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People,
I don't know about you guys, but as an engineering student I use a lot Latex to produce documents (articles, presentation, reports, etc...). However seems that a good app to latex edition is lacking in the android world. The hard time to deal with a latex document is having a high number of files and sub-files, and need to be compiled in order to get the final result, a pdf ou dvi file.
Testing alternatives, I found that the compile part is easy, since, as done in the iOS, the best alternative to the 1GB program needed is a remote compilation in a server. Some schools have it, some web applications already use it, and even verbetex (the only LaTex app, besides its limitations) use this approach. For instance I leave you a great project, but a little bit stoped this days..
http://dev.latexlab.org/
The main limitations all the apps and web-service present is file manipulation and text editing. Neither can be good in both, wich is essential. The project I showed could be great if, besides google doc integration (allowing cooperation), I could easily manage the file as its possible in http://www.scribtex.com/. However, the best integration in file manager would be using dropbox, where easily one can add files from desktop, or web browser, editing in normal Latex tools, or in the fly in our tablet or webservice.
Besides a webservice seams a good alternative in desktop, android browser is still not so easy to use. So a dedicated interface, wich allows multiples tabs, to edit multiple files, syntax highlighting, files manipulation with integration and sincronization with dropbox, and some other text edition addons with the possible to online compilation in a remote server would be a very nice app for our android, and mostly for TF since it have a dock.
I don't have for now programming knowledge to promote this type of project. Figuring current available apps using dropbox, remote servers, and text manipulation, I assume necessary tools are available, so I let year a challenge to the brilliant guys in XDA, offering me to test, and when finished to buy it (if it would be a generic code editor for differente languages, allow dropbox and ftp integration, for sure that 10 bucks or more would be a good price for start).
Hope some one respond to my call!
I can think of another use for Latex..........
SORRY! HAD TO SAY IT!!!
I also happen to be a student who regularly use LaTeX for academic purposes. In my opinion, the best solution that exists now on the Transformer is using Vim for editing the tex files, and using sftp to upload it to a server and then ssh to compile it. The later parts can be put into one shell script, and can be executed within vim each time you want to compile the file that you are editing.
As to the editor itself, vim is exactly what I use on my regular laptop for LaTeX editing. I can hardly think of any editor better suited for the job (though some might suggest emacs, but that is another story). Someone has compiled vim for android and you can find it by googling "vim android". I have tried it myself and found it quite usable with the dock. You can even use the excellent vim-latex plugin to help you simplify the editing of latex files.
Vim is too hardcore for me I have it already setup, but not all latex guys like to do it in the terminal
Hello,
While I am a huge supporter of the oongoing work of porting Ubuntu to the ASUS Transformer, I am more interested in seeing a native X11 Implementation. I run Debian as my primary OS and would love to be able to access native applications without the need for VNC. I do love Honeycomb, which is why I wont go pure Ubuntu
DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A DEV
I'm pretty sure there's a very good reason that this isn't possible. If so, it would have been implemented from the G1/Dream onward. I think it has something to do with the fact that Android really only uses the Linux kernel and thus DisplayFlinger (the video output module) has absolutely zero interoperability with X11. Also, the Android system structure (for lack of the correct term) just plain doesn't allow for something like X11 to exist.
There's pseudo-workarounds which involve having a Debian shell on your phone/tablet and then accessing it via a VNC app... but it takes over the whole screen, so you may as well just be booting into a Ubuntu partition.
http://www.androidauthority.com/run-x-windows-x11-on-your-android-smartphone-2176/
(I never got it working on any phone I own/owned though)
Android and X11 do not work together for several reasons;
First is instances owning the fb, only one is allowed to own the framebuffer, this is why on your computer you can't have more than one VT running X. The framebuffer is owned by the DisplayFlinger, Androids own XWindowManager, the flinger and X11 are not interchangeable, it is one or the other and Android apps will not run on X.
The second is libc, Android does not implement libc, but instead its own mutated library called bionic this means compiling with bionic, statically compiling, or forgetting about it. Forgetting about it is the easiest to do here because statically compiling will end up with a 100+mb xserver, which we don't want, compiling with bionic has two issues one, stripped binaries will not run on bionic, so you might as well be just running Androids display manager, and the second issue is as above.
Couldn't someone emulate a framebuffer in an android app and have X take over that framebuffer and make the app's screen be the display on this emulated framebuffer?
EDIT: I guess what I am trying to describe is that you could set up X to write to a different framebuffer than android and make an app to display this framebuffer while still keeping the android UI.
A X server for android is available.
Search github for androix-xserver. The fork of webbbn has a branch containing a lot of recent developments. Only problem with the xserver for android is building the thing. It has a lot of dependencies. It should be beter documented.
There's really no reason one could not implement a full X server against standard Android SurfaceFlinger Surfaces. Though what might be more interesting would be a library-ized version to make it simpler to bundle app + ui into a self-contained "native" Android app package.
It's just a bunch of work -- not particularly glamorous or exciting, unless you're really into porting or writing X servers -- but especially with the NDK these days supporting native apps, access to surfaces, and access to openGL, all the necessary bits are out there to make it possible
Writing a X server program that works e.g. more or less like a vnc client is likely more fun than useful. You can get around the bionic issue in many cases, but for practicle value you're just not able to make it work without z lot of effort. Better off using the vnc/x thing, a debian chroot, and an android vnc client to local host.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
I'm gonna speculate and say that it just needs to display a window on the surface flinger and render the Xorg api stuff.. also poll for taps.. doesn't seem like it would be too complex... maybe more complex to have it functioning well on every device.
Vnc will never be better than native X even if it is currently more convienent. I find it frustrating when people say something is not likely because it is tedious or trivial.
Just the fact that someone is actually working on an implementation suggests that it will happen eventually. When it is finished and works.. guess who is gonna be the only ones with the software that can do it!
They're where the people who ask these questions will eventually find themselves.
TBH, the idea of running an xserver with a chroot'd distro on my tab makes me all tingly.
tiiiiingly, kthx!
Sent from my TI-89 silver edition
The rendering stuff is one thing, issues with auth, environment, etc are another. It's slightly more complicated than filling pixels. Something you might also want to consider, doing it with a real X rather tha n the x/vnc trick, is pretty much the same. At best versus writing your own vnc client, it would *maybe* have better performance, rather than just an easy way tobsetup a .xinit/.xsession file.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
no me gusta.
Another approach
Another approach might be this
Search for X11 server with VNC backend in the market place (not allowed to post URLs)
market.android.com/details?id=com.theqvd.android.x
It is an X server with VNC backend.
It's probably just a bundle of Xvnc compiled for Linux/ARMv5 and an Android VNC client that knows how to connect to it smoothly. Basically packing what people already do, in an app.
I would also worry if the C code was replaced with a 100% Java xvnc port.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
vnc x server and android
While I would love to see a native x server on android, the only way it would work is if there was a port of an android exec environment. Then you can integrate the keyboard, market and etc. But until then the UI is just... Unacceptable. HOWEVER I have been effing with it a lot and realized the best way to run Linux applications for now is to skip the desktop environment... Run xinit via xvfb vnc (tightvncserver) and to make it capture by window at your phones native res. Set options economic translate. This will run any non multimedia application B E A utifully
And then their are freaks like me that get by fine with a terminal emulators UI lol
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Hi, another approach here. I think it's a native x11 server (no chroot, no vnc) written in java... there are no binaries though, only sources. If there is any dev here willing to build an apk from sources for us it would be great...
x11
afaik we can run several x11 in pc with different vts, and since x11 is a server its completely possible to write something that listens to tcp and draw stuff grab events and send tcp stuff on a single android app despite that being rly similar to vnc or rdp except vnc works on image buffers,x11 its a bit more complex... i suppose .
i use every day a winxserver at work completely independent of os window manager concluding that would be possible on a android app, (probably lots of work)
android-x11-server looks good, I'm surprised how far along it is but I'm sure the developer has a reason for not putting a downloadable APK up yet.
Something like X11->VNC works like keeping a copy of the frame buffer and figuring out what to encode and send to the VNC client for rendering. X11 and RDP I believe are more command driven, but I'm not sure about RDP. Some kind of native X11 server would rock.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
I've just released an open-source X server for Android, also available through the Android Market. Details at my20percent.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/android-x-server/
Note that it's still in beta, and doesn't come with a window manager, although in theory you can run a window manager remotely.
Regards,
mkwan
Anybody here who can download mkwan's android-x11-server from the market and attach it here?
Thanks
So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
----
Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
----
These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
----
In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!
Blue6IX said:
So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
----
Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
----
These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
----
In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regardless of what impression you may have, it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to run MSWin on ARM hardware natively. The reason for this is that MSWin is x86 and ARM is... ARM. The approach used in the first link is to use BOCHS (pronounced "Box"), which is a VIRTUAL HARDWARE EMULATOR. It requires a host operating system to be functioning in the background, in this case Linux.
As for Ubuntu... well sure. No problem. Its Linux and the phone runs Linux. Not that big of a stretch to replace the Android parts with GNU.
Note that NONE of this is any kind of "great breakthrough". Bochs has been around for a VERY long time. First OPEN SOURCED in early 2000. Yeah, 12 years ago. As for Ubuntu... well I suppose that the main reason that most people aren't making a native android replacement out of ubuntu, is that not many people are all that interested in it. Cute in theory, but not practical.
What would be a more worthy project would be to upgrade android to GNU libraries and utilities. This would afford us an actually USEFUL balance between the two. Also the ability to run X *through* android without having to do stupid things like VNC. Have the proper interface ***AS AN ANDROID APPLICATION***, leaving Android to work (i.e., phone calls, etc.) while simultaneously offering the standard Linux applications.
My thought though, is that this is becoming less and less important. Firefox is on Android now, the Document foundation has announced LibreOffice for Android -- supposed to be by late 2012 to early 2013... GIMP has no place on Android... That certainly covers the basics.
Appreciate the post. I didn't have time to dig into it too deeply, so took it at face value for the impression I got. Happened to come across it in passing and didn't want to lose track of something vital to the future dev of a project like this on the doubleshot. (but definitely this doesn't belong in the dev section at this time - just clutter there.)
I was hoping people would add to it, especially the way you have, who had more of an understanding of what's going on there - I didn't realize that it was a virtual environment for the windows stuff, but it did seem to good to be true.
Even if no one responded I figured the thread would get pushed down out of the way, but still be here when I got the time to come back to it.
----
My reason for running native linux on the device itself is to be able to use the Android SDK and tools without needing a computer to do so. I have 2 of these phones and a Nook Color. The NC has USB host support, so I could plug the doubleshot into it without frying either device. (yes, i'm blending android and linux concepts here - but usb host support in android shows that it's capable of doing it)
Even from one doubleshot to the other I could use wifi adb for a lot of stuff without plugging them into each other through USB and frying the phones. So that would be a victory as well.
The lack of a hardware charging circuit in the doubleshot makes the worry of frying the phones a big deal, power transfer through USB is a big hurdle to jump in management.
Beyond that - the doubleshot is powerful enough on hardware specs to be able to compile a kernel, but that's not gonna happen through a virtual linux install because the overhead is too much. A native install might just be able to do it though. Won't know until I try, but it's worth the work to get to the point of trying, even if it doesn't work out.
The Nook Color probably won't be able to compile a kernel - it's asking too much from a device not really able to handle that.
Getting what I mentioned above to work would mean I could do all my dev work with what fits in my pocket, and let me keep working wherever I am.
I do like the idea of an app to work with this through Android itself - but I don't see how I could use the SDk and variety of user-created tools without a native linux install. Worth pursuing either way though.
If anyone has anything to add, i'd be welcome to hear it. Just understand this is not a project i'm working on or actively pursuing right now - but fully intend to down the line.
Actually blue. There is a thread somewhere that has a step by step on installing ubuntu on gingerbread. I meant to add it when I added the backtrack link. For some reason I didn't, I probably forgot, I actually think the link for it is in the backtrack thread in the sticky.
If I do find it ill let you know.
Sent from my ICS Splashed using Tapatalk
Experts, Developers, Fellow Gentlemen (& perhaps, some Lassey?),
PURPOSE:
To request, collect, organize, and clearly present 3 types of information related to BOTH android application development (for sale on the market) and ROM cooking (using scripts, kitchens, etc.).
INFO REQUESTED:
(1) Compare the relative the PROs and CONs of Android Dev. using:
Windows with Cygwin and Eclipse
Windows with a Linux VM (Eclipse installed on the VM)
Mac with Eclipse
Mac with a Linux VM (Eclipse installed on the VM)
Linux on bare metal (using Eclipse, of course, or the NDK)
(2) If you have used two or more of the above for Android Dev., please describe your experiences and insights, the primary differences, similarities, tips and pitfalls, etc.
(3) Given a fairly large budget to buy your own laptop for use in Android application development and ROM cooking, please RANK the above 5 choices in order from your 1st (best and most desirable) choice to your 5th (last and least desirable) configuration.
Best Regards,
Paul
Honestly your best bet if you want to do android ROM development, and not developing apks, then your best bet is to dual boot your laptop with widows and ubuntu. I thouhgt that you were wanting to develop apks, since you mentioned the SDK and eclipse, that is really more for app development, rather than ROMS and android open source it self.
The reason for ubuntu is that all the of utilities all work with ubuntu, they can work with other distros, but ubuntu seems to be the one most flock to.
The reason not to use a VM is because it can have issues connecting to the USB connection with your phone attached.
Mac will work, if you really want to go down that path, but it is more cumbersome to get things to work "well" as BSD is the underlying kernel, but you have to install an Xwindows environment to use most of the Android utilities, and that can be a pain to get working for someone not really experienced with linux AND OS X.
Windows with cygwin is a possibility, but again, more of a pain that just dual booting ubuntu.
+1 for dualboot
I'm definitely not a developer but I do know PC's. Jim's right you won't get any odd b.s. if you partition and install Ubuntu.
For the small amount of rom tweaking/developing I have done I use windows with cygwin. With baksmali and smali for decompiling dex files.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Me too. I get by with Windows7 and Cygwin...
I know that I will eventually have to at least set up dual-boot with Ubuntu if I want to get involved in "real" development (even that would freak out my wife though - having options at boot on our shared family computer... gonna need a separate dev machine I guess)
Sent from my mind using XDA
I have worked through both windows and linux (ubuntu mostly), and I can give you some info about macs too, but I don't have actual experience there.
Windows
Pros:
More software for things other than android development, so if you want just one OS it may be the way to go.
If you are familiar with it already, it will make your life easier as you won't have to learn about a new OS.
Not much more really.
Cons:
most developers use linux, so you will be a bit alone i the android dev world meaning possible less support.
Not as well supported officially or not.
Overall:
Windows will probably be just fine for app development, as the sdk and eclipse both run fine.
You will have trouble with rom development. Android is based on the linux kernel, so it does not play well with windows.
You can use Cygwin, but you will have mixed results. It is not perfect. Some things just won't work unless you have linux, and quite honestly it is probably easier to get ubuntu working right.
Ubuntu
Pros:
It's FREE!!!!!
most official support
It's what most devs use, so unofficial support is good
Most utilities are built for it.
Cons:
Can be tough to learn if you are used to windows
not as many apps for other things, but that is getting better.
Over all:
By far the best for development. you are just gonna be better off in general. your best bet is to dual boot, which is really easy, and you can always use windows when you want. A virtual machine is an option, but you will have issues with certain things, like usb support. A VM will also require more cpu power to do everything so it is not a good idea on low power machines.
Hardware
Linux is much lighter than windows, so a low power computer will be better off with it.
You should be fine with anything that is not total crap for app development. Basic rom development should be fine in the mid to low end. If you are getting into more serious stuff like building up android source you will want some serious power. I have 4GB or ram and an intel i3 processor (2.13 gHZ dual core 4 thread) and that barely cuts it. compiling cm7 takes a couple hours and it runs at 100% cpu usage the whole time and gets hotter than hell.
You will need a pretty big hard drive for some stuff. The AOSP source is huge. all my android stuff takes about 28GB.
Over all
your best bet is to dual boot windows and Ubuntu Linux on at least a decent PC. you will be happier with something with a slightly higher end CPU.
I use 64-bit Ubuntu, it's just so much better and everything just runs natively! I mean some of those kitchens and tools are only for windows, but it doesn't really bother me because I dont use them
If you want to learn to write code, get ubuntu and jump head first into it.
So after playing with my Surface for 5 days now, it is obvious there is a lot of capability in the back end through the Desktop. II have networked printers, and drives at both home and office going, streaming content etc. It is very capable for what it is, way beyond any other Ipad and Android tablet out there. So it seems to me it is just a matter of time before some XDAer figures out a way to unleash it and possibly load other programs (non-RT) programs some way. We know the official MS word is no, but it seems to me it is a fully capable Win8 machine that just has some goierners on it and limited processing power, just waiting to be cracked.
Am I just dreaming?
I would love to see this happen. The one thing holding me back from purchasing one. I'd love a Windows 8 Pro version tablet at the Surface RT pricing but wouldn't we all...
I dont think rt can run x86 app properly. Because the cpu is not as good as x86 core. I am interested in porting rt to compatiable device such as tergra 2 and 3 pad.
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liu2002 said:
I dont think rt can run x86 app properly. Because the cpu is not as good as x86 core. I am interested in porting rt to compatiable device such as tergra 2 and 3 pad.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it's necessarily about the Tegra being "as good" as an x86 - the issue is that you'd need an emulator, or the source for the x86 app which you'd then need to re-compile for ARM. I believe MS made a developer toolkit available that allows simpler conversion from x86 to ARM but it's still up to the app vendors to do it.
In theory, the same code could compile for both x86/64 and ARM (RT), but VS2012 will not allow you to compile an ARM desktop app. There is no legit way to write/compile a desktop app on RT. Its an arbitrary BS limitation put in place by MS. You cannot side load apps, everything must come through the MS store, RT enterprise being an exception... which doesn't help us. And the MS store will only offer Metro apps. MS office shows that's desktop apps are fully possible, albeit recoded/recompiled for ARM, but MS will not allow it. In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Skitals said:
In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you say that?
Because its not allowed, only metro style apps published through the app store are allowed. Even if you compile compatible desktop software, the OS won't run it. Its a closed sandbox.
At best we can hope for a "homebrew" community to compile open source software, and find some hacks to get it running.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Hello,
I’m a happy owner of the Surface RT and I just wanted to add my 2c.
I think that Metro UI is great for tablet, but lacks apps !
So I cannot understand why Microsoft didn’t include .Net on this platform ! I think the main goal and the first “Homebrew” must be recompilation of Mono for ARM. As this will allow us develop a lot of programs, quickly and using “good” tools (Visual )
I just started to study WinRT and I’m already hitting a lot of blocks (For instance, I cannot find a way to open Shared Socket ! So if any other app listen on 1900 port, I lose my SSDP discovery... )
But I think recompilation of Mono is definitely a way to go ! I think i’ll try it this week-end, if I have some time, but It’s sure I will not be able install on my surface As for now it seems to be impossible to enter Testing Mode on it.
Jurion
jurion said:
So I cannot understand why Microsoft didn’t include .Net on this platform !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think people seem to be missing something here (well, not just here, on other threads/forums.blogs too). MS have essentially (it’s really quite impressive) ported over the entire Windows OS to run on ARM – and this includes all of .NET v4 with supporting libraries/DLLs.
You only have to pop to C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319 on your Surface RT to see – all the same libraries for the same version of .NET a x86 desktop seem to be there - including Linq, SQL, reflection etc.
Now, this could be really great news! I’d bet that it would be entirely possible for standard .NET applications (by standard, I mean programs that only use managed code and nothing legacy) to be reasonably easily recompiled to run on ARM - ideally as easyily as changing a drop-down!
Furthermore, this is all supported in Visual Studio, it’s just locked down a bit - I’ve been able to compile, with VS2012 (and a minor tweak to remove the ARM compile block) a simple command line EXE for ARM (using .NET calls – though only in C++ which is a shame). The problem is, as soon I open it on Surface, I get an error saying the ‘digital certificate’ couldn't be validated – a common issue which has a simple fix documented online. The catch... that the instructions to remove this block don’t work with secure boot enabled, and - at present - we can’t disable this on the Surface (on normal PCs this can be turned off in the bios).
So – the key to all this, is for MS to open it up (not impossible, but who knows if or when) or for someone to get round this secure boot/certificate requirement. I’m sure there’s some smart people on here with abilities to work on, and hopefully succeed in doing this. Even if people aren't able to work a way round this block, I'm hopefully that eventually MS may release some firmware update tools that someone can hack to switch off UEFI secure boot. Or perhaps someone at MS or a partner may leak some file/app/boot that unlocks this for dev/enterprise purposes.
I look forward to it happening!
T
Skitals said:
In theory, the same code could compile for both x86/64 and ARM (RT), but VS2012 will not allow you to compile an ARM desktop app. There is no legit way to write/compile a desktop app on RT. Its an arbitrary BS limitation put in place by MS. You cannot side load apps, everything must come through the MS store, RT enterprise being an exception... which doesn't help us. And the MS store will only offer Metro apps. MS office shows that's desktop apps are fully possible, albeit recoded/recompiled for ARM, but MS will not allow it. In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything doesn't have to come through the MS store, you can install applications that you build in Visual Studio 2012 for Windows Store, create an appx package and choose not to publish it in Windows Store. VS2012 then creates an appx package as well as a PowerShell script that you can run on Surface, accept security warning, get the developer's license on the device (it's free) and that's it!
It is fairly obvious why MS does not allow installation of "Desktop" apps on ARM tablets. Otherwise dev's would get lazy and just recompile desktop apps for ARM. The experience on a touch tablet would not be great on (unmodified) Desktop apps, hence Microsoft set this constraint on Windows RT in order to push dev's towards making a proper touch friendly app. The result is of course the lack of apps initially, but in the long run the benefits will be a greater experience as the apps would be optimized for touch.
Sure there are obvious downsides to this strategy, but the decision itself makes a lot of sense from a useability standpoint. You already read the complaints in reviews about "Office" not being Metro-style and unfriendly to touch. However this is naturally a decision due to time constraints, because MS would have also preferred to not include a desktop on RT. Office is the selling point now, to gravitate people towards RT and when there is enough demand, the touch friendly (Metro) apps will flow in eventually
Backflipping said:
I think people seem to be missing something here (well, not just here, on other threads/forums.blogs too). MS have essentially (it’s really quite impressive) ported over the entire Windows OS to run on ARM – and this includes all of .NET v4 with supporting libraries/DLLs.
You only have to pop to C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319 on your Surface RT to see – all the same libraries for the same version of .NET a x86 desktop seem to be there - including Linq, SQL, reflection etc.
Now, this could be really great news! I’d bet that it would be entirely possible for standard .NET applications (by standard, I mean programs that only use managed code and nothing legacy) to be reasonably easily recompiled to run on ARM - ideally as easyily as changing a drop-down!
Furthermore, this is all supported in Visual Studio, it’s just locked down a bit - I’ve been able to compile, with VS2012 (and a minor tweak to remove the ARM compile block) a simple command line EXE for ARM (using .NET calls – though only in C++ which is a shame). The problem is, as soon I open it on Surface, I get an error saying the ‘digital certificate’ couldn't be validated – a common issue which has a simple fix documented online. The catch... that the instructions to remove this block don’t work with secure boot enabled, and - at present - we can’t disable this on the Surface (on normal PCs this can be turned off in the bios).
So – the key to all this, is for MS to open it up (not impossible, but who knows if or when) or for someone to get round this secure boot/certificate requirement. I’m sure there’s some smart people on here with abilities to work on, and hopefully succeed in doing this. Even if people aren't able to work a way round this block, I'm hopefully that eventually MS may release some firmware update tools that someone can hack to switch off UEFI secure boot. Or perhaps someone at MS or a partner may leak some file/app/boot that unlocks this for dev/enterprise purposes.
I look forward to it happening!
T
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Hmmm, sorry my bad, didn't look enougth to find .Net assemblies.
As for open it for MS, may be, maaaay be it's the same scheme which they followed with Windows Phone 7.
No native developpment for 7.0 -- 7.8
But they open it for 8.0
May be they just want to force people developp Metro app to populate the store first.
So where's the best place to get one?
I'm looking into buying one very very soon, I found some on ebay for $585 with the cover, That sounds like a win to me. I wish QVC had it, That'd be lovely.
I'm praying we get a work around for all this, But still If the device isn't made for it, I can't be mad that it doesn't do it, That's like being angry that my car doesn't fly.
But it's such a tease, it worries me that I'll have an entire desktop, Sitting, Obselete, With nothing but Office, which I wont even use.
Can't_Live_Without_My_Evo said:
I'm looking into buying one very very soon, I found some on ebay for $585 with the cover, That sounds like a win to me. I wish QVC had it, That'd be lovely.
I'm praying we get a work around for all this, But still If the device isn't made for it, I can't be mad that it doesn't do it, That's like being angry that my car doesn't fly.
But it's such a tease, it worries me that I'll have an entire desktop, Sitting, Obselete, With nothing but Office, which I wont even use.
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It is made for it. It has the full desktop, and the full desktop Office suite. Its a big tease. The whole "do more" campaign advertises you can "click in" and have full laptop productivity with touchpad and mouse/keyboard. Except the only software to take advantage of it is desktop IE and Office.
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