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Hi
I wanted to know what is the most stable CPU on a Pocet PC right now and why, what makes a processor better than the next ? are Intel processors better than samsung, TI, Freescale ??
what are the categories of all these processors ?
and on a pricing level which processors are value for money ?
which are expensive for something and which are expensive for nothing ?
this has been working on my mind for some time to analyse all the processors and identify the truth behind Pocket PC CPU's
can anyone please help to answer these questions.
regards
reo
The differences are very small, unlike with, say, 486 or Pentium clones 10-12 years ago. That is, there aren't known problems with Samsung / TI CPU's and there aren't "clearly the best" CPU's.
hi
what do you think about Freescale CPU ?
and when it comes to CPU, do you think that mayb certain types are more stable than others ?
Stability = litlle or no freezing up, compatibilty, works well with WM OS, aplications funtioanlity, and just general operation you no that sense that you can rely on the product to function properly.
reo
reo said:
hi
what do you think about Freescale CPU ?
and when it comes to CPU, do you think that mayb certain types are more stable than others ?
Stability = litlle or no freezing up, compatibilty, works well with WM OS, aplications funtioanlity, and just general operation you no that sense that you can rely on the product to function properly.
reo
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Dunno much about the practical stability & compatibility issues of the new Freescale CPU, it's so new to the market (and iDo devices are so few).
In general, I don't think any current (again, I don't speak for Freescale) CPU's have any stability or other issues. Samsung CPU's, in the past (see for example the flash ROM problems of the iPAQ 1930 / 1940) had some problems; hope they're fixed now.
hi
is there any way to benchmark the CPU's ? is there any software that i can use. i would like to conduct a test to make a comparison.
about the freescale, any reviews about this CPU ?
regards
reo
reo said:
hi
is there any way to benchmark the CPU's ? is there any software that i can use. i would like to conduct a test to make a comparison.
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Spb Benchmark, for example. However, benchmark results are pretty useless. For example, the 195 MHz TI CPU's are MUCH better than what one would think based on the benchmark results
about the freescale, any reviews about this CPU ?
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Googled around; haven't found much.
I will keep searching for more details on freescale.
Do you think there is mayb factory benchmark programs then we can mayb get accurate results ?
reo
reo said:
I will keep searching for more details on freescale.
Do you think there is mayb factory benchmark programs then we can mayb get accurate results ?
reo
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In general, I wouldn't depend on benchmark results. For example, the TI CPU-based devices are far faster than one would think based on the benchmark results.
I have read about Processors from Intel called Monahans, i believe it is the latest CPU.
Have you worked with a handheld device running this CPU ?
could you give us some info on the Manahans and Boulverde ?
try this one.... I got it from buzz website....
Generally, TI and Samsung processors usually are more performant than Intel with the same MHz rate (iirc about 20%).
However, processor performance is not everything. E.g. the memory access is very different on WM5 devices. Or graphic performance.
And don't forget many PPC applications are quite spartanic - you don't need lots of CPU power to add a new contact or write a document in that better notepad called "Word mobile". Memory (card) access is more interesting there. But you'll probably notice a difference e.g. in navigation, games, or multimedia.
I already posted this in the Nexus dev forum, and I hate to clutter the boards, but I know that there are a bunch of talented devs here that may not see it on those forums. If we can bust the 30fps cap for good, and get the GPU overclocked, then we could see some serious gaming performance out of our Snapdragon devices.
I'm sure we all heard about being able to overclock the GPU on some of the old MSM devices, but the Snapdragon handles the graphics chip in a different way. The goal of this thread is to try and overclock the GPU on Snapdragon devices as well.
There is nothing GPU related in acpuclock-scorpion.c (the Snapdragon cpu clock settings) at least for setting gpu clock speed as far as I can tell.
In board-mahimahi.c (Nexus board file) and board-supersonic.c (Evo board file) there is some kgsl init code, but so far as I can tell it isn't setting the clock there, instead it seems to be pointing to PWR_RAIL_GRP_CLK to set the clock in both devices. It defines the variable in each of those files but I'm not sure where that variable is set, since it doesn't seem to be in any of the other board files as far as I can tell. I could be completely off here too though.
In drivers/video/msm/gpu/kgsl/kgsl.c there is a method called kgsl_clk_enable that seems to be called whenever the GPU is enabled. It looks like this:
Code:
/* the hw and clk enable/disable funcs must be either called from softirq or
* with mutex held */
static void kgsl_clk_enable(void)
{
//clk_set_rate(kgsl_driver.ebi1_clk, 128000000);
clk_set_rate(kgsl_driver.ebi1_clk, 245000000); // Looks like it sets the GPU clock, right? Wrong.
clk_enable(kgsl_driver.imem_clk); // Enable the clock
clk_enable(kgsl_driver.grp_clk); // Enable another clock, but why?
}
The line that's been commented out is the original value, I replaced it with my value on the line below it in a failed attempt to overclock it. Probably a stupid effort on my part, I doubt it's that simple, but it was worth a shot. The comments at the end of the line are also my additions.
According to the clk.h files in the standard linux kernel, clk_set_rate is obviously a method to set the clock rate. The first variable is a struct that tells it which clock to set, and the second variable is a long value that is the rate you want it set at. Is it setting the right clock there for Snapdragon chips? Or is it only the clock for older chips?
I'm in way over my head with this source, I'm but a lowly Java dev, but I really wanna solve this. Can anyone with a little more experience than me throw in a little more info? Sorry if it doesn't make much sense, if it isn't clear just ask me & I'll try to explain a little more.
Regards,
Jesse C.
EDIT: Okay I did a little more digging and those kgsl settings should work for QSD8x50 chips. In the config file, under Drivers, Graphics Support, it allows you to enable 3D accelleration for QSD8x50 & MSM7x27 chips. The tag for that is CONFIG_MSM_KGSL_MMU. If you check in kgsl.c it checks to see if that is enabled in the config, and if it is then it compiles and uses kgsl.c & all of the kgsl code. That tells me that the clock is either not being set, or the wrong clock is being set. I'm adding some debug code right now so I can see in dmesg what code is actually being run.
Dude I have no idea how to do this but bump and best of luck
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Isn't this Helping ? http://androidhtc.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=androidhtc/kernel.git;a=blobdiff;f=arch/arm/mach-msm/clock-7x00.c;h=ef178abfcd46cf78dd47962d75298691f887ebf2;hp=d68fea09d1996daeff99365ced9785d65b1cb001;hb=23ff83048726252bc785699fc749a3e364a3bdb0;hpb=110e73c591db3fd23d8558659f8a6a0dfe5ba912
It looks like here he sets the clock writel(grp,MSM_CLK_CTL_BASE+0x84); 0x84
And here is the Orginal topic http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=697673..
fstluxe said:
Isn't this Helping ? http://androidhtc.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=androidhtc/kernel.git;a=blobdiff;f=arch/arm/mach-msm/clock-7x00.c;h=ef178abfcd46cf78dd47962d75298691f887ebf2;hp=d68fea09d1996daeff99365ced9785d65b1cb001;hb=23ff83048726252bc785699fc749a3e364a3bdb0;hpb=110e73c591db3fd23d8558659f8a6a0dfe5ba912
It looks like here he sets the clock writel(grp,MSM_CLK_CTL_BASE+0x84); 0x84
And here is the Orginal topic http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=697673..
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Yeah I saw that, but that won't work for us, because it is for one of the old MSM7500 chips instead of the new QSD chips we have in Snapdragon devices.
I am working on a few things now and I recommend you check the Nexus forum since that thread is a lot more active.
Geniusdog254 said:
Yeah I saw that, but that won't work for us, because it is for one of the old MSM7500 chips instead of the new QSD chips we have in Snapdragon devices.
I am working on a few things now and I recommend you check the Nexus forum since that thread is a lot more active.
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okey, But as far as I know that code is not standard... Becouse the Vugue msm7500 device is originally WM device.. so the Smart dzo managed this custom code.
I wil follow the nexus form .. This is Damn interesting !
i wish you guys the best of luck..wish i could help..i love xda..lol
I'm going to bump this, would be nice if more people were working on this.
Man... I absolutely love my phone. It really sux that this even needs to be asked. This device is so much more capable and I cannot understand why HTC would cripple it so badly. Look at the Samsung galaxy s or the Droid x. Or even a more similar phone like the nexus or incredible. They all stomp this phone when it comes to anything graphics wise even if it is just swiping home screens. It makes me sad. Lol
I love how it makes you sad, but you still lol. Lol (correctly placed)
This is big but first let's get a true cap fix!
Sent from my Evo 4G
How is there such little interest in this subject? This intergrated gpu will probably overclock like a beast... and maybe we can get actual fps.
jigglywiggly said:
How is there such little interest in this subject? This intergrated gpu will probably overclock like a beast... and maybe we can get actual fps.
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I'm thinking this is also one of those things awaiting source. Even the overclocked kernals make my phone reset so I'm waiting for a more stable release myself. Since you're still posting here does that mean you decided to keep your evo?
psych2l said:
I'm thinking this is also one of those things awaiting source. Even the overclocked kernals make my phone reset so I'm waiting for a more stable release myself. Since you're still posting here does that mean you decided to keep your evo?
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I don't know, yet I am in deep havoc lol. I activated my phone on the 20th. I have till 13th of July to pay my bill, so don't know.
I mean the locked bootloader of the Droid X is kind of lame. Also on the Evo, I have a 10$ discount because of the IO conference... unlimited texts too, and I bought two batteries for it with a charger(for 10$ lol, and they actually last a long time 1500ma, I put the 2 extras in my wallet)
Also I think I can upgrade my phone right away already if I read things right, so if Sprint gets an awesome phone I can upgrade to that whenever.
Verizon is more expensive, but I like how they let me do a 1 year contract. The Droid X is also nicer, I mean it has a better camera, and the mic quality when taking videos isn't piss, hopefully someone fixes that. It also has a real graphics card.
So yeah, it's hard to decide. A better phone, vs saving me some money. Though I plan to attend the IO conference once again. I'm still porting my distrubuted prime client onto Android, hopefully it will be high performance. So it's not like I just go there for a phone ^^. Hell I didn't even know about the phones till they said "Where do you want the Droid delivered" I lol'd. Though my time is limited, summer classes at UC Berkeley are tough : /
jigglywiggly said:
How is there such little interest in this subject? This intergrated gpu will probably overclock like a beast... and maybe we can get actual fps.
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Yep, looks like til we get the kernel in our hands they're tied.
Also what's the point of overclocking if their is still a limit on FPS..
Eventually this will be the next thing on our todo list
some of the source for the OpenGL ES GPU core was announced as being released today
Qualcomm releases open-source 3D Snapdragon driver
http://www.androidcentral.com/qualcomm-releases-open-source-3d-snapdragon-driver
havent looked at it yet, but im sure in the very least this should at least help shed some more light on overclocking the GPU and add another piece to the puzzle!
git location -
https://www.codeaurora.org/gitweb/q...b819424af4be;hb=refs/heads/android-msm-2.6.32
topdnbass said:
Yep, looks like til we get the kernel in our hands they're tied.
Also what's the point of overclocking if their is still a limit on FPS..
Eventually this will be the next thing on our todo list
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There isn't really a fps cap with the novatek kernel hack. It made the display much smoother for me and I am using it on EvolutionX. So beast.
Good news about the drivers, maybe we can actually see some overclocking now.
I want this to happen!
Nova runs pretty well on the Evo. Gameloft updated it recently.
I would just like for iphone ports to run well.
I hear the Palm Pixi has the same GPU. It is clocked at 190mhz. What about the Evo?
patelkedar91 said:
I hear the Palm Pixi has the same GPU. It is clocked at 190mhz. What about the Evo?
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The Pixi doesn't have the same GPU, it has one of the low/mid-range MSM7227 (I think thats the model?) chips. It's similar as it's one of Qualcomms latest gen chips, but it is NOT a Snapdragon so it's different.
Also, the Snapdragon GPU's on HTC devices are clocked as follows:
GRP_CLK: The actual graphics clock, 256mhz
IMEM_CLK: The gpu memory clock, 256mhz
EBI1_CLK: As best I can tell, the bus that the GPU is on is EBI1, this is the clock for it, 128mhz
If you want more info, look here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=710850 since that thread is a lot more active, but please don't clutter it, there's actual devving going on there
Thanks for the info. I just wonder how they're going to get 3d games to work on the Pixi then... weird.
It was announced that the Pixi would get 3d gaming with the 1.4.5 update.
Much better (Y)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/and...ck-overclocking-tuning-snapdragon-s1-t2883708
Hi guys!
We've all been hearing all this stuff about dual-core CPUs like Qualcomm's QSD8672 @1,5GHz,or the single-core OMAP 4xxx @2GHz etc,right?The question is,will we see those devices soon enough?I mean,if they come out some time around christmas it's worth waiting(although they may cost something too much).However all the new devices that we see coming out,like HTC Ace or Schubert,have the well-known Snapdragon QSD8250/8650 @1GHz,with its crappy GPU and its not so powerful CPU(compared to Samsung's Hummingbird).Any clues yet on when we'll see those devices that will change what high-end means?
My guess (which is based solely on a hunch) is that that such devices would be announced together with Android 3.0, so that companies can advertise it as 'the next generation'.
Well,although not based on facts,your hunch gives a pretty possible image of how things will work...
ive just realised something. halo ce's minimum requirements are 800mhz processor and geforce 2 gtx and 256mb of ram. a lot of phones have more processing power than that (im mainly thinking about tegra 2 phones like the atrix)
So aside from the direct x issue would it be possible to port halo ce onto android?
thre3aces said:
ive just realised something. halo ce's minimum requirements are 800mhz processor and geforce 2 gtx and 256mb of ram. a lot of phones have more processing power than that (im mainly thinking about tegra 2 phones like the atrix)
So aside from the direct x issue would it be possible to port halo ce onto android?
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thre3aces said:
...aside from the direct x issue...
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That is kind of a big issue, but maybe. It would have to run as a native application, and it would need to be ported to run on openglES, It would also involve a lot of refactoring to make a java-based interface to the game.
Possible... maybe with the source code, and some talented devs.
Not likely to be coming soon, and then there is the whole IP issue on top of the difficulty of the porting... I know I value my sanity too much to work on such a project.
Not likely. You may think that our current processors are more powerful, but that's not necessarily true. Watt for watt they are, but those non mobile x86 processors run many more instructions than these mobile chips. Also porting a game in x86 to ARM is a massive undertaking, not really worth it.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA App
ive recently started a thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1195712
wouldnt this help if the interface is java-based?
Yay I have a atrix
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
This is relevant to my interests. I was wondering why a Diablo 2 style game couldn't be tried. I know my phone far overpowers my old pc. Lol
There are two main technological hurdles to overcomes when porting games from consoles/PC to a mobile platform are:
1. CPU Performance
Just because a ARM CPU has a higher clock-rate than a non-low-power CPU doesn't mean that it is more powerful. ARM is a RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computing) CPU which means that it is ideal for low-power limited memory devices. However some operations that could be completed in one clock-cycle on an X86 CPU may take two or more clock-cycles an ARM CPU.
Even when comparing ARM CPUs to RISC PPC CPUs included in game consoles, the PPC CPUs tend to implement optimisations that aren't available in mobile ARM CPUs.
2. Graphics
As previously mentioned the main problem is that console and PC games are all developed with OpenGL (or possibly DirectX) not OpenGL ES. Whilst OpenGL ES 2.0 does have support for programmable shaders it's still very limiting compared to what can be achieved with OpenGL (even old versions).
Other Issues
There are also other issues due to the limited (or different) input mechanisms available to mobile device. The smaller physically sized screens are also potentially a issue even if resolutions are similar.
yea ive taken that into account and i know that arm CPUs are slower than an intel/amd counterpart despite higher clock speed. but surely a 1ghz dual core arm cortex a8 is faster than a 800mhz intel cpu.
the open gl thing was something i completely forgot about and know that you mention it i think the whole idea may not be possible. BUT i found this on wiki "PowerVR's Series5 SGX series features pixel, vertex, and geometry shader hardware, supporting OpenGL 2.0 and DirectX 10.1 Shader Model 4.1".
maybe it is still possible.
the screen size is another big issue. but maybe it will be ok on a tablet like the zoom.
We need to start looking into this again
Qualcomm will be releasing the snapdragon 810 soon it supports direct X, is x64, and has 2.7+ghz I think porting pc games is becoming much more of a reality and I would love for someone to give me a reason ditch my pc for gaming
I'd hate to re revive but since android practically is Linux, couldn't we focus on wine for android? That would not only allow people to install direct x in the first place on android phones and tabs but also open up many many possibilities such as a PC version of steam for android. A fun way of this could be taking advantage of Samsung's multi window support. But yes there is no halo for android before wine. Once wine is existant there will be PC on android. And Gabe's 3 will be comfirmed.
I have DREAMED of Halo in my pocket, and this is why I started developing. I thought I could put in the hours to at least get it off to a good start and get people involved. Here are the main issues, and the reasons that I (and I bet any others who have tried) eventually gave up.
It's been pointed out the difference in processing and graphics. X86 processors just run many more instructions than mobile processors. Mobile processors are catching up, and have been more powerful for a long time, but even if one runs a comparitively adequate number of instructions it still communicates differently with graphics processors and ram etc. This alone is intimidating because means that the entire game would have to be redone from scratch and the assets either stolen (yikes) or a partnership arranged with Microsoft.
Enter Microsoft. I love ole Mikey Soft I do, but they are defensive about their Halo. They recently made it almost impossible to install a fan project rework of Halo 1 CE. Any attempts to port to Android would be met with similar treatment. *Cough* they don't trust fans, but they gave Master Chief to 343, killed Cortana, and then made her evil.* That was a long cough. In their defense they have probably not pursued this because of the last point here: porr end product = poor user experience.
So processor, graphics, Mike, and finally porting itself. Borderlands 2 was recently ported onto an arm (mobile) processor. I bought a PS Vita+BL2 bundle specifically to see if I could learn anything about porting other pc games, like Halo. If you've played it you know that it is AWESOME, but has a great deal of glitches, frame rate drops, and even later loading textures than the PC/console version. To be fair I'm SHOCKED that BL2 and all its dlc run as well as it does on Vita. Bravo yo!
My conclusion was that it would have to be completely remade which would require using assets from a zealously guarded IP, and if a partnership was struck the final product would likely be extremely hard to optimize leaving all of us nostalgic fans with dissapointment as we are trying to launch each other to the top of blood gulch but run into such low fps that we can't coordinate the required wart hoggery. This is also why there are several Halo-ish games on Android. It's tough to Port, but much easier to imitate. Sad pandasaurus.
sorry to revive an older thread but heres an apk. i found however its in Spanish if someone can change the language it would be great.
I dont understand much about the architecture of software, im asking this because i dont get it, why the processors of our devices cant understand the new kernel and the instructions of WP8. in my head, its exacly the same saying that our pc desktops processors couldnt run the new Windows 8. i would like to know what are the barriers in this case. So guys, what they would be in your opinion?
This was posted by a dude on Reddit.
Disclaimer: I work at Microsoft. But not on Windows Phone.
Windows Phone 7 was built on top of Windows CE kernel (the same as Windows Mobile, and for those who are young enough to remember, Pocket PC and Windows CE Handhelds - this was in 1997).
Windows Phone 8 is moving to NT kernel, the same one as your desktop operating system is using. NT kernel requires radically different hardware - specificaly, TLB mappings in pre-v7 ARM CPU contained logical addresses and this does not work very well on symmetric multiprocessor OS.
So older ARM CPUs did not work with NT kernel, and move to the different OS kernel required radical redesign of the OS. Also, of course the desktop/server OS kernel requires significantly more RAM.
With the large generational shifts it is not uncommon for OS to lose compatibility with old software. These shifts do not happen very often, but they do happen.
For example, Windows NT did not support PCs with 286 CPUs (which were rather common when it shipped), or with less than 12MB RAM (something that is easily upgradeable on a PC, but much more difficult with the phone). Similarly, Windows NT 3.5 dropped support for 386 family entirely.
For Microsoft to have, as you call it, "foresight", it would probably have to drop Windows Phone 7 altogether and go to NT-kernel based solution. It would not have made Phone 8 to appear any faster, however - it would just have lost 2 years.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/vdjwe/designed_to_fail_all_windows_phone_7_handsets/c53rh01
I think that answers your question.
Beautifuly!!! Thanks!!
m125 said:
This was posted by a dude on Reddit.
I think that answers your question.
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This answer is a complete bull****! MS already run NT kernel on the arm cpus for a years! This guy is referred to the "desktop" kernel but of course Apollo/WinRT/ (whatever the MS ****heads will call it in the future) has a different (from the desktop OS-es) kernel.
What the "older arm cpu" he's mentioned about??? Nokia Lumia 900 has Qualcomm APQ8055 Snapdragon cpu (google or wiki for that). What the hell "pre-arm"???
Sorry, it's not an explanation, just a stupid bull**** from ignoramus. He definitely needs a "radical redesign" of his brain
Oh c'mon, if our CPUs were the same old Qualcomms from Android 1.6 days I would believe it, but they are last-gen Snapdragons, goddamit!
I'm pretty sure Microsoft could support it as easy as adding two drivers, but it won't. Specially since all phones are the exact same hardware, with WP7.
The point about TLB mappings might be valid... if it weren't for the fact that these are all single-CPU, single-core processors (in WP7 devices). There's no need for a kernel to support SMP. In fact, you don't *want* a SMP kernel on such a processor; there are performance optimizations you can make for single-hardware-thead systems.
Historically, Microsoft has actually shipped two copies (per architecture) of the NT kernel on their desktop OS install media, one for SMP and one for single-core. The installer would use the correct one for the hardware. There is no technical reason that they couldn't do similar with WP8, shipping one NT kernel for single-core phones (which would be able to run on ARM v6) and one for multi-core (which would require ARM v7).
As for the RAM issue, that's a red herring. The RAM requirements of a basic MinWin system are far below the half-gig of WP7 devices. Even adding the phone's extra libraries and user interface, it should still be possible to implement msot if not all of the software features of WP8 while leaving a comfortable overhead for running and app or two at a time (that being all that WP7 officially allows anyhow).
@sensboston: The first that I'd heard of Microsoft running NT on ARM was 2010, when multi-core ARM v7 was already available.
Actually, I agree that the guy doesn't seem to know what he's talking about; according to Wikipedia (unreliable but in this case I see no reason to expect incorrectness), the Snapdragon processors use the ARM v7 instruction set anyhow.
@GoodDayToDie, last two days I've heard a lot of very different (but all BS and incompetent) explanations from MS employees... Seems like guys in marketing department don't have enough engineering knowledge, and can't announce any realistic-looking reason. But may be they don't have to: for general public some unknown "martian" words like "TLB mapping", "GDT and IDT" etc. sounds very "reasonable"
guilhermedsx said:
Oh c'mon, if our CPUs were the same old Qualcomms from Android 1.6 days I would believe it, but they are last-gen Snapdragons, goddamit!
I'm pretty sure Microsoft could support it as easy as adding two drivers, but it won't. Specially since all phones are the exact same hardware, with WP7.
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I really agree with that!! how loudly do we have to yell? But in my point of view nothing about it will be done, microsoft need money and need for yesterday, and yes they will sacrificate the poor white sheeps (that would be us) and watch them bleed just to launch "a completely new OS" that our phones "doesnt support".