alright first off before i ask my question i think all of you should know. i am an extreme newb to cell phone hacking and moding so please excuse my arrogance 2nd thing i do most off my posts off my cell phone so please excuse the bad grammer and spelling. anyways as i have been reading in the forum people list the mods to their phones and i notice one listed radio? so could someone educate me on what a radio is i figure that it is what keeps you conected to the service provider but other than that i am clueless so when you mode it do you physically open the device and replace something and 2 what is the point of changing the radio do. so could an expert educate me and feel free to tell me everything you know rather than just answering my 2 main questions.
I guess thats its the radio you use to listen to music, news etc... Most phones nowadays come equipped with built-in radio function. I hope that helps. =)
im not too sure about the exact thing you are talking about
however thats what a buddy of mine working in a cell repair shop told
for the radio(the one that broadcast phone signal not the radio you listen to)
you know that in order to use a 3g phone in the US or elsewhere
[but the problem is mainly US cuz here we use special 3G band compared to the rest of the world] you need to get the good frequency
however most of the time manufacturers only design and produce different radio chip for different region if they really have to
cuz you know running those factories is not given to anyone
and why redesign a phone when you already have one
a phone is like a computer.. "change a part, gotta change the whole part" concept..
however a phone might not work in certain 3G frequencies not because the radio cant but because the manufacturer didnt pass the regulations in those regions and it happen that the phone can be 3G but its locked in the ROM
so you need to mod the ROM to make 3G radio work
like the omnia
some ppl argues that it might be dual-UMTS but the US 3G is locked in the ROM
because samsung didnt pass the FCC(Federal C??? C?? the agency that rules communication) at that time(when the first omnia shipped)
so they couldnt put US 3G
same thing for the touch diamond but it was GSM that needed to be rom-unlocked
d3thstalker said:
I guess thats its the radio you use to listen to music, news etc... Most phones nowadays come equipped with built-in radio function. I hope that helps. =)
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Click to collapse
Not the right kind of radio bud
vanilla_star_8 said:
im not too sure about the exact thing you are talking about
however thats what a buddy of mine working in a cell repair shop told
for the radio(the one that broadcast phone signal not the radio you listen to)
you know that in order to use a 3g phone in the US or elsewhere
[but the problem is mainly US cuz here we use special 3G band compared to the rest of the world] you need to get the good frequency
however most of the time manufacturers only design and produce different radio chip for different region if they really have to
cuz you know running those factories is not given to anyone
and why redesign a phone when you already have one
a phone is like a computer.. "change a part, gotta change the whole part" concept..
however a phone might not work in certain 3G frequencies not because the radio cant but because the manufacturer didnt pass the regulations in those regions and it happen that the phone can be 3G but its locked in the ROM
so you need to mod the ROM to make 3G radio work
like the omnia
some ppl argues that it might be dual-UMTS but the US 3G is locked in the ROM
because samsung didnt pass the FCC(Federal C??? C?? the agency that rules communication) at that time(when the first omnia shipped)
so they couldnt put US 3G
same thing for the touch diamond but it was GSM that needed to be rom-unlocked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what i understand about radios (the cell phone kind )
Your radio is what communicates with the tower and can affect how many "bars" you get. Not having the correct radio will also cause your phone
Camera not to work, to have a black screen, and/or to have no sound or intermittent sound.
The radio chip stores information, but you can change the information on that chip by "flashing a new radio."
This is just my own understanding so if i made a mistake don't be afraid to correct me
I believe the radio part of these devices is the information that tells the hardware in the phone how to act. What frequencies to use on the cell band, how the wifi antenna acts, how the bluetooth antenna acts, etc... Even how the GPS antenna works. Hence while in CDMA land my Titan needed a GPS enabled radio to make the gps work. There was a chip and antenna in there, but the radio excluded directions for the processor to interact with it.
My mind is simple, and this may be wrong but it is how I understand how the radio portion affects the phone.
Also, feel free to correct us if we are wrong!
Wow... Where.... wow.
Radio function
Radio is the whole function of the cell phone part of your tiny portable PCs your carrying around.
Its a
Duplex (transmits and receives separate carrier waves at the same time) ,Two-way, VHF and UHF, FM tranceiver in its purest form.
The cell towers are nothing more than ham radio pioneered "repeater" stations, connected to land phone lines. 20 years before the 1st commercial cell phone, HAM radio operators were setting up their own area "club" repeater stations, and networking them much like cell phone operators do now. The biggest rush of my young electronic life was carrying a kenwood TR-2500 FM handheld with me on my Yamaha YZ-80 out to the remote areas of our trails, and making a phone-patch call from the handheld thru the repeater and to a household phone. It felt like star trek man. I felt so high tech and up to date as a 15 year old carrying a radio my license didnt allow yet. LOL The funny part was everyone who was on frequency would get to hear your conversation too. Modern cell phones are the same thing only with collars and leashes.
So , back to the PDA with a two meter radio crammed tight agaist a computer with buttons that are too small ...
Thats really what you have.
Everything that a PDA is , outside of Radio [ a patch(voice) connect or a modem(data) connect] is just a small computer.
By the way, I raised the room temp tonite by leaving a Touch Pro turned on and Idling its data connection ...
Circuit... great explanation! But how do I know what Radio version my X1i needs?
In Smartphones and Pocket PCs, 'Radio' refers to the RIL. Radio Interface Layer. An API (Application Program Interface) that sits between Windows Mobile and the hardware driving the phone. An API is a published series of functions/methods that an application or operating system can call.
Ther is a patent for it at http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6826762.html.
It is so that the transmitter/receiver sits at arms length from WM or its apps, i.e. you can't go POKE the phone's registers directly, you have to ask pretty please through the API.
The Radio part of the ROM is the version that this API is at, for your device.
Related
I am trying to find out if there is a limit on how many phones can establish a data connection to the same cell tower at the same time.
Here is why: 4 users in the same room on Cingular's network. Two can connect to Edge network and get service and two can't. Sometimes all have Edge and sometimes only one. It seems random. The office complex where this happens is full of other people also having cell phones, not all the same provider but probably many also use Cingular... we don't necessarily have that much choice ;-)... The office also happens to be near a very busy shopping mall.
I've been doing some reading about the channels (on HowStuffWorks) and it talks about a certain amount of channels being available. So I figure the reason why sometimes some of us lose connectivity is due to the tower being overloaded - too many people accessing the tower at the same time.
Does anyone have some data on how this all works, or where I can go to find out about it? Does someone work with this stuff, like putting up towers for one of these cell phone companies, who has experience with this? I think it would be of interest to others, too.
Sadly Cingular isn't much help... "Maybe you sweat too much and got your phone wet and that's why..." can you believe he actually suggested that? We even had Cingular replace one phone which was particularly prone to this phenomena, only to find that it didn't change.
Food for thought....
I saw a friend who just got the HTC Tilt and had a TomTom navigation program installed on it that worked without pairing it with a bluetooth gps receiver.
I know that the xv6700 has the built in gps (for 911) and was wondering if anyone has gotten a navigation program to work with this phone without purchasing an additional BT GPS Receiver.
NOPE!
If you do a search you will find this question has been asked lots of times!
Sorry, I too hoped it would work!
Works Fine
I use the Tilt with TomTom everyday. It works fine using the built in GPS.
I'd love to see a hack to be able to use TomTom on my xv6700....anyone come up or leading up to one ?
I have a XV6700 with TomTom but in order to get it to work I had to go and get a Bluetooth GPS antenna. The built in GPS chip does not work with TomTom only E911. Using it with the bluetooth it works REALLY great.
HTH
Once and for all, the 6700 has E911 GPS only, it cannot be used wtih turn by turn gps applications. If you really want/need some form of inaccurate navigation and don't want to buy a bluetooth gps unit, your options are Microsoft Live Search, Google Maps, or Navizon.
This thread should be closed.
Apache GPS
I've recently upgraded the Titan to the new radio version that allows for built in functionality. Does anyone know if the new Apache radio will work, or if a newer one is coming out?
as many times as this has been posted and with the post above yours you still ask this question. the apache has no real fuctioning gps chipset. it functions for 911 location only. end of story
i would like to beg to differ, the 6800 does not have a dedicated GPS chip but the same GPSone chip the 6700 has... it may be a newer version of the chip but it does the same thing the 6700 does. if someone who isnt closed minded cares to take their time to try to extract the information from the 6800's radio firmwares and impliment it on the 6700 it should work.. the only thing that could stop us from using that chip is if it is hardware locked. all you have to do is redesign the radio firmware and put it into an existing kitchen rom... I will try to figure it out but ive never worked with building custom roms before and it will likely take a long time to get anywhere... i am sure someone who is any good at kitchen roms would be willing to take a crack at it
yeah but you miss the big picture. a chip isnt worth a hill of silicone if you dont have an antenna to hook to it
madmattco said:
yeah but you miss the big picture. a chip isnt worth a hill of silicone if you dont have an antenna to hook to it
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So, if the problem is *also* that there is no antenna attached, will it be possible to solder a connection from the chip to use the phone antenna??
willfck4beer said:
So, if the problem is *also* that there is no antenna attached, will it be possible to solder a connection from the chip to use the phone antenna??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if there is no antenna attached, then how is the e911 getting its gps signal fix?
Jeff
most do it by triangulating between 3 or so cell towers
the program GPS Today has a feature that can used cell phone tower based positioning instead of a GPS receiver. i've never tested it because i have a 6800 with fantastic GPS, but its worth a try. Its free and pretty damn cool, so that would be crazy if the solution was that easy. try it out.
http://m.geoterrestrial.com/
There was a long thread about this over on pdaphonehome a while back. In short:
YES, the PPC-6700 DOES have stand alone GPS functionality. There was an email from HTC posted where they confirmed this. The reason it does not work stand alone is because Sprint requested it be disabled (I guess they wanted to charge for their own navigation package). But there is built in GPS that can use cell tower triangulation and regular GPS. Some people actually had the Verizon version working in a roundabout way for a while.
I went so far as to install Sprint's Nav software after I got on a plan that included navigation (for my wife's Instinct). It ran fine, but could never get a signal.
Sorry to bump an old thread-
Since the GPS hack is out for the XV6800, can it, or something similar be applied to the PPC6700?
iornslave said:
i would like to beg to differ, the 6800 does not have a dedicated GPS chip but the same GPSone chip the 6700 has... it may be a newer version of the chip but it does the same thing the 6700 does. if someone who isnt closed minded cares to take their time to try to extract the information from the 6800's radio firmwares and impliment it on the 6700 it should work.. the only thing that could stop us from using that chip is if it is hardware locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, I'm not sure where this info came from or what planet this phone came from, but it is completely inaccurate. Here's the story and please, DO NOT post anymore "Can I" questions on this as it is not a viable issue.
The 6800 (known by HTC as the Titan) has the Qualcomm MSM7500 "cell phone on a chip" chipset. This includes their GPSOne gps solution. It is an integrated GPS receiver for the phone. It is unique to the Qualcomm systems as it is their technology. In essence, it is a standalone gps receiver as it requires drivers to run and can be used independently of other functions.
Now, the 6700 (known by HTC as the Apache) has the Intel Boulevard chip. It is not a "cell phone on a chip" solution as the MSM7500 is. The 6700 would have had the Qualcomm solution (maybe not the 7500, but equivalent for the time), but legal matters complicated things and HTC signed with Intel instead. The Apache HAS gps built in as does EVERY cell phone made after a certain date set by the government requiring ALL cell phone manufacturers to include a GPS solution for E911 location requirements. These solutions only need a 2D fix and are not processed in the same manner as an NMEA enabled GPS receiver. As it would be possible to intercept these signals and process them through an intermediate driver, it would be practically worthless as the fix is only approximate (30 meters+-), half or all the data is tower triangulated (aGPS) and the value of the fix is geek value only.
So, if you want to mess with it, go ahead. Just remember, a seperate GPS receiver is a lot less hassle and a lot cheaper.
I work in a midtown Manhattan hi-rise near Rockefeller Center and get full signal bars on any phone in and around the office.
The problem is I get terrible performance. Voice calls are garbled and drop, and sometimes callers go straight to voice mail. E-mail, data and web work sporadically and load slowly if at all. The phone will actually get hot just sitting on the desk as if its CPU or transmitter is locked at 100%, and the battery drains quickly.
It's the same whether it's an iPhone, Android or Symbian smart phone or just simple dumb phone, and other people in my office have the same issues. I even notice the same kinds of things happening out on the street up to maybe a block away, but it seems to be at its worst when I'm in the building. But two blocks away, walking through Times Square or other busy places, everything is OK.
Any idea what could be going on and if there's any way to get around it? This is on AT&T.
Change baseband?
I think it's the fault of AT & T
AT&T is a terrible company
+1 on the AT&T being crap
I tried changing baseband but it didn't help, plus like I said it happens on all different kinds of phones. I've also tried manually switching from 850MHz over to 1900MHz band but that didn't help.
Updating my kernel might have actually helped a bit. It's hard to tell though, because the problem comes and goes.
I'm wondering if the signals are too strong and overloading the phone. Or maybe I'm exactly halfway between two strong towers in this building and they're interfering with each other, is that plausible? This is in the heart of NYC after all, AT&T must have a lot of towers in a very concentrated area around here.
Samsung Captivate i897
Serendipity 6.4
Baseband I9000UGKC1
Speedmod Kernel i897-13E-500MHz
I had a similar problem in my area once, it was rectified by the Network Provider.
Its due the GSM inter cell inheritence. Are you located very near to a Mobile Antenna tower.
It would be worth checking your own office building terrace for same
watt9493 said:
+1 on the AT&T being crap
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Click to collapse
i've had nothing but trouble with them in the past
Teampokerface
Heres how you fix the issue. I had a friend with the same issue. 1. open the window of your skyrise 2. take phone are throw it out the window 3. take elevator down to lower level. 4. Find nearest Verizon or Tmobile or sprint store and port your number. 5. take new phone from new network to your skyrise. 6. Congrats your problem has been solved. ANYONE WHO HAS AT&T NEEDS TO GIVE THEM THE FINGER AND MOVE TO ANOTHER CARRIER.
Thanks but if I wanted to hear people say AT&T sucks I would have posted this to Yahoo or something. I get a much better rate with AT&T through my company's FAN account, and I'd rather not pay double to another carrier if this is a technical issue that can be addressed.
For now I can use wifi around the office and put up with the spotty voice coverage, but I was hoping I might find some helpful technical advice here since this is supposed to be a developers forum with presumably mature users.
rathore4u - I'll see if I can find someone at my provider's tech support who understands the GSM inter cell inheritence issue you suggested. Thanks.
Here's a puzzler.
I recently started using my automotive GPS again (Garmin Nuvi 1450; same as the 1490) but I've noticed it's acting haywire whenever my Inspire is even close to it. For example, the accuracy becomes off by miles and it thinks the elevation is roughly 3000 feet when the elevation of the area I live is 150 feet above sea level.
Suspecting something, I powered off my Inspire and the Garmin immediately went back to being dead accurate so it has to be something with the Inspire.
I run my phone with WiFi and GPS disabled, I live in a HSUPA enabled area and my phone is set to use all available bands; it's generally in HSUPA mode. The rom I'm using is based off the Cyanogen nightlies, LorDmod kernel, 12.54.60.25U_26.09.04.11_M2 radio.
If anyone's experienced something similar or has any potential fixes that would be great. Putting my phone on airplane mode every time I get in my car isn't a very viable solution.
helushune said:
Here's a puzzler.
I recently started using my automotive GPS again (Garmin Nuvi 1450; same as the 1490) but I've noticed it's acting haywire whenever my Inspire is even close to it. For example, the accuracy becomes off by miles and it thinks the elevation is roughly 3000 feet when the elevation of the area I live is 150 feet above sea level.
Suspecting something, I powered off my Inspire and the Garmin immediately went back to being dead accurate so it has to be something with the Inspire.
I run my phone with WiFi and GPS disabled, I live in a HSUPA enabled area and my phone is set to use all available bands; it's generally in HSUPA mode. The rom I'm using is based off the Cyanogen nightlies, LorDmod kernel, 12.54.60.25U_26.09.04.11_M2 radio.
If anyone's experienced something similar or has any potential fixes that would be great. Putting my phone on airplane mode every time I get in my car isn't a very viable solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried Garmin Customer Support? It sounds like the problem is possibly with the Garmin, and not the Inspire. A stand alone GPS unit should be able to withstand interference form a cell phone, IMO...
meiguoguizi said:
Have you tried Garmin Customer Support? It sounds like the problem is possibly with the Garmin, and not the Inspire. A stand alone GPS unit should be able to withstand interference form a cell phone, IMO...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't happen when my brother's Thunderbolt or my old iPhone 4 is around it so I'm kind of confused. I haven't called up Garmin yet, just noticed it going haywire today, but I'll give that a shot.
helushune said:
It doesn't happen when my brother's Thunderbolt or my old iPhone 4 is around it so I'm kind of confused. I haven't called up Garmin yet, just noticed it going haywire today, but I'll give that a shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah weird problem if only confined to the Inspire device. I have noticed for YEARS on AT&T with multiple handsets (including the iPhone) that something with the native signal interferes with the landline phones and some computers with stand alone speakers in the form of static and beeps that make it sound like I am trying to contact the Mother Ship...only at my employers cubes though...
helushune said:
It doesn't happen when my brother's Thunderbolt or my old iPhone 4 is around it so I'm kind of confused. I haven't called up Garmin yet, just noticed it going haywire today, but I'll give that a shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GPS frequencies are at approximately 1227 and 1575 MHz. The Inspire cell phone radio transmits in the 850, 900, 1800 or 1900 MHz bands depending on whether it's using EDGE, 3G, etc. So in theory it shouldn't interfere, unless some weird harmonic frequency situation is going on. You didn't say if you're using bluetooth, but these frequencies are in the 2400+ range (close to the WiFi range), so once again there should be no interference. It may be worth turning it off just to see (if you haven't tried this already).
Since the other 2 phones you mentioned don't cause the same problem, this does potentially point to your Inspire as the source. Maybe for some unknown reason your Inspire is poorly shielded (possibly due to some sort of defect during assembly) and is therefore spitting out more interference than it should. Or your radio is not running within spec due to some sort of hardware or software issue, and is spitting out spurious interference.
Personally I would try flashing the stock radio version 26.06.06.30. This is the stock radio that is FCC approved to run on the Inspire, and therefore has passed the FCC testing and certification for spurious signals, interference, etc. Get the version that comes with the RCData file, in the radio thread in the dev section.
One more thing to check: make sure the cell antenna (built into the inside cover of the SIM/SD cover at the bottom of the phone) is making good contact with the phone when the cover is on the phone. Look for the little gold contacts, and make sure they are clean and sticking up slightly with a "springy" tension to them, so as to make good contact. The reason I say to check this, is because if your antenna isn't connected 100% properly, the cell radio may increase its transmission power to compensate, which might also increase the interference it creates. This is pure conjecture.
What about Bluetooth?
Took too long. Just listen to Henry. He's a friggin genius. I think. He always seem to help me.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using the power of the dark side.
meiguoguizi said:
Yeah weird problem if only confined to the Inspire device. I have noticed for YEARS on AT&T with multiple handsets (including the iPhone) that something with the native signal interferes with the landline phones and some computers with stand alone speakers in the form of static and beeps that make it sound like I am trying to contact the Mother Ship...only at my employers cubes though...
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Click to collapse
Yar, that's the GSM signal interfering with electronics (usually cheap speakers) that aren't properly magnetically shielded against the GSM frequencies AT&T uses.
EDIT:
@biglittlegato - Good question, I always leave bluetooth disabled as well; I never use it. So much so I forgot this phone supported it. Heh.
@henrybravo - Cheers. I'll reflash back to 26.06.06.30 with the RID and see what happens.
EDIT2:
Also fired off an email to Garmin as well. Their response time window is 3 days so we'll see what they say as well.
The odd thing is that it was working fine when I drove to work this morning. Maybe it has something to do with the network load. Bleh, I'm just throwing stuff out there at this point.
helushune said:
Yar, that's the GSM signal interfering with electronics (usually cheap speakers) that aren't properly magnetically shielded against the GSM frequencies AT&T uses.
That all makes sense . Rather annoying when on the land line phone with someone at work though, or worse, we have an overhead paging system, and the beeps and static kick in when I'm on the overhead...just blame my employer's choice of inexpensive hardware and not fault my phones or cell service though .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
meiguoguizi said:
Yeah weird problem if only confined to the Inspire device. I have noticed for YEARS on AT&T with multiple handsets (including the iPhone) that something with the native signal interferes with the landline phones and some computers with stand alone speakers in the form of static and beeps that make it sound like I am trying to contact the Mother Ship...only at my employers cubes though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha I know EXACTLY what static/beeping sound you're talking about. My old Motorola prehistoric flip phone and maybe even my razr used to produce that sound whenever I was sitting at my computer, just before the incoming call would ring my phone. Annoying as hell.
Hasn't done it on my newer phones...Captivate and inspire.
Scott_S said:
Haha I know EXACTLY what static/beeping sound you're talking about. My old Motorola prehistoric flip phone and maybe even my razr used to produce that sound whenever I was sitting at my computer, just before the incoming call would ring my phone. Annoying as hell.
Hasn't done it on my newer phones...Captivate and inspire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes the good ol' RAZR... when I had this old alarm clock that is never really off...would start the Home World transmissions 5 seconds before the phone would ring with an incoming call...I be drunk n think it was magic...well not really but sort of....
Sent from my Inspire 4G™ using XDA Premium App
Cheers for your guys' help in this matter. There were a few updates for the nuvi that Garmin sent me and I flashed the 26.06.06.30 radio and the issue seems to have dissipated. Still not sure what exactly fixed it or if it was just a GPS reading fluke but all is well now.
I was thinking about this for android since it's an open system but it probably applies to any phone once you XDA guys get them.
The idea is that since there is a Cell Phone radio in the phone, and there is a possibility to gain access to that radio is it possible to create a DOS attack in an area using just a normal cellphone? Imagine having an app to effectively block communications for what would probably be a very small area to keep it going long enough.
Does phone hardware even have the capabilities to do this?
Hypothetically, it should be possible, though I'm unsure of the level of access to the radios themselves in any phones...If you can get the radio to output noise on all frequencies constantly, with enough output, you should be able to jam a small area. However, the biggest issue (after gaining access to the radio chipset at the lowest level) would be pumping out enough power across the different channels to degrade others' reception.
You could probably get away with pumping out noise in intervals (extending battery life from your handset) and still degrade a signal enough to disrupt communications.
However, encrypted signals may be able to overcome brute-force jamming to a certain extent...I'm not sure if cellphones use spread-spectrum or frequency hopping, but if they do, there's another issue to overcome.
Keep in mind, if anyone clues in to the jamming, law enforcement radio direction-finding equipment will pinpoint the jamming headset pretty quickly, since you need to output a more powerful signal for your jamming to be effective.
cell phone jammers are also highly illegal.
It was a thought that came to my mind and I understand they're very illegal but I was wondering. Mostly for the capabilities of our phones, mostly the android ones.
I think it's a pretty interesting topic. Not sure I've ever heard anyone think of this one before on the forums (I don't post a lot but I read a lot)
only government officials can use cell jammers in case of bomb threats and stuff like that
You can buy jammers online if you know where to look for peanuts. Outside the USA some places have been using them as casually as in theaters. I also heard similar reports in hopitals but that surely has to be rumour mill since the whole point of no phones there is to reduce electromagetic interference messing with equipment like in planes so why would you spam with even more? (I think jammers DDOS the airwaves rather than anything much intelligent?).
The modem section of android has AFAIK always been closed source. This put a spanner in the works for things like the Replicant project which was trying to build a truely transparent phone open source so that you always know what is going on and have some privacy. The furthest they got was pretty much everything apart from the modem open source and that modem was able to spy on everything else.
Basically the network owners want a tight rein on what's connecting to their networks and the spectrum licensees want control of the spectrum. This is something both have at the moment legally...
but what with software defined radio like GNU Radio is pretty impossible to enforce and the only thing delaying this change is the economics of software defined radio and it's size. I expect this will change over time and that could be another very disruptive and interesting technology. As such I expect it'll try to be repressed making the problem worse.
That said, there are plenty of modems now for Arduino like projects and I'd expect just one of these to be open source?
Hope this helps clear it up for you
-j
This isn't the type of discussion that XDA encourages, especially not a discussion that's over a year old. Thread closed.