Database Info

GPS, WiFI, BT and Camera All in One Phone

:!: Sorry for the shameless attempt to get you here with a dreamy subject but it's relevant to the topic - honestly. :!:
I'm after a PDAPhone with built in everything. But looks so far like I'm going to have to compromise and get an external GPS receiver, however was just hoping someone might have a little gem that I couldn't find anywhere else in the forums.
I have owned and loved the O2 XDA range ever since my first XDA years ago and have since lugged around an XDAII. I damaged my II recently and have a nice cheque for £550 burning a hole in my pocket courtesy of the insurance company. This means that for the first time ever I don't need to go to a subsidised model. My initial thought was that I'd stump up a few extra quid and get a JamJar :lol: from expansys but now I'm a bit more mature I decided to check out the options first.
So far I've found (Ignoring Naming Variations):
Prices quoted are from expansys - they could be cheaper elsewhere. Pls let me know if you find any (UK Only though)
:arrow: iPAQ hw6515 - Looks a bit crap, small screen and no wi-fi listed but DOES have GPS & 1.3Mp Cam - Anyone know of any Square Aware issues with programs?
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=120563
:idea: £439.95
:arrow: i-mate JAM - Small and sexy but no Wi-Fi and no GPS but would stop people asking if I've got a brick taped to my head. + 1.3Mp, COuld afford external GPS with this one.
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=I-MATE_JAM
:idea: £359.95
:arrow:Qtek 9090- Has everything But GPS but would leave enough money for a BT GPS - No camera spec but I think it's 0.3Mp like the XDAIIs - Could be upgraded to WM5, My Mate has one and the Thumb Keyboard is easy to use whilst walking - If I use my head not my geekometer this is my favourite.
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=QTEK_9090
:idea: £414.95
:arrow: i-mate JASJAR - Dogs balls but still no GPS and not much more than the 9090 + v Expensive & Getting Bigger - 1.3Mp Cam I think. (I have no 3G service anywhere near me so that's not a bonus) I really like the 3.5mm Jack - Overall a severe number of geek points! NO CRADLE Still needs GPS Seperate, not sure how useable while walking the keyboard will be. I really want one.
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=119353
:idea: £669.95
:arrow: i-mate K-JAM - WiFi, BT etc, Smaller and lighter than Universal, WM5, 1.3Mp. I like the keyboard. Maybe my new best choice. JUST leaves enough money to think about an external GPS. Thanks JamiJam
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=125518
:idea: £504.95
My criteria to consider are as follows, argue with them and persuade me otherwise with reasons if you so wish:
Phone + PDA Essential (Tri Band+)
Camera - Prefer 1+Mp
BT - Must Have
Wi-Fi - Optional but Preferred a lot
3G - Not required
Keyboard - Like to Have (It's awkward using handwriting when travelling)
GPS - Very Nice to Have I Drive a lot and would like to use TT in the future.
OS - Not Bothered, these can be changed
I have 1 Month to decide before I burst and spray money all over the place so I'd really appreciate any comments you might have.
Don't go off on any obscure tangents though please, post them in a new topic and link to it if you wish.

Wizard...
(aka K-Jam, aka Qtek 9100)

Not sure when it will be out but Orange are going to release the Wizard and call it the SPV M600. If you can wait then you'll have it subsidised. :wink:

hmmmmm
Ok, so far the Wizard is my favourite now. I'd completely forgotten about that. What's the keyboard like though? I'm not too fussed about the size (the one on the XDA III is smaller and still useable)? It's more the key action I'm bothered about.
Does it have those rubbish 'rubbery' 'spectrum' style keys? It looks like it does.
I'm still yearning for a Universal cos none of my mates will have one but my head is still saying I don't need it and one of the others will do everything I want.

AFAIK HTC has some kind of arrangement with compaq - HTC will not make a phone with GPS as it competes with a model HTC makes for compaq that does have GPS or something like that (the hw6515 maybe ?)
I have a Blue Angel (O2 XDA IIs) and it does all of this.
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=I-MATE_III
WM5 now available and working fine on it.
It has a keyboard too, it's those blister things (more like a ZX81 than a spectrum) but it is useable, although the keyboard layout is a bit ****e.
What with the newer models coming out you should be able to pick one up cheapish.
I run mine with a Globalsat Bt-338 Bluetooth GPS and Tomtom 5

oh, and FYI, this PDA holder from halfords holds the BA perfectly and can be mounted to your dash. It obscures no ports.
(The pic is upside down BTW)
http://www.halfords.com/opd_product_details.asp?id=16600&type=0&cat=397

The keyboard on the wizard is excellent, in my humble opinion!
It also snaps in and out in a way that makes you feel it won't break down easily.
Finally, it automatically turns the phone's display into landscape mode, which is very handy.

Wizard or BA
I have to say I'm still impressed with the Wizard. Just made a scale model out of card (how sad is that) and it's tiny!
I like the BA but if the keyboard doesn't let the Wizard down I think it'll be my PDA of choice. The one thing I really didn't like about the Jam was its lack of Wi-Fi and that's solved in the K-Jam.
I assume the screen's readable, I like to think that I'll have good eyesight for a couple of years yet so I don't think the size will be an issue.

iPaq HW6515
I have tried without success to get details of the built-in GPS. The one authoritative source to whom I spoke was scathing about its performance. So whatever you do choose, I do not recommend the iPaq.
On a separate note I saw my first Jasjar close up today. It is lighter than you might think, but heavier than is reasonable for prolonged use as a phone. A bluetooth earpiece was being used that included a display for caller ID. As a data device it is pretty impressive.
I too run a GlobalSat BT-338 GPS, in my case with Mapopolis.

if you are going GPS, make sure it is SIRFstar III chipset (the current latest-and-greatest), especially if you live in a city as they are really good at "urban canyon" reception.
I have seen new BT-338s on ebay for £65 "buy it now" recently

plus another thing to think about...
a seperate BT GPS unit has various advantages:
1) Battery
It won't drain your PPC battery when operating, except the charge needed to communicate via BT.
2) Upgrading
If a new improved GPS unit comes out and you have an onboard GPS unit, you are carrying useless baggage and can't sell the old one.
Also bear in mind there will likely be new features added to GPS units.
one example: digital compass. At the moment, if you stand still and rotate, a GPS unit has no clue which way you are facing until you move. A GPS does already transmit heading AFAIK - it works out which way you are facing by assiming you are looking in the direction of travel. Integration of a digital compass therefore would probably require no changes to the protocol. This does exist ( see http://www.xemics.com/internet/solutions/compass.jsp?productID=108 )
3) Switching.
BT GPS units work on laptopss too you know
4) Safety. I use my GPS for a sport called mountain boarding. Same kinda deal as downhill mountain biking, I trace a route I have done using GPS software. I ride with my XDA in a reinforced case with foam in, but find the GPS reception suffers, so I keep the BT GPS unit in my bag and the XDA in the case.
Seeing as the XDA is MUCH more valuable than the GPS this makes sense.
5) Reception versus viewing position.
Sometimes the position with best reception is not the same as the position you can see the screen of your PPC best.

????
Good point.
Ok, more questions on the K-Jam
Camera: Says 1.3/2 Is this 1.3 with software to 'frig' it to 2?
Keyboard: Is the expansys keyboard silver ( http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=125518 ) or black ( http://www.expansys.com/zoompic.asp?type=item&code=125518 )
Silver ones look plastic whereas black ones look rubbery. Which have you got JamiJam? Is it from Expansys?
Processor: 200Mhz? Is that right? Seems quite a drop. Do you have any problems with media playback? I remember my XDA I used to have a problem playing big avi files.
Ta Very Much

Camera is 1.3MP, and it is ****.
Yes, it's better than the Magician, but it's still pretty bad. I wouldn't buy the Wizard hoping to use the camera for anything useful. In my opinion this is the #1 point on which HTC is lacking. They've worked on everything else, now they need to start putting decent cameras in these devices.
I have the silver keyboard and I bought my Wizard in a store. I believe that if you order from expansys you'll get a silver one.
Processor is 200MHz (different CPU architecture) but it seems to be on par with the Magician in practice, maybe 10% slower. So yes, you should be able to watch full screen movies, once you find a bit-rate/resolution/format that works for you. Not sure which XDA you had, but I would expect similar ballpark performance.
Hope this helps.

Ta
The 'performance lacking' XDA was the original XDA I and I'll take your word for it that performance is ok. I don't use it for anything too hot and my XDA II never had a problem with films.
To be honest, every camera phone I've had from the XDA Range was ****ty quality (Very grainy) but I spend a fair bit of time on site collecting info on wagons and stuff for my job and it's always handy to be able to snap a quick video or pic of something. The only reason I want a higher res is so that when some tit with a Sony Ericson goes on about his 2Mp camera I don't loose too many 'top trumps' points. I never print the pics and my main contract doesn't support GPRS so I don't often send MMS. You'd be surprised how easily you can still get by with just plain old WAP.
Good news on the silver buttons. I prefer them. Has anyone bought one from Expansys who can verify?

Sweetness & Joy
Just thought I'd post my decision for those of you who like seing things through to a conclusion.
After much ponderation and constructing various cardboard models I have decided on the HTC Wizard, purchased from expansys (i-Mate K-Jam). There's a delay on delivery at the moment (3 Days!!!! I can't wait) but once it arrives I'll post back with my oppinions.
I've also heard that my mate is buying the JasJar so I'll be able to make a comparison and post it back.
***************************
:!: Come on Friday! :!:
***************************
D'oh! Just a note not say the expansys delivery has been put back but they've dropped the price too.
***************************
:!: Come on Some-Day! :!:
***************************
Just been looking at some larger photos of the buttons
http://forum.xda-developers.com/files/keyboard-flash.jpg
I take back my spectrum comments, they look pretty good.

Hurrah!
Ok! I've got my Wizard at last. I ended up buying the Qtek 9100 rather than the K-Jam. Looks like I'll miss out on Club i-Mate. :-(
Thought I'd post my views on the phone here just to give closure to anyone reading this thread.
The screen is very sharp. Everything obviously is smaller because the pixels are closer together but the overall effect is a very good screen. The guy in our office with really bad eyesight liked it and he's normally a miserable git when it comes to gadgets.
I take back my comments about the keyboard, it looks fantastic, the action is really great and you can use it to type replies to text messages on the move, which is something I've always struggled with before using the Transcriber. People are also really impressed when the screen rotates thru' to landscape.
I've used it for playing some music and although the speakers built in are tinny as you'd expect, the headphones are really good. I don't know if they'd be the same for the i-Mate but they fit comfortably in my ears and have a very good sound compared to the old XDA & XDA II headphones (Not that that would be hard)!
I miss having a cradle. It was nice to be able to display your phone on your desk while it was charging. Just using a USB cable makes it all feel a bit less sexy as an experience but then you can't have everything I suppose.
The coolest thing I found was the Stylus. It's about 50mm long when it first comes out of the phone. Then you give it a little pull and it extends to... hold on let me get a ruler... 85mm. It's not as comfy to use as the XDA/XDA II styli but since i haven't used it for writing much it doesn't matter. The keyboard is so easy to pull out and use that I've only really used the stylus to point at stuff so that my fingers don't get the screen dirty. The softkeys in WM 2005 also mean that you rarely need to touch the screen.
It's a bit chunkier than I expected but still not big. It's only marginally bigger than my girlfriends Nokia 6230 and compared to an older XDA model it feels like it's tiny!
Voice recognition button on the side works really well so far. I've got about 10 contacts programmed in and it seems to be picking them up ok, even in the car.
Overall, i'm yet to find much of a fault with it. I'll try to get some piccies of bits posted sometime next week.
Feel free to ask any questions.

JASJAR II
When the damn thing releases.....of course
I really wouldnt auction my spare kidney and buy it, and then suffer with a RAM deficit! My xda 2 currently running on wm5, has 128megs ram and 32megs rom....compared to 43megs ram & rom of jasjar........one word.......RIDICULOUS!
i cant believe seeing a 7MB RAM free on a device, and i dont ever want to see it! HTC/ IMATE/ Whoever claim they put in less RAM for extended battery life....bucket of crap! I really dont care for those couple extra hours that i'd probably get, and i dont mind carrying a spare battery or a charger wherever i go....
Its a handicap which is BIG! Besides this, the Jasjar is divinely irresistable, and i cant stop oggling at it :shock:
So, i guess i'll wait for a JJ II to come out with same form factor, and somemore ram which would make the device practical....
HTC do you hear me??????
San

weeel
:shock:
RAM isn't everything. I have been using the device for a day now (Non-stop), often running WMP10, Outlook, PIE etc also playing Tomb Raider. I haven't noticed any diference between this and my XDA II which had I think 64Mb and a 400 odd MHz processor. The odd app is a trifle slow to load up but nothing more major than that.
If the battery life sacrifice is true, then it's not for this little puppy. All this usage (with wi-fi on but not actually using a wi-fi network) and the battery didn't drop below 60% yesterday (Using lightly whilst at work and heavily in the evening. I even synced using bluetooth).
Memory has crept down to 1Mb program mem free at times but I assume windows is just doing its thing because this comes back up after a while and I don't notice any drop in performance.

Re: Hurrah!
eayuwna said:
I miss having a cradle. It was nice to be able to display your phone on your desk while it was charging. Just using a USB cable makes it all feel a bit less sexy as an experience but then you can't have everything I suppose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This site: http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/5735.htm claims that this desktop charger/cradle is compatible with the K-Jam so if that's true then it should be OK for your QTek. 8)

Best PDA nowadays?

I tried the search button but couldn't find my answer.
My XDA II is having some "age issues" and I'm planning on replacing it.
But, what is the best choice nowadays? What is the best replacement for my XDAII? I'd like a similar one but with WM5, better camera maybe, WIFI, BT and a powerful but stable processor of course. I’m using Tomtom navigation on it as well.
Thanks for the advice.

Hard to say. I'd say, right now, either the Wizard or, if the price difference isn't a problem, the TyTN. I wouldn't myself get the Universal - I have both the Univ and Wizard and prefer the latter in everyday life.
Or, if you don't mind the need for manual import, the new VGA Gigabyte i128 (see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=273825 ).
Finally, you can wait for the O2 Flame / HTC Omni, they're hopefully much better than the Universal

Thanks for the quick reply Menneisyys, I'm looking into it.
TYTN looks promising..

Hello,
I would say that the best choice at the moment is TyTN. I have one and I must say that this is it. I have had also Universal for some time so I've compared them and for me TyTN is better. Maybe the processor is 400MHz but from what I've heard Samsung has better architecture that Intel. For me it's enough, besides I must tell that Universal sometimes had some lags (probably the reason is VGA screen). You can compare technical details and besides VGA screen (and eventually the processor) TyTN has better tech specs. It's smaller, fits in your pocket without problems (Universal is really much bigger, i can send photo of these two lying to each other if you want) and i prefer the keaboard of TyTN as well. I must say that I'm very pleased with this device

i dont want the slide keyboad and the thickness it adds so imho
Trinity is what i would get

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=284452
id say wait a lil while

toemke said:
I tried the search button but couldn't find my answer.
My XDA II is having some "age issues" and I'm planning on replacing it.
But, what is the best choice nowadays? What is the best replacement for my XDAII? I'd like a similar one but with WM5, better camera maybe, WIFI, BT and a powerful but stable processor of course. I’m using Tomtom navigation on it as well.
Thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is hard to say what is the best pda it all depends on your usage and what qualities you prefer in pda. I would say HTC Artemis/HTC P3300/O2 XDA Orbit is one of the best. It has integrated GPS, pretty compact and very light for Pocket PC, decent screen, good phone functionality and good battery life.

that samsung is not a phone though it's more of a microlaptop
and i know as soon as i get a device with gps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_positioning_system
will hit and blow gps out of the water

It is hard to say what is the best pda it all depends on your usage and what qualities you prefer in pda.
v.v good point well made

Hi Rudegar, long time no see.
Thanks to all of you for the inputs.
I think I narrowed it down to TYTN or Trinity.
Next stop is E-Bay...
Thanks again.

toemke said:
I tried the search button but couldn't find my answer.
My XDA II is having some "age issues" and I'm planning on replacing it.
But, what is the best choice nowadays? What is the best replacement for my XDAII? I'd like a similar one but with WM5, better camera maybe, WIFI, BT and a powerful but stable processor of course. I’m using Tomtom navigation on it as well.
Thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi have look at this.
http://www.4winmobile.com/viewtopic.php?p=42938
It provide a good over view, and some more links to see if there is any one else out there that can answers your question. After my current phones contract expires, end of Feb, I will get one. I can’t wait…

Now this is what I call a review! Looks like a great device.
Thanks treecare.

Rudegar said:
that samsung is not a phone though it's more of a microlaptop
and i know as soon as i get a device with gps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_positioning_system
will hit and blow gps out of the water
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Galileo is still some way off becoming operational - I should worry about it just now.

If you want a one hand phone, you should definitely look into a P525 by ASUS. The benchmark tests are amazing. I'm getting mine in 2 days.

My Universal is over a year old and I still love it. I don't think that for me the TyTn is a replacement for the Universal. I simply love the large VGA screen and the keyboard, though this comes with a downside of large size. However during this time I never felt that it was too large not to be pocketable.
I will wait till a device comes out with a large VGA screen and a qwerty keyboard.
But as we all agree these are personal preferences. I do a lot of work on the Planmaker spreadsheet and a lot of browsing using Netfront and so a good screen is probably on the highest priority.
Regards

I use mine mostly as a phone, planning of agenda's, calculations, tomtom navigation, Aviation navigation and utilities, camera and some utilities from programs I installed on it.
My XDA II did just fine but I miss the WM5. Rotating screens and stuff and the fact that is starting to show some defects (sound disappearing, self soft reset...)
I want the same PDA but up to date..I think I got a pretty good idea of what I want now. TYTN, Trinity or XDA Orbit.

any orbit 2 users?

Hi Guys,
I've not been on here for a while. I'm a relatively happy Trinity user, I've flashed the ROM a couple of times to upgrade to WM6 & to turn on GPS initially but apparently I'm eligible for a free upgrade.
So WDYT is the Orbit 2 a good bet? I have this or the 'Stellar / TYTN II' as my options I think.
I'm quite happy not having a keyboard but does anyone know is it the kind of thing you appreciate when you have it?
I've also read about issues with the volume button but not necessarily with the Orbit 2 (reworked O2 version for the UK).
Is there anything I should be wary of. It seems like a decent bit of kit but I have not seen one in the flesh yet.
Thanks for any help.
A

i would prob read this thread which is pretty much about what you are tinking about....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=374046

thanks, yes I've seen that one.
I think the key difference is both are free to me and it would be the reworked orbit2 rather than polaris.
Does anyone know if the orbit2 fixes the vol slider issue with the Polaris?
Thanks,
A

Hi Mushroom,
The Vol slider is not really an issue on the Orbit. Ok it make rattle a lil if you shake it voilent and can be a lil hard to slide as its really smoothe with little raised part in the middle for gripping. To me this isnt an issue as i harldy use it.
Nogs

I would recommend orbit 2. I upgraded from orbit 1.
The Orbit 2 is much, much better. Fast, great touch screen, lots of memory.
O2 rom is good, I like the input screens, e.g expanded keypad. I doubt I would ever use a hard keyboard.
Volume button is no problem on my phone.
Great GPS functionality, I can pick up a signal sitting inside at a desk by a window.
I've upgraded the sd card to 8gb and bought a stereo bluetooth head set.
A2DP STEREO BLUETOOTH HEADSET.
Excellent phone

Orbit II
I owned a Stella for 2 months, the build quality is awful and the size of the phone makes it feel clumsy. The keyboard is actually to small to be of any real use and the symbols almost impossible to get to easily. When the directional pad came loose I had a massive argument with o2 who finally relented and let me exchange it for an Orbit II which apart from a couple of loses of the storage card memory is the best XDA to date and I've owned the entire series!
Get the Orbit II

cheers for the info guys.
I am now a happy Orbit 2 owner. Lovely piece of kit and with O2 it came with an in card holder, SPB GPRS monitor, Copilot the lot. I've since installed all the bits from my previous machine and made it mice and it runs very nicely.
There is still room for improvement, the camera lag is very poor, FM reception not good but there are still great improvements over the Trinity so I am a happy bunny. Web browser seems slow too but I might have had other things open at the same time.
I will just keep watching to see if there are any issues reading memory cards over the next few weeks like there were on Trinity before I go out and buy a new one.
I agree with the comments about the stellar, after seeing one they just don't appear in the same league unless you are a serious keyboard addict but with the input options on the Orbit 2 you wouldn't need the keyboard.
Thanks for the help.

I had the HTC Hermes and moves to the UK Orbit 2 - Best decision.
There are just two problems in my opinion with the Orbit 2; Camera is slow (you need to hold a shot for at least 3 secs AFTER you press the capture button so that it captures the picture). Secondly Video playback is slow though I hear HTC are working on a fix for both.
The pro is that this is one sexy-ass piece of equipment. Looks expensive and people are in awe at its capabilities.

Agree that the volume slider rattle is a non-issue on the orbit 2.
Camera is quite good (for 7 by 5 prints), but not if viewing at full resolution but then I didn't expect anything approaching my SLR's
The thing that really annoys me about the camera is that the button is so hard to press.
Half press (for focus lock) is OK, but you have to apply so much pressure to get the full travel on the button that you often end up with camera shake.
You can modify the settings so that it takes a picture on half press - but then the photo lag ensures you hardly ever get a picture of what you were aiming at!

Orbit 2 Owner
I got the Orbit 2 from Ebay because I HAD to have one and i havent regretted it since. I did have a Tytin II but I just didnt need the keyboard. The orbit is sleek, stylish, light, not bulky. I deleted CoPilot and installed Tom Tom and it works great, fast. The first time I loaded Tom Tom I was inside a building and all of a sudden I had 4 satellites!! Only complaint is the video playback. The volume slider is not an issue and havent noticed anything with it. I do love the touchscreen also. I am waiting on a program that will allow you to change the touch flow cubes to whatever you like instead of getting into the registry. I paid the price getting this unit but am not disappointed at all.

How did you get Tom Tom to work, cus i thought it wasn't compatible with internal GPS ? also what issues are you having with the video playback, is it when watchung videos ? I had a dellaxim x51v before and was hoping this would be a repalcement for it

Considering Orbit 2...a few questions

I currently have a Blue Angel and I'm considering upgrading to an Orbit 2.
How would the performance compare between the 2? They're both 400MHz, but I just wondered how the Qualcomm is compared to the XScale?
Apart from the video driver issue, are there any other problems with it? I'd mainly be usig it for a phone, and running Tomtom.
Thanks!

Seriously... Don't bother!

LOL...it's that bad?
Can you explain why?

You will miss your qwerty. I don't know your Blue Angel, But my TC (i think all PocketPCs) has a delay when somebody calls you. Your phone will ring/vibrate after the one who calls you hears the first ring. So if somebody just gives you a call with one ring (bip) you won't hear it! Is it the same in your case, or mine is special? Maybe somebody else with TC can confirm/infirm this...

Yea, mine sort of have that sort of dealy.
I don't use my QWERTY keyboard anyway so that's not a problem.

the_scotsman said:
LOL...it's that bad?
Can you explain why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just everything about it...
The build quality is terrible. Feels like a new hobbyist threw it together in 5 mins.
It seriously underperforms compared to my Old SE P990i and older XDA's
The modifications o2 have made to the software are rubbish.
I'm miffed I didn't hold out for the SE X1i

^ In your opinion, yes its not perfect, the screen is less than ideal but the build quality is great I think. Much better than my old SE P series phone which used to creak whenever squeezed etc and the flush screen is better than orbit 1
But I would hold out for the Diamond

I want the built in GPS, and the Diamond prices ae too much for what it is...
Any other decent HTCs with built in GPS?

the_scotsman said:
I currently have a Blue Angel and I'm considering upgrading to an Orbit 2.
How would the performance compare between the 2? They're both 400MHz, but I just wondered how the Qualcomm is compared to the XScale?
Apart from the video driver issue, are there any other problems with it? I'd mainly be usig it for a phone, and running Tomtom.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've just switched from a Hermes/Tytn to the Orbit2. HardSPL'd it and installed the WM6.1 that's been floating about here and installed TomTom.
Losing the keyboard is a bit annoying (on screen is usable, but nowhere near as good) - but I realized I very rarely typed anything and smaller sized massively outweighs it.
GPS works very well - especially as Quick GPS which really does work.
Downsides:
Lost keyboard.
Upsides:
GPS - now just not having to lug around and charge my BT GPS module, but now much faster and lets me do all manner of stuff (geo-tag photos with a reg tweak), GPS trackers allowing me to see where I've been in google maps blah blah.
Much better camera - not so much the 2M -> 3M change - but AUTOFOCUS.
SMALLER - now it's not a small phone, but it's not an f'in brick like the last one.
No real difference noticed between the processors. Latest 6.1 I put on my Hermes made it lovely and snappy - and performs exactly the same on the Polaris. Only reservation I've got with the polaris is the screen res (i.e. same old rubbish). Not entirely convinced Hi-res WM is much better though after playign with colleagues PDAs - I've got an ipod touch and THAT is what i'd want somehow wedged into my phone..
In summary, if you want a phone now, I'd definitely get the XDA. If you can wait maybe see how Diamond and 3G iPhone stack up.
#edit - and build quality on my XDA (at least) is perfect. Nice solid feeling thing, love the slightly rubberized case.

Thanks very much for your opinion...I think I might just go with the Orbit 2 after all...a VGA screen would be nice, but I'm happy enough to have the standard one...and it's a little smaller than my BLue Angel so that's always a benefit.

Seriously this is an outstanding device. Software is software and any issues can 99% of the time be sorted with it and normally are, especially when you browse around these forums. Also bare in mind that all these devices now use windows mobile so I don't understand why someone would fault the Orbit 2 over another windows mobile device because of the software it comes with.....anyway the hardware itself is exceptional, I've posted a mini review if you look through my post history and there's plenty of in-depth reviews out there.
Losing the keyboard is a good thing in my opinion. A keyboard isn't necessary, its just as easy (if not easier) to use the software input (my personal preference is a T9 style pad that learns words and is very quick to use with just one hand like a normal phone) and obviously you save on weight and bulk.
The Orbit 2 looks great, is extremely responsive and comfortable to use and in my opinion is the best windows mobile device availible at this time.
Quick edit! - regarding the SW, the rom that the O2 Orbit 2 comes with is actually fine anyway, i've never encountered any issues with it - it would be nice to have the threaded SMS that 6.1 has but aside from that its fine and works great. Cheers!

SOunds like you're pretty damn happy with it then
So the 200MHz processor isn't an issue? Still responds well? Thing like TOmtom run well?

The Orbit 2 has a 400MHz CPU, it was the original Orbit that had 200 -it also has twice the amount of memory. TomTom was perfectly useable on the original Orbit but it noticeably runs smoother on the Orbit 2 - The Orbit 2 is a lot better at managing multiple tasks at the same time.
I was in two minds before upgrading becasue I had the original Orbit and wasn't sure if I'd get my money's worth. I was going to send it back if I wasn't happy with it. I'm more than happy with it though as you can tell! its a great device. You've always got that 14 day cooling period with O2 anyway so you may as well give it a go for yourself.

doh...you're right...I was thinking of the original Orbit.
No 14 day cooling off for me..I'm in Australia so the only way to get at a decent price is eBay.
I think I've been convinced to get the Orbit 2...just a pity it doesn't have VGA...and the diamond will probably be a fair amount more than the Orbit 2

Actually a the Diamond will be cheaper then the Polaris/Orbit2... But my oppinion is that the VGA is too much on a 2.8" screen...

The Orbit 2 is a damn good toy... after tuning the cache and graphic settings..speed was even better than before..
also gps works great...a lot of stuff in a small little case...

I am also happy with my orbit 2, copilot in mo is better then tomtom i have both installed.
I like golive's interface and extra settings plus the website for tracking is a good feature.
The Software available is none stop from here and other sources, unlike the iphone i had that you could only load decentish software if you hacked it..
a couple of minor gripes, the screen is a little shiny for sunny day use and the camera could be alot better.
apart from that i am very happy with it, let hops the diamond touch flo 3d becomes available then that will make this device look great.
the hsdpa speed is great when in the right areas, 50k download speed from my laptop...
the gps seems acurate enough, fast on a warm start as well.
its performance could be a little better but overall its very good.
I would install opera mini as i have found this much better then ie and opera mobile for day to day use.
as for the missing keyboard, try touchpal or the diamond keyboards, also make sure you adjust the sensivity of the screen do a search on here, i think the keyboard is great been software as you can load loads of different types and type quicker with the stylus on some over a flip out keyboard.
the flip out keyboard types can be a little thicker as well you cannot replace or remap keys like a software keyboard so there are plus's and minus's to both concepts...
if you type alot then get a bluetooth keyboard, or a laptop.....
i don't think you will b unhappy with your purchase...

Actually imho any HTC device when just introduced will very rarely be upto my expectation and initially i am always dissapointed,for the first few days,its just a matter of customizing(a heart felt thanks to this forum for teaching us how too) to our personal choice and then i just can't seem to live without them.When i took the Cruise i returned it the next day,very dissapointed with the handset,nothing it could do(and in the factory state it could'nt domuch)was enough,I thought that my Kaiser was far better,then after going through the Cruise forum went and picked it up again,customized it and now wonder how did I ever think negatively abbout this handset,I just love it the feel of it in my hand and also the perfomance,ended up keeping both the Kaiser and Cruise without regrets.

A bit of clarification on vibrate (or lack thereof)...

Hello all:
I've been trying to do my homework dilligently to decide whether I buy a x7510 or not. To me, the lack of vibrate is a showstopper.
However, in one review posted on pocketpcthoughts.com, I read that the vibrate function is enabled when the keyboard is attached.
Is this accurate or not?
What does "keyborad is attached" mean exactly; does it mean "attached" as in "covering the screen", or "attached as in "typing mode"?
Thanks all for any hints here.

That review/opinion is not correct.
The X7510 does not have a phone vibrate function- these are generally built into the battery pack or on the motherboard.
The keyboard 'vibrate' feature refers to the 'haptic feedback' enabled on the X7510's hardware keyboard, which gives a small vibration and sound 'pulse' when any key is pressed, as the keys have no physical travel.

Thank you very much for the clarification !

It's still a good device!

Yes, I am sure it is a great device.
I am somewhat concerned though since I've used vibrate functions forever, and if I were to go with the X7510, I'd like to use it as a phone as well (with BT headset, something I've used for what it seems forever as well .
I have read about some workarounds (like recording a vibrating phone and use it as a ringtone), so I am still thinking about it. But the review at pocketpcthoughts threw me off a bit; I am glad you clarified.
My problem is that I am absolutely against ringing phones; they are so disruptive :-(
Do you use it as a phone? Do you have another workaround?
Thanks again...

IMHO
The xda universal is still the best pda on the market. I would never recommend purchasing this device (x7510). The phone features is 'average' at best.
Just me 2 cents

orinoco said:
Do you use it as a phone? Do you have another workaround?
Thanks again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The short answer is no- I don't use it as a phone unless in emergencies. I use mine mainly as a reference, research and media device, and my Diamond as my primary phone.
When I do use it as a phone, I use it with a BT headset. My Plantronics earpiece does have a 'beep' or 'vibrate' function so I simply have the ringer sound on the X7510 muted.
@youmeus: Granted, the XDA Exec/ HTC Universal was good in its day, but is very long in the tooth now. The processor and memory are both low and the GPS and 3G performance was pretty poor.
OK, it wasn't such a brick as a phone, but you do look a bit of a wally holding it to your ear, so it still really needs a BT headset. I used mine for a few months before changing to a Wizard/ XDA MiniS.
It's all in the eye of the beholder though

What do you need from the CD?
There's nothing on there that can't be downloaded from Microsoft .

to orinoco :- use the phone recorded vibrating buzz sound as advised by steve eagle post , it works pretty good , you can hear it for sure but u will feel the sound a bit if u are touching your device - only a bit though , dont expect the same as ordinary phone vibration .
to neilm :- yes u r right - it's a damn great device
to youmeus :- u r dead wrong , no way in this world this device will lose to your xda universal , x7510 of athena family is the king of pda , period ...
and please go back to your universal forum
thanks for reading , cheers to all athena owners - jimmunsw

My View
Hi Guys
I have a Universal and an Ameo (Athena) and using them both I would have to say that the ONLY place the Universal wins, is as a phone and its great keyboard. Dont get me wrong, the universal as a 4-5 year old phone is superb and some of the uni roms are as good as stock. It will do most of what you ask, but it lacks up to date hardware. The Athena as a laptop type replacement is exactly what it was made for, the phone is like a secondary item. HOWEVER if you use a styleI as a blue tooth addon the problem is gone If you switch the sound off then the styleI has a very quiet discreet ring. you answer the phone as you would a normal phone and the Athena stays in its case. I still look a bit of a prat using the Uni as a phone coz it is BIG, the Athena is only 15mm wider thats all. I only have both now coz the Uni is only making small bucks now, and you know how it is when its sitting on the shelf looking at you saying use me
Jay

Hi Jay- good to see you over here
I agree with your comments- the Ameo with BT headset is a good combination . Will you be getting an Ameo 16GB/X7510 then?

NeilM said:
Hi Jay- good to see you over here
I agree with your comments- the Ameo with BT headset is a good combination . Will you be getting an Ameo 16GB/X7510 then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its all about cost against what extra enhancements you get, so yes I would love to but the cost at the moment is a put off. apart from the extra 8gb, what would you say is better than the Ameo?
P.S dont tell the X7500 guys, I may get banned, talking to the X7510 lot and admitting to owning a Uni
Regards
Jay

responderman said:
P.S dont tell the X7500 guys, I may get banned, talking to the X7510 lot and admitting to owning a Uni
Regards
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We all have our little secrets
TBH if I hadn't got an X7510 (XDA Flint) free from O2, I would probably not consider upgrading from the X7500 apart from the fact that it's newer and less battered
The extra 8GB is nice but not essential for me, and there is always the miniSD for expansion.
In some ways the X7510 is a retrograde step- the lack of a joystick is a total PITA as there is no way to manually navigate some programs without executing a screen click.
The keyboard is a big improvement, but TouchPal is so good that I very rarely use the physical keyboard. The X7500 ROMs by Michy et all are every bit as good as the X7510 ROMs- no surprise I suppose as the hardware is identical in most respects.

I'd second all the good reviews of the XDA Shift (HTC Advantage X7510 with an O2 case). I've had two, yes count them, two XDA Execs (HTC universal with O2 case) because I couldn't find a device which was as universally adaptable as the Exec for several years. (did you see what I did there?)
With the addition of an external bluetooth GPS receiver and a bluetooth headset I had everything I needed. A decent size screen, hardware QWERTY keyboard (which is a must for me as I'm a writer, in fact my last novel was written almost exclusively on the Execs) Sat Nav (via tomtom nav 6) games, phone, browser, media player, and all-round super gadget in a clam shell with tablet mode swivel screen! Then my second Exec broke (from extreme over-use) and I had no option of a replacement as O2 no longer stocked them :-(
Then I discovered the Flint...
It has all of the benefits of the Exec but with more memory, bigger screen, built in GPS, and funky magnetics to boot! Admittedly it has no vibrate function, and O2 de-activate the G-sensor in their ROM (both of which I'm certain are functions that can be re-activated with cooked ROMS -at least I'm sure I've read on this here forum of such things being achieved- am I right?), but the benefits really outweigh these small issues for me.
So as a user who sang the praises of the XDA Exec for several years, I can say that the XDA Flint is a superb progression and excellent replacement device, well worth the £50/month contract to get it free (which includes unlimited data and texts, and 950 mins! -no, I don't work for O2).
(HTC and O2-you can pay me later

Hi Thintin- glad you like your Flint.
The G-sensor thing with O2 is odd. Some examples have a working hardware even with the O2 ROM though it needs G-Sen or similar to activate it. But some examples need a new, cooked ROM to get the G-sensor working and a small number seem to have it physically removed.
As one of a small group of pre-release testers for O2 we had a number of discussions about this- O2's line was that they requested NO G sensor in the hardware build, but HTC only did that with a small number. My 1st one definitely didn't have it, not did it have a working sub display. A replacement had both working with the O2 ROM, though a colleague never got subdisplay working, and another colleague never got the Gsensor working.
O2's Flint ROM is actually pretty good. It's very basic, but all the better for that. However, Michy's Lite WM6.1 is so much better

NeilM said:
...O2's Flint ROM is actually pretty good. It's very basic, but all the better for that. However, Michy's Lite WM6.1 is so much better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm hoping my device falls into the category of having the g-sensor, my sub-display works fine (I'm assuming this is the display that can be seen through the keyboard's letterbox shaped portal when the device is closed?). Glad to hear that Mitchy's lite ROM is better than the O2 one because I'm planning on flashing it soon.

Great vibrate ringtone
This works like a charm...