Starting to put some pressure on T-mobile... - G1 Android Development

The real "bad guy" in the whole root thing on the phones is T-mobile. They don't want to let us have root, so google obliges.
I think we need to start applying pressure to help T-mobile realize that allowing a 'developer build' to be released to those who request it would actually help them out.
There are several angles that this makes sense - but the one I am taking now is to try to help people realize that features are missing because they don't let us develop them for them - so that even regular users will get on board for wanting them to have a developers build available.
I started a thread on their official forums asking for this kind of access. It wont get anywhere, but maybe we can start getting the normal users behind the idea.
Here's the thread over at the T-mobile forums
I don't know about the rest of you - but I would like to spend my time doing useful things on the phone rather than playing cat-and-mouse games with them.
What point is having an open source OS if you can't reflash your own builds of it?

Related

[Q] Paying Developers to customize your phone !

Am a Non-conformist, I don't try to follow the herd's travels in getting the Best looking customizing on my phone. I became really frustrated with my G2 over the past few days and I'll tell you why .
The G2 is the only phone that I have to go through different hoops in order to hack it to be able to install a custom ROM on it ! After all, the whole idea is to be able to customize it to begin with with some fancy screens and new apps. Every time a new ROM comes out, were all racing to get it installed and working on our devices and were left with a huge mess. Can you honestly remember what ROM you installed last week and have you forgotten what procedures to take before installing your New fancy Rom over it ?
Every time I come here and look at the ROMS being worked on, it seems that you have to follow that developers procedures in order to get it working and guess what, if you BRICK it, it's your own damn fault ! Ain't no one here to blame you for trying out that new fancy Rom, right !
What got me worked up was this, I received a picture from someone via mms and after previewing it on my G2, it closed the thread and took me to my list of sms threads and I still can't figure out how to save the damn picture to my phone !
Maybe, I just overlooked something and maybe I installed an app from the market that changed some small aspect regarding sms and mss messaging, I don't know and frankly, I dislike coming to any forum and having my intelligence questioned by some smart ass nerd who knows more then I do, only because he has the information to fix my problem but is not willing to share the solution until he makes himself Glorified.
Developers are indeed SMART and very SKILLED at what they do but it just seems to me that all it takes is just 1 individual to bring down the Fame and Glory because this 1 individual fails to follow instructions.
How about let's change all this to an idea I have.
An individual comes here with a NEW factory carrier phone, he wants to have it customized his way, He's willing to pay a certain developer to cook a BASE ROM, let's say $25.00 dollars and he likes it, Now he wants certain apps that make it work, let's say he's willing to pay $ 5.00 to 10.00 at the very least, depending on the apps usage. NOW, this NEW owner has his own phone customized to his liking, He's happy as a clam, right ? Maybe and maybe not.
Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas like this? Is it worth trying here ?
If developers had the time to handle your phone the amount of money you are suggesting would probably not buy that time. Also I think it is customary here to take donations and not payment for services. Sorry about your bad experience. Not all of the smart people here are so unrefined as the ones you encountered. Try to keep a cool head. Everything that happens to your phone after the instant it is rooted is ultimately YOUR PROBLEM, like it or not, and that goes for everybody, including smarty pants geeks! If your not a paid member you might want to consider becoming one. If you're new around here it probably couldn't help to have something going for you. If you think you got off on the wrong foot with somebody, PM them a well thought out apology, you might make a friend and get the help you need. Just a thought.

[request] mod/fix/patch - database/links/spreadsheets

Ive fiddled with these roms on and off for months now, always wanting to actually create my own. The problem i run into every time i actually get myself to the point where im going to jump into the river its almost impossible (for me at least) to get any information on most of the random smaller fixs/mods.
For the most part if i dig around enough in the i9000 forums i can find what i need. Problem there being not all of them work on captivate and some require additional work. (For instance, flashing i9000 themes on a i9000 captivate rom can break a decent amount of functionality or perks.
Every now and then the bigger fixes will show up with there own posts in the dev section and you can actually find them with a search and some reading. However (again, for me at least) most are practically non existent and hardly even mentioned accept in change logs of other roms.
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I can totally understand people not openly talking about a specific fix they have found/implemented out in the open. People will eventually use it and give you no credit. To fight that, im assuming, a lot of people form teams, these teams exchange information with each other fairly freely. The problem i see with that is that you can easy replace the term team here with the term inner circle (this is not a bash so please for the love of god do not take it that way). Im also more then aware that even though teams exist, most members of said teams are really nice people and will openly give someone information on how to fix things if asked, be it by pm or any of the numerous irc channels that are around.
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What i think would make a lot of sense and help speed up rom fix's/patch's is a database of working fixs/patch's. As in, information on where they need to go and how to implement them without breaking something else. Obviously with credit to the finders of the information. Maybe even a locked sticky so it doesnt get hounded with questions from people that really have no idea what there even asking. Or even on one of the various websites from users, or even a section in the wiki.
I just think that in the long haul this would lead to a lot less people figuring out fix's that already existed and a lot more finding newer and better ways of doing things. And a lot more options on the table.
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If this exists already, and i have just been oblivious to it for months, please ignore my rantish post.... Right after you toss me a link

Just a Passing Thought on Devs

Just one of my thoughts on developers...
Developers of apps and such have brought us some really useful creations that allow us to personalize our Android devices in almost anyway we desire. They spend countless hours, months, or even years developing these things which they give to us for our use.
While we use these creations, we find a bug or think of a new implementation for it. Now a developer will get new feature requests and choose to not make those changes because they have no time, not enough demand, or there's just no plan for it. On the other hand, we find a bug in it. We bring it to their attention and there's a chance that it will be fixed, maybe soon or in a later update. Maybe it doesn't get fixed but it still runs fairly well.
But what the unresponsive developers who basically make their apps for a quick buck and then the project is dead? Or the ones who don't listen to the supporters of their app at all? I know there's no obligation to listen to thoughts of the consumer but shouldn't the developer at least pay attention and be somewhat responsive?
Any thoughts/comments/disagreements/criticisms/hate on this are welcome.
Jamin13 said:
Just one of my thoughts on developers...
Developers of apps and such have brought us some really useful creations that allow us to personalize our Android devices in almost anyway we desire. They spend countless hours, months, or even years developing these things which they give to us for our use.
While we use these creations, we find a bug or think of a new implementation for it. Now a developer will get new feature requests and choose to not make those changes because they have no time, not enough demand, or there's just no plan for it. On the other hand, we find a bug in it. We bring it to their attention and there's a chance that it will be fixed, maybe soon or in a later update. Maybe it doesn't get fixed but it still runs fairly well.
But what the unresponsive developers who basically make their apps for a quick buck and then the project is dead? Or the ones who don't listen to the supporters of their app at all? I know there's no obligation to listen to thoughts of the consumer but shouldn't the developer at least pay attention and be somewhat responsive?
Any thoughts/comments/disagreements/criticisms/hate on this are welcome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess we are lucky in that the majority of Developers in the community are not demanding of donations or the 'quick buck'. Most do it to tinker in their spare time, to prove that it can be done, and to feed their passion. They are then gracious enough to share their works with us, everyday Joes, for nil thought of monetary gain (again, mostly).
It disheartens me greatly that the overwhelming majority of users now make the most ridiculous demands of Developers, expect a full-blown 'retail (bug-less)' experience, then have the gall to call Developers out if they decide to move away from the project, hit a brick wall or even just go to sleep!
Unfortunately I have even seen the odd Developer involved in this sort of behaviour, and it's certainly not limited to Junior members either, not by a long shot
These guys don't get paid, they're (generally) doing the best they can with what they've got, and they share with us out of their own goodwill. We use and try these things at our own risk. It's printed in big red letters at the top of most ROM threads these days, for good reason
With the onset of the 'smartphone revolution', it's amazing to read through a 50-page thread and watch how many people ask for each and every feature in a 'CWM flashable zip' because they can't, or won't, read through a few pages, or even do a search. I'd wager a fair few wouldn't even know what a Command Prompt or Fastboot was. These kids are flashing whatever looks 'cool' to their devices without so much as a clue to what it does (other than OMG an extra 0.1GHz! - example only), then expecting everyone else to pull them out of the **** when it goes pear-shaped ('I need flashable zip for...'), and having a bit of a go if something doesn't work, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to get past version 0.1.
I have great sympathy for Developers today, as they don't have a hope in Hell of keeping on top of this, nor keeping up with the ridiculous demands.
Even if we make a donation, it does not entitle us to any more support than the regular user who just hits the 'Thanks' button, or even just silently downloads and uses. It's called a donation for a reason. This is a community based on goodwill and sharing, although some days it certainly doesn't look that way.
I've bored you long enough Thankyou for asking the question and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts. Remember, the Developers are the lifeblood of this community, and (thankfully) bad eggs among them are quite rare.
Take care.
juzz86 said:
I guess we are lucky in that the majority of Developers in the community are not demanding of donations or the 'quick buck'. Most do it to tinker in their spare time, to prove that it can be done, and to feed their passion. They are then gracious enough to share their works with us, everyday Joes, for nil thought of monetary gain (again, mostly).
It disheartens me greatly that the overwhelming majority of users now make the most ridiculous demands of Developers, expect a full-blown 'retail (bug-less)' experience, then have the gall to call Developers out if they decide to move away from the project, hit a brick wall or even just go to sleep!
Unfortunately I have even seen the odd Developer involved in this sort of behaviour, and it's certainly not limited to Junior members either, not by a long shot
These guys don't get paid, they're (generally) doing the best they can with what they've got, and they share with us out of their own goodwill. We use and try these things at our own risk. It's printed in big red letters at the top of most ROM threads these days, for good reason
With the onset of the 'smartphone revolution', it's amazing to read through a 50-page thread and watch how many people ask for each and every feature in a 'CWM flashable zip' because they can't, or won't, read through a few pages, or even do a search. I'd wager a fair few wouldn't even know what a Command Prompt or Fastboot was. These kids are flashing whatever looks 'cool' to their devices without so much as a clue to what it does (other than OMG an extra 0.1GHz! - example only), then expecting everyone else to pull them out of the **** when it goes pear-shaped ('I need flashable zip for...'), and having a bit of a go if something doesn't work, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to get past version 0.1.
I have great sympathy for Developers today, as they don't have a hope in Hell of keeping on top of this, nor keeping up with the ridiculous demands.
Even if we make a donation, it does not entitle us to any more support than the regular user who just hits the 'Thanks' button, or even just silently downloads and uses. It's called a donation for a reason. This is a community based on goodwill and sharing, although some days it certainly doesn't look that way.
I've bored you long enough Thankyou for asking the question and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts. Remember, the Developers are the lifeblood of this community, and (thankfully) bad eggs among them are quite rare.
Take care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem, always nice to know others thoughts on an idea.
There are the dedicated devs who do spend vast amounts of time on their work and everyone (most everyone anyway) are quite appreciative of it. I'm more concerned with devs, whether new or old, just maybe responding. Not just toward reasonable (or ludicrous) requests but just a general question. I wouldn't look for them to respond to everyone who does ask something though, they would be there for days.
I'm just trying to port a recovery for my phone and cannot get a response from any of those respected and revered devs that have done all the work on those recoveries. I've done my fair share of Googling and asking around here and still have not been able to make any progress on it. There was one member who has been lending a hand but other than him, I haven't gotten any other responses.
It sounded like the first post was more about app devs and the second was about rom devs...
I was just talking about devs in general, not any specific kind. Could be ROMs, could be Apps, people will still ask for more and more and pester until they get what they want or until the developer gets fed up and: makes the changes, stops responding, or gets run off.

[Q] Using remote access to root a phone and install a rom

I wonder if anyone knows if it is possible to root and install a ROM for someone using remote access of some sort. At least maybe be able to explore the file directory or flash something even on an already rooted phone. I could see why Google may have built in something that would block this from being possible though. The only reason I ask is because there are so many times I try to help a friend on FB or twitter who is having a problem with their phone and I would LOVE to be able to help them! Most of them are somewhat technological idiots and I don't want to lose them to the dark side! We all know every brand and model of phone has it's different quirks and problems and issues Most can be easily solved with a little searching here on XDA. I'd love to be able to help a friend install an OS update or a custom ROM so they can enjoy their phone to it's fullest potential the way it's meant to be enjoyed and they won't get that phone The Borg use( I'm sure most of you will get the Star Trek reference)!
Obviously, the potential would be there for people to make money rooting people's phones remotely. I'm sure there are some people that wouldn't be happy about someone making money off an otherwise mostly free Development community and I understand that completely. I do think it would be a great way for a developer to raise money to continue their efforts and possibly bring in enough to quit their other job to devote themselves full-time or at least add a little to their income. My thoughts on that would be this: For one, at least it would be someone with a hands-on knowledge of the particular phone and various ROMS for that phone. People such as Mike's Recognized Users of his ARHD ROM would be perfect candidates for something like this. It would certainly also cut down on the overly repeated questions we all have to deal with in EVERY forum on this site. When Mike puts out a new rom there are 10+ new pages an hour, mostly repeating the same three questions, and you know what those are. If I haven't checked in a couple of days that could be HUNDREDS of posts! I am actually someone who reads as much as I can before I install anything, even a small update. Would be nice to have one post answering all the questions I would have. Repetitive questions lead to FIVE repetitive answers of "search before you post" followed by "I did" and a two page conversation about searching. Ugh!
Of course, there is also the problem of someone who is not fully adept at doing somethin like this and bricking peoples phones without recourse. For sure, it would be tough to identify a qualified person to do this but it could be possible. Now, unfortunately you would also be opening yourself up to a stranger accessing all your files and information that are on your phone. I'm not a developer by any means but I'm sure there could be an app and program created that would allow you access but block any files containing personal information.
Overall I think there would be some definite postives to something like this, as well as negatives that I'm not thinking about. Would love to hear your opinion.
Oh, and if anyone tries to steal my idea and profit by it I'm reserving all rights to the concept right now!
Someone did it
Halfcab123.com
VNC/RDP and do everything from a command prompt.
tony yayo said:
I wonder if anyone knows if it is possible to root and install a ROM for someone using remote access of some sort. At least maybe be able to explore the file directory or flash something even on an already rooted phone. I could see why Google may have built in something that would block this from being possible though. The only reason I ask is because there are so many times I try to help a friend on FB or twitter who is having a problem with their phone and I would LOVE to be able to help them! Most of them are somewhat technological idiots and I don't want to lose them to the dark side! We all know every brand and model of phone has it's different quirks and problems and issues Most can be easily solved with a little searching here on XDA. I'd love to be able to help a friend install an OS update or a custom ROM so they can enjoy their phone to it's fullest potential the way it's meant to be enjoyed and they won't get that phone The Borg use( I'm sure most of you will get the Star Trek reference)!
Obviously, the potential would be there for people to make money rooting people's phones remotely. I'm sure there are some people that wouldn't be happy about someone making money off an otherwise mostly free Development community and I understand that completely. I do think it would be a great way for a developer to raise money to continue their efforts and possibly bring in enough to quit their other job to devote themselves full-time or at least add a little to their income. My thoughts on that would be this: For one, at least it would be someone with a hands-on knowledge of the particular phone and various ROMS for that phone. People such as Mike's Recognized Users of his ARHD ROM would be perfect candidates for something like this. It would certainly also cut down on the overly repeated questions we all have to deal with in EVERY forum on this site. When Mike puts out a new rom there are 10+ new pages an hour, mostly repeating the same three questions, and you know what those are. If I haven't checked in a couple of days that could be HUNDREDS of posts! I am actually someone who reads as much as I can before I install anything, even a small update. Would be nice to have one post answering all the questions I would have. Repetitive questions lead to FIVE repetitive answers of "search before you post" followed by "I did" and a two page conversation about searching. Ugh!
Of course, there is also the problem of someone who is not fully adept at doing somethin like this and bricking peoples phones without recourse. For sure, it would be tough to identify a qualified person to do this but it could be possible. Now, unfortunately you would also be opening yourself up to a stranger accessing all your files and information that are on your phone. I'm not a developer by any means but I'm sure there could be an app and program created that would allow you access but block any files containing personal information.
Overall I think there would be some definite postives to something like this, as well as negatives that I'm not thinking about. Would love to hear your opinion.
Oh, and if anyone tries to steal my idea and profit by it I'm reserving all rights to the concept right now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol been done already
GNeX
AOKP
FRANCOS LATEST KERNEL
& WHATEVER [MOD AT THE TIME]

The Market Incompatibility Final Solution

The short version:
Let's get Google to change the market incompatibility from "You can't have this," to "Are you sure...?" Because quite honestly why waste precious minutes downloading an APK from some unknown source that for all you know could be tempered with and wind up ****ing up your device.
The teal deer version:
There are now numerous threads regarding this issue and I think it's time we had one that was the central place for us to discuss this issue as it's too scattered about and so far all attempts at remedying the issue have been either in vain or temporary. We shouldn't have to suffer so much over something so unnecessary.
The idea is sound, sure, but its ways of going about doing so are very wrong. In the event that an app doesn't work as expected, or at least in suspicion of such, it need only be noted as a warning to the user. So instead of seeing that black bar stating that we can't have app X and have the install button disabled, we should see that same black bar but with a warning and the install button enabled irregardless.
If big brother is worried that because the app is known to have issues on our devices then they need only to disable the ability to rate the app for that specific user. But that's about it, as it's fairer to both parties involved. We shouldn't have to go through the hassle of having to have to keep looking for ways around something that only goes to further slow down progress, or downloading and installing APK files every time there's an update to our apps (some of which were paid for)!
We need to attack the disease at its source rather than treat the symptoms.
What the issue is basically is that "power" users prefer to use tweaked settings that the market doesn't like despite the fact that those same apps Google deems incompatible, when installed as APKs, actually work flawlessly.
I figured we should have this thread focus on the following issues:
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1. Have something of a Database (or at least a simple list for now) of all the apps that El Goog doesn't want us to install. Just to emphasize the issue as there are quite a bit of apps that work flawlessly and appear in the market, while others aren't (in some cases without the developer's own wishes or knowledge for that matter). And we then label them as working 100% perfectly well or buggy under conditions Y and Z.
We make the list of all apps that are known to be incompatible and actually are! So far I've not encountered a single one. And I've been using my freak device with its freaky settings for a year+ now.
2. This is something I'm still thinking about and am not 100% sure if should be done. Start a petition on Change.org and bring this to big brother's attention as he tends to ignore the little guy. In numbers there's strength.
3. Get a list of app developers who are aware of the issue and support our cause. The reason for three is because I've been in contact with one app developer who was turned down by big brother after pursuing help with this issue because they "don't provide support for custom roms." And it's OK that they don't, as it's reasonable enough. But give us the option of opting out if you think it's wise to, and opt in even if it might cause issue. We're adults for god's sake.
4. Make a list of currently available solutions to fix the so-called 'feature' while we're waiting for an actual fix.
I'll keep this post as updated as I can with the latest known and consistently updated fixes for this 'bug'. Yeah, I said it.
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So far every single app I used worked flawlessly on my I9100 running CM10 with DorimanX custom kernel. I've set the DPI to 160 and I can't imagine myself going back to anything above that. And to emphasize, I've had these setting (or at least the DPI and CM) for so long now (about a year) that I forget sometimes that I'm using something that isn't exactly 'standard', per se.
I mean, if you can live with the default dpi then that's cool, good for you. But I've had a taste of the forbidden fruit, and now I can't go back. . . .
I'm not going to start crusading just yet. First I'd like your, the community of XDA, input on this issue before we do anything. If you have any suggestions or criticism you'd like to share with us, I'd like to hear it, personally. For I may be wrong about the whole thing. Call it, lacking in confidence.
Thank you.
Reserved, just in case.
Also reserved, just in case.
Well this is fantastic. Congrats on the nerve for writing this freakishly long post. That's what I was thinking since the moment I encountered "I'm sorry, but we think this won't work as planned on your device and we deem you stupid enough to make wrong choices, so we'll just put this install button on this shelf right here, where you can't reach it" error.
However, I just said screw it, there's tons of sites where I can just download what I want without anyone questioning my motives and whether it will work or not. Never thought of it as a big deal, just as a tougher way of doing stuff, but not much I can do about it.
To get to the point, I support this cause, will sign whatever I need to sign, but am to lazy to start it myself Just wanted to give you some support. If you're willing to put some more time into this, maybe this is the beggining of a revolution! Revolution of geeks with custom DPIs! But it's still something damn it!
Cheers mate!
Sent from my Desire HD using xda app-developers app
Thank you, Uros. I was happy to read your reply.
It seems that there is no interest in this, however. Very unfortunate, but I suppose if this is what the people want. . . . It was worth a try.
Thanks for your effort.
I am rather curious to know if this is because people were going "tl;dr" or they're genuinely not interested in having this issue fixed. I just need to know so that I could make the proper adjustments.
Granted, it would take a bit longer, but as Goethe said, "I apologize in advance, had I had more time, this letter would be shorter."
Or is it that most people believe that the odds of getting Google to listen to us are too small?
There's a reason why Google won't give us the option to install anyway, just as there's a reason as to why this probably hasn't been noticed by as many people as preferred.
It all comes down to noobs.
Regarding this thread, the noobs are probably coming across this thread and click because they're interested by the title. They see all the text and think "F&#k that!". Unfortunately, that is generally the noob mentality.
Maybe colouring some of the text and spacing it out a little bit more could help the cause, but only time would tell.
Now onto the matter at hand.
I personally don't think Google will allow us to install apps anyway (even though I think they should) because noobs are super dangerous to themselves. In general, noobs won't read which then means that if they go to install an app which isn't compatible and install it anyway, they won't read that it could potentially harm their device.
The other type of user to make a mistake when it comes to installing such apps, would be the general android population. After all, us here on XDA are but a small proportion of Android users globally. Just because we have knowledge about what should and shouldn't be on our devices and how to make things work which shouldn't, the average Android user isn't the same.
They'd probably see the message and simply think "It says it could harm my phone but it's a great phone so nothing will go wrong". That is where problems can then occur.
The noobs and the average android owner would then have mucked up their device in one way or another and would be blaming and complaining to Google (as if it was Google's mistake). That makes it cause more harm than good, hence why I don't think it will happen.
Just my 2 cents, of course
''Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver''

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