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Still Deciding between Touch Pro/FUZE and Xperia X1

When the X1 was first announced, I was all over it. Then the Touch Pro with TF3D was announced, and I thought... the X1 is too 'raw' compared to the 'slick' Touch Pro, so Touch Pro for me!
Then I tried the FUZE (AT&T's Touch Pro) and I was disappointed in a few areas where I was not expecting to be disappointed (details below).
So, as it stands today, I am leaning back toward the X1 over the FUZE (TP). But it's a close call, and I'm still undecided. Here’s why:
1. Xperia hardware looks like a device that I would be proud to be paired with. In other words, just like Apple, Sony understands that a gadget can also be a fashion accessory. That’s a 2-fer in terms of value-add.
2. I have found the FUZE to be too heavy and bricky to be really pocket-friendly. This was a major disappointment when I checked it out at AT&T last week! I was all ready to buy the FUZE when I realized that it would take a serious adjustment to have that kind of weight and thickness in my pocket. It remains to be seen how I feel about the X1’s weight and thickness (since it's not released yet in the States). But, in terms of the specs published, the X1 looks to be about .5oz lighter than the FUZE. NOTE: The FUZE for some odd reason seems to be .5oz heavier than the Sprint Touch Pro and the HTC Touch Pro. No idea why.
3. The X1 has more hard buttons on the front panel, and more easily pressed hard buttons on the front panel. I have heard serious complaints about the “up” arrow on the X1 d-pad, but I will have to see for myself if that is insurmountable. I have played with FUZE, and the front panel buttons are not confidence-inspiring. I feel like it’s a negotiation with each press of the dpad.
4. The absence of the g-sensor on the X1 is stunning, and quite disappointing. What a huge bummer. What the heck was Sony thinking? G-sensors = cool + fun. Xperia = cool+fun. What am I missing?
5. The FUZE is about $175 w/plan on AT&T, and the X1 will be around $700 retail in a few weeks (with coupons, etc.). Yikes, that’s not a marginal difference in price, is it? I’m not sure I can justify a 4x price difference for a phone that is about 1.5x as good. Or, can I? Well, it’s like buying clothing: I can spend $200 on a shirt or $10 on a shirt. They both cover my torso about as effectively, but which one do I want people to see me paired with? This goes back to the gadget-as-accessory frame.
6. Panels. I figured they would be a dead platform as soon as 09, but the new facebook panel could be a game-changer. It shows how Panels could be the equiv to iPhone apps! Will panels have market mojo? What incentives are Sony peddling for developers to get on board? What kind of penetration can panels have if limited to only 1 device? Very chicken/egg situation here, and kind of a risk for X1 owners if they are relying on panels to breathe life into WM6.1.
7. TouchFlo 3D on X1. If this really ends up being portable to the X1 with 100% functionality and no bugs, then the X1 ends up being the more flexible device of the two. But 100% compatibility seems to be a ways off still, for many good reasons. Conversely, it is highly unlikely for several reasons that the TP would ever get panels. Sure, they might be portable over to the TouchPro HD, but that’s not the TP/FUZE, is it?
8. Keyboards. I’ve read some horrific reviews of the X1 keyboard, but they’ve been scattered and not consistent. So, I guess I’ll have to wait to actually try one myself to see how bad it really is. I tested out the FUZE keyboard, and I know it gets rave reviews, but coming from my HTC S710/Vox, I found the lack of space between the keys troubling. I’m sure I’d get used to it, but it seems like the X1’s layout (with spaces between keys) is more like my S710’s layout, which I find quite comfortable to type on. I am quite concerned about the lack of tactile feedback on the X1 keyboard, though. If there’s no feedback, then what’s the point of a hardware keyboard? Again, reviews have not been satisfactory around this aspect of the X1, so I’ll have to wait to see for myself.
9. Touchiness. I found the FUZE to be fiddly with touch sensitivity. Too often, a swipe was interpreted as a select, which was quite annoying. I've read that the X1 has a better touch experience, but that will be something I'll have to xperience myself, I guess.
10. Screen rotation. OK, big minus for X1 to have no G-sensor, but big plus for X1 for its apparent "instant switch" technology between landscape and portrait modes! I've seen some videos and it's quite impressive in Opera. One of the reasons why I 'dread' to go to my slide-out keyboard on my S710 is due to the lag. It's just painful to wait. If there were no "wait tax" on using the slide-out keyboard, I might go to it more readily.
11. Dpad+ features. The FUZE has the circular zoom thang, and the X1 has the glidey thing. No idea which is preferable. Both are interesting in their own way.
So, this is where I am right now re: X1 v. FUZE. To be honest, I am kind of looking for excuses to cheap out and get the FUZE just so I'm not spending $700 on a friggin phone. But the thickness and weight are things that I'd have to adjust to.
Does anyone have any thoughts/comments/additions to this analysis?
Jon
[cross-posted on Xperia X1 and Raphael forums so I can get both viewpoints]

I too was stuck between the X1 and Touch Pro. But I think the X1 hideous. The specs are pretty much the same but you lose the G sensor and only gain .2in of screen. But the 3in screen is narrower then the TP so it looks smaller when your looking at the phone the in one hand. But they keyboard is what really killed it for me :-(.

I just returned my Xperia and should have my Fuze from Amazon tomorrow. I loved everything about Xperia except the buttons below the screen. I just couldn't accept that quality on a $700 phone. I got Fuze only as a short-term toy as it cost me only $100 after $25 rebate from Amazon. I plan to sell it as soon as I see something more impressive. Maybe N97, or an Android phone. Whatever it is, it should have 3G on AT&T as I am stuck with AT&T for 2-years.
My experience with Xperia in 2-weeks:
Tried all kinds of customizations from XDA including TF3D, spPanel skins, Youtube, XperiaTweeks, etc. In the end, I discovered Xperia out the box with just the following customizations makes it a beast of a phone if the front buttons don't bother you as much as they bothered me.
1. XperiaTweaks has to be the best. It lets you customize some little annoying things with Xperia like increasing font size, sorting contacts by FirstNames, default panel on startup
2. Blackstone Keyboard
3. Youtube installed as a panel
4. Facebook Panel
I was totally impressed by TouchFlow3D as a panel as it has a WOW factor to it. But, each day I found myself going back to the Sony Ericsson Panel that I customized with weather, e-mails, RSS feeds, calendar, etc. Eventually, I made that as the default panel to start by Xperia using XperiaTweaks. Eventually, I un-installed the TF3D's as the Landscape fix program I installed for TF3D seems to be causing problems with my phone when I slideout the keyboard.
Some issues (some minor) I had with Xperia.
1. I could not reconnect to the Bluetooth of my GPS unit in my car if I stepped away for a short time with my phone. This didn't happen with my W910 phone. To get the Bluetooth work I had to restart my Xperia and even the GPS unit all the time.
2. Build quality of the buttons below the screen.
3. Sometimes I found myself sliding out the keyboard as I was holding the bottom part of phone hard.
4. Hard to select menu's with finger. Ended up getting used to D-pad.
5. The Picture ID on my W910 shows a picture that covers almost half the screen and I can easily see while on Xperia the picture is about the size of a penny and is almost useless. The call logs also show the names so tiny and is almost impossible to go through the call logs while driving.

I would go for the Touch Pro

The best phones I have ever had were Sony Ericssons (T637, P910a) and I too lusted after an Xperia but...
1. SE is dying or dead already
2. SE and HTC are, reportedly, parting ways
3. There isn't and won't be enough units running the panels interface to make it attractive for developers to bring apps
So, if you spend the $ on the Xperia, you'll be sitting on the sidelines, watching windows mobile for VGA developers aping the cool apps coming for the iPhone and wishing that more than just a small percentage would work on your SE.
Just my $0.02.

TouchPro vs. X1
I too was lusting after the SE X1 after it was announced (about a year ago) and said "that is my next phone".
I read website after website with videos, reviews/previews, etc.. and I couldn't have been more excited for "my phone" to be released here in the states.
Well....it came time for a decision a few months ago and the X1 still wasn't widely available in the states so I waited....and waited. Delay after delay from SE and the comparisons for the TouchPro and X1 were starting to trickle out and they weren't looking good for the X1. Yeah, the panel interface was amazing if utilized proficiently but the interface was laggy. The phone was expensive and the keyboard was terrible.
I was coming from a Hermes (8525) so I was fairly pleased with my existing keyboard and once I saw the Sprint version of the TP I was hooked. The keyboard is brilliant. For someone who emails/txt dozens of times/day the new TPO keyboard is a HUGE time saver. Long gone are the days of softkey input for special commonly used characters "@", "(", ")", etc.. This just made for a more streamlined user experience. The X1 is restricted by having only four rows of keys. The same as my Hermes.
Yeah, the X1 has the panels and that gorgeous screen (and it is beautiful!) but with the exact same internals I see no real world benefit in owning one.
Just my opinion.
JC

I'll offer my insight point by point as I feel qualified to respond...
JonDeutsch said:
2. I have found the FUZE to be too heavy and bricky to be really pocket-friendly. This was a major disappointment when I checked it out at AT&T last week! I was all ready to buy the FUZE when I realized that it would take a serious adjustment to have that kind of weight and thickness in my pocket. It remains to be seen how I feel about the X1’s weight and thickness (since it's not released yet in the States). But, in terms of the specs published, the X1 looks to be about .5oz lighter than the FUZE. NOTE: The FUZE for some odd reason seems to be .5oz heavier than the Sprint Touch Pro and the HTC Touch Pro. No idea why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FUZE size is a bit awkward at first...I switched to it from an iPhone, but after about 3 days it was only natural. In a way, I always liked a bit larger / heavier phone because you know its there. Every smaller / skinnier phone i've had (compared to the fuze or 8125) I often felt naked with even when it was in pocket.
JonDeutsch said:
3. The X1 has more hard buttons on the front panel, and more easily pressed hard buttons on the front panel. I have heard serious complaints about the “up” arrow on the X1 d-pad, but I will have to see for myself if that is insurmountable. I have played with FUZE, and the front panel buttons are not confidence-inspiring. I feel like it’s a negotiation with each press of the dpad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fuze dpad is very awkward at first...but it becomes second nature in no time flat - i have no problem navigating in the dark at this point.
JonDeutsch said:
4. The absence of the g-sensor on the X1 is stunning, and quite disappointing. What a huge bummer. What the heck was Sony thinking? G-sensors = cool + fun. Xperia = cool+fun. What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bummer that its missing - but at the same time, theres no real item that the fuze is taking advantage of it with so far. beyond the wow factor of labyrinth for about 5 minutes....
JonDeutsch said:
5. The FUZE is about $175 w/plan on AT&T, and the X1 will be around $700 retail in a few weeks (with coupons, etc.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
damn thats expensive...
JonDeutsch said:
8. Keyboards. I’ve read some horrific reviews of the X1 keyboard, but they’ve been scattered and not consistent. So, I guess I’ll have to wait to actually try one myself to see how bad it really is. I tested out the FUZE keyboard, and I know it gets rave reviews, but coming from my HTC S710/Vox, I found the lack of space between the keys troubling. I’m sure I’d get used to it, but it seems like the X1’s layout (with spaces between keys) is more like my S710’s layout, which I find quite comfortable to type on. I am quite concerned about the lack of tactile feedback on the X1 keyboard, though. If there’s no feedback, then what’s the point of a hardware keyboard? Again, reviews have not been satisfactory around this aspect of the X1, so I’ll have to wait to see for myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The keyboard feels cramped at first, but you adjust in a very short amount of time....again, several days and you wont think twice of it...probably? lol
JonDeutsch said:
9. Touchiness. I found the FUZE to be fiddly with touch sensitivity. Too often, a swipe was interpreted as a select, which was quite annoying. I've read that the X1 has a better touch experience, but that will be something I'll have to xperience myself, I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the same problem with the stock rom...however, with tf3dconfig tweaks (or registry edits directly should you so choose) it responds MUCH nicer and I no longer run into these problems. There may also be a small degree of "self training" on this one.
JonDeutsch said:
11. Dpad+ features. The FUZE has the circular zoom thang, and the X1 has the glidey thing. No idea which is preferable. Both are interesting in their own way.
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Click to collapse
circle zoom is no iphone multitouch, but it works pretty damn well with opera in my experiences. Also nice for text size in messages etc.
I think from your feelings, you may be best off getting the fuze and using it for a while, and maybe picking up a used X1 down the line. That said, ive never even got to hold an X1...but i have trouble imagining its worth 2-4x the price of the fuze. But...if its really a fashion / toy thing to you - you could very well feel differently.
While some may argue you should have no initial complaints with a device - and that may be true, but it isnt the reality today with 99% of phones for 99% of people - its sort of expected you have some gripes with some aspects. That said, most of your feelings seem spot on with things that I initially pandered about but soon adjusted to. I was just happy to have service in my living and travelling area again (goddam iphone...)
I also think kitsVA, dgduris, and jcotterman all hit very VERY valid points on the software side of thigns, so I will not bother getting into that.
good luck in whatever your decision may be!

I went through this dilemma too. I calculated that I would save around $200 if I went for a used TP rather than a used xperia. With $150-200, you could get an unlimited data plan for a year, or buy a working GPS, etc. etc.
The touch pro isn't bad if you don't wear tight pants. I have a wallet which is much larger in dimension than my TP! I come from a very thin razr I once fit in my pocket and the change didn't both me.
Good luck with your choice!

*NEW PHONES* HTC Diamond 2 & Touch Pro 2 **PICTURES**

WOW BREAKING NEWS
Touch Pro 2 News From engadget.com (http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/16/htc-touch-pro2-is-awesome-in-ways-the-touch-pro-never-could-be/)
So, how do you make HTC's Touch Pro -- already near the top of the WInMo heap -- an even beefier device? For starters, you can throw out that nasty VGA screen of yesteryear and up it with a 3.6-inch 800 x 400 replacement. Next, add a dedicated touch-sensitive zoom slider that works overtime to take maximum advantage of said screen, then throw in a few key carryovers: 512MB of ROM, 288MB of RAM, microSD expansion, and a 3.2 megapixel cam. Meet the Touch Pro2, the official follow-up to HTC's popular series of QWERTY sliders that introduces so-called "Straight Talk" technology for "seamlessly" transitioning conversations between email, single-line calls, and party calls. It'll also automatically switch to the crazy high-performance, full-duplex speakerphone simply by flipping the phone over, so it's clear that this bad boy was meant for business. It'll launch early in the second quarter in parts of Asia and Europe with other "major global markets" following in early Summer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DETAILED INFORMATION HERE: http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=83956

I just wish it had tv-out or I'd get it (or the diamond2) I guess I'm the one who uses that feature a lot on my omnia.
Edit: My bad... It DOES have tv-out))

awesome..
now i know why peoples selling their phones
Support HTC

The TouchPro 2 seems more like the Tytn II replacement to me,
I LIKE.​

The touch pro is more business oriented. . . so it probably wont have alot of media features were hoping it has .

A dump promise
Hopefully, someone will soon get their hands on these units to dump the ROMs and port them to Touch Diamond and Touch Diamond Pro.

1-very nice but the lack of d-pad and other buttons is annoying as hell.
2-lets hope the fix the very very poor performance of the diamond this time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYimU-VHM&feature=related
3-also software,themes,apps development forums will be too segmented. diamond ,diamont2,tpro,tpro2, blackstone,x1 are all very similar phones(internally). is there a clean and logical way to combine them.
4-whats the code names of these two devices

very nice. Shame they wont work for more than about 3 minutes before something falls off/a random onboard chip of some random nature starts to malfunction.
HTC, design phones then get someone decent to manufacture them.... you cant manufature for toffe.

"...something falls off". Please explain. I've had the Diamond for 2/3 of a year now and nothing has "fallen off"....
In my opinion, the build quality of HTC products is impeccable.
Monty Burns said:
very nice. Shame they wont work for more than about 3 minutes before something falls off/a random onboard chip of some random nature starts to malfunction.
HTC, design phones then get someone decent to manufacture them.... you cant manufature for toffe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

My experience of HTC hardware is far from good. BlueAngel (dead speaker), two TyTN's, one TyTN II and now a TD - all and i mean ALL of them have had at least one warranty repair or replacement. Actually , thats a lie: TD was sent back for a full refund under UK consumer law as "Not Fit For Purpose" as at the time there was no way to play music without the famous skipping/pause issue.
Just fire up google and use terms like "HTC" "hardware" "fault" "Issue" and so on .... you'll soon see what a timebomb of a device you have.
My Toshiba G900 and now Omnia have restored my faith in Smartphones and there reliability.

thats odd....my TyTNII(Kaiser, from USA) has been nothing short of amazing, and it has taken its share of nasty falls!
anyone know what carrier in the U.S will be providing the TP2??
im praying its AT&T, Its almost time for an upgrade, and I think im in love

Perhaps you got some Gremlins
My HTC phones all work like they did on their first day. I didnt have any hardware Problems and the software problems where solved by this nice Community.
Ok, i hve to admit that HTC really doesnt care that much software-wise... I bet they wont release proper drivers for these devices either...
Thats no problem for me though, as i wont buy another arm or qualcom based Smartphone anyway. Im up for atom-powered voice capable MIDs now.

Hmmm. Quite fancy the Pro 2. Shame it doesn't have a slightly beefier processor though. I'm sure these will be replaced by Snapdragon or Tegra devices shortly after I buy one!

i opened a similar thread but it's closed cause i was to slow
now my question again
what's that "zoom bar" supposed to do

but if HTC devices are built so horribly, why use them over and over?

operative1 said:
i opened a similar thread but it's closed cause i was to slow
now my question again
what's that "zoom bar" supposed to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my guess its just the touchwheel from diamond and tpro. not that usuful if you ask me since they could have added more usfel buttons with dpad or remove it for the sake of bigger screen or just remove it to make the phone smaller.

Copy from Raphael Thread
My thoughts:
1. First thing I thought was: I wonder if there will be some way to buy this from AT&T without breaking my contract? I mean, what do they do for people who got a 2-year contract with the original iPhone, and then a year later they want the new iPhone?
2. Longer battery life and a bigger screen are very welcome.
3. I hope that keyboard is a mock-up. Also, I can't imagine using a non-Fuze keyboard, let alone one of those 3-row keyboards most phones have, but it's just way too convenient to have all those punctuation marks available top row.
4. I wonder when this phone will reach stateside.
5. I wonder why the phone's specs aren't improved?
6. I wonder why it's not all-black. It better just be a mockup.
7. Almost Touch HD-sized screen, and the TYTTN II tilt *drools*
But really, it took an entire year for the Touch Pro to come out in the states, so who is really banking on this thing coming out by Summer? And what will AT&T do when I'm willing to give them 300 more dollars for the Touch Pro II, and I still have a contract?
Sure, it's not the improvement we'd all have made. Not more RAM, not a better processor, or drivers... but it's still an improvement over the Touch Pro (unless that isn't a mockup keyboard, in which case I may cry over the colour scheme and the fact that there are LESS KEYS on that phone than the existing Touch Pro) and I'll take it. Plus, the front-facing D-Pad is a pain to use anyway that I just open it up and use my Keyboard D-Pad.

Good point...
drama2747 said:
but if HTC devices are built so horribly, why use them over and over?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When will we see some dedicated forums for these devices...? moderators...?

HANDS ON VIDEOS
I'm fallin' in love... no kiddin

good to see the phone in action...all though i was tempted to mute the sound lol

Why wont u b getting the Touch Pro II

Why wont u b getting the Touch Pro 2?
I put this in the general category because I wanted to here from all the non owners, users who are going to skip the TP2 as well as the owners who want to complain about the TP2.
I was excited about this phone but I hate to go with a device that does not have a navigation pad. I have issues daily where I tap the screen or drag the screen on my Fuze and do not get the desired result so then I make use of the dpad to do what I need to do with no further problem.
Is there a reason you are going to skip the TP2? Whats it missing for you or what have you chosen over the TP2?

the processor ! or lack of driver support there of.

Because i wanted to have a (relativley) decent camera. So I got the Acer M900 instead of which, i'm VERY happy with it.
(Oh in my experience, HTC's build quality is sh*t)

Acer does have a better camera and probably better drivers too. But when it comes o build quality I dis-agree with your fact. Acer phones usually have cheap plastic finish but HTC makes good casing almost in every phone model of theirs.. They're good at design or hire good designers IMHO.

You cannot disagree with my opinion or indeed my personal experience. You may indeed have a diferent opinion and experience but that does not mean that either of us are right or wrong.
An opinion is just that, a personal opinion.
An experience is fact but that does not mean you will suffer the same.
But, I do very much agree with your OPINION on the design, they are usualy well designed however, in my EXPERIENCE, they are built out of crap and made very poorly.

My biggest issue with the TP2 is the relatively slower processor and lack of a headphone jack. I know it's business phone and all, but still, when other touch screen phones are one-upping you in hardware...
The TD2 has the same issues, but it's cheaper, so the qualms are a bit easier to swallow. I'm gonna have to think carefully and wait and see how much AT&T charges for each.

better processor and wm 7 ... until then htc fuze for me.

I'll quote Anand here.
Anand said:
The second part isn’t what Nokia should be doing on its $500+ smartphone, what is inexcusable is the fact that Nokia is not using ARM’s latest and greatest Cortex A8 on such an expensive phone. It’s the equivalent of Dell shipping a high end PC with a Core 2 Duo instead of a Core i7; after a certain price point, the i7 is just expected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Up until this morning, I was 100% committed to getting a HTC Touch Pro 2 (Rhodium).
This afternoon I had a play with the new Toshiba TG01.
Now I'm 50:50 on the TP2 or the TG01.

Quite a few reasons. The first is simply cost -- I don't have a cheap upgrade option currently, and it sure isn't worth the asking price without a carrier subsidy.
Lack of a 3.5mm jack is a big deal for me. While I always intend to keep a seperate PMP (I have a Zune 80 right now and might snag the HD later this year), I want my next phone to at least be a competent media player when I don't have my Zune with me. This is simply impossible without a standard headphone jack, because I won't carry an adapter with me.
The biggest reason is probably the impending release of WM7. I expect 7 to be a BIG upgrade over 6 and really a game changer for the whole WM world. I don't want to be stuck with "old" WM once 7 releases. And if 7 isn't as revolutionary as I expect/hope, I'll seriously consider jumping ship.

typo said:
... the impending release of WM7. ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks mate, that made me cry

ZenithUK said:
Up until this morning, I was 100% committed to getting a HTC Touch Pro 2 (Rhodium).
This afternoon I had a play with the new Toshiba TG01.
Now I'm 50:50 on the TP2 or the TG01.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It matter of decide what you prefer:
Better processor or a nice phisycal keyboard...
Personally I´ll take the keyboard

orb3000 said:
..
Better processor or a...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
initialy i'd agree with you about keyboard v cpu however, you cannot compare processor Mhz across diferent manufacturers. The only test you can compare processors with (and actually indeed, entire devices) is with real world tests such as, opening a complex spreadsheet or running an emulator.
This is why all reviews run comparisons with user software running like Unreal Tournament for example or Call of Duty.
Numbers are an indicator, they are not the entire story.

Monty Burns said:
Because i wanted to have a (relativley) decent camera. So I got the Acer M900 instead of which, i'm VERY happy with it.
(Oh in my experience, HTC's build quality is sh*t)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats pretty nice that the biometric pad doubles as a navigation dpad! Does that work well?
Do you have any issues with the 128 RAM? The videos i have seen show that the screen is slow and a little less responsive. Is this your experiance? Thanks

No, quite the oposite.... its very fast and nippy device, certainly the fastest i've ever owned. Yes the memory numbers are a little low however, as long as you close any apps you dont really need open your fine. I often run Igo and either the FM player or Win Media Player and don't have any issues.
Be warned though, its not a small device. Its not Universal big but, you could easily use it to defend yourself
edit: Oh yeah, and some people have already learn't to edit the partition table which If I understand this correctly, means we will be shortly getting cooked roms that change the storage ratio - could be wrong on this though.

After looking at TPII I can't WOW. Its just another pocketpc with hardly any novelty to offer, Tilt form factor is what gives it an extra look otherwise its no better than TP IMHO

Some reports say the m900 has a 2.5mm jack and some say 3.5, can u say which is true?
So is the screen responsive? Do u have to tap something more than once and does the screen somtimes fail to recognize a gesture? Sorry to ask again but i wasnt sure to which part of my post u were responding to. Im thinking of ordering the m900 in the next few days.

I cant justify to myself paying that sort of money for something that is not all that different to previous htc keyboard offerings. I dont have a problem with the processor its just I am so very bored of wm 6.whatever. If wm7 ever arrives then it will be a different story.
In the meantime I am going to give android and the Hero a go...

jamespaulritter said:
Some reports say the m900 has a 2.5mm jack and some say 3.5, can u say which is true?
So is the screen responsive? Do u have to tap something more than once and does the screen somtimes fail to recognize a gesture? Sorry to ask again but i wasnt sure to which part of my post u were responding to. Im thinking of ordering the m900 in the next few days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has neither. Its a mini 5 pin usb so you need an adapter (£2 from ebay). The screen can be unresponsive at times but Acer are very aware of this and are working with us on www.4winmobile.com. We already know there is a new firmware released and are expecting it to appear on Acers website in the next week or two.
Rather than derail the thread further, it might be an idea to check out 4winmobile and go to the Acer/Eten area.

Thanks Monty

Reccomend a Phone thread

Hi folks, you know the drill, my current phone (an HTC Mogul) is getting past it's usefulness and once more I find myself on a hunt to find a phone that has the most of what I do want and the least of what I don't, in other words the best compremise between the device of my dreams and what's actually avaliable.
Further to this I am limited in funds so not only can I not go out and purchase a brand new top of the line model, the device I do end up getting will hopefully last me for a long time (or at least longer then the 1yr I got out of my Mogul).
Perhaps I should start by looking at why my current phone just doesn't do it for me anymore?
1) No wireless - Ever since I flashed it to 6.5 I have had no wifi.
2) No 3.5mm plug - The HTC proprieity adapter hardly works half the time either.
3) OS - 6.5 WiMo flashed is pretty unstable, I regularly have to reset the device because it locks up or just won't work.
4) QVGA - probably the best I can afford, but I do a lot of reading on this and a higher res would be better for my eyes.
5) CDMA - I really need a quadband simcard capable phone.
So what do I want?
1) Wifi, bluetooth, GPS
2) 2mp camera or better
3) 6.5 Wimo native, preferably with duel boot capibility
4) 3.5 or 2.5mm audio output, or HTCusb that actually works!
5) Keyboard if possible (I really like the qwerty thumboard on my Mogul)
6) WVGA or VGA would be nice, but it might be out of my price point.
7) GSM QUADBAND!
Any reccomendations of models would be nice, thankyou

Go for Rhodium!
Definitely the best hardware device out there
If want to spent less money you can try Rapahel or even less (if you find someone who want to sell) Universal

Thanks for the recc, I will check those two out

I agree with ORB you should go for a Rapahel because it has so many roms to flash and it is cheap compared to the latest devices .

DannyFenton said:
I agree with ORB you should go for a
Rapahel because it has so many roms to flash and it is cheap compared to the latest devices .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, looking at ebay, the Rhod looks like its about $100 more then the Raph
or $300 for the Touch2 and $210 for the Raph.
At those prices it seems like it would be better just to pay the difference?
Also no one will ship to New Zealand

Yes on that case better go for Rhodium
I have seen ebay sellers who ships to almost any part of the world.
Also have a look on marketplace section, you can find very good deals
Good luck,

UPDATE: I bought myself a HTC Rhodium, very happy with it.
Now, I want to buy my GF a new phone for her birthday. Currenty she is using my ****ty old Blue Angel with WiMo 6.1
She uses the phone everyday (carries it around in her bag), but the only thing she does on it is read. She sometimes sends text messages, but usually not. She hasn't really used any of its other features or installed her own programs or anything (she is a programmer, so she does have the skills to do so).
At the moment I'm tossing up between a HTC Diamond, Diamond 2, Touch HD and another Rhodium. I'm leaning more toward the Diamond1 though. We generally try to avoid spending lots and she's more then happy with the PDA2k so even the diamond is a big upgrade and isn't too expensive.
I use my Rhodium to read alot of comics, but at 480x640 the screen should be highres enough to be an improvement. The other reason I'm leaning toward the Diamond is because of it's small size, and easier for her to carry around.
So, my question: Is there anything wrong with the Diamond that I should consider, and are there any other devices with VGA or better resolution in a similar price range that I should take a look?
Also what is the difference between the Touch Pro and the Diamond (besides the keyboard)?

If you need keyboard go for Raphael, if you don´t need it go for Diamond 2, I buyed one in marketplace for 180US a few months ago.
Or take another Rhodium

Why the recommendations for Rapheal? I am ready to put mine through a wall. The keyboard has gone flaky in the last three months...(delete requires holding down, not just press, P has started to not work, space now triple spaces)
In addition the screen started to separate over the 'x' button about two months back, now I hve that leaky black spot you get when screens break. The control pad at bottom has started to have the plastic cover start to come up.
In the last month the phone has decided to start dropping calls and even losing towers completely. (I have not changed anything on phone in over 6 months) I have rebooted the phone at least 10 times in last three weeks because of screen starting lock up, non-responsive push buttons, and complete lost of tower without attempting to reaquire.
This phone is going tits-up recently and I have had it locked to Edge forever because it will not hold a 3G signal in a very large city.
Not a recommend from me.

Thanks for the reccomendatiom - and the non recccomendation ^_^;

(silly extra text because my message was too short)

Ok, at this stage I am leaning toward the HTC Touch. The touch is fatter, but it looks like it has a lot more memory which has surely got to result in a better user experiance. It's about the same price as a diamond as well - I just have to find someone on here to sell a raphael to me.

I have a moderately worn Tmo Touch Pro 2 I'm selling off on ebay later today. Only doing a 3 day auction starting at $0.99. If interested I'll post a link. Pics are great of the scratches so you can probably grab it for $125-$150.

a link sounds good

Willuknight said:
Ok, at this stage I am leaning toward the HTC Touch. The touch is fatter, but it looks like it has a lot more memory which has surely got to result in a better user experiance. It's about the same price as a diamond as well - I just have to find someone on here to sell a raphael to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh how I remember my HTC Touch days. That phone & the Mogul were a nightmare for many of us & we couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Willuknight said:
a link sounds good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200489715435&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

ScandaLeX said:
Oh how I remember my HTC Touch days. That phone & the Mogul were a nightmare for many of us & we couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What where the main issues you had with it?
I've just upgraded from my mogul to the touch2, and the main issue I had with the mogul was the low res and slow processor compared to the touch 2, but overall it was a good phone.

NEED ANDROID PHONE WITH Qwerty keyboard
I'm looking for a new phone to replace my aging G1 but I dont want to give up the real keyboard. The mytouch slide is nice but it's hardware isn't on par with nexus one or htc incredible. The new Samsung Galaxy S Pro with sprint seems promising but not so sure about community support. I love how with my G1 I have so many options, so many great ROMs from Cyanogen and others on XDA. I'm worried that If I go with a samsung I will have better hardware but very few choices when it comes to moded roms. Is there an alternative phone out there with hardware on par with the latest HTC phones that have a slide out keyboard. Any one care to offer thier opinions??

whats your budget?
android or wimo?

New slider coming out

This has been rumored for a while now, but this seems to be more concrete:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...android-phone-the-priv-will-launch-this-year/
BTW, this place has been completely dead for a few weeks now, and the last nightly is dated Sept 6. I tried several months back to start building my own ROM images, but before I got all the way there, someone else stepped up. Before you vanish completely, I might like to try this again, especially if someone can help me get started. I remember one file in particular that I don't know if I did correctly, perhaps it was "local.manifest", or something like that. If I can get running, with a bit of assistance, I can start putting up nightlies, if not nightly, at least at some interval.

I dunno, I kinda don't like the way the keyboard is. The keys seems too small. I'd like a keyboard in landscape mode.
Also, being by blackberry means rooting won't be as easy.

I couldn't agree more with you tpmjb about wanting a landscape keyboard phone, but i think this a big move for blackberry and warrants our support if we ever want to see another qwerty android device ever. The priv is getting allot of press and i think allot of people are excited about it. I also believe that the capacitative thingy for s6 was made because they heard about it ahead of time.

chuckiev79 said:
I couldn't agree more with you tpmjb about wanting a landscape keyboard phone, but i think this a big move for blackberry and warrants our support if we ever want to see another qwerty android device ever. The priv is getting allot of press and i think allot of people are excited about it. I also believe that the capacitative thingy for s6 was made because they heard about it ahead of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I changed my mind, I'm buying the Blackberry Priv. I figure it will be rooted before too long, and I'll probably get used to the keyboard. Also, this phone has severe problems with GPS, which I use to get around everywhere.

At $700, very few people will be purchasing a Priv. There will be no development community for the device.
There are plenty of people that want a keyboard, but that desire will not make hundreds of additional dollars magically materialize.
Furthermore, a $700 device should have 4GB and an 810 under the hood. The Priv forces compromise with 3 gigs and an 808.
QWERTY is dead.

No designated number row.... the main reason I chose the Relay over the Glide... well, that and lack of bluetooth phone calls in jb4.1+
I've been following the blackberry for a while and the rumors of them going android, really hoping somebody comes out with a horizontal slider.

Rumors say it has dual boot os. Android and bbos10

orange808 said:
At $700, very few people will be purchasing a Priv. There will be no development community for the device.
There are plenty of people that want a keyboard, but that desire will not make hundreds of additional dollars magically materialize.
Furthermore, a $700 device should have 4GB and an 810 under the hood. The Priv forces compromise with 3 gigs and an 808.
QWERTY is dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you buy a Samsung Galaxy S6, you can take advantage of certain economies of massive scale. If you choose a Priv, the economies of scale aren't the same. And so you won't get the same value for money.
Still, the price of the Priv will fall over time.
Plus, I suspect that, six months or a year after its release, it'll be possible to buy a used or refurbished Priv for far less than $700. Then you can use your Priv with a deep-discount carrier — a carrier which doesn't offer handset subsidies, but which offers ultra-cheap plans.
Alternatively, if you're with a carrier which offers handset subsidies, you may be able to sign a long-term contract and buy a heavily-discounted Priv. You can then pay your carrier back over time.

Looks cool but its t9 not qwerty
http://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_w2016_highend_clamshell_gets_official_in_china-news-15129.php

orange808 said:
At $700, very few people will be purchasing a Priv. There will be no development community for the device.
There are plenty of people that want a keyboard, but that desire will not make hundreds of additional dollars magically materialize.
Furthermore, a $700 device should have 4GB and an 810 under the hood. The Priv forces compromise with 3 gigs and an 808.
QWERTY is dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually SD808 is atleast as good as SD810 or even better. SD810 is thorttling too much and it is not stable in every day use. Take a look at here: Thermal Throttling – Which SOC’s are the Worst Offenders.
Qwerty sliders are dying but you have to be creative. I modded my own qwerty slider from Xiaomi Mi4C and iPhone 6 bluetooth keyboard case: Qwerty Keyboard Slider [DIY]

phred14 said:
This has been rumored for a while now, but this seems to be more concrete:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...android-phone-the-priv-will-launch-this-year/
BTW, this place has been completely dead for a few weeks now, and the last nightly is dated Sept 6. I tried several months back to start building my own ROM images, but before I got all the way there, someone else stepped up. Before you vanish completely, I might like to try this again, especially if someone can help me get started. I remember one file in particular that I don't know if I did correctly, perhaps it was "local.manifest", or something like that. If I can get running, with a bit of assistance, I can start putting up nightlies, if not nightly, at least at some interval.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know why they even came out with Priv cause there was already Q5 & Q10...and on top of that most big shot Companies think people (Or everyone is a Text-Crazed Teenager) only use phones for texting and emails... ... ...those are pretty much the same and most simplistic things people will do with a phone besides Facebook... BLACKBERRY, MOTOROLA, SAMSUNG...I use my Relay at one point to replace my Computer (Dell D800 which start to run at 600MHz and 1GB RAM)...Stop with this Marketing Target business.
We the customer aren't Programmers or Teenagers, we don't need an iPhone or Phones that match with what we wear (Motorola)...we need Convenience...hence why you -blackberry- lost the market cause you keep pushing out small screen -but bigger than Nokia- phones that didn't really improve much (NO NUMROW, worst is the Sony Xperia sk17 (Mini Pro, 3") and sk16 (Pro, 3.7"), both have the exact same keyboard...3.7" and they didn't put Numrow or Okay Button). Had they had the size of a S3 or a 4" screen-phone-size with the Keyboard or not make the mistake like Symbian -Nokia E6, Touch with Buttons on Screen design for DPAD- they couldn't lose there market, but Priv is show us how Blackberry needs to let go or improve its model, not make more nostalgia (I don't know if that is right) while thinking its the big screen that everyone loves (If iPod had a Stylus instead of Touch, people would look at that like its a Color Palm Pilot...as where touch is better based how you control it).
Me when I saw Passport and Priv, I laughed my butt off, only Trenders will buy. I was even thinking Blackberry was going to actually come out with a Landscape Slider at one point and make a video with the Song "I want to know that, want to know that, will you Love me Again" playing...but snap Blackberry, Storm (My Twin Sister first Bought it, I wasn't even into Phones until 2012...born 1992 and got a Relay in 2015...made in 2012) was fail for me cause of putting 1 clicker in the Center of phone instead of 9-13 or 16-20 (Top/Mid/Bottom+Left/Center/Right to Between Center/Corner=4 or to Quarter of Size or to Fifth of Size or even put more at the bottom for the keyboard)...you guys should have built a fake plastic prototype of that feature (1 Hard Clicker to 13 Mid-Soft Clickers unless the 1 made it seem hard) cause had it not failed it would have been like iPhone 6 pressure screen...
Blackberry thinks that only 1 Phone is the Best, but Truly they Grew when you went from Pearl to Bold, etc and bold to Q5/10 (Had they made Torch like that), but Priv or Private -as I call it if it becomes Landscape Slider then Lieutenant and Colonel- is why Blackberry shouldn't design Hardware Form.
They are 100% correct about software cause I can Play PSP and Edit Word Docs on my Android and Hackers figured out a way to play all PS1 on PSP, but Sony's Devs couldn't (Embarrassing).
The only reason I have a PC is literally cause I'm doing online schooling and the website needs Internet Explorer or Google Chrome or else the interaction might slip up on a Mobile Device...other than that the only reason I bought a Vostro 14 is because it can play PS3 equivalent games (Skyrim, Saints Row, etc)...so I don't need a PC or the Lastest Android (GingerBread was my World and now JellyBean, in fact an LG Ahola has a keyboard with Prediction, where as my Relay doesn't...Relay is 4.1.2 and LG Ahola is 2.1 with 600Mhz CPU & 256MB RAM...it really depends on how you design it...even Motorola Defy Pro had it too...also Relay doesn't have a OKAY Button so if I highlight/select text (Shift+Left/Right) with Keyboard and touch to use Copy/Cut, the selected text disappears)
And funny thing today -Octo-core is 2xQuad-core CPU with 4 low & 4 high power- same thing I said ever since I got my first Phone -A Nokia 5000-6000series- I need something for note taking and I'm pretty sure that doesn't require a very fast Computer or computer at all (Cause now Tech is getting better)...if anyone is smart they stop with Big Screens and go to built-in Project-on-to-screen-like-a-flashlight or Project-to-a-screen-via-cable...cause I once saw a Phone design as Processor that goes into a Tablet...
There are so many things and ways of doing any thing, but Blackberry choose Portrait Slider...over Landscape and no alternative...when they've been using Landscape the Whole time (I know this contradicts before, but not increasing the Screen Size is what was Blackberry's Downfall)...In fact I just realize when has Portrait been used in an electronic besides Reading Text Material (Like on actual Paper) cause Televisions and Computers don't have Portrait Screens, I would use Word Doc and Landscape Shaped Window even if page is Portrait and the thing I see most people use big scr.een phones for is Videos...in Landscape...I read my Comics in Landscape (Cause Portrait is small).
Portrait is for the Quick and Easy or Simple Stuff (1-Hand)...Landscape is for 2 Handers and yet people who design for Portrait still put the things you need to Touch at the Top of the Screen...I only need Time at Top if I need to see it at the Lock Screen not when I am using the Phone.
Sorry for variety of errors of Grammar, Punctuation, Spelling, Sentence Structure, dotting my i's and crossing my t's (Joking on the last part). I didn't proofread much.
Best Keyboard was Motorola Droid 3 and LG C710 Aloha, but sadly there Hardware wasn't good.

Flash-A-Holic said:
Actually SD808 is atleast as good as SD810 or even better. SD810 is thorttling too much and it is not stable in every day use. Take a look at here: Thermal Throttling – Which SOC’s are the Worst Offenders.
Qwerty sliders are dying but you have to be creative. I modded my own qwerty slider from Xiaomi Mi4C and iPhone 6 bluetooth keyboard case: Qwerty Keyboard Slider [DIY]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate those keys, though. That's the same bluetooth case available on every modern phone. They change the brands a million times on Amazon, but it's the same case. Price varies wildly too.
Keys are wayyyyyy too close together. It's somehow faster to type each letter on a touch screen.

TPMJB said:
I hate those keys, though. That's the same bluetooth case available on every modern phone. They change the brands a million times on Amazon, but it's the same case. Price varies wildly too.
Keys are wayyyyyy too close together. It's somehow faster to type each letter on a touch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not that bad. There is shaped buttons for better touch in my keyboard. I have seen different keyboard which are worse.

Flash-A-Holic said:
It is not that bad. There is shaped buttons for better touch in my keyboard. I have seen different keyboard which are worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh weird, where'd you get a 5 row case? I thought it was the ****ty 4 row case that's on Amazon, from the thumbnail on your video. I might just check it out
Edit: Wow, it looks exactly like my relay keyboard! I'm definitely interested! Every Amazon link I see is that awful 4 row keyboard.
...but not for $72 eee gad

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2016/12/blackberry-dtek70-mercury-leaked/
It looks like BB is about to release another QWERTY phone. But the times of slider keyboards are gone.

Guys... prepare your butts, the holy grail:
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-01/graalphone-4-in-1-notebook-smartphone-tablet-3d-kamera/
The GraalPhone!!! Next year in Europe and USA!!

Had my hopes up then...but look at the size of it! It's massive