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So we have had many fantastic high-end pieces of hardware released, such as the HTC Diamond, HD, Samsung Omnia etc
but where is the software??!
All I see these days is developement for iPhone iPhone and iPhone. Do you remember the time when you could have any software need and you KNEW there was a windows mobile app out there to do the job.
Once of WM's advantages over the orignal iPhone were the thousands of apps - now it seems iPhone development in less than a year has overtaken WM development. iPhone gets plenty of cool new apps and we are snubbed..
Example
BBC iPlayer
Sky by Mobile
(Official) Facebook
Pandora
just where are the WM versions??!! I dont think WM is considered by developers to have any future, in terms of software - iPhone is the answer, however the limitations on the device and control apple have over the iPhone users media etc rules that out.
I love WM, I love the freedom, I love the range of devices out there - I just hate to see development dry up. After all, just what is WM without 'apps'?..
sadly it seems you are right
All this is happening just because I bought a HTC Diamond about 2 months ago...
I bought a UIQ3 device back in may and what happened? UIQ died! So I guess the same will happen to WM now, I bought the Diamond because I wanted to have lots of software to play with, I guess I was wrong.
Maybe it's time for me to kill the iPhone soon? I won't buy an iPhone before 2009 at least so iPhone users can stay calm for a while
Happily, I have to respectfully disagree!
Take a closer look to the - so called - iPhone Software Application. You will soon learn that there is no real piece of software developed other than WEB APPLICATION; they do not much more but 'fitting' the content of an ONLINE SERVICE on the iPhone screen!
With Windows Mobile on the other hand, you find a daily increasing ammount of software. For example, try to find something like GARMIN MOBILE XT, SYGIC McGuider or SPB Softwarehouse application for the iPhone. LOL, just don't say Google Maps - that is - once again - an ONLINE APPLICATION!
Not noticed by many, the WINDOWS MOBILE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT has gone different ways. Since everyone is entitled in these days to develop his own cool piece of software, there are entire communities out there, busy developing software for their own needs or helping others getting their stuff developed. Just check out the MSDN Forums for MOBILE DEVICES and you might get an impression what I am talking about.
Besides the HOBBY PROGRAMMERs developing for their own needs, even the commercial software market is releasing new application every day.
lets raise donation money for u to buy all iphone versions, and kill them, so we can have our software back
There is a cause to it. Maybe if Windows Mobile was less buggy and more user-friendly (maybe a more closed platform), it would be prevailing. But looking how little it changed in so long is a good clue of what's wrong. PalmOS pretty much died too because they never bothered giving its user anything else than barely updated Treos.
Windows Mobile won't die, but it will certainly not prevail. Nonetheless it still has its niche of developers, tweakers and do-it-all device lovers. What other mobile OS allows you to carry a photoshop clone one it?
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html
darthbane2k said:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html
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I think its pretty shameful.
Surur
Hmmm....
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.
i think this thread should be trash as its counter productive
rjgraves said:
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.
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That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me
This does not prove anything. In fact, I was just reading a recent study which suggests that based on the trends that symbian phones are the ones on the way out and that WM phones, IPhone and other smart phones are all on the rise. Look at the MOTO Razr - it use to be the best selling phone on the market, not anymore. In fact - Motorolla is hurting and at risk now because they can't come out with a device to compete against the new WM smartphones - IPhone, Android phones etc....
think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away
Calling it a dying OS is pretty meaningless based on the release of an application from a single group in the Microsoft Labs (like google labs, it's more like a play area). Microsoft Labs has released a number of things that were never meant to go anywhere, and often things that were discontinued despite being popular. Considering what the application does (in terms of audience), it's more likely that the application was released to test the Deep Zoom service, or at least build up it's user base. Assuming popularity of Seadragon, I wouldn't be surprised to see it included in a lot of WM7 phones when they come out soon. This is also a common move by microsoft, waiting to release an app until they can make a grand entrance with it, which packaging this along with WM7 definitely fits.
Also remember that WM6.1 is actually the oldest of the smartphone competitors out there. We all know that MS is going to be releasing 7 in the very near future, which by all reports should put it into the realm of ridiculously cool features and in many ways it will either match or exceed almost anything currently out.
Rudegar said:
think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second this
totally agree
WM is going nowhere for the short term, when we get like Palm OS *then* I'll worry.
to say because MS released one app for iPhone befroe WM means the WM is dying is like saying the MS Office for Mac foreshadowed the downfall of the PC!
All it really means is tha MS acknowledges there is another market for their products.
i think its ms making the point that even the die hardest mac fan cant live without ms products
I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.
motionmind said:
I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.
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Cannot be done.
Apple does not allow software in their app store that resembles or competes too directly with anything they are putting out. Zune would obviously be a direct competitor.
Obviously there's always jailbroken iphones which could install it, but most of the apps people install with that are small distribution and generally not a threat. If microsoft put out the Zune software specifically with jailbroken iphones in mind, it would take less than a blink before Apple's lawyers were having orgasms at the idea of getting MS into court.
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...but I only do that because I also believe that it would be a truly great thing to see Apple forced into allowing the Zune software after they've worked so hard to exclude fair competition in business (you know, the same thing that kept MS court for a decade)
Sorry if that sounds bad, I admit, I've hated apple since before there were hard drives in their computers
speed_pour said:
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...
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I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't mind having an iPhone if I could use my Zune subscription service with it. I've tried iTunes and it's really a cluttered mess compared to the Zune software, plus no subscription options. My wife has an iPhone and a Zune player because of this same issue.
derekwilkinson said:
That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me
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I can't confirm anything, but two years ago I think their R&D department consisted of a single guy with an old M505. Windows Mobile might not get all the cool stuff, but at least it's up to date and totally hackable.
I love the open platform and all its possibilities
I'm quite certain that there is a simple and clear reason for releasing seadragon on the iPhone before WM.
The iPhone exists in the form of two handsets only, and they are near identical hardware. This means that it is simple to write some code to make use of the CPU and graphics acceleration in the best possible way.
There are huge numbers of WM handsets, and they all have different capabilities and different hardware interfaces. This make it damn near impossible to code an application like seadragon. None also the dearth of genuinely impressive 3d games on the WM scene, as against the iPhone app store. Same reason.
Any games we make have to be tweaked for different resolution, hardware etc. Even the prolific developers (the guy behind s2u2, s2v etc.) finds it difficult and has to hard code in support for direct3d, opengl and all sorts of different things. Even then s2v struggles on the better phones out there.
I wonder why people keep reading msmobiles... it is the windows mobile equivalent of a tabloid, and the arguments the author keeps making over and over and over again can at best described as clownish.
http://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_a...windows_phone_7_series_platform-news-1456.php
It is still slow to respond to commands. Looks nothing more than a facelift.
Microsoft killed itself with this ****....
I mean, who would ever want this? It's completely illogical, Applish, slow and stupid.I think, that me and most of the people will stick to 6.5 ...
Actually, it looks VERY GOOD for me
No, I won't be probably using it since day one, but I'll consider it when there will be serious phones with it (HW keyboard, huge display like 4") and many software for it (different keyboards, I'm using swype few days and it's awesome).
All MS should have done like year ago was remake memory management of CE OS 5.2 (f.ck those SLOTs and use desktop-Windows-like mm), some other improvements and compile it against armv6 and force Qualcomm to give HTC drivers for 3D and 2D and this all stuff for low cost. Everything would work just like now, with thousand of apps, but faster and faster and faster and BETTER.
And then integrate HTC Sense on system-level, also many apps and cooperate with HTC on those UI and apps, not like now that MS does core and speaks with HTC only about core and UI is just only in hands of HTC.
donniesd said:
It is still slow to respond to commands. Looks nothing more than a facelift.
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Click to collapse
It's looks completely different, from the 6.5. It also behaves differently. It looks so responsive and quick. Don't know what to think about it's features. So far I like it, but I want to know more about Customization and Multitasking. I'll Wait until MIX10 to give my final judgment.
I am looking forward to it.
I think Microsoft should do this:
1) Make Windows Mobile 6.5 be the OS for geeks looking for complexity.
2) Make Windows Phone 7 Series be the OS for minimalists looking for simplicity.
3) Finally, they should release a mobile OS for geeks looking for complexity but just a revamped look (other than doing stuff like making buttons finger-friendly, there really is no way to make something simple complex, and something complex simple).
What do we know from this vid?
That it's something I will never buy ?
What do we know from this Vid ?
We know that it is a promotional video from M$. And that the finished product will more than likely be much different from this when it hits the street in 4Q.
And we know that looking at this video tells us nothing about how it will act on our phones or the phones we are about to buy.
Didn't we go through all this speculation when WM 6 was previewed ? And WM 6.1 and 6.5 and now we have to go through another 8 months of speculation over WP 7 ?
Why can't they just do an Apple ? Announce it 9:00 am Tues, and have the Upgrade online at 9:01
poetryrocksalot said:
The Microsoft Phone 7 Series ... What do we know from this vid?
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Oh, that's simple.
1. Taller phones - what a selling point! "Ours are narrower" -- "or Taller " -- either way, they're "what you want more of"
2. Nothing here that is not currently done on Android phones with their amazing array of widgets and real time integration of information.
3. Nothing that Motoblur doesn't already offer on its CLIQ Android phone.
Unless you mean by What do we know from this vid? that MS has hired some better ad-makers than before.
This must be what you're getting at, right... vs the revolutionary new operating system -- available at end of year -- by that time who knows what iPhone 4.0 series has, nor where Android is in those # of months.
Seems to me one of the last selling points for WM -- and a point I keep arguing against as being a conditioned mirage, and no longer a reality -- is its easy integration with business enterprise systems, thus making it a better choice for IT departments outfitting a sales force with mobile satellite offices.
Yet all I see is consumer coolness "I am off to the gym now" --- wow, even twitter users know that people use twitter for more relevant things now than the original "what are you doing right now".
They will not fall on their faces, they have too much desktop market share to do that, and there's a significant amount of brand loyalty that comes with that, as well as customer ignorance (as in "i don't understand about a lot of this new stuff, but at least if my desktop is Windows, and my phone is windows, i know everything will work") ... But is that a high enough measure of success to beat Android? --- "to not fall on their faces"?
quicksite said:
Oh, that's simple.
1. Taller phones - what a selling point! "Ours are narrower" -- "or Taller " -- either way, they're "what you want more of"
2. Nothing here that is not currently done on Android phones with their amazing array of widgets and real time integration of information.
3. Nothing that Motoblur doesn't already offer on its CLIQ Android phone.
Unless you mean by What do we know from this vid? that MS has hired some better ad-makers than before.
This must be what you're getting at, right... vs the revolutionary new operating system -- available at end of year -- by that time who knows what iPhone 4.0 series has, nor where Android is in those # of months.
Seems to me one of the last selling points for WM -- and a point I keep arguing against as being a conditioned mirage, and no longer a reality -- is its easy integration with business enterprise systems, thus making it a better choice for IT departments outfitting a sales force with mobile satellite offices.
Yet all I see is consumer coolness "I am off to the gym now" --- wow, even twitter users know that people use twitter for more relevant things now than the original "what are you doing right now".
They will not fall on their faces, they have too much desktop market share to do that, and there's a significant amount of brand loyalty that comes with that, as well as customer ignorance (as in "i don't understand about a lot of this new stuff, but at least if my desktop is Windows, and my phone is windows, i know everything will work") ... But is that a high enough measure of success to beat Android? --- "to not fall on their faces"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) You mean longer screens due to the wVGA minimum requirement?
love it. windows mobile 7
Hi,
I have been increasingly concerned over future development (if any) of Windows Mobile. Having bought my TG01 only in February with the joy of believing that windows mobile would expand to windows mobile 7, I am now very disappointed to discover that this won't happen. Here are some article snippets I have seen in the news highlights:
"TG01 won't get windows mobile 7 upgrade"
Original Source: Can't seem to find it again on google, but have seen it on google within last few days.
and
"Adobe kills Flash Player 10.1 for Windows Mobile 6.5, smitten with Windows Phone 7 Series"
"If you’re not feeling a bit sorry for the aging Windows Mobile platform, you should be. With Windows Phone 7 completely overshadowing Windows Mobile 6.5 and Adobe confirming the death of Flash 10.1 for WinMo, the stylus-happy smartphone operating system of yester-year is being kicked to the curb left and right."
Original Source:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/02/2...-6-5-smitten-with-windows-phone-7-series.html
Just wondered what other WM users think? Personally, I'm tempted to sell my TG01 fast before it's too late, but can't help but wonder if I'm making the right decision, and wouldn't know what to replace it with.
I keep reading negative headlines for windows mobile, and I think it won't be long before most phone manufacturers choose Android as their OS, therefore making windows mobile redundant. I suppose windows mobile has been around for some time now, so perhaps I shouldnt have bought a phone with a OS that is heading for 'death'.
Wrong section for this thread... But...
Many WinMo devices in the past never received official updates... My phone is from 2008 and didn't even receive a 6.5 update...
If you ask me Microsoft is going in the wrong direction. . They abandoning everything that made the platform great to focus on interface and dumb down the OS (I hate how they are iPhoning the system). In a nutshell it's the PocketPC deevolved from a tiny computer into a mere feature phone... They have already lost a great deal of 3rd party developer (professional and amateurs... most freeware devs and hackers got off the wagon)... The lack of quality freeware and OSS content is what will utterly drive me and many others to Android.
Samsung has released Bada... HTC doesn't seem pleased with the UI modifications constraints and has an ever increasing number of Android devices... Regardless of my opinion about them they are the current two biggest WinMo phones producers. If these two companies drop the platform it's as good as dead.
The signs of death are way older than this (just look at the state of many OSS projects and emulation... also the smaller number of commercial apps and quality games... even some bogus apps iPhone clones that users currently request here). Adobe is just throwing a tantrum (but considering Microsoft is pushing Sirlverlight, Apple is developing Gianduia and the eminence of HTML5... I don't know if they can afford the price) very much like Mozilla did when they cancelled Fennec for WinMo.
install mobile shell 3.5 much better then any microsoft update lol
We even lost support for Skype ! Whate a shame. Windows Mobile is really coming to its end :/
I recently bought a HTC HD2 and sold it because I realised there is no future in Windows Mobile..
It might be the end of Windows Mobile.
But if our great XDA hackers manage to compile a fully functional Linux kernel with required drivers over time, I assure you the use of your device won't be lost. It's still one of the best hardware devices out there at the moment if you ask me.
With that, Windows Mobile will still be what it was. I'd not even WANT Windows 7 if it is heading the way it's going now..
You people need to get the facts right.
Firmware updates DO NOT COME FROM MICROSOFT.
They are custom built by each manufacturer.
It is HTC, SE, etc... that do NOT update their phones. They make money by selling hardware, so "no new features" on old hardware is an industry standard.
It is TRUE that windows mobile 7 will include an update feature similar to that of android where you can get OS updates without having to resort to flashing the whole firmware.
What isn't true is that microsoft will give you windows mobile 8 for free and so on...
Google is giving you "free" updates because android is a platform for google to sell it's services... gmail, calendar... etc.
TRUE STORY:
1. Make something easy to use and people will come running, and give up their privacy and data on the way.
2. People don't actually USE windows mobile. They just push the buttons. Windows mobile is a platform too, a business platform. You need a business built around MS technologies to take advantage of it's true value.
They told us, WM 6.5 will be continued for professional users. But I think, if this really happens, new software will be rare: Skype is off the hook. Many other may/will follow: They want big business with many customers.
I plan my switch to Android. HTC Desire is at the top of the wish list !! I hope there will be as much quality software as there is for windows mobile here at XDA devs! I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.
Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.
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In my opinion in the near future many WM-programmers will switch to Android-programming. As we can see here in this community this switch has already started! That's a nice developement. I tested the HTC Legend last week and it was nice! You can even use the phone with minimal dependence on Google (apart from Android updates of course)!
Certainly the old Skype will work. But if Skype changes some fundamental things, you have to switch to programs with skype support like Fring. When WM is really dead, even the support for those apps would die, too.
But surely, eventually, someone could hack the TG01 to make it compatible with windows mobile 7 unless TG01 isn't hardware equipped to be able to run it? Perhaps there could be a slim chance? After all, the problem doesn't lie in the phone, but in the inupgradeable OS.
Guys your right!
its just dawned on me: What is the future of ' Microsoft Windows Mobile'
As Windows Phone 7, sounds rubbish and Wm is losing support from:
Skype IM
Adobe Flash 10.1
I fear the days are numbered before Android takes it thrown
I'm disappointed as well.
I'm heavily relying on Outlook to sync up two pocket pc phones (TP2s), as well as SpbFinance.
I wonder what's going to happen to Outlook, once Windows doesn't cater to adults, but only social networking teens and tweens? I imagine that other OSes, that put in some effort to use Outlook & Exchange, will eventually drop that too.
I have a second PC at home with OpenSUSE 11 on it, more as a curiosity than anything else. Maybe it's time to install GCC, the Eclipse IDE, and the Android SDK on it and start all over again. I'll probably start hanging out in the Android Development Forum.
As an aside, all the above are available totally gratis. Download them, install and run them, all under the GNU licenses.
In the early days Microsoft gave away Embedded Tools 3 (C++ and VB) and the later improved Embedded C++ 4.0, with the sole purpose of getting the platform moving. That vision seems to have gone, but it's probably too late now anyway.
This forum was an excellent lesson for Microsoft to follow the Google/Android model instead of Apple/iPhone.
Unfortunately for us, MS decided to follow the Apple/iPhone model, at least for their phone line of business..
I do believe though that the driving force of XDA is such that it could force MS into creating a WM/PocketPC series of devices based on WM6.5.x following the Google/Android model.
MS fears that if they do that, they will cannibalize WP7 sales, as everybody would love it:
- OEMs would not have to dump their development investments
- DEVELOPERS would have the choice to continue to use their libraries or use Silverlight,
- END USERS would continue to use their purchased software,
- even MS itself would love strong demand for devices like HD2 which would in turn bring strong license revenues.
Boiling everything down into one question to MS:
- Since, all that most people need is a phone with a notification system and apps marketplace, why couldn't you put this into any WM phone? Cheap, effective, and guaranteed to increase OS sales.
Answer: Well we did this... (Marketplace, Office 2010 etc.)
- Too late, you first killed the product and now you are trying to save it!
IT IS THE ERA THAT HAVE CHANGED, NOT THE TECHNOLOGY. I believe that WP7 would simply be the Windows Vista... WP7.1 (with WM6.5 app legacy support and multitasking) will be the Windows 7 of MS mobile phones.
In any case, if I was MS, I would have never introduced WP7 in the first place until I had it ready as my market expects it to be... How could they fall into the Osborne Effect? Did they expect that this wouldn't happen with MS? Well it did...
Dimitris
I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
The only thing MS didn't understand for years is that one very elementary thing is missing for Windows Mobile.
A FREE development platform with a STYLEGUIDE and a nice set of STANDARD GUI Controls which look good, are finger friendly and easy to use. Go to the iPhone Development Homepage and you will see what I mean.
Even with WM6.5.x they didn't learn this. They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
This is all good and was the right way. But why is there no documentation on how to implement titanium plugins? Why is there no documentation and API on how to use the new controls? Why don't old programs use the new skinnable look of the controls? Why is there no API for gestures in .NET CF? ...
The support for programmers is absolutely worse (you can say not existent) for WM6.5.x so nobody wants to develop for it anymore!
Best regards,
Markus
TeddY89h said:
I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
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Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
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Sure many applications are disappointing, but there are JUST SO MANY that you need not worry about the ones that are garbage.
Its the same with EVERY platform.
And being in the US #2 market share position while WM sits within the #4 "other" position, you can be assured that Android already has FAR FAR FAR more software developers than WM will *EVER* see again.
corwin42 said:
I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
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Click to collapse
that's HTC's GUI covering the ugly, ugly, WM. M$ has no merit in this!
WP7 is going to be born dead. too little, too late!! what could WP7 bring new now? hubs? they took the wrong turn following\copying the iPhone model.
i am on my way to android!
I think he's refering to WM itself. Manilla is everything but lite! In all latest devices HTC has been draining phone resources left and right for the sake of their trademark GUI.
The notion most users have of Android is also basically the HTC GUI (the Android basic GUI is also not that great).
I also think WM is on the brink of death but the fact is Android is not the answer. AFAIK the apps developed don't have capped access to the machine resources so we can forget about apps that really require everything the machine can give (such a good universal media player).
I writing an app now for Windows Mobile and I'm writing it for Windows Mobile as its the only platform that it can be written on as it makes use of a number of technologies and features that the other phones lack (I will admit Android is closest and hence a prime interest of mine for future projects). Windows Phone is a step backward technologically for sure, but the success of the iPhone proves that technology has little to do with market success.
I don't think the problem is technology, I think the problem is managing people's expectations and battery life. For example everyone wants GPS, Wifi and cellular data etc with apps running in the background using them all, but that is a battery killer and hence a phone killer. Apple's solution was to limit via the OS what could be running at any one time and hence while Microsoft might claim it was crappy apps that were causing problems (and there is some truth to that, but crappy coders are pretty much a universal problem on any platform and again if I limit what an application platform can do I also limit the damage crappy coders can do), the real problem was battery life and I think the Android is going to find the same problem. So in reality limiting the OS is really about limiting users and helping to manage their expectations and if that can be done, then you can be successful like Apple and its iPhone who lowered user expectations technically and then achieved in filling those lowered expectations. They are continuing this success by raising technical expectations as technology allows them. For example video conferencing in their next iPhone as innovation, your kidding even my old HTC Universal had a forward facing camera for video conferencing years ago but network speeds tended to leave the user disappointed, but now cellular speeds might be up to snuff and Apple will be successful with this (battery life should be interesting of course).
So I don't think technology is the key in this market, I think its finding the balance between what is technically possible and user expectations, and so you might have to drop the technical level of the product down and then raise it as technology makes it possible which sounds exactly like what Microsoft is doing with the Windows Phone.
Marketing and design was the key to Apple's success.
For years Apple held their ground and finally had a beak with the iPod. It was small, had a huge memory and was good looking. All of a sudden Apple was cool again. Over the years (and hardware revisions) the iPod became a trend, an icon and the Apple brand was automatically associated with the concept of quality by the average Joe. At this point they barely needed to market their products or be innovative anymore they just release stuff that already exists in a prettier package but otherwise inferior (iPad anyone?)
Apple gained the smartphone marked based on the cool factor, it's icon status and good looks. The iPhone had a cool looking hardware and an appealing and easy to use OS. It's however an overpriced piece of hardware with an inferior OS but what can we do if people get stupid when they see shiny objects? The flock of users, hardware standardization and centralized online market attracted developers and now the iPhone has a huge amount of programs available (sure most suck but they also have some handy stuff and lots if games).
The Windows Mobile seems to have emerged originally as an OS for a tiny computer... Not a phone on steroids. Microsoft would always have a market just as long as they released a solid platform and offered what the others didn't... Microsoft hasn't been cool for a long time (it's not a crowd pleaser). It was easier to drown the opponent products when you could just through in pile of cash to regain terrain but this won't work anymore (Apple's rolling in it). If MS is going to release just another iPhone they their new OS is dead on the water.
No doubt this year and the one coming have been and will be a giant evolution in smart phones and their operating systems that are embedded in them, but the question is: Jellybean 4.2 or Windows Phone 8 Metro? Why do you like it or not like it as well. Thanks its just a bit of a survey.
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I would suggest Windows phone 8. As everyone knows Android attracts virus and malware. It is too laggy and stuff.
Windows phone OS is something new and awesome in design. It is not as laggy as Android. Not many security issues.
If you need to buy a Windows phone 8, Nokia Lumia 920 is my choice. No Android!
http://winappleworld.com/top-windows-phone-8-features-you-should-know/ - Have a look
Windows Phone 8.
I too am eyeing it. But cant decide 8S or 820.
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.
Android - without question. I have zero interest in using anything that comes from Microsoft. Pretty much their whole product portfolio is driven by: Oh ****, someone made something that's successful and we are missing the bandwagon? Quick, let's throw a massive amount of money at building a knock-off that looks like the original thing but clearly shows that we haven't understood what put the magic into it.
onyxbits said:
Android - without question. I have zero interest in using anything that comes from Microsoft. Pretty much their whole product portfolio is driven by: Oh ****, someone made something that's successful and we are missing the bandwagon? Quick, let's throw a massive amount of money at building a knock-off that looks like the original thing but clearly shows that we haven't understood what put the magic into it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally wrong. In what way does a WP8 look like Android? In fact, Android looks like Apple's ugly twin.
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.
Windows 8 something new.
I haven't tried Windows 8 phone nor have I tried a Windows 7 phone. Android seems good to me this far though, only reason I would go for a Windows 8 phone is just to try something new, that's about it...I know pretty dumb reason . I just like trying different things, though I would obviously do some research on it first; though Windows 8 is suppose to be stable, but not sure how big there App store is, I heard its pretty small at the moment.
It seems to me for Windows 8 big future, after all it is a universal platform for PC
It seems to me for Windows 8 big future, after all it is a universal platform for PC and phones
winappleworld said:
As everyone knows Android attracts virus and malware. It is too laggy and stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the most part that is categorically untrue, viruses are practically non-existent due to the fact that Android is Linux based. It has non-infectious malware yes but only if you have no common sense and can't use a ratings system in a very basic way. That is a slight drawback of an almost completely open app market where a corporation cannot generally control things by banning stuff whenever it likes.
As for laggy, again simply not true. There just happens to be more of a range of devices from low end to very fast high end.
makeyourself said:
For the most part that is categorically untrue, viruses are practically non-existent due to the fact that Android is Linux based. It has non-infectious malware yes but only if you have no common sense and can't use a ratings system in a very basic way. That is a slight drawback of an almost completely open app market where a corporation cannot generally control things by banning stuff whenever it likes.
As for laggy, again simply not true. There just happens to be more of a range of devices from low end to very fast high end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Also I'd say that for many Android phones (not all) you can find developers willing to personalize and modify your stock Rom.
This is not possible in a closed OS: you have to accept it like it is.
I have a Huawei Shine with the Mod Rom of the user bgcngm and I don't find it laggy.
PROGUERAM said:
Totally wrong. In what way does a WP8 look like Android? In fact, Android looks like Apple's ugly twin.
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wrote that Microsoft's innovation more or less entirely consists of copying competitors (poorly), not that W8 is a an Android knock-off.
Time for a bigger picture: about 5 years ago, Apple came up with the IPhone. Up until then, most mobile phones had a number keyboard, a tiny screen and allowed you to customize them with wallpapers and ringtones (at a ridiculous cost). Apple changed that. Suddenly, you had a large touchscreen, the ability to run apps and with that also the ability to use your phone for more than making the carriers money.
Microsofts reaction to that (google "blamer laughs at iphone"): $500 for a phone? Lol! The iphone became a success. Microsofts reaction to that: shock and awe. W7 had to be released in a hurry. If you were stupid enough to buy a W7 phone... well... sucks. You have no upgrade plan.
Speaking of W7. Its UI is based on the Zune. Zune what was that again? Oh right, Microsofts shock and awe reaction to Apple's Ipod. Hello WMA, hello DRM, I always wanted a file format that allows me to do less.
Let's go back a few more years. Back then, around 1993, Bill Gates was asked about the internet and in his opinion, it was merely a hype, windows fileshares were the future. Two years later, win95 shipped without a browser and without installing TCP/IP. Netscape became the darling of the new economy and Microsoft became pretty jealous. The browserwars started and for years to come, we had to deal with the IE (aka Infection Engine).
Let's go back a few more years even. Microsoft in it's first years. Bill Gates vision of an Operation System literally looked like this:
C:\>
Apple came along and their vision actually looked like something (namely: a desktop). Microsofts reaction to that... well ... the win 3.x product line, aka the "colorful clownsuit for DOS". Something that never knew if it wanted to be an operating system or a GUI on top of an operating system. Hence it was both and neither at the same time, ridiculous to use and crashed whenever it had the chance to.
So, what else do we have? Oh yes, Surface, the "tablet" that does not really know if it wants to be a tablet or an ultrabook and hence tries to be both for the sole reason of microsoft again being in shock and awe and afraid of a competitor establishing an industry standard for Office on the tablet market, that is not MS office.
To summarize my point: None of Microsoft's major products is an innovation of their own. It's all "me too", usually inferior and generally only successful because MS has the leverage to swamp out their competition.
---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------
Dnpech said:
It seems to me for Windows 8 big future, after all it is a universal platform for PC and phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So ... you are interested in the universal tow coupling for caravans, truck trailers and railway carriage? Win8 is a complete and utter failure as it makes you constantly switch between a UI optimized for touchscreens and a UI that is optimized for mouse/keyboard. Yes, it's universal, but that doesn't make it usable.
onyxbits said:
I never wrote that Microsoft's innovation more or less entirely consists of copying competitors (poorly), not that W8 is a an Android knock-off.
Time for a bigger picture: about 5 years ago, Apple came up with the IPhone. Up until then, most mobile phones had a number keyboard, a tiny screen and allowed you to customize them with wallpapers and ringtones (at a ridiculous cost). Apple changed that. Suddenly, you had a large touchscreen, the ability to run apps and with that also the ability to use your phone for more than making the carriers money.
Microsofts reaction to that (google "blamer laughs at iphone"): $500 for a phone? Lol! The iphone became a success. Microsofts reaction to that: shock and awe. W7 had to be released in a hurry. If you were stupid enough to buy a W7 phone... well... sucks. You have no upgrade plan.
Speaking of W7. Its UI is based on the Zune. Zune what was that again? Oh right, Microsofts shock and awe reaction to Apple's Ipod. Hello WMA, hello DRM, I always wanted a file format that allows me to do less.
Let's go back a few more years. Back then, around 1993, Bill Gates was asked about the internet and in his opinion, it was merely a hype, windows fileshares were the future. Two years later, win95 shipped without a browser and without installing TCP/IP. Netscape became the darling of the new economy and Microsoft became pretty jealous. The browserwars started and for years to come, we had to deal with the IE (aka Infection Engine).
Let's go back a few more years even. Microsoft in it's first years. Bill Gates vision of an Operation System literally looked like this:
C:\>
Apple came along and their vision actually looked like something (namely: a desktop). Microsofts reaction to that... well ... the win 3.x product, aka the "colorful clownsuit for DOS". Something that never knew if it wanted to be an operating system or a GUI on top of an operating system. Hence it was both and neither at the same time, ridiculous to use and crashed whenever it had the chance to.
So, what else do we have? Oh yes, Surface, the "tablet" that does not really know if it wants to be a tablet or an ultrabook and hence tries to be both for the sole reason of microsoft again being in shock and awe and afraid of a competitor establishing an industry standard for Office on the tablet market, that is not MS office.
To summarize my point: None of Microsoft's major products is an innovation of their own. It's all "me too", usually inferior and generally only successful because MS has the leverage to swamp out their competition.
---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------
So ... you are interested in the universal tow coupling for caravans, truck trailers and railway carriage? Win8 is a complete and utter failure as it makes you constantly switch between a UI optimized for touchscreens and a UI that is optimized for mouse/keyboard. Yes, it's universal, but that doesn't make it usable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whoa! Never thought of that. I have to agree. If u don't mind, can u tell me what u think of Android? I would love to hear.
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.
Windows phone is a very nice os, which doesn't get a boring as ios quite so quickly. The whole fluidity of the os is a joy to use, but it lacks most of my favourite apps. Even Android lacks a few of the greatest ios apps but not many. Been running a note 2 for a few weeks now. Absolutely no lag anywhere on Android. So much customisation, apps have improved so much now almost on par with ios. The other thing with windows phone, im not sure I like the big word styling everywhere. If you like the styling, don't care much about apps and not into customisation and freedom to adjust everything on your device. Go for windows phone. With Android you have a better choice of apps. Can change the styling to suit. Can be as fluid and lag free especially with jelly bean and the latest devices.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
Android
Sent from my One X using xda app-developers app
Hold on a minute. This is all wrong. WM devices have been around way before iPhones existed. In fact, this website blew up because of people wanting to mod their WM phones. I was on XDA modding my WM5 and WM6 phones as early as 2005, if I recall correctly. The last one I had, HTC Titan II, had a decent touchscreen and lots of functionality, ran apps, networking capability, etc. Back then, you had Symbian, Blackberry, or Windows Mobile. The year after was right around the time when touchscreen keyboards were starting to become popular for smartphones - maybe end of 2006. I still had my friends laughing at me for having a giant phone. The iPhone came out the following year, and soon enough everyone had a giant phone. Although Apple destroyed the market with style and functionality, the iPhone was *not* the first smartphone. Not even close. They just, as usual, set a precedent for an extremely well-designed device. There were loads of well-functioning and popular touchscreen smartphones prior to the iPhone, with WiFi, GPS, and a touchscreen.
Fast forward 7 years and I still have an HTC phone, but with Android. HTC have been making great devices since before the iPhone. I'm sure Windows Mobile would not be an upgrade for me at this point. However, for my productivity in 2006, it was outstanding and absolutely critical. It was not pretty, it was functional - and it definitely paved some of the way for IOS and Android. I wish people would stop giving Apple more credit than they deserve. I'm not disputing your Microsoft facts - MS is truly ridiculous and fail miserably at designing products for consumers. But there were plenty of good smartphones before the iPhone, which is why this site exists in the first place.
Android, to be sure.
onyxbits said:
I never wrote that Microsoft's innovation more or less entirely consists of copying competitors (poorly), not that W8 is a an Android knock-off.
Time for a bigger picture: about 5 years ago, Apple came up with the IPhone. Up until then, most mobile phones had a number keyboard, a tiny screen and allowed you to customize them with wallpapers and ringtones (at a ridiculous cost). Apple changed that. Suddenly, you had a large touchscreen, the ability to run apps and with that also the ability to use your phone for more than making the carriers money.
Microsofts reaction to that (google "blamer laughs at iphone"): $500 for a phone? Lol! The iphone became a success. Microsofts reaction to that: shock and awe. W7 had to be released in a hurry. If you were stupid enough to buy a W7 phone... well... sucks. You have no upgrade plan.
Speaking of W7. Its UI is based on the Zune. Zune what was that again? Oh right, Microsofts shock and awe reaction to Apple's Ipod. Hello WMA, hello DRM, I always wanted a file format that allows me to do less.
Let's go back a few more years. Back then, around 1993, Bill Gates was asked about the internet and in his opinion, it was merely a hype, windows fileshares were the future. Two years later, win95 shipped without a browser and without installing TCP/IP. Netscape became the darling of the new economy and Microsoft became pretty jealous. The browserwars started and for years to come, we had to deal with the IE (aka Infection Engine).
Let's go back a few more years even. Microsoft in it's first years. Bill Gates vision of an Operation System literally looked like this:
C:\>
Apple came along and their vision actually looked like something (namely: a desktop). Microsofts reaction to that... well ... the win 3.x product, aka the "colorful clownsuit for DOS". Something that never knew if it wanted to be an operating system or a GUI on top of an operating system. Hence it was both and neither at the same time, ridiculous to use and crashed whenever it had the chance to.
So, what else do we have? Oh yes, Surface, the "tablet" that does not really know if it wants to be a tablet or an ultrabook and hence tries to be both for the sole reason of microsoft again being in shock and awe and afraid of a competitor establishing an industry standard for Office on the tablet market, that is not MS office.
To summarize my point: None of Microsoft's major products is an innovation of their own. It's all "me too", usually inferior and generally only successful because MS has the leverage to swamp out their competition.
---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------
So ... you are interested in the universal tow coupling for caravans, truck trailers and railway carriage? Win8 is a complete and utter failure as it makes you constantly switch between a UI optimized for touchscreens and a UI that is optimized for mouse/keyboard. Yes, it's universal, but that doesn't make it usable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP or Android
Windows Phone 7 sucks just because of 2 elementary features: Bluetooth File Transfer and Mass Storage, I think it's a marketing gimmick, everybody is just interested what new will next OS version bring, then BOOM Windows Phone 8, resizable tiles, bluetooth transfer, mass storage, WOW do you heard that new lumia has BLUETOOTH TRANSFER? NO WAY, I MUST BUY IT, that's just what I was missing in my old lumia.
One thing I like in WP is simplicity and quality. WP is always the same, Android is modified by phone manufacturers and I can find bugs even in official firmware - it does not occur in Windows Phone.
But in the end, I choose Android - I like the fact that there is so much to rummage :laugh:
Both are boring maybe salfish or bb10..., oh ! wait firefox os is in the cards too
Sent from a hybrid phablet !
onyxbits said:
I never wrote that Microsoft's innovation more or less entirely consists of copying competitors (poorly), not that W8 is a an Android knock-off.
Time for a bigger picture: about 5 years ago, Apple came up with the IPhone. Up until then, most mobile phones had a number keyboard, a tiny screen and allowed you to customize them with wallpapers and ringtones (at a ridiculous cost). Apple changed that. Suddenly, you had a large touchscreen, the ability to run apps and with that also the ability to use your phone for more than making the carriers money.
Microsofts reaction to that (google "blamer laughs at iphone"): $500 for a phone? Lol! The iphone became a success. Microsofts reaction to that: shock and awe. W7 had to be released in a hurry. If you were stupid enough to buy a W7 phone... well... sucks. You have no upgrade plan.
Speaking of W7. Its UI is based on the Zune. Zune what was that again? Oh right, Microsofts shock and awe reaction to Apple's Ipod. Hello WMA, hello DRM, I always wanted a file format that allows me to do less.
Let's go back a few more years. Back then, around 1993, Bill Gates was asked about the internet and in his opinion, it was merely a hype, windows fileshares were the future. Two years later, win95 shipped without a browser and without installing TCP/IP. Netscape became the darling of the new economy and Microsoft became pretty jealous. The browserwars started and for years to come, we had to deal with the IE (aka Infection Engine).
Let's go back a few more years even. Microsoft in it's first years. Bill Gates vision of an Operation System literally looked like this:
C:\>
Apple came along and their vision actually looked like something (namely: a desktop). Microsofts reaction to that... well ... the win 3.x product, aka the "colorful clownsuit for DOS". Something that never knew if it wanted to be an operating system or a GUI on top of an operating system. Hence it was both and neither at the same time, ridiculous to use and crashed whenever it had the chance to.
So, what else do we have? Oh yes, Surface, the "tablet" that does not really know if it wants to be a tablet or an ultrabook and hence tries to be both for the sole reason of microsoft again being in shock and awe and afraid of a competitor establishing an industry standard for Office on the tablet market, that is not MS office.
To summarize my point: None of Microsoft's major products is an innovation of their own. It's all "me too", usually inferior and generally only successful because MS has the leverage to swamp out their competition.
---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------
So ... you are interested in the universal tow coupling for caravans, truck trailers and railway carriage? Win8 is a complete and utter failure as it makes you constantly switch between a UI optimized for touchscreens and a UI that is optimized for mouse/keyboard. Yes, it's universal, but that doesn't make it usable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, but that is all wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0
Video incredibly relevant, apple has never been a source of innovation.
PROGUERAM said:
Whoa! Never thought of that. I have to agree. If u don't mind, can u tell me what u think of Android? I would love to hear.
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have quite mixed feelings about Android. It is a system created by an advertising company and as such it has huge build-in privacy concerns. You can barely use the platform without tying yourself into the Google ecosystem (just try getting apps without having a Google account) and when you do, you can no longer stay anonymous. Use android to its fullest and you will give them your Name, credit card number, birthday, location, contacts, phonenumber and communication. In short: the wet dreams of an advertiser come through -> Total customer awareness and their privacy policy states pretty much that they are free to use that information in any way they like to.
To make matters worse, that data is also of interest to governments worldwide and since 9/11 we see constant attempts of legislators to push for laws to allow them to spy on their citizens (you may want to google "STASI" to get an idea of why it is a BAD idea to give governments the power to spy on their citizens).
Another thing, I thoroughly dislike on Android is the permission system. It's simply broken by design. Most users don't understand what most permissions encompass and you can't selectively deny them.
Then there is the problem that Google doesn't seem to have the balls to step up to carriers and make Android rooted by default. Ideally, you should own what you pay for, practically, you need root to install things like firewalls which are common sense on the PC, but for some reason not on a phone where the whole ecosystem pretty much demands it.
Last but not least, I have pretty much come to hate the screen on most devices. I never liked 16:9, I prefer 4:3 and as a developer, supporting a gazillion of different resolutions is a nightmare. I just published Pocket Bandit and getting the artwork to scale right was hell.
Android over Windows because Google Play has tons more apps and games than Windows 8 Appstore does, and Android has better sync options and the whole OS is built on your Google account. Like really... who wants to use Hotmail or Bing.
Originally Posted by PROGUERAM<br />
Whoa! Never thought of that. I have to agree. If u don't mind, can u tell me what u think of Android? I would love to hear. <br />
<br />
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
<br />
<br />
I have quite mixed feelings about Android. It is a system created by an advertising company and as such it has huge build-in privacy concerns. You can barely use the platform without tying yourself into the Google ecosystem (just try getting apps without having a Google account) and when you do, you can no longer stay anonymous. Use android to its fullest and you will give them your Name, credit card number, birthday, location, contacts, phonenumber and communication. In short: the wet dreams of an advertiser come through -> Total customer awareness and their privacy policy states pretty much that they are free to use that information in any way they like to.<br />
To make matters worse, that data is also of interest to governments worldwide and since 9/11 we see constant attempts of legislators to push for laws to allow them to spy on their citizens (you may want to google "STASI" to get an idea of why it is a BAD idea to give governments the power to spy on their citizens).<br />
<br />
Another thing, I thoroughly dislike on Android is the permission system. It's simply broken by design. Most users don't understand what most permissions encompass and you can't selectively deny them.<br />
<br />
Then there is the problem that Google doesn't seem to have the balls to step up to carriers and make Android rooted by default. Ideally, you should own what you pay for, practically, you need root to install things like firewalls which are common sense on the PC, but for some reason not on a phone where the whole ecosystem pretty much demands it.<br />
<br />
Last but not least, I have pretty much come to hate the screen on most devices. I never liked 16:9, I prefer 4:3 and as a developer, supporting a gazillion of different resolutions is a nightmare. I just published Pocket Bandit and getting the artwork to scale right was hell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My god! You are an encyclopedia man...i would love to interact with u more. The facts you spoke are just mind blowing. It is rare that on a public forum, someone baffles u with knowledge of mammoth proportions. Is there a way we can keep in touch on Twitter? Or FB?
And that "It is a system created by an advertising company" comment just cracked me up. I work FOR an advertising firm and believe me it's just funny.
Just one question though, u said "Android does this...Android does that.." but don't ALL operating systems ask for your credit card information to buy apps? Isn't that a norm? How different is purchasing something online than in a real store? Why blame Android? Even WP does that and so does Apple..
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.