process and that’s why LucidREM, MartinFick, MarcusMaximus04 and others have created tools to help simplify the process.
Now of course, to achieve any of the things you want to do with the G1, you have to interact with it. There are at least 2 main ways to do this. Some prefer to do everything from the phone itself using a terminal, while some prefer to use their PC with the phone connected via USB. Others avoid both of these, as best they can, and use other peoples apps or scripts anywhere they can get away with it. This is why you may find many different explanations of the same goal.
In order to interact with your phone from a pc, you need the Android SDK, which includes ADB. ADB is basically a linux shell that communicates with the G1. It is easier to copy and paste from threads and insert commands without worrying about making typos. It also requires it’s own bit of hoops to jump through (unless you use a mac or linux ;-)) and sometimes scares people away. It is highly recommended if you plan on hacking at your phone with any regularity.
Of course, there are some sadists (I once was one) that like to type line after line of code on a tiny keyboard and use the terminal directly from the phone. This is fun and it makes you feel 1337, but it also leaves a lot of room for error. Remember, you are a root user now, and any mistake you make can be potentially huge.
Well, that’s all for now folks. Please feel free to add, subtract, reorganize, correct anything I’ve said, in the comments. Also, I’ve tried to add links to any relevant threads and sources that I used in making this… this, whatever you wanna call it.
Thanks to everyone in this community for doing what you do. We are all geeks and enjoy doing this stuff. It's good to have so many talented people taking an interest in Android and the G1 in general. It is open source communites that keep technology interesting and exciting.
Thanks to Haykuro, TheDudeofLife, all the theme devs, and all the big players that I didn't reference in this post. Oh, and SolemWishing for the Timeline! It helped, thanks!
Reserved for future posting
Awesome post for nuubs. This should be permanently stickied!
Very cool. a couple terms you should add:
Fastboot
SPL
Recovery mode
(including what key strokes you need to hit to get into spl and recov. modes)
Thanks for the feedback!
I added SPL and Recovery... let me get my facts straight on fastboot and I'll add that tomorrow.
I don't know if it is the right place for it, but there seem to have been lots of question about "radio" or more specifically "radio update".
I feel smarter already.
I particularly found the file system explanation useful, i put it together that fat32 and the other were the two partitions but didnt realize which was for cpu. Not ready to attempt but definitely closer (although Im not even sure if I want to partition i have no need for all that space at this point) It doesnt affect performance does it?
Agreed. Good stuff. Definitely noob required reading material.
Yes, indeed a very nice guide for the beginners. Hell we ALL started that way...i remember when I first got this phone ~6 months ago (no root), and there was almost nothing about it, no support, no add-ons, no hacks, nothing. It was boring, and for me I was coming from a motorola (motomodders?), so going to something that was far superior but didnt have community support made me almost cry.
Though look now, 3 months later the market was filling up and being abundent of new stuff to play with (I didnt even try rooting for a while, until it became a lot more well-known [fixes and the likes], and themes became a necessity because they started to get really good), and now 6 months later people are hacking away figuring out soo much stuff about it. Amazing work everyone, seriously.
Something good: It all starts at the roots .
Well, I added info on fastboot and exceeded my 10000 character limit. Now I understand why so many people reserve the second post. lol...
I'll make some changes so I can add info about the radio, however the link to fastboot explains the radio fairly well.
Thanks for the feedback everybody, I hope this helps some people out.
skri11a said:
So you’ve got a nice, shiny, new G1 and you’ve been hearing about all the amazing things you can do with it but you “MUST HAVE ROOT”. As far as you know, you’re not a plant (although you may feel as smart as one at this point) and beyond that, you have no clue what any of the terms or concepts mean in context.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When i read those lines i knew that this post would be worth reading
It was a really nice n00b guide, though ive done some WiMo flashing so some of the terms sounded familliar i certanly learned a thing or two
I would say it should be stickied and put on the wiki - oh and perhaps list it in alphabetic order, it would make it more usefull as a "I dont understand this term so ill just look it up"-thread...
Perhaps you can get a mod to give you post #2 & #3
//M
DMaverick50 said:
I feel smarter already.
I particularly found the file system explanation useful, i put it together that fat32 and the other were the two partitions but didnt realize which was for cpu. Not ready to attempt but definitely closer (although Im not even sure if I want to partition i have no need for all that space at this point) It doesnt affect performance does it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad it helped. As far as performance issues, I've had none. In fact, when I was skating along with 12-19MB of free space, my phone would crall and cause me all sorts of grief. Since I've moved the apps and dalvik-cache, it's been very responsive and reliable. That being said, get a GOOD sd card. I see a lot of people having problems using cheap or < class4 sd cards.
m.klinge said:
When i read those lines i knew that this post would be worth reading
It was a really nice n00b guide, though ive done some WiMo flashing so some of the terms sounded familliar i certanly learned a thing or two
I would say it should be stickied and put on the wiki - oh and perhaps list it in alphabetic order, it would make it more usefull as a "I dont understand this term so ill just look it up"-thread...
Perhaps you can get a mod to give you post #2 & #3
//M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol... I'm glad you liked it.
And thanks for the tips. I'm gone for the weekend, but I'll alphabetize it when I get back. Not sure what I can do about getting it stickied but I'll look into the wiki on monday too.
can you add busybox
in the nandroid instructions it requires busybox but I didnt see an explanation for what busybox is. Thanks and this thread has already been very helpful for me
speaking of stickying this....
who is in charge of stickies? A lot of stickable topics aren't stickied and a lot of topics that should be unstickied are still stuck...
DMaverick50 said:
in the nandroid instructions it requires busybox but I didnt see an explanation for what busybox is. Thanks and this thread has already been very helpful for me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey sorry for the late reply... Been pretty busy since Friday.
I'll try and add this to the first post shortly. I may have to remove some of the history lesson if I can't get a mod to give me the second/third post.
BusyBox - This is a single executable utility that contains many common Linux commands, instead of having an individual executable for each command. As far as I know this is built into all of the JF releases, as well as Dude's. It is also usable in the JF recovery console by hitting alt-x. To use busybox, just type "busybox" in front of the command you want to use (i.e. #busybox ls -L --to get a list of your directory).
AbsoluteDesignz said:
speaking of stickying this....
who is in charge of stickies? A lot of stickable topics aren't stickied and a lot of topics that should be unstickied are still stuck...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you figure this out, let me know. I haven't tried to PM a mod or anything but I'd still be curious to know what the magic requirements are.
This will definitely help a lot of newcomers. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
Way to get stickied! Now I can stop copying pasting updates worrying I might not be able to find the post...
skri11a:
BusyBox - This is a single executable utility that contains many common Linux commands, instead of having an individual executable for each command. As far as I know this is built into all of the JF releases, as well as Dude's. It is also usable in the JF recovery console by hitting alt-x. To use busybox, just type "busybox" in front of the command you want to use (i.e. #busybox ls -L --to get a list of your directory).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't "Unix utilities" be more correct than "Linux commands"?
And saying Android is "like windows mobile" is blasphemy! You can't compare Unix to Micro$oft Windoze (Yes, that's a very sophisticated and mature way to express my hatred of the OS )! >:|
Anyway, it's good that you wrote this, theres probably a lot around here not having a clue about how things work in the world of unix
ABANDONED
Hi! Does anyone here use Linux desktop distributions in chroot environment on Android device?
I am developing wayland protocol server for Android devices. If anyone is interested in checking my project, latest version of apk is always available here:
ftp://ftp.drivehq.com/mogryph/sparkle/
Currently I am only focused on running Xwayland as client. Also apk supports audio output.
Simplest instruction:
1. Android 6 or newer required, busybox required, root required
2. Prepare linux distribution in directory, image or on partition. Make sure you have Xwayland installed in it. Make sure you specify which DE to run (or at least xterm) in ~/.xinitrc
3. Install and start sparkle.apk
4. Press "edit user.sh", uncomment (remove #) line starting with start_generic_container. Change rest of this line to match your device:
first arg - image or partition where distribution is installed. If distribution is installed in directory and mouting is not needed, leave this arg unchanged.
second arg - mount point or directory with distribution. If you use mounting (first arg), this arg can be left unchanged.
third arg - name of the user which will be used to start Xwayland and DE. Its better to specify non-root. Also this is the user who must have .xinitrc in his home dir (see step 2).
5. Save user.sh and click "Start".
6. Any problems and crashes will be reflected in the log.
If you want audio output:
1. Compile and install driver from pcm_sparkle.tar.gz in your distribtion
2. cp 1.asoundrc ~/.asoundrc
If you have blinking problem, change upload_mode from 1 to 2 in settings. If you have bad performance, setting no_damage to true may help, but in most cases no_damage=false is better. Fastest upload mode is 0 (if it works).
If you don't trust me and don't want to give sparkle root permissions (I perfectly understand this) you don't have to. Also you can do without busybox.
But in this case, you need to understand and do a lot of things. Check sparkle's user.sh to get idea about what needs to be done. Basically:
1. You need to make /data/data/com.sion.sparkle/files accessible from inside chroot container. You can use bind bound.
2. Make sure you have tmpfs mounted over /tmp in container.
3. You may need to change selinux context on /tmp to match sparkle's context or disable SELinux.
4. You need to create new directory in /tmp, symlink sparkle's wayland socket from /data/data/com.sion.sparkle/files/wayland-0 to this dir. And export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR to point to this dir. Dir must be (ch)owned by user who will be running Xwayland and DE.
5. After all this, you can try to start Xwayland and your DE.
new version
New version
rgho.st/8Fbz64Rxj
Added x86 and x86_64 support. Actually it is rewritten almost from scratch but x86 support is the only thing others can notice...
Hello! This project is interesting. I tried you app and it works on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 4X(chromium and glmark from chrooted environment works very well)! Can you publish source code on Github, because it really interesting project?
Also I'm interested, please post it on github!
Did you put this up on github or move this thread? Looks very interesting.
1
Argh, sorry, I decided to abandon this project. You are free to delete thread. Also no copyleft-licensed components were used so I don't have to bother releasing sources.
Hentacler said:
Argh, sorry, I decided to abandon this project. You are free to delete thread. Also no copyleft-licensed components were used so I don't have to bother releasing sources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check your PM please!
1
Hello again.
For last two weeks I was rewriting it from scratch (yes. again... yes, third time).
Probably need another week to make it stable.
Currently I am not sure it runs on any device except my own 5-year old phone (LineageOS 14).
I will maintain last version here:
ftp://ftp.drivehq.com/mogryph/sparkle/
There is no English documentation, but you can see script "user.sh" to get idea about how to start xwayland. In most cases it should be enough to edit few lines in that script to make it work on another device. If you execute this script on your device with "install" argument, it is supposed to place itself into sparkle's directory and sparkle is supposed to run it ("start" function) automatically. Sparkle doesn't request root unless script does.
Here is video of sparkle working:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOSFYxCF7Q8
But it seems that KDE + video recording was too much for my old phone
Still, if you going to see video, don't close it until 2:00 where I turned of composition which caused lags.
Also on device everything looks much smoother than on video, even after 2:00.
When I watch fullscreen (1280x720) video on my device, sparkle + xwayland together add just 5% of CPU load (20% load of single core).
Thats it I guess... I tried to to discuss sparkle on 4pda.ru (russian forums), but got very bad reception. "xsdl is perfect, dont reinvent the wheel" they say. So I started to hate humanity and I decided to make sparkle personal project. Also this is last time I am solving reCAPTCHA to leave post on XDA.
Still alive
We are still alive. I've changed first post to reflect actual state. Now sparkle supports audio, auto-mouting containers and is lot more stable.
Yet there are still many things I want to improve in sparkle's core before adding new functions.
Also there are few demo videos on ftp.
Amazing!
Working great on my redmi 6 pro. Stock miui 9.9.3 rom. With linuxdeploy and sparkle from your ftp. No lag on visual and sound. My Linux distribution is alpinelinux arm64 arch.
Since first time I see your posting on 4pda. I'm interested in it. And finally it's on xda.
Thanks dev.
---------- Post added at 02:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 AM ----------
For anyone interested in the topic. Please follow the instructions in documentation from ftp. And Translate it to eng from rus.
This sounds amazing! Just curious, is it related to https://github.com/twaik/sparkle ?
I now have it working very well on my Samsung Tab S3 using Xwayland and a tiling window manager. Firefox runs amazingly well!
Is it meant to be used only with Xwayland or will it also work with native Wayland applications?
BTW, I think if you open sourced this project and promoted it a bit, it could become quite popular. It's basically the first way to run X11 GUI applications on Android devices at full speed. If you set up a donation link, you could also get compensated for your time and effort. I'll personally contribute $20 if it's open sourced, and I'm sure others will chip in as well.
robsmith11 said:
This sounds amazing! Just curious, is it related to https://github.com/twaik/sparkle ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for feedback. Nice to hear that someone managed to start this thing
Twaik's repository is clone of my very very old version of sparkle. I made that version years ago when I was just starting to learn linux and C++. Sparkle was rewritten from scratch two or three times since that version. And (I believe) current version is much better.
Regarding making it open source... Few months ago I had to find real job. Can't spend much time on personal projects any more. But I have my own strange programming style and my own vision of what sparkle should be. Not sure I want others to paint on my picture. It's probably all because of Twaik! I hate how he used old open source version of sparkle. He did terrible things to it, outraging all my beliefs Sorry!
P.S.: Yesterday I've uploaded another apk to my ftp. The file is called "sparkle-testing.apk". This version is much newer and has many fixes. But I've also changed to many things since tested version including some fundamental changes. No guarantee it will run at all on other devices. Interest is mega low and I get no test reports at all.
Hi Hentacler, I've just found your project - it looks really promising. Unfortunately, the only link currently working on this thread is to github. Is this project still live?
I have a samsung galaxy note 10+, and am using it as a laptop replacement. In addition to the android apps using Samsung Dex (Samsung's desktop solution), I have several linux distributions installed inside a chroot using userLand - so far, its working great. I'd be keen to give you project a try if it's still live, and am happy to help out with testing from my device.
Re open source - while I like your project, I'm not super interested in investing time into something that's not open sourced - I appreciate your concerns about wanting to maintain the direction, but having transparent development is pretty important to me. Is Twaik's fork of your project a better place to go?
Cheers.
tillum said:
Hi Hentacler, I've just found your project - it looks really promising. Unfortunately, the only link currently working on this thread is to github. Is this project still live?
I have a samsung galaxy note 10+, and am using it as a laptop replacement. In addition to the android apps using Samsung Dex (Samsung's desktop solution), I have several linux distributions installed inside a chroot using userLand - so far, its working great. I'd be keen to give you project a try if it's still live, and am happy to help out with testing from my device.
Re open source - while I like your project, I'm not super interested in investing time into something that's not open sourced - I appreciate your concerns about wanting to maintain the direction, but having transparent development is pretty important to me. Is Twaik's fork of your project a better place to go?
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ftp://ftp.drivehq.com/mogryph/sparkle/
Link to FTP should work and there you can get two versions:
sparkle.apk - old version, but confirmed to work by 3-4 people.
sparkle-testing.apk - latest version, but only briefly tested by me.
I don't ask anyone to invest anything... Sparkle doesn't request root access or any other dangerous permissions (unless you enable automatic container mounting and starting) so it's safe to try for anyone who wants.
Btw, somewhere between these two versions I've replaced BASH container initialization script with LUA version. That was probably a bad idea. LUA script is harder to start directly as root and hacks I used may not work (currently may even cause application freeze if root access is denied). Going to revert to BASH probably. But this only touches people who want sparkle to mount container and launch everything automatically on single button press.
p.s.: Why I need to solve captcha every time I post something?
Thanks for the new release! I've updated and everything seems to be working without any changes on my Samsung Tab S3 with chroot and Arch Arm Linux.
Your changes also solved the flickering for me! The old version would flicker the screen whenever my keyboard's trackpoint activated, but it's not flickering at all any more. Performance seems to be about the same.
I think this could be quite popular, but not many people know about it. Perhaps a post on Hacker News or Reddit would raise awareness.
I understand your position on open source and maintaining control. One idea if you haven't already considered it is releasing the code with a restrictive license that forbids any forks. But either way, I'm enjoying being to properly use X11 on my tablet.
BTW, have you tried any native Wayland compositors? I don't really understand the Wayland ecosystem that well. I gave Sway a brief try, but it didn't seem to work. I've only been using XWayland.
@Hentacler Thanks for your reply! Very keen to get this working, but having a few issues. I'm unsure how to configure the user.lua file - I'm using your latest apk.
I have a non-rooted device, and am running archlinux under termux. Works fine with xsdl. I have installed xorg-server-wayland for X11. I'd appreciate any advice you have.
@robsmith11 Are you able to share how you got this working on Arch? Thanks!!!!
tillum said:
@Hentacler Thanks for your reply! Very keen to get this working, but having a few issues. I'm unsure how to configure the user.lua file - I'm using your latest apk.
I have a non-rooted device, and am running archlinux under termux. Works fine with xsdl. I have installed xorg-server-wayland for X11. I'd appreciate any advice you have.
@robsmith11 Are you able to share how you got this working on Arch? Thanks!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure it is possible to use sparkle without root...
Sparkle makes it's directory accessible for everyone (chmod 777). Before Android 8 or 9 this was enough and xwayland from termux was able to connect to sparkle. Here is how people used to start it:
export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/data/data/com.sion.sparkle/files
Xwayland
But newer versions of Android brought more restrictions and termux can no longer connect to sparkle. These new restrictions are implemented using SELinux if you know what it is. Applications now have different security contexts.
But that is not all. Newest versions of android brought even more terrible meaningless restrictions effectively "killing" applications like termux and many others.
In short, from now one applications are not allowed to execute code (binary) that comes from "untrusted" sources. Termux used to download a lot of such code from it's own repositories. And now it can't. We can't even unpack binaries from assets.
So I can only help with rooted devices.
P.S. Please forgive me, but I am leaving this website. Making people solve recaptcha every time they want to post something is unacceptable level of contempt.
My mail: [email protected]
Thanks for that, will have a play. I could always just root my device. Weird about recaptcha, not having this issue. Currently through termux I have access to the whole sdcard, and am able to download packages (and distros) in it - will have a play and see what else is possible.
@tillum
I basically just followed the instructions on the first post for using Sparkle without busybox. I didn't need to modify the Lua scripts.
I'm guessing SELinux may be a problem without root. I'll try setting it up without root when I have a chance later.