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Hi,
I am about to purchase an AT&T Tilt and I would really like to learn how to modify this thing. I've been surfing the forums and there all these these different types of ROMs and all of that. I have a basic understanding but I just had a few questions:
1) Anyone have a generally recommended ROM? Dutty's looks like to be a popular one so far.
2) What does "radio-only" and radio in general mean in the context of the Tilt?
3) Can I Sync this thing with a Mac?
Thanks a ton for the help!
Noob myself but here is your answeres i am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong!
1. There is too many to choose from, currently i am sticking to official roms
2. Radio roms are like radio drivers and you should use the one recommended for the rom you are going to choose.
3. Of course (software required)
Dutty version 6
Me a WM noob too!
Be sure to keep a backup of your official ROM in case you want to go back to it. Use Sprite Backup that's available on the HTC CD.
There are far too many ROMs floating around. Schaps is unable to provide much support, I gather. I'm still learning myself about the others.
I have used Dutty's Full version 6, it is extremely stable and lightning fast. v 7 has too many issues, and I had to go back to v6 after installing v7 on my TyTn II, but I'm sure Dutty the Master will turn v7 into as fine a ROM as v76 in due time. Till then, I would stick to v6.
The radio essentially refers to the phone hardware drivers on the unit that handles all calling, including video and wireless, but not the software diallers.
WMNovice said:
Me a WM noob too!
Be sure to keep a backup of your official ROM in case you want to go back to it. Use Sprite Backup that's available on the HTC CD.
There are far too many ROMs floating around. Schaps is unable to provide much support, I gather. I'm still learning myself about the others.
I have used Dutty's Full version 6, it is extremely stable and lightning fast. v 7 has too many issues, and I had to go back to v6 after installing v7 on my TyTn II, but I'm sure Dutty the Master will turn v7 into as fine a ROM as v76 in due time. Till then, I would stick to v6.
The radio essentially refers to the phone hardware drivers on the unit that handles all calling, including video and wireless, but not the software diallers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Schaps might not be able to provide too much support - but his roms are very good. I've been using them since his first Hermes Rom. Besides, his threads are usually very active and others provide the support when he isn't able to (as with all roms).
The radio is basically the part that allows your phone to talk to the cellular network. A "radio only" rom includes only the radio upgrade and does not include any operating system. This is good if you want to upgrade the radio without having to completely re-install applications, settings etc on the phone. BUT if anything fails when flashing a radio it is easy to brick your phone. For this reason you should install hardSPL (in my signature) which will allow you to recover your phone if anything else goes wrong.
Wow thanks! Someone mentioned software dialers. What is that exactly? I'm assuming its just a front-end for dialing numbers on the phone like how they look and stuff. Am I correct?
A few days ago I posted something on L26 V5 Diamond thread. It was either a very broad subject or a very naive one that nobody cared to write something in reply. Maybe I shouldn't have posted there.
Now I bring the subject here in a separate thread hoping that we would all share our views and experiences with regard to Original/Official WM6.1 ROMs vs the cooked ones. I already apologize if the subject doesn't deserve a thread and leave it to mods to decide whether the thread should remain or be closed.
Here's what I'd posted there:
So far as bugs are concerned, who's the culprit : build 19588.1.1.4 ? or L26_K_D_V5 ??
It seems an error is repeating so often & so regularly that it's becoming a systematic error. What am I talking about?
Well, we usually get so much focused on L26_XXX ROM or Dutty's_XXX ROM ...etc. that we totoally forget about the "Original/Official" ROMs these cooked ones are based on.
Somewhere in the devine XDA text , God once said :
Flash an "original/official" ROM / HR / flash the XXX cooked ROM / HR
The above is now a universally accepted verdict among us frequent ROM flashers. But how many of us do stay upon the "Original/Official" ROM - whether HTC or AT&T ...etc - for 10 minutes (or 10 seconds for that matter !!) ??
We flash the "Original/Official" ROM (whatever version it is - though , we generally tend to flash the Latest Original/Official one) only for the sake of the above said verdict and certainly not to see how that original ROM works on our devices. Understandably, this happens because we're in a hurry to flash the beautiful cooked ones.
What is my point?
How many of the rulings we pass (and the bugs we report) on L26_K_D_V5 have been tested (over a period of a week or so) upon the "Original/Offical" ROM the V5 is based upon (i.e. CE 5.2.19212 Build 19588.1.1.4) ?
Perhaps it's time that someone with an authoritative knowledge of ROMs takes the list of reported bugs/issues of V5, flashes the Build 19588.1.1.4 , rests upon it for a while , and sees if these are native issues of the "Original/Official" ROM or Leo's V5.
Does it sound too idiotic and naive? Maybe. But at least I can claim that I have not seen such thorough comparison between these two specific ROMs anywhere in the forum. Of course, the wise redbandana (God bless him) usually brings us news of (and introduces to us) new Original/Official Kaiser ROMs in separate threads. But what I mean is thorough comparison between these two specific Original/Official and Cooked ROMs.
Cheers
i see your knoweldge and believe that you are on to something, i don't remember what ROM i was on cause i have flashed almost all of them, but when i went to the official of the same build a lot of the same errors were being seen. most times as long as the chef knows of these problems in the official rom they try to cook the fixes into their version but it is not easy to see every bug in a rom by yourself.
tubaking182 said:
i see your knoweldge and believe that you are on to something, i don't remember what ROM i was on cause i have flashed almost all of them, but when i went to the official of the same build a lot of the same errors were being seen. most times as long as the chef knows of these problems in the official rom they try to cook the fixes into their version but it is not easy to see every bug in a rom by yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the fact is , up in the heaven , all mods/chefs/very_senior_members know all about these things. My point was to open up a window for us mortals down here to have a clearer idea about what we see in (and pass judgements on) cooked roms.
The undeniable truth is that each chef cooks his rom on a specific original version/build and a clearer knowledge of the original built in each case (and a comparison between the two) allows us mortals to have a better understanding of what the chef has actually done in his rom.
As a very minor and silly example, while in L29 V5 Diamond I am struggling to to see why the "disconnect" button in GPRS connectivity bubble is missing, it would be helpful to know whether this is the "default" option of the original built or is it Leo's - and if it is Leo's, what are the merits/faults of his choice.
You may ask why I don't do such thorough survey myself ? Well, to be honest, I would really die to have such extensive knowledge and expertise. But the fact is, some people are savvys and gurus and some are not. It takes me a lifetime to be as knowledgeable as Dutty or Leo or Alex ...etc. I just hope that in here each of us can bring just a little piece of his/her info to share with others on the subject of this comparison.
Well, I've been using HTC original ROMs for a long time, so here's my report:
Original HTC WM 6.0:
- Great radio (1.27.12.17), GPS fix fast, good battery life
- Skype works
- Cleartype works OK on landscape
- No missing G icon or disconnect button when you click the connection icon
- Feels fast enough (a lot of RAM free)
Original HTC WM 6.1 released on may
- Less than 60 MB RAM available on boot
- Bad radio (1.65.16.25), problems connecting to WiFi with WEP enabled, slow GPS fix
- Skype does not work
- Cleartype does not work correctly on landscape
- Does not feel faster, needs new SPL to avoid random freezes
- No missing icons / apps
Original HTC 3.02
- My favourite unless Nothrills comes up with something better
- Excelent radio (1.58.26.20), best GPS and WiFi
- Skype does not work
- Landscape mode works OK
- Camera can be easily patched or updated to 5.04
All of them come with Office and Onenote, Windows Live, and usual utilities
All of them can be tweaked with KaiserTweak or AdvancedConfig and you get a pretty much fast and estable ROM that just works.
No screen redraw problems, no blank screens, no missing buttons, no missing apps...
vcespon said:
Well, I've been using HTC original ROMs for a long time, so here's my report:
Original HTC WM 6.1 released on may
- Less than 60 MB RAM available on boot
- Bad radio (1.65.16.25), problems connecting to WiFi with WEP enabled, slow GPS fix
- Skype does not work
- Cleartype does not work correctly on landscape
- Does not feel faster, needs new SPL to avoid random freezes
- No missing icons / apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's amazing that while reading your report on Original HTC WM6.1 , I suddenly felt as if I was reading the threads of some of the new cooked kasier roms! Everything you said (and a lot not mentioned here) are exactly the same problems reported in those threads over and over again.
So next time when one reports in , for example, Dutty's new rom thread that : "Skype is not working" , or "the cleartype in landscape bug" he should know that these are exactly the same issues in the original 6.1 and has nothign to do with Dutty's rom.
I agree with you so much. Amazingly to Cook a rom is a few files added here, a few files deleted. Put in what you want, make a few tweaks to the registry and Whaaa Laaa.
AMazingly, WM6.1 has a lot of bugs. Probably not what Microsoft expected when they developed the software. The landscape issues I try to tell everyone over and over it has nothing to do with what the Cook did, its a WM6.1 problem.
I do not use skype but I am assuming the same thing. I think in this thread, we should add the most common problems that we have so we can start looking into them more deeply.
Obviously the cooks inherit the bugs of the ROMs they use as base.
HTC finally released an official WM 6.1 ROM for the Kaiser, with "improved graphics" but at a cost.
- Bad radio. 1.65 radios are not better than 1.27 or 1.58. Ask anyone about GPS fix or battery.
- They changed a display routine so it's faster, but they screwed cleartype on landscape mode, that was working on previous HTC ROMs
- A lot less memory available, and I do not see a big speed increase in return
- The ROM feels heavier than previous one, the screen switches in one move, but the total time to do the switch is longer than previous ROMs
- Skype does not work, it was working on WM 6.0
Some of these bugs have been corrected by cooks when adding files from other builds. HyperDragon III works OK on landscape, ROMs from L26 and Dutty work with Skype... But they introduce other bugs like the missing G icon, or disconnect button.
I hope they interchange their findings so we finally have a ROM where everything works. I don't care if it gets 1432 or 1512 points on some benchmark, if HSDPA does not work, or the device soft-resets while playing MP3, then I'm not going to use that.
Reading all of this makes me wanna downgrade to 6.0. Until we have a working Android, that is...
Just wanna share with you as I am using an official ROM for a long time now.
Original ROMs are the best as they have every thing working. Yes everything, sometimes a minor bugs are annoying like I was unable to send a vcard as sms using one of the super ROMs.
I think the only point is tweaking. If we tweak the original ROM they will perform as good as the cooked one.
As much as the chefs change in ROM as much as we get bugs. My opinion is chefs should concentrate on main issues and always release lite versions leaving options for users.
I have to admit that I have learnt a lot from cooked ROMs which helped me to tune the original ROM to my best.
msharaf said:
Just wanna share with you as I am using an official ROM for a long time now.
Original ROMs are the best as they have every thing working. Yes everything, sometimes a minor bugs are annoying like I was unable to send a vcard as sms using one of the super ROMs.
I think the only point is tweaking. If we tweak the original ROM they will perform as good as the cooked one.
As much as the chefs change in ROM as much as we get bugs. My opinion is chefs should concentrate on main issues and always release lite versions leaving options for users.
I have to admit that I have learnt a lot from cooked ROMs which helped me to tune the original ROM to my best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's what I have suggested yesterday but met the offence only.
Well, different people, different opinions.
ryncppr said:
I think in this thread, we should add the most common problems that we have so we can start looking into them more deeply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ryncppr, apart from the need to learn more about Original roms, i also came across another strange fact that is widely ignored.
Does anyone care "what" original rom to flash before flashing his desired cooked one? I read many of the threads ; it seems that nobody does pay any attention to this matter. BUT the type of Original rom we flash before flashing the cooked one (depending on our geographical location and the make of our phones), DO CERTAINLY COUNT A LOT.
This is what I noticed and just posted on Dutty's V1 thread :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=398271&page=90
Technically, I don't understand why this happens (perhaps you as a good chef could explain this matter in technical terms) , but I have no doubt now that it is crucially important what original rom we flash first.
Bardia Garsha said:
ryncppr, apart from the need to learn more about Original roms, i also came across another strange fact that is widely ignored.
Does anyone care "what" original rom to flash before flashing his desired cooked one? I read many of the threads ; it seems that nobody does pay any attention to this matter. BUT the type of Original rom we flash before flashing the cooked one (depending on our geographical location and the make of our phones), DO CERTAINLY COUNT A LOT.
This is what I noticed and just posted on Dutty's V1 thread :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=398271&page=90
Technically, I don't understand why this happens (perhaps you as a good chef could explain this matter in technical terms) , but I have no doubt now that it is crucially important what original rom we flash first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A big problem is that people do not believe you need to hard reset after you flash a ROM. You do. THe process that WM has built in only clears the memory and storage files, leading to useless junk that gets left behind.
I used to think if I flashed a ROM it was completely getting rid of the last rom, which has found not to be the truth. Though a clearing system file is now shown on the screen, it is not truly getting rid of all the old files, hence the problems with putting ROM over ROM.
bad practice
I know it's a bad practice to have, but I very rarely hard reset my phone after a flash, and I have to admit I never flash the originals back to my phonebefore flashing. once in a great while I hit a weird glitch that I can't seem to find a solution for, and so I hard reset to fix it. I guess part of it is that i'm so impatient that I can't stand to wait a few extra minutes. I check the site anytime i'm not working and if there is a new rom available I've downloaded and flashed before looking through the bugs found. I guess i'm gonna start going to originals first and hard reset every time, now to help on that, is there a way that we know of that will automatically do the hard reset one time right after a flash? I know UC wouldn't work cause it runs after the hard reset/flash so it would loop. if we could cook the rom to auto reset once and one time only it would help out those that ocasionally "forget."
on a side note, this was typed through my phone so sorry for any spelling errors there might be and thank you ryncppr for a great rom.
tubaking182 said:
I know it's a bad practice to have, but I very rarely hard reset my phone after a flash
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The truth is you are a big boy and can handle the giltches/issues. Just take a look at hundreds of posts out there in which people complain and report about some of the most unthinkable issues (e.g. "my phone resets itself every 5 minutes" (Jesus Christ) !! or "when I push the call button my phone starts media player"!! perhaps soon we should expect posts that will read: "after disconnecting the bluetooth headset, our washing mashing stopped working" !
I know that for example Dutty is very serious on his belief on flashing original/HR/cooked/HR every single time one wants to flash a rom - and for god's sake this man really knows what he's talking about.
Sometimes very bizarre things happen when one ignores the above must-do process.
However, my main object here was to invite people to share their bits of info on what a specific original rom does (or might do) to our devices when it's flashed prior to a specific custom rom , and why.
and btw, your spellign is brilliant.
original HTC Tytn II ROM
Hello, since I`ve updates my HTC Tytn II I have too much problems with my internet connection, wifi, gps,...so I would like to upgrade to the previous Version WM 6.0 Prof. (original, german).
Have someone a linke where I could find original (geman) ROMs?
Thanks for your help,
Lou
loubega said:
Hello, since I`ve updates my HTC Tytn II I have too much problems with my internet connection, wifi, gps,...so I would like to upgrade to the previous Version WM 6.0 Prof. (original, german).
Have someone a linke where I could find original (geman) ROMs?
Thanks for your help,
Lou
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid your post has nothing to do with this thread - just wonder why u posted this here !
anyway, you can find the original/official kaiser roms here:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_ROMs
HTC & AT&T do different things
Ok, in oder to see the effects of different original/official roms we flash before the custom rom, i did the following and noticed an obvious difference:
1) flashed AT&T offiical WM6.1 CE 3.14.502.1 (built 19209) and then L26 V5
- flashed the same official AT&T and then Dutty's Diamond V1
in both cases, both L26 and Dutty's roms were not functioning optimal on my device. had to deal with many issues (from BT to GPRS to connectivity ...etc. as well as general responsiveness of the device)
2) flashed HTC_WWE_3.28.405.0 and then L26 V5
- flashed the same original HTC and then Dutty's Diamond V1
in both cases , both L26 and Dutty's roms were functioning a lot better on the device. almost %90 of the previous issues were gone.
in both 1) & 2) I used radio 1.65.16.25 and observed strictly the same procedure (usb flashing, same HR, no SD card inserted, no 3rd party app installed ...etc.)
what's going on? i'm now more confident that the type/version of the original or official rom we flash prior to the custom rom affects the custom rom and its behavior on our devices hugely.
this is still widely igonored by the chefs as i've never heard them on their threads mentioning/suggesting what original/offiical rom should be flashed prior to flashing their cooked roms.
I think alot of what you are trying to accomplish here was discussed previously. I have always been a proponent of trying to use Original ROMs in order to better understand what is "original" vs what is cooked and doing all tweaks by myself:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=389519
Just stumble upon this. I think this one is quite insightful. But yet we have only Cooked ROM threads, reviews, and comments. Not on Stock ROM... once a while though *wonder why.. LoL*
Maybe we should encourage people who use stock ROM to start a thread for their own stock ROM version and make some reviews among the users? Not so good idea, but not so bad either.
I mean this thread is not only to know what work in 6.1 and what doesn't, right?
And for the current moment maybe we could have common concensus for responding to 'bizarre problems after flashing ROM xx.. bla.. bla bla' with : reflash stock rom -> hard reset -> reflash cooked rom -> hard reset -> still have problems?
Just stumble upon this. I think this one is quite insightful. But yet we have only Cooked ROM threads, reviews, and comments. Not on Stock ROM... once a while though *wonder why.. LoL*
Maybe we should encourage people who use stock ROM to start a thread for their own stock ROM version and make some reviews among the users? Not so good idea, but not so bad either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Schizo, im gonna do it in few days! I'm working on cooked first. But i have in plans to test Stock ROMs...
Hello fellow Chefs..
I know all of you are probably busy, but I hope you'll read this.
For few months I have this idea, which seems I can't do myself (mostly lack of time, as well as resources and knowledge of few things).
Since first time I read about UC, I knew what I wanted to do: a basic, simple ROM version, without *anything* added. Just plain OS, nothing else.
Basically it can be described in one sentence:
Less cooked-in, More by User.
Less is More.
The idea was the same as behind UC - let the USER customize it the way he wants during flashing or after every hard reset.
Call it "cooking without cooking"
I did it, but the time took me to finish it made it old and obsolete build.
I was going to do new one when I received 20748 from Akadonny, based on the same principle, but I realized it'll take me too much time again.
So here is passing the idea to you:
If you have some new good base, beside cooking your usual ROMs, perhaps consider making one small extra "basic" ROM?
You may ask why.
Well, you can see the answer in post of each and every ROM thread. Johnny wants NETCF3.5 cooked-in while 888 dont want it Johnny2 ask for game, Johnny3 asks to remove this, another wants that to be added and so on and on. You get the idea, I think
No one needs exactly the same features as another person.
Sure, continue making your own "custom-featured" ROMs with your selection of custom cooked-in add-ons (ie latest Garmin's ROMs with his own cool icons, or sakajati's cool looking ROM with cooked-in Manilla 2D). Many people have no slightest idea how to even change their wallpaper, so obviously all they want is "ready to go", fully pre-loaded and fully pre-configured ROM.
But also there are people who know how to use UC to its full extent, including loading their own settings XMLs and their own selection of software.
They don't need all those extra nifty perks you guys cook-in in every ROM.
And very often the settings you guys have cooked-in make problems for them. Don't misunderstand me here: it is great for most average people when you cook-in features they can't or don't know how to add. But not everyone needs it. Hence the idea - make an extra version of ROM, *without* all your usual extras, perks, and whistles, don't cook-in anything there, and let the user choose what to add with UC. Yes, I noticed that for some Chefs the art of cooking is some sort of competition - "I add this first, I do that better," and so on... well, making a "basic" ROM can be and is competitive as well! If you need "competing adrenaline" think of it that way: can you "shave" the base as much as other Chef and still have it fully working? Or maybe you can make it even smaller without sacrificing any functionality? (thats just example)
Anyways, I know it is doable.
And I know many people would thank you that
Whats more, cooking just a 'basic' ROM (without anything that can be installed later during UC) and relying on UC afterwards, makes it much better than spending time on setting up everything you would have cooked-in.
Why to do it?
Because once user have all his usual programs "moved" from having them cooked-in onto the Storage Card (and installed from there with UC), as well as all his settings etc in the XMLs on Storage Card, it is oh-so-damn-easy for every one to update their phone to the latest build version without loosing any of their programs, features or settings!
Lets say (this is just for example) that I have sakajati's latest 20749.1.4.0 build on my phone, but Garmin posted today newer 28000.1.5.0 build, so by flashing newest Garmin's ROM no one would loose any of their programs or settings they had on sakajati's ROM because they all would be installed again to Garmin's ROM with UC.
It would also eliminate dilemma users often have, like (again - its just example) "I like icons on Garmin's ROM, stability of sakajati's ROM and the way my GPS works so fast on XyZ's ROM, too bad I can't have all of them in one". Well, it is possible actually, but it takes Chef's to swallow a bit of our pride
Wouldn't it be great?
All it takes is Chefs making "on the side" extra lean/small/basic/whaetever-you-call-it version of their ROM, and accompany them with extended cabs packages rather than cooking it all in (where possible, of course), and the users themselves keeping all their extras (software, settings etc) on their Storage Card ready to be installed again and again every time they flash their phone with new ROM or if they just hard reset it....
I know I would like that, and I'm sure there are more people
Any takers to this idea?
Thank you for reading such long post
BTW
I started to play with something like that based on 3.29 from Akadonny.
If you want to see what I mean, it is in my shared files (\Private folder, "eLMO_3_29_..." ROM)
(NOTE: it is not finished, its work in progress, so it works partially, but I have no time to work on it now so most likely I'll never finish it - because probably again by the time I'll have it ready there will be 100 newer builds 'on the market' and it will be obsolete by then ).
A good idea would be
Edit: PPCKITCHEN NOW HAS KAISER SUPPORT...WOOT!
Old:
I seriously love the PPCKitchen cooking utility...So, if I knew how to sign and stuff, I could code it...so if anyone wants to get in contact with me.
-888- said:
Hello fellow Chefs..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
natalic said:
Edit: PPCKITCHEN NOW HAS KAISER SUPPORT...WOOT!
Originally Posted by -888-
Hello fellow Chefs..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old:
I seriously love the PPCKitchen cooking utility...So, if I knew how to sign and stuff, I could code it...so if anyone wants to get in contact with me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems like what you quoted is all what you read from my post
I just completed cooking what is essentially the 2nd version of my very first ROM. It all started out of a perceived demand for AT&T's Official 6.1 ROM, but without the ton of crap they put in it.
After I released V1 of my ROM, people seemed to be quite impressed with it, and quite frankly I was shocked, since it was my first attempt. Non-AT&T users then started asking about a version of the ROM without AT&T settings, so for V2 I released an HTC build based on their Official WWE ROM.
Both the AT&T and HTC ROMs are considered out of date by current build numbers, but since they are true Kaiser ROMs, I was able to avoid a lot of the minor issues that tend to show up in ROMs using bases ported from other devices.
In an attempt to appeal to as many people as possible, I produced 6 different versions (3 from AT&T and 3 from HTC) of V2.
The "Base" ROM included the bare-minimum. The only changes made were updating the camera and album, and adding a 10-button Comm Manager.
The "Base+HTC Home" is exactly as above, but with HTC Home added.
The "Loaded" ROM is a build very similar to what I use on my Tilt.
All of the ROMs were also made to be UC-compatible, so that anyone who flashed them could easily install all their apps not included in one of the various builds.
Once V2 goes final, I'm going to figure out the whole "upgrading base versions" thing, and start to experiment with newer builds.
NotATreoFan said:
The "Base" ROM included the bare-minimum. The only changes made were updating the camera and album, and adding a 10-button Comm Manager.
The "Base+HTC Home" is exactly as above, but with HTC Home added.
The "Loaded" ROM is a build very similar to what I use on my Tilt.
All of the ROMs were also made to be UC-compatible, so that anyone who flashed them could easily install all their apps not included in one of the various builds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congratulations on your new ROMs!
I'm sure I will try them when I have some more time, perhaps this weekend.
I remember your previous ROM v1 was very nice (yeah Im a ROM-junkie haha).
but regarding the subject.
I think you misunderstand me.
If I may take the example of your "Base ROM" because that's exactly what I'm talking about (same goes for example to Garmin's "naked" ROM; Garmin if you read it here is my explanation to what we were discussing when I had to leave earlier):
Camera - there are versions 4 & 5 available, and it perfectly works when installed separately, so it doesn't have to be cooked-in in a "base" ROM. Having "your" version already cooked-in actually prevents anyone using this ROM from installing any other Camera version...
Album - same as above. There are few different version of v.1 & v.2, each one of them has different size and slightly different option. Why it has to be cooked-in if it perfectly works when installed with UC?
Comm Manager - again, same as above. Especially this one, where there are more versions of this app than anything else, 3-button, 4-button, 6-button, 8-button, 9-button and 10-button versions available, and some with different "subversions" as well (different look/skins).
Give users of your "base" ROM freedom of choice and let them choose which version they want, DON'T cook those in!
Yes, you should include them in a "regular" more-less featured ROM, by all means they should be there, but IMHO for a "base" or "basic" ROM there should be only a minimum or basics, or the stuff that have to be cooked-in to work.
I started this thread not only because I was going to make it myself, but also because I noticed that so many ROMs I have tried in past few months are almost as bloated as official HTC ROMs, and almost all light/slim/small/naked/base ROMs that I've seen, with very few exceptions, are far from being really lite or small.
No.
-888- said:
Seems like what you quoted is all what you read from my post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. When I quoted the whole text I got issues...Sorry if I missunderstood by the way.
natalic said:
No. When I quoted the whole text I got issues...Sorry if I missunderstood by the way.
Click to expand...
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I've check this PPC Kitchen you wrote about (IMHO its a complete OT here). I dont know how it works and is it any good, but seems like it may be handy for less-knowledgeable people who want to avoid any command-line work but still would like to play own Chef's game Perhaps you should start new thread about it.
Nice idea but...
The reality is that chefs are cooking their roms to some extent for their own preferences, and then to a large extent to what most people want. I find it unlikely that there are many users like you who would prefer to have virtually everything stripped out of a rom. I agree it is nice to have a light rom w/o many programs, but in my experience most of the lite roms, or super lite roms have only some bare minimum program. (dialer, sql, netcf sometimes, office on occasion)
I truly think that users such as yourself need to get into the kitchen as you will never truly satisfied with someone else's work. This is not meant as a dig, but rather that you love to have your rom tweaked out just the way you want it. There will always be a few chefs who release the kinds of stripped down roms you're looking for, but i really doubt you will ever see most chefs releasing that kind of rom simply because it really isn't want most people want. I personally think a better solution is if more of the programs included were uninstallable. That way a user like yourself could remove those programs you do no want, then run your UC and have all your settings and programs just the way you wanted them, but also appeal to those users who want the rom to have at least a few of what they might consider the essentials.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
scotchua said:
The reality is that chefs are cooking their roms to some extent for their own preferences, and then to a large extent to what most people want. I find it unlikely that there are many users like you who would prefer to have virtually everything stripped out of a rom. I agree it is nice to have a light rom w/o many programs, but in my experience most of the lite roms, or super lite roms have only some bare minimum program. (dialer, sql, netcf sometimes, office on occasion)
I truly think that users such as yourself need to get into the kitchen as you will never truly satisfied with someone else's work. This is not meant as a dig, but rather that you love to have your rom tweaked out just the way you want it. There will always be a few chefs who release the kinds of stripped down roms you're looking for, but i really doubt you will ever see most chefs releasing that kind of rom simply because it really isn't want most people want. I personally think a better solution is if more of the programs included were uninstallable. That way a user like yourself could remove those programs you do no want, then run your UC and have all your settings and programs just the way you wanted them, but also appeal to those users who want the rom to have at least a few of what they might consider the essentials.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Ah no scotchua, I *don't* use completely stripped-down ROMs at all, ever
I doubt anyone does.
I load plenty of apps, probably more than most of the average people - I always have almost 500MB of programs on my SD (and none of those are any games!) and even though I install everything as much as I can to SD, I still get 50-70MB of stuff into Main Storage as well.
But all of them are *my* choices, almost all of them I have installed with UC.
Thats the beauty of UC which many Chefs seem to underappreciate.
I'm not against having any additional software, Im just saying that if Chefs would utilize UC more instead of cooking-in the apps that can be perfectly installed with UC, it would give more power to everyone - and make the ROMs more customizable than they are now.
As in the NATF's previous post example, he already denied users of his "Base" ROM their choice of Camera, Comm Manager and Album apps.
Would his "base" ROM be anything worse if those 3 apps wouldn't have been cooked-in but given to users as an option in extended cabs package? It wouldn't, and actually his ROM would have been even more versatile and customizable, because the same apps could be installed with UC by those who don't want anything else, while other versions of those could be installed by those who wanted something else.
I understand what youre saying - I agree it is "Chef's choice what ingredients they put in". But I'm not talking about show-off ROMs like ie sakajati's first kaiser ROM with Manilla2D, I'm talking about *base/small/lite* ROMs.
IMHo its some kind of misconception of what lite ROM is if anyone calls ROM "lite" yet half of *major* programs are already cooked-in.
I personally think a better solution is if more of the programs included were uninstallable. That way a user like yourself could remove those programs you do no want, then run your UC...
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I see here you partially see what Im talking about.
Unfortunately it doesnt work this way.
First, for any program to be uninstallable, it has to be installed from a cab. Therefore the cab have to be cooked-in. That takes space and would make any ROM more bloated than official ROM. take for example just few major apps like NETCF, WMLive, Office - just their cabs would still chomp out some 12-15MB of ROM, even if you would uninstall them, because you can't "uninstall" the cab itself, it will always be there in the ROM taking space. Thats worse than having them cooked-in.
But please follow me one step further.
Since you agree that it is better solution to have such uninstallable, the solution is exactly what Im talking about: anything that don't need to be cooked-in (in order to work properly) should go as a cab to storage card (instead of ROM as you suggested) and be installable/uninstallable from there.
Thats all it takes.
Less cooked-in = More.
With ie Camera app cooked-in you can't install any newer version on top of it.
With Album cooked-in you can't install newer version over it.
With Comm Manager cooked-in you can't install different version over it.
Almost every major program, when cooked-in, cannot be upgraded with newer version (or older if someone prefers it).
D3D drivers are almost released daily. What is the point to cook them in if by the end of the week there probably will be newer version? (and we all know that out of anything else we do want latest drivers always)
Those are just few examples.
Why should we force users to flash entire new ROM if all he wants is different Camera apps (for example)?
Solutions is moving all those programs to xtended cabs on SD and having them installed with UC , which would make them all not only perfectly uninstallable, without taking any space in the ROM when not installed or uninstalled, but they will be also easily upgradeable.
For half a year or more we have this perfect solution to all of it: UC
and almost nobody takes advantage of its great possibilities
-888- said:
I see here you partially see what Im talking about.
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I chopped the other to save space. It's not that i don't understand what you're talking about, and i do conceed i forgot that those cabs have to be stored separately on the rom, and it would be very bloated in that case.
The reality is that the type of rom you are wanting is really not desired by the majority of users here. I think that most chef's just aren't going to want to put out 3 versions of every rom they do. Hopefully one will take your words to heart though, as that would allow you the type of roms you are looking for. I just really don't believe that there are enough users who want those last few items stripped from the rom. i have been using UC since it was first released, and i think it's a wonderful tool. I love lite roms as well, for the reasons you stated. I do; however, realize that i'm more the exception rather than the rule. The majority of users can't even be bothered to look for a program, or figure out where to go to uncheck they proxy lol. I actually prefer to have a few things cooked in, for example sql and netcf. Not because i can't install them myself, but rather because if i don't install them first and separately then i seems to have issues with some of my programs.
I agree that installing programs to the SD card is the way to go. It allows you to never have to enter your settings again for so many programs. Recently it seems that I have been having a lot of issues with the files being corrupted however, which has actually been a source of frustration to me.
Anyway, I guess my point is that I understand what you're getting at, and i can see why it's appealing to you. I just don't think there's enough users who feel that same way to warrent the extra work required for the chefs. It is an interesting idea an maybe some others will come in here and prove that i am wrong for thinking so. This is an excellent discussion point, and your ideas are well thought out articulated. IT should be a useful discussion.
scotchua said:
I chopped the other to save space. It's not that i don't understand what you're talking about, and i do conceed i forgot that those cabs have to be stored separately on the rom, and it would be very bloated in that case.
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I chopped it as well, youre right -no need to repeat it all everytime we reply
Thank you. Im glad we're on the same page
I do understand that such "real lite" ROMs would be for just a fraction of people.
But I think it would change if this idea would spread.
because lets face it - for Chefs there will be absolutely no difference if the same programs that they cook-in would be attached as some extended cabs package to their ROM. Actually it makes cooking the ROM even easier
Its the same programs and features, but instead of having them cooked-in they can come as cabs to be installed with UC.
If Chefs would do this, at first probably there would be many people not understanding it and asking "what the hell is this UC and why do I have to extract second rar to my storage card" and so on. But once they would try it I'm sure even an average non-tekkie user would see the advantages: new Camera app has been ported from some OMNIA II ? No problem - uninstall the one you have and install new one. Don't like it? Uninstall new one and install old one back. Very much like on your standard computer. Thats the main advantage I see in "UC-ing everything".
Because I don't know about everyone else, but I sure have been always pisssed that if I want to change any of the major apps I have to reflash entire ROM!
Hopefully one will take your words to heart though, as that would allow you the type of roms you are looking for.
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Its not for *me*! I use my own ROM since I learned on Alex's kitchen... but yes, I would love to see such lite ROMs from other Chefs since we have some great talents here.
And please remember Im not saying that all ROMs should be made to have everything from UC, but the "lite" ROMs certainly should. No n00bs go for "lite" ROMs, thus it is safe to assume that all the "lite" afficionados here are at least accustomed with UC
Welp, the best solution is to create a base rom as clean as possible, then you pack all the cabs into exe installer file that runs on PC using any pocket pc installer creator. Set options to this installer so user can pick which cabs they want to install.
I might implement this on my future rom release (HyperDragon IV)
Nice idea -888-
for me, Creating ROM, means creating a choice for user,.
But some of the user, would like to use just what was included in the ROM itself,.
so for me, the best solution was making sveral variants,.
-888-,
I do like lite roms the best. Kyphur got me started in my quest to build the lightest, but fully functional rom. But even then there are some that prefer something not so lite. No matter what you do you will never satisfy everyone.
CRCinAU has a ROM for the Hermes which he calls 'Naked', which starts off with a base ROM. But he includes a utility that allows the user to pick which apps/utilities to add to the ROM after the user has the ROM up and running. Maybe that may be a concept to transfer to the Kaiser ROMs. Additionally, any apps/utilities that wouldn't be on this 'list' can still be installed by the user the old fashioned way.
Sorry, just thought I'd bring this up. I'm not a chef, although someday I'd like to learn how to cook up my own!
biscuits1978 said:
CRCinAU has a ROM for the Hermes which he calls 'Naked', which starts off with a base ROM. But he includes a utility that allows the user to pick which apps/utilities to add to the ROM after the user has the ROM up and running. Maybe that may be a concept to transfer to the Kaiser ROMs. Additionally, any apps/utilities that wouldn't be on this 'list' can still be installed by the user the old fashioned way.
Sorry, just thought I'd bring this up. I'm not a chef, although someday I'd like to learn how to cook up my own!
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Hermes have extended ROM, and it will be very easy to popping up the choice for user to install, with mortscript,.
but not kaiser, kaiser dont have that, so the only way of UC, was putting .cab inside storage card
Garmin said:
Hermes have extended ROM, and it will be very easy to popping up the choice for user to install, with mortscript,.
but not kaiser, kaiser dont have that, so the only way of UC, was putting .cab inside storage card
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what do you mean the kaiser doesnt have mortscript?
also, i think that tier autoinstall fits this category perfectly
I'm just layman user like most users here,and I think i very much agree with Scot. You see,if user like us were left to our own choice of how to install and make certain must-have apps (for us), like office mobile, windows live, etc, it will give the chef lots of headaches in replying "i try to install it but it wont work, you must help me... bla... bla... bla",since we don't even care that we have to install netcf first. Not to mention that installation of netcf itself is not as problem-free as most layman will think.
So most of the times i saw our chefs have to cooked some apps in to ensure it works so he will only be bothered by questions about more unspecific apps like beejive,arabizer,tomtom,igo,etc. It'd save him from standard apps question.
Although i must admit that your idea is very great,and very appealing to most advanced users. But maybe if chef should release this kind of ROM,it must be in separated dedicated thread with big bold warning letters:
"Please DO NOT TRY to flash this version of ROM if you don't even know how to customize things on your own. Any questions arised from ignorance will not ever be replied!!".
But from my observation here,even when warned harshly, there will always be ignorant people to give you nightmares, LOL =D
mbarvian said:
what do you mean the kaiser doesnt have mortscript?
also, i think that tier autoinstall fits this category perfectly
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No sir, i mean kaiser dont have extended ROM,.
Base/Clean ROM would be great
I've been here 'lurking' for a while and have been trying to find time to start cooking ROMs , but I must agree w/ 888 that sharing clean/base ROMs would be a great idea.
Personally I've moved from UC to Sashimi to configure my builds post flash as I find its much more robust than UC. The only potential downside to Sashimi vs UC is you have to invoke it post refresh whereas UC is loaded automatically for the ROMs where it is enabled.
However I rather enjoy the flexibility to see what the 'naked' rom can do before I add my apps and configs to it.
The chefs here are WAY beyond helpful, but I think it would be a great thing to have the bare bones type of rom that those w/o time to be chefs can still uninstall/install their favorite and or latest/greatest versions of the updated apps that seem to come out frequently.
Also by not cooking things in they can be upgraded when a potential improved version is available.
I'm still searching for the ultimate ROM, but that may be a long search. Each ROM I've seen and or installed has had its benefits and 'challenges'.
Just my twenty or so cents.
I know the process would be slightly difference for each device but I cannot find a description of how to back up my current rom, load a custom rom, and if need be flash the old rom back onto the device.
I also haven't found a description of what all is entailed in a custom rom. is it that much different than regular windows mobile? whats the difference between a new rom and a serious registry over haul?
I am running a HTC touch pro(ATT version) minus most of the bloatware and with some minor registry tweeks, no matter how I interface with it(touch flo3d, pointui, or the windows home screen) eventually it will lock up on the switch back from landscape. so if there was a rom that was built for high performance, but was able to use touchflo3d if I wanted, or was more finger friendly. . . .
I don't really even know what I want in a rom because I don't know what is offered.
so a little helpful explanation to take me from intermediate level to low end pro would be great thanks
rumpagump said:
I know the process would be slightly difference for each device but I cannot find a description of how to back up my current rom, load a custom rom, and if need be flash the old rom back onto the device.
I also haven't found a description of what all is entailed in a custom rom. is it that much different than regular windows mobile? whats the difference between a new rom and a serious registry over haul?
I am running a HTC touch pro(ATT version) minus most of the bloatware and with some minor registry tweeks, no matter how I interface with it(touch flo3d, pointui, or the windows home screen) eventually it will lock up on the switch back from landscape. so if there was a rom that was built for high performance, but was able to use touchflo3d if I wanted, or was more finger friendly. . . .
I don't really even know what I want in a rom because I don't know what is offered.
so a little helpful explanation to take me from intermediate level to low end pro would be great thanks
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Reading the Wiki always helps to solve questions
Original ROM´s (something like the operating system from factory) is loaded when you buy a device, this great forum have a lot of chefs (Members that improve original ROM´s) with dozens of custom or cooked ROM´s.
ALWAYS a cooked ROM is better than the original!
The best way to knoe which one is the best for you is to enter to the correspondent subforum of your device and READ a lot regarding the ones you are interested in, once you choose one enter to Wiki to learn hot to upgrade a ROM:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Raphael
Good luck and enjoy!
Wich one is better ? More stable ? I read some comments here and there, spend some time googling it, and lots of ppl says that 3.03 version is more stable and got more functionality, is that true ?. Anyway can i run wm6 applications and games on that cotulla rom ? I mean is this rom changes a lot, or this is just some kind of visulization ?
I dunno if the 3.03 is more or less stable then the 3.04, as I have used them bothe for too litle time now to make a comparison. But what I can say is that these ROM's change a lot. I use a couple of WM5/6 only programs on these and all that I tryed do in fact run perfectly, on bothe ROM's. I dunno if that is true for all WM6 software around, but for those I use these ROM's worked like I charm!
1- After a lot practical experince with both 3.03 and 3.04, I can say definitely 3.03 is more stable in various ways. If you'll introduce your device with WM6.1 for the first time, I advice you to choose 3.03, you won't regret it. Anyway, there isn't much differences between them, they are both the same ROMs but the latter one has some ins and outs from the first one (3.03).
2- Yes, after upgrading to Cotulla's 3.03 ROM, you will be able to use any application suitable for WM6.1 (of course usage of some programs can depend on other extra applications such as macromedia, windows frame work etc). Since it's not theme or visualisation, it's pure and real WM6.1.
in reality there big differences between 3.03 and 3.04...
about the best version... everybody have own opinion.
but I will suggest u to install the last one, if u want help me with project
i like 3.04 better.
it seems faster and is over-clockable. (with extra cooling)
blue tooth is better (not turning off as much)
i still run 3.03 on my second xda, and must reset it each and every day. (problems vary but reset and it goes away)
the sound quality is an issue with all three roms. it may have something to do with the radio rom. (1.12)
also have issue with mms/data or internet. can not use wap.
thank you all
3.03 has camera support, 3.04 no..