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Impressions from HTC Cruise - Windows Mobile
Hello All,
I have been relatively new here, but I thought I could contribute in the forums by posting my (unbiased) views about HTC Cruise here, hoping other people may find them useful. I am a software developer, so although I do not have an experience with hi-tech PDAs and smartphones, (never owned such a device before), I am fine with the technicalities of such devices.
My everyday phone was a simple sony ericson K510i . What had always annoyed me was that in most "simple" phones, it was quite hard to control the phone via my PC, do backups, backup contacts, SMSes, etc. My sony was good, I had found "MYPhoneExplorer" which pretty much did all those things for my phone. The screen was little bit outdated in terms of resolution, but I did not mind much.
And then came iPhone (which I never owned). I was impressed by its design, usability and user friendliness. I also liked the idea of having WiFi on it. I was close to buying that phone and using one of the available tools to unlock it, (noway I would pay for a contract - I am UK based). My brother who is into mobiles and gadgets more than I am, commented on the fact that iPhone is an "old" generation phone in terms of phone technologies and overpriced. I soon realised it was quite overpriced and started looking at alternatives. I was happy to see HTC would release a really cool phone, which I could get as my Christmas gift (yes, dream on, I had my eyes on it since November and managed to get it this February)...
So, what are my impressions so far?
I dare to say, quite mixed...
On the one hand this device is really wicked and cool! It has all the things I had always liked and needed in a single device. Packing a GPS, a radio, 3G, WiFi in a nice package is just amazing. I can now listen to music, watch videos, find my way around using GPS and have a nice PDA. These are really cool things! No need to have my pockets filled with separate devices...
On the other hand, this phone costed me little bit less than 400 pounds. One can argue you can get a laptop for that price, but then again, a laptop is not a phone. The video issues has not been much of an issue for me, I encode my videos at QVGA and all is well. However, I do get *very* upset when I realise that there is hidden potential in the hardware platform which has not been utilised. What I found bad straight from the moment i used it, is that when i press the "phone-call" hard button, there really is a lag when drawing the blue rectangle above the dialpad, (I am talking about the area which shows the names of your contacts as you type the numbers below.) I mean, come on, so much CPU power, and I can see the blue area being drawn? The other things is that if a couple of applications are running, then the phone does not seem to be operating so smoothly. Again, in order to be fair, it is still very usable. However, as things stand now in the market, in terms of specifications this phone is easily on the upper part, so in my opinion it should be fast, not just "very usable".
My other bit of criticism is probably related to Windows rather than HTC cruise. I find this OS quite interesting on the device, there is a huge applications' base and the things that are missing can be coded by talented people. However, I find the platform a little bit of a pain to use in a pure phone context. Why do i have to check an option everytime I want to get back a delivery report for my SMS? Why do I have to hack the registry to make this permanent? I set a wallpaper in my phone, then I set its transparency, then I realise it is hidden by the today plugin, which I can of course disable. If I disable it I loose certain features which are accessible straight away. I can of course get a new plugin that matchs my needs. Why is it so hard to have tabs with incoming/outgoing/missed calls? This is a feature that phones that cost 10 times less have. Of course Windows 6.1 has this, but then I would have to "install" a new ROM. Simple question: Why do I have to do these things? Why dont' they get it right from the beginning? Don't get me wrong, I am a technology enthusiast and I am sure I will manage to set up the phone the way I want. A number of users out there will do the same thing. However, is this platform one that non-enthusiasts would find user-friendly?
Look at all those skins and modding. Really cool. And the moment you press a button on your really cool new Today plugin, an ungly Windows application will pop up.
I hope that my criticism will be received well here! I like the phone, Windows is cool on it, but I think Microsoft has quite some way to go in order to make their platform really simple to use and user-friendly (think iPhone for example, my parents could use that, but I am quite sure if I show them my phone, they will not know how to make a a phonecall with it!)
In many ways some requirements are contradictory: Being user-friendly means you may have to hide settings, having your platform run on a variety of hardware means you cut corners here and there. Hopefully Microsoft will get it right with version 7 and 8, screenshots look quite good.
As for HTC... They lost a little bit of their credibility with a couple of issues for me. First the sound issue with the french rom which was initially denied and then fixed by people in this forum, then of course the drivers issue. I intend to make good use of this cool phone and customise it to my needs, it just takes time.
For your information, I find these applications useful:
Coreplayer (obviously!)
TouchPal keyboard works good for me
WKTask (and get rid off that default task switcher)
MyMobiler installs on your PC and a little "daemon-service" on your phone, (which you can disable). Then it allows you to control your phone from your desktop.
PocketCM did not particularly appeal to me, so I removed it
FunContact was cool, and loved it. Unfortunately, two things were not so good:
a) Splash screen and loading time
b) sometimes it made my phone freeze
Thanks for reading this (long) post,
Michael
Good post...Here are my impressions as well.
I used to carry a Palm Tx and a Motorala SLVR. I have been looking for the most ideal device to "do it all", PDA, phone (quad band gsm, tri band umts), wifi, and gps. There was nothing realy that appealing on the market until I read about the HTC Touch Cruise.
I read about people's complaints about the "driver" issues and hardware acceleration, and decided to take the risk and bought the phone from a gsm seller online. The phone was unbranded and did not have any stupid carrier proprietary software.
For the most part, I am very happy with the Touch Cruise. I have dumped the palm pda and the slvr, and have not looked back.
I just spent the last 2 weeks traveling to UK (London), Germany (Frankfurt), and Italy (Padova). As a mobile phone, the Touch Cruise functioned flawlessly and had 3G connections where they were available. Couldn't have asked for better features out of a "world" phone.
The TomTom GPS also ran quite well (Western Europe maps). Had to drive alot in Frankfurt and never got lost. Even traffic reports were right on the money.
As for a PDA, it blows the Palm syncing and calendar features out of the water. I used to be a Palm pilot only person, but Palm has become a dinasaur in their attutude to features and interface. The pocket pc has in my opinion surpassed them.
As a portable media device, it does kind of ok . Core Media Player is a must install, microsoft's media players still suck and are not usable and dont support all codecs. This device is not really ideal for video in my opinion. You have to re-encode videos to QVGA for ppc level quality, then video will play fine. You cant simply take a wmv file and dump it on the device to view, it wont work. As for music/mp3's, it works great. I got on a 10 hour flight from UK to US, and used it play music and games, and still had 40% battery charge left over and used an hour of GPS on the way home, with 20% left over.
In all fairness, the HTC could run a little faster, but I blame Microsoft and HTC for hogging up the cpu and not using hardware acceleration.
Since media (video) is not high on my list of required features, I am quite happy with the HTC Touch Cruise.
darkazally, I tend to agree with you really...
I guess if one did not have such a device before or had a really old one, then HTC Cruise is really super. On the other hand I can see certain people's frustration with Cruise. It is mostly people who owned 3 or 4 PDAs before and were probably expecting to be blown away by its specs; I kind of sypathise with them....
I read in an article written by someone at Microsoft, that companies tend to overload Windows with their own propriatory software and then the whole experience goes downwards. He mentioned that for the next versions of windows mobile, they intend to post stricter requirements just because of this situation.
As I also read in these forums, people who got their devices from O2 (just to mention a single company), seem to have more issues with HTC's performance...
I enjoy using the phone everyday and I am in the process of customising it to my needs, though it takes some time!
Uhhh mymobiler is amazing thanks for posting that! That is frickin sweet!
Great review, I tend to agree.
As far as PIM Management, I came from using two devices, a slim panasonic phone and a Xircom Rex 6000 PDA in the early part of this decade (circa 2001), like you I converged them into a Sony Ericsson phone (T610>T616) which had limited capabilities and lacked a lot of features my Rex had. In 2006, I got my first Windows Mobile smartphone, a Qtek 8310 (HTC Tornado), and now I have the HTC Touch Cruise.
Ever since getting into Windows Mobile, I thought that HTC/Microsoft had delivered great functionality, but poor usability and way too much lag for such high powered devices. Take for instance the settings panel. There are probably over 8 programs (4+networking icons, 3+ button config icons, ect) in there that only have one check box, when I'm sure HTC/Microsoft could very easily put them into one or two easy to use program with a Help feature.
But at the end of the day, I don't care if no one can use my device as long as I understand it. Additional consolation is provided in the fact that this phone looks so damned sexy
My Own impression
First of all, I'm new here & let me introduce my self...
I'm Richard & i'm from Indonesia.
I've waited for +3 months, before I decided to buy HTC Touch Cruise.
My other candidate are Atom Life & Nokia N82.
Soon (2 days) after my pal (who own a PDA shop) introduce me to Touch Cruise, I bought it
First impression is luxury.
Second impression........Windows Mobile sucks......
I have done hard reset for 4 times now....due to mis configure the registry....
I've done quite intensive test on my Touch Cruise, including Video,Audio,GPS,3G & Internet,Battery life & Applications.
This is my score (0-10):
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
2. Looks : 9
3. Dimension : 8
4. Features : 8
5. Usability : 8
6. User Friendliness : 6
7. Battery Life : 7
Average score : 7
The Driver issue doesn't bothered me yet, so I'm very pleased with my new Touch Cruise
NOTE:
FYI,try not to uninstall anything from your TC.
Microsoft Windows product tends to leave "garbage" into the Registry & it will slow down your TC.
Choose wisely before installing & if you have to uninstall,search & delete any leftover inside the registry.
d4rkkn16ht said:
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
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What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?
You know, there are certain lag things that I don't think are due to video drivers. I mentioned this in another thread "Why the lag" but I used to have a Cingular 8525 and supposedly that device had video drivers. It still lagged with a phone skin when you hit the phone button. Rotating the screen was still slow. I hate little things that lag like that. it should be smooth navigation / interface.
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to. You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps. Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer. You need to install your own video player. The HTC video browser app only shows videos with certain extensions. It's like you have to have a specific app for every little thing and then it feels like there isn't a streamlined feel to the device.
I gotta give credit to HTC for trying to improve the interface with their apps, the Windows interface is archaic. It's just the combo of the 2 doesn't allow for a polished interface.
hambola said:
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to.
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Click to collapse
On the other hand, thanks to HTC for a platform that allows us to do so and even greater kudos to all the xda-developer wizards who make it possible (and relatively easy for the most part).
Not enough can be said for xda. Although I'm a new poster I've been reading these forums for about a year now. Helped me out greatly with the 8525 and is proving to be helpful with the Cruise.
>You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps.
I am happy we agree on this, I just wish it had a little bit of the Apple touch on it, that's all....
>Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer.
All I wanted is a kind of minimal interface, so I can set my own wallpaper and not have it hidden by the huge HTC today plug-in. I have installed spb shell for a couple of weeks now and it looks great. I also discovered the HTC Home Customiser which looks cool, so, that's nice too.
>You need to install your own video player...
I think HTC should actually write a very generous paycheck for the people that developed CorePlayer. Without that one, Cruise would be a *little* bit of a disaster.
Overall I guess Windows is a versatile OS with lots and lots of space of customisation and at the end you do get it right, it just takes a lot of patience and resets to get there...
rev3nant said:
What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?
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After some intensive test, I found some irritating bug that caused stability issues.
Quick Menu sometimes disappeared after running several applications.
System Hang at random cause.
Some system settings cannot be changed even if you've already change it.
Redundancy in Registry Entry that can cause stability issues if you change the entry. (not considered a bug if you don't change it)
and some other (not quite sure yet...)
Have you tried a different ROM?
Let me start by praising this forum. You're all members of an incredible community. I just purchased my first mobile device (besides Sega's Game Gear and the original Nintendo Game boy, if you'd be liberal enough to put these in the same category), the hTC Raphael (AT&T's Fuze more precisely), and you guy’s have got me really excited about this technology.
Excuse me for continuing off topic, some background information may help you to answer my questions.
I’m really into technology, I’m always learning more about web standards, xml, hardware engineering, open source development, and computer science in general. I have a small computer lab in my house comprised of desktop systems dating from 1994 -2005. Due to financial limitations I don’t usually buy new equipment. As a hobby I sell and repair computers, and I’m really into web development (SVG has been my main interest for a while). I’m a very novice programmer, taking my first baby steps into Java though I’ve briefly used C++ and I’m fairly fluent in Javascript.
Let’s get back to the Fuze already! Heh.
So I’d obviously like to customize the Fuze to my liking, and I’ve been doing my homework. I bought the device because of its support for SVG, VPN (for my home network),WIFI (the university I’m attending has a large WIFI network), and Opera Browser. I just tried out tyguy’s forum post, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3042587#post3042587 , yesterday. After some customization (rhedgehog's Raphael Tweaks, adding support for zooming with the scroll wheel in opera, screen rotation via accelerometer, My_Flash3_1) I realize that I’m pretty disappointed with the device. It seems to be running slower than ever (I used the default rom w/ the bloat ware for a week), my email had broken (probably because of Sprite Backup restoring ‘personal information’ w/out ‘system files’, luckily nightbird’s post, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=412438 , linked me to the software that fixes this ‘can’t view my inbox’ issue), the TF3D Music Library changed for the worse, but I’m not here to complain. Tyguy’s post was adequately informative, and a great start for beginners like myself.
At this point you’re probably saying “What is your question, and what does this have to do with BlenderPocket?!”
So.. I understand that the graphic rendering support of the Fuze is less than what some would like (probably due to the Qualcomm Chipset). Pauloke’s Diamond VR Hologram v2.02 runs on my Fuze, but at a frame rate of 0.17FPS. I’ve read up on Hard-SPL by Raphael Elite Team, Raphael Elite Project’s RC2 ROM, Aruppenthal’s RRE ROM, and Monx’ ROMeOS2. I’m cautious to try flashing, but I have an insurance policy, so I’ve decided to try Raphael Elite Project’s RC2 ROM.
On to the questions!
Has anybody tried BlenderPocket on a Fuze? http://russose.free.fr/BlenderPocket/ This would be an ideal application for my device.
Do those of you ‘in the know’ think that the rendering support of the Raphael could handle this app? The system requirements for BlenderPocket are quite low.
Which ROM’s effectively enhance rendering support for OpenGL, MD3DM, SVG Graphics? / Is there a ROM you would recommend for my Raphael? (after reading my autobiography, lol ) I understand that these are complicated issues involving Qualcomm proprietary drivers, I'm just trying to catch the most up to date information on Raphael graphics development.
I understand that there are some issues with the Fuze keyboard. Blender, among other apps, require input configuration from hard keys.
Where might I find information about mapping keyboard keys to apps (specifically pertaining to the Raphael)?
Where might I find a table of the hard key codes (ie: PAD_00x01)? http://russose.free.fr/BlenderPocket/?q=node/22
Does the ‘HTC Fuze Keyboard Fix.cab’ fix the keyboard issues I’m speaking of (the issue some have noted about not being able to configure keyboard keys as input to emulators and the like), or just adjust for the AT&T keyboard layout?
While on the topic of emulators.
Has anybody successfully run FPSEce on their Raphael? Sonhy claims that it works great on his system, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2642151#post2642151 . Others complain of keyboard and rendering issues. It would be incredible to use this device for work and play, a PS1 emulator would be ideal for play time. :-D
Thanks in advance for any advice or answers to my questions. All advice is appreciated.
Also in advance I apologize for any duplicate questions, I’ve spent a week combing the forum and these are some questions that I’m left with.
I am more than willing to donate my time to testing and development as well as money (what little I have of the stuff) when I'm better educated on who's hands it belongs in.
EDIT: After installing the Dimond Ati Drivers I now have 16.67 Average FPS during execution of Pauloke’s Diamond VR Hologram.
Now if only I could figure out this button mapping. I'm trying out ButtonFinder.exe
[email protected] said:
Which ROM’s effectively enhance rendering support for OpenGL, MD3DM, SVG Graphics? / Is there a ROM you would recommend for my Raphael? (after reading my autobiography, lol ) I understand that these are complicated issues involving Qualcomm proprietary drivers, I'm just trying to catch the most up to date information on Raphael graphics development.
I understand that there are some issues with the Fuze keyboard. Blender, among other apps, require input configuration from hard keys.
Where might I find information about mapping keyboard keys to apps (specifically pertaining to the Raphael)?
Where might I find a table of the hard key codes (ie: PAD_00x01)? http://russose.free.fr/BlenderPocket/?q=node/22
Does the ‘HTC Fuze Keyboard Fix.cab’ fix the keyboard issues I’m speaking of (the issue some have noted about not being able to configure keyboard keys as input to emulators and the like), or just adjust for the AT&T keyboard layout?
While on the topic of emulators.
Has anybody successfully run FPSEce on their Raphael? Sonhy claims that it works great on his system, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2642151#post2642151 . Others complain of keyboard and rendering issues. It would be incredible to use this device for work and play, a PS1 emulator would be ideal for play time. :-D
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The htc fuze keyboard fix only fixes the keyboard layout if you use a touch pro rom which has different keyboard layout. Most roms here are touch pro roms, so you will need this for correct layout. I noticed on that emulator thread there was a link to this keyboard mapping for games,http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2703133&postcount=3
I've tried a few of the roms here, Da_G's is very good if you don't want to use the touchflo3d UI. With touchflo, the ROMeOS roms are hard to beat, although NATF and Proven roms worked well for me also. Choose one and flash, you'll be much happier with your fuze once you do as they are all huge improvements over stock rom.
Thanks Showaco. I had also seen Dilta's KforRaphael.CAB (Thanks Dilta!) Just hopeful that a more permanent fix to the issue could be developed. May be my first venture into programming for the Raphael.
Firstly, I've been following the leaks so far, and so I don't want to hear, oh there won't be a multitouch. The bottom line is, we don't know what the final product will be.
Secondly, it goes without saying, that I support any efforts by MS to incorporate capacitative screens. Currently, there are two known and upcoming solutions to replace the stylus, one an RF pen (a stylus that should work with cap. screens- google it!) and a solution that MS has recently invested in, called something like N-trig.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss, and make content those who are against multitouch if it comes to 6.5, or for that matter, 7.
Now, the main argument against multitouch, is that it is against single-handed usage. Here I will list why that is a moot/null/void argument:
- Using the iPhone as an example firstly (and pretty much throughout but it is not due to me having a liking for it, rather I hate it, but I hope to convey a more profound message), though there is argument over the pinch gesture in Safari (their internet browser), the double-tap to zoom is still available. So, the double-tap that we are used to in Opera, is also in Safari. So one can have it both ways. So, to sum up this point, devs would need to make sure that their programs are made for single handed usage, but that multitouch offers a different (and as some would argue, more enhanced) method of using the phone. So single-handed usage is still there, basically.
- Some games, require pressing of more than one button simultaneously. Now if buttons A, B and C are onscreen and are only viable via touch entry, then we're screwed once again as only one given button can be pressed at one time. If you're a gamer, you will know how big a limitation this is to your phone. It hurts in so many scenarios. If you're not into games, or your games are limited to puzzles: trust me, this is a biggie!
- A similar and relevant point; phones like Touch HD bear the brunt of lacking multitouch, as they don't even have a D-pad for games. So all buttons onscreen (D-pad inclusive) can only be pressed one-at-a-time!
- Whether you like this app or not, it demonstrates that some apps simply cannot do without multitouch. Why put limitations? If you want to argue it is against single-touch usage, then press one button at a time !
- Another app that is somewhat heartwarming . I've used it on an acquaintance's iPhone, and it's nice to swirl two of your fingers through the pond making multiple ripples. Again, just use single touch if you're against double ripples .
- Text entry for those of us that type at lightning speed would be hindered where we are required to press one button right next to the next one in quick succession. Why put this limitation?
- I will add more here onwards if something comes to mind. Maybe. Maybe not.
So all in all, single handed usage can still be there, and MS can enforce this in their SkyStore (app store equivalent), though granted it could be difficult. But most developers would do this, as most do what their customers want, not what I, the dev want.
LASTLY, this is not a WM bashing thread if you think like that, so stop hating! This is for improvements only!
Just to let you know...it's not all M$'s fault..Mostly HTC and the companys that make the devices. Just look at the omnia. It has a capactive touchscreen.
Good Points, and just because WM6.5 has Mutlitouch available doesn't mean devs or phone builders would HAVE to use it.
I'm a big fan of "many options."
Side Note: Moved to General Discussion.
Kraize said:
Just to let you know...it's not all M$'s fault..Mostly HTC and the companys that make the devices. Just look at the omnia. It has a capactive touchscreen.
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Is this truly true ? If so, why doesn't Samsung advertise it as much? Also, doesn't the small buttons become difficult to use?
JimmyMcGee said:
Good Points, and just because WM6.5 has Mutlitouch available doesn't mean devs or phone builders would HAVE to use it.
I'm a big fan of "many options."
Side Note: Moved to General Discussion.
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This is precisely my point! The only little niggle is that devs should make sure that productivity tools allow single handed usage as well. One way would be to enforce this through the SkyStore. Another would be to let the magic happen itself.
I really want to see what people will say against my strong defence of multitouch. Come on people!
It will raise the cost of the devices (both due to the much more expensive screen AND the need for a special, larger stylus) and create a further layer of incompatibility between WM devices (those with multi-touch and those without).
Surur
surur said:
and create a further layer if incomparability between WM devices (those with multi-touch and those without).
Surur
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Which is why everyone should have to buy a new device when Windows Mobile 7 is released.
Seems people are forgeting WM6.5 is more like Vista, a stop gap before the better OS ie Windows 7
Why WM6.5 does not have mltitouch ?
I will try to answer this question.
The big hardware manifacturers are in the begining of producin multitouch capable phones (you all know that you need multitouch capable digitizer in order to be able to use multitouch). Microsoft communicated with manifacturers and they were not ready with such devices, which is the reason multitouch to be reserved for windows mobile 7.
Seems people are forgeting WM6.5 is more like Vista, a stop gap before the better OS ie Windows 7
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Totally agree
I see no real benefit in multi-touch on small screen. granted, in games with on devices with minimal input buttons, but until device manufactures actually start releasing 3D drivers for the devices the point about gaming isn't of much substance because there will only be mediocre games.
I don't know what the masses want but I see little benefit in it on screens that one can stretch the thumb from bottom left of the device and reach the top right.
I rather draw a counter clockwise circle to zoom and a clockwise to zoom out.
the real benefit is in the screen response, not the multi-touch. aside from gaming, tell me what other real benefit is there? because I don't see it.
Text entry for those of us that type at lightning speed would be hindered where we are required to press one button right next to the next one in quick succession. Why put this limitation?
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I think this depends on the sip you're using and have no reliance on multi-touch capabilities. I see myself as a very fast typist and this is thanks to the sip I'm using.
do this, ask your friend to do this with his iPhone: press 2 keys at the same time while typing the word "Quilts", so your friend would type it like this "Qu" then "il" then "ts" and tell us what's the result. I am pretty curious as to what the results will be. I would ask my girl to do it but she's at work now.
I've been at XDA for 2 years, initially trying to get my T-Mobile MDA to perform better, and for this past year my T-Mobile WING. I've never owned an iPhone -- nor have I ever sat down to ask friends of mine who have iPhones these questions. But now I am curious:
Apple makes killer products with thoughtful attention to product design, customer usability design, graphical interface, and occasionally some software/hardware breakthroughs (like multi-touch for the iphone). Then they market to consumers like nobody else, in every sales channel. This is all the "in-front of the curtain" stuff everyone knows.
But I know from being a Mac user since 1986 with my original MacSE, all way up to the current Mac Pro desktop and MacBook Pro laptop, that "behind the curtain" they ALL lock-up at times, requiring restarts, etc. And servicing. I just got my Mac Pro desktop back from repair where a hard drive failed. ... But I am out of touch completely with the world of iPhones.
Some of you have iPhones. I'm curious on a given day, how many apps can you run simultaneously, and how often does an iPhone freeze up requiring a reset? For comparative purposes, on my "XDA-modified" Wing (HTC Herald) -- which has an old & slow processor, and very litle RAM, I can now, after many software improvements, run Google Maps, Contact Manager, Notes, Total Commander, OperaMini browser, "Photos & Videos" photo cropper, and sometimes my MP3 player all open at same time, and not crash. My MP3 player *will* cause all that to lock up, and I know this, so I don't normally do this, but under normal usage, all of the above WITHOUT the MP3 player is doable), and I task-switch between these open apps.
How much can the iPhone handle simultaneously?
Do they freeze up time to time?
If so, how often for an average user?
What's the remedy? A "restart"?
This is not a "shootout" question. It really is just curiosity because I hear all the time the many great things about the iPhone (but that it lacks video, and MMS messaging), but I have no clue at all if they generally never lock up, or if they do. thanks, in advance for any comments.
quicksite said:
How much can the iPhone handle simultaneously?
Do they freeze up time to time?
If so, how often for an average user?
What's the remedy? A "restart"?
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Click to collapse
a) for an "average" user - 1 app at a time (the exception being itunes + whatever app you want to use.)
for someone who is willing to mod there iphone (jailbreak + backgrounder app) i'll reckon 3 - 4 apps.
b) hardly, again for an average user this would be even less, probably once a couple of months.
if you are into cutting edge stuff then more freq., maybe once a week.
c)1) hold the home button , this should force the the app to close.
2) if the above step does not work, turn of the phone by holding the power button
3)if that does not work, reboot by holding the power and home button simultaneously.
Thats being generous Yes the iPhone DOES lock up and freeze, fairly often. At least as much as a factory standard WinMo device, if not more. Of course WinMos, being much more open can be modified and as such they have the potential to be less reliable if the modding isnt careful.
rovex said:
Thats being generous Yes the iPhone DOES lock up and freeze, fairly often. At least as much as a factory standard WinMo device, if not more. Of course WinMos, being much more open can be modified and as such they have the potential to be less reliable if the modding isnt careful.
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i beg to differ, winmo requires a softrest atleast every week, on the other hand i have not had to reboot my iphone since last dec.
Well my experience is somewhat different, the iPhone i had to test (im a technology reviewer) required a reset at least every few days. Ive only just given it backafter 6 months or use so it wasnt to do with early software. My everyday phone is a Touch HD, and it does have issues, but normally only with opera, nothing else causes any problems that need a reset.
rovex said:
Thats being generous Yes the iPhone DOES lock up and freeze, fairly often. At least as much as a factory standard WinMo device, if not more. Of course WinMos, being much more open can be modified and as such they have the potential to be less reliable if the modding isnt careful.
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Just no
It hardly ever screws up, but does sometimes.
But to say more than stock WM is hilarious.
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
Well, since i experience otherwise.. JUST YES. I love how others automatically write off your experience because they don't experience it.
Multitasking has little to do with anything, some of the stock and buyable apps for the iPhone are problematic and cause it to lock up. Im hardly the first or last person the find this.
rovex said:
Well, since i experience otherwise.. JUST YES. I love how others automatically write off your experience because they don't experience it.
Multitasking has little to do with anything, some of the stock and buyable apps for the iPhone are problematic and cause it to lock up. Im hardly the first or last person the find this.
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Well i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
just out of curiosity, what firmware were you running ??? and what were the stock applications that caused you to lock up.
and did you actually lock up or did the application crash???
rorydaredkign said:
Just no
It hardly ever screws up, but does sometimes.
But to say more than stock WM is hilarious.
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
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wow you ran a mp3 player, sms and the web and it didn't freeze?? AMAZING.. /sarcasm
Apples attitude is 'my way or the highway' and as someone mentioned, windows can be tweaked opening to reliability problems.
My WinMO device hasn't required a softreset for about a month. My friends iPhone froze as soon as i ran a app, forgot what it was called.
If Microsoft made a phone that was the perfect config to their software, it'll run like a reliable phone but that's Apples territory. There is a reason why it's called "Jail"Break.
Same with the OSX and Windows.. you can't compare cause Microsoft makes it work with thousands of hardware and is bound to run into a problem somewhere. OSX is very limited so they hardly run into problems.
I've used Windows Mobile phones (standard and professional) since 2005. (Starting with the Audiovox SMT 5600) In addition, I have had a work BlackBerry since 2007, and an iPhone (now iPhone 3G) since 2008.
To answer your questions, I have rarely (maybe once every few months) had the iPhone freeze up requiring a reboot. To be honest, I rarely had a hard freeze on any of my Windows Mobile phones BUT I did restart them once a week because they just ran better that way. (Memory leaks, probably)
You can't compare the iPhone directly because by design, only a few applications run simultaneously: Mail, Phone, Safari, iPod. (And possibly Maps)
However, the iPhone seems very good at switching from application to application, with no noticeable memory leaks.
I've found that it really depends on what you expect the phone to do. I rarely talk on the phone or text; for me, it's all about email and Internet usage. The Safari browser is currently second-to-none, and the iPhone is exceptionally good at connecting to Wi-Fi whenever available seamlessly. And, since the email application uses Safari to render, it is also very good.
Thank you for all your replies. It wouldn't be the tech world if there wasn't vast -- sometimes diametrically opposed -- disagreement.
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
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Once again, my inquiry is not for "shootout" reasons. It has to do more with the reliability of the overall user experience on the iPhone. I know from only briefly using it for 15 minutes or so, how responsive it is, and how easy the interface is to use. But it only struck me recently, given this new explosion in Apps for Touchscreen devices, that the more things people are going to want their iphones to do, DO they ever freeze up.
I was looking for an answer like "only 1 out of 100 people, and maybe then, maybe every 3-4 months, so in general it just doesn't freeze up in numbers high enough to be statistically noteworthy".
But even given the disagreement of experiences just amongst 3-4 people in this thread (a very tiny sample), it freezes more than I would have expected. That's not to lower the grade of reliability in using an iPhone to accomplish a series of tasks; it's more just to note: YES, IT DOES FREEZE UP, on occasion, but rarely.
I already know my old T-Mobile MDA, and now my new T-Mobile WING, froze up a lot, for my taste; and that was before I started modding here at XDA. But I attribute most of those freezeups to the simple hardware inadequacy issue of slow processor and not a lot of RAM. So, if I wanted to launch a bunch of things to stay in memory, to swap back and forth between apps, the WM device would lock up, requiring a soft-reset to reboot the device.
WHich is why XDA-developers has pulled off miracles by, in effect, doubling or probably more like tripling, the usefulness of my WM phone.
But regarding this:
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
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I'm trying to interpret this correctly. Running only one thing at a time is only a great benefit if all apps open relatively instantaneously, like, in a half second. So I could hop between selecting text within a browser, then paste it in to a notes document, edit it a bit, then look up an address on Google Maps, find it, grab the link, then add it to my text doc, then snap a few pics, attach them to an email along with my edited text, and send -- perhaps with my mp3 player playing inot my earphones the whole time.
I am talking about realtime use-case scenarios, not simply the sequential moving from app to app on an iphone. So, what I am interested in NOW is doing a bit of a shootout between an iphone and a WM phone in accomplishing a real-life array of tasks -- because that's the real test of the performance of a phone. Not what it does in demo mode, but in reallife getting stuff accomplished mode.
Is anyone here interested in helping to construct a few scenarios? I mean a wide variety of stuff, from emergencies and need and ambulance and also to perform CPR on someone and finding out where they are, to going to a demonstration in Washington DC, coordinating your meeting spot, using Google Maps to track where various people are, shooting photos, updating a blog in real time, etc --- and many kinds of multi-tasking of life demands ?
I am seeing 5 if not 6 platforms now poised to battle each other in the downloadable widget/apps dept -- Apple, Google Android, Blackberry, WindowsMobile, Palm, maybe Symbian, who knows maybe Nokia --- and I am interested in how this all starts to play out when people load suff onto their phone expecting to do x, y, z at the same time, or closely in sequence -- and how each platform is poised to handle these consumer behaviors.
thanks for the headstart in learning that the iPhone, though perhaps more reliable than WM in not freezing up so often, still does have this issue to contend with from time to time.
In a sense, WindowsMobile users almost expect there will be hang ups time to time... frsutrating and irritating, but not like a major surprise. Whereas I would imagine iPhone users have very high expectations, like close to perfection, and will not take kindly to any increasing freezeups.
Just my 2 cents on this in general.
quicksite said:
I'm trying to interpret this correctly. Running only one thing at a time is only a great benefit if all apps open relatively instantaneously, like, in a half second. So I could hop between selecting text within a browser, then paste it in to a notes document, edit it a bit, then look up an address on Google Maps, find it, grab the link, then add it to my text doc, then snap a few pics, attach them to an email along with my edited text, and send -- perhaps with my mp3 player playing inot my earphones the whole time.
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you do know that the iphone cannot do almost half of the things listed here
fallenczar said:
you do know that the iphone cannot do almost half of the things listed here
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Well that's kinda why I listed them, kind of like at the start of a race, ready-set-go! And when it comes time for iphone to shoot video, race ends... or sending an MMS message.
As far as I know those are the two main things, right? But in all fairness, you just know Apple is going to have those two things added into and working in their next big product release.
So I am really aiming this for that next release... My overall premise is that the consumer marketplace has almost no clue about what all these competing devices & platforms do and can't do. But that's not because they're stupid. Rather it's because they are hyper-marketed at, very effectively, with really sharp ads that focus on different whiz-bangs -- coming at them from 3 different industry sectors all at once:
the Carriers tout their packages and calling features mixed in with snippets of cool phone, then the phone makers tout their newest whizbang devices features & differentiatable special gizmos, and the platforms come at them with their own angles, again inserting whiz bang phone devices into the ads. Then I guess you could add a 4th source -- bloviating saleasmen at Best Buy (in USA) showing people their latest most expensive phones, regardless of the bigger picture questions of platform and carriers required to use it.
This is my reason for wanting to develop several real-world use-case scenarios, just to test how well each achieves the end-objective.
quicksite said:
Well that's kinda why I listed them, kind of like at the start of a race, ready-set-go! And when it comes time for iphone to shoot video, race ends... or sending an MMS message.
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well not quite
there are a couple of video rec. and mms apps, and they work as reliably as apps on other platforms.
However, i don't think it would be fair to compare 2 platforms that are so dissimilar, one being media centric, the other being business centric.
You are right about not really being able to compare them, they are two different devices with 2 completely different intended audiences.
I have used WM since 2001 constantly and I have used my iPhone for about 2 months.
Why WM devices are more like a little mini computer in my pocket where as my iPhone is more like a pocket media device that does lots of things that WM does, but not all.
I would say that my iPhone has only crashed 1 time in 2 months and that was from some jailbreak action, never from normal use. There are a couple of things that should be clarified about the iPhone and its limitations though:
1. No copy and paste. Duh. Everyone knows that. I knew it going into the whole 2 year contact. I can't honestly say that other than entering in my signature for emails has that really been an issue.
2. MMS. Today was the first time I wanted to send an MMS and I just emailed it to their phone number instead. No biggy. Worked well.
3. No true multi tasking. I disagree with this one. While there are some things I would prefer to be able to run at the same time most programs save state when they are closed so they are exactly back where they where when you closed it. Games, utilites etc.
Heck, the free timer I downloaded is programed so well that the start time used is the actual time that you hit the button so it comes back up and keep the count running.
Are there things I miss from my WM device, sure. Are there things that the iPhone does better than WM does? Sure. Are there things WM does better than the iPhone, sure.
How much does each one crash? I'd say a touch more on WM, but that is because I have a great ROM that a dedicated chef cooked up here at XDA. Comparing stock to stock though, is no comparison. The iPhone wins hands down in that regard.
I was surprised that mame does not exist for android. I thought mame has been ported to pretty much everything, so surely there must be a version for android right? I know there is a version of mame that plays cp2 games and supports a couple of other types of hardware, but I'm referring to old school games (pac-man, frogger etc).
I'd like there to be a more robust mame for android. Something that supports all the roms as it does on the desktop. Obviously if it's a more modern rom and the cpu of your android device isn't enough for it, then it won't run well.
Again, for me personally it would be mainly the classic arcade games.
Most I can imagine working well, some wouldn't (like say defender just cause of it's control scheme).
Anyway, I'd really like to see this happen, but someone mentioned on another forum that developers don't want to as mame is opensource and they couldn't sell a closed source version. Actually, just reading the mame page it states:
"Redistributions may not be sold, nor may they be used in a commercial product or activity." It also goes on to say the source code would have to be released.
Would a donation fund be in conflict with the above? Hmm, probably so I assume. But again, it would be paying a developer a one-time fee for his service of porting and not the final product per say. Once he/she claims this bounty, it would be free to all others. Can anyone chime in if that would be in conflict?
Would any developer be interested in this? What would be a fair amount for this work? If I started this fund with even a small amount of say 10 dollars, if 10 others did, obviously it would only be 100.00. But maybe after some time 100 would. Would 1000.00 be worth it to a developer to take this task? I have no clue how difficult this would be to port to android (c to java porting). Obviously, some type of custom overlay controls would be needed as well in addition, a touch based frontend for launching the games.
Companies (atari etc) may not like the existence of emulators and I know roms bring up issues and would never be distributed, but emulators alone are completely legal.
Hey woah... Hold up on all the replies. One at a time folks.
I'm a little surprised, no one is interested to see mame on android? After productivity apps it was the first thing I thought of when I thought of gaming on my android. I've waited a while to see if things would happen, so now I thought of this idea.
No one is interested?
You won't be seeing recent versions of MAME running on Android at any point soon. The performance requirements for MAME have gone up drastically as MAME gets more and more accurate with its emulation. As such, you're only going to see older versions of MAME being used in stuff like phones, such as MAME 0.37 or below.
And for someone like you who really wants the older classics, running an older version of MAME would be better for you anyways unless you'd want to see the classics stutter and be almost unplayable.
I haven't been actively following mame development as of late,but I do remember when they changed from sound samples in asteroids and the CPU requurements went up drastically. But that was a unique case of emulating analog circuitry. So I'd be surprised if the requirements went up dramatically for say pacman.
But fine let's say you are right point taken. I would have no qualms with mame . 35 or whatever. But again few seem interested.
Besides the ones in the market?
http://www.appbrain.com/app/jrioni-arcade-full-version/com.jrioni.jarcade
Or this?
http://g-arcade.appspot.com/
g arcade only supports:
Capcom CPS-1,CPS-2,Cave
Neo Geo (make sure neogeo.zip(bios file) is in the same folder)
Taito, Toaplan
That's the one I was referring to initially. Not interested in that.
jroini I saw before and was under the impression it only supported modern hardware similar to g arcade but it seems I was wrong. However it is a commercial app and not in compliance with the mame license. From it's blog:
http://jrioni-arcade.blogspot.com/
Starting at the next release, Jarcade will no longer contain MAME core engine in order to be compliant with MAME license.
I'll separate all android related work from MAME core engine including UI/touch control, opengl rendering, screen preview/Cabinet, video/sound filter, file handling...etc.
There will be a separate MAME engine APK which will be open-source and free to download from Market.
What does this mean to you?
You'll need to download and install MAME APK separately.
Again, this is needed in order to continue supporting the project.
I hope you understand
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So it sounds like mame will be free and what he'll be charging for is the android gui?
Anyway, I'll look into this option further.
See my recent post. I have ported my iOS mame 0.37b5 Mame4all port called iMAME4all to Android. It's called MAME4droid. No stutter with correct hw without filtering
Let you play all classic
Hey! I just came here to spread the word! I just found this yesterday.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!
Just some comments. Not really related to your app but I have roms of a modern set and having difficulty converting my roms. I believe I understand how clrmamepro works (although I think the interface is clunky) and I didn't see any errors in conversion (using your dat file) but yet over half my roms won't work saying they are missing files. I used to use a different program for rom sets but I can't recall it's name as it has been a number of years. Even if it's still around, I assume you don't have a dat file for other rom conversion utilities. I can't recall if dat files are universal. I guess I could grab an exe of mame 37 and use that as it's reference.
On your program, great stuff! My only complaint is the actual controls unfortunately. And this may not be a fault of your software, rather my inability to get accustomed to touch based controls. Even in the menu to select a game I keep accidentally trigger a left or right and go down a full page. I have to be calm and patient just to select a game. I'm not sure how this can be resolved though. There is a dead zone option but no fine tuning. Maybe that would help. Or even an option to scale the control size? I realize that may start to overlap the game, but for good controls I'd sacrifice that.
What I think does need changing is the threshold for trackballs. I tried playing attaxx (a turn based game, so it doesn't require twitch skills) and even on the lowest trackball sensitivity setting I couldn't play it.
Also, is there a way to get into the dip switches of games? (difficulty, # of lives etc).
Finally, some games I prefer the bootleg version. If I have them in a merged set does it recognize that? For ex, with galaxians I prefer super galaxians that has the alternate board layout. Do I need to make separate rom set for that and not a merged set? Also, galaxians enemies shots seem to flicker more than I recall in mame on a pc. But a minor gripe.
Anyway, my only real gripe is the controls and that may just be my inexperience with touch based controls. But man, try and play frogger (which requires someone to let go and and then re-push in a direction) I could barely get a frogger to his home!
Regardless, thanks again. Android really needed this!
MAME is meant to be played on with buttons and real joysticks.
Yes I realize that, however things might be able to be changed to make the controls more usable. The trackball sensitivity definitely needs adjusting. And maybe a tweak for the deadzone option (like set a threshold value?).
sark666 said:
Also, is there a way to get into the dip switches of games? (difficulty, # of lives etc).
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Press Coin + Start at the same time