Database Info

Marketplace "advanced" "copy protection" cracked

This is a continuation of this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=567870, which covered cracking the original "basic" copy protection of Marketplace.
---
I have now cracked the "advanced" copy protection used by Marketplace. As you may know, this is a "better" protection than the original "CAB copy protection" Marketplace offered. This "advanced" protection uses license keys that are verified when you run the application, and given out and controlled by Microsoft.
Several developers are annoyed that Microsoft does not allow us to use our own licensing schemes, and are forced to use "no protection" (the original CAB copy protection) or use Microsoft's scheme which is essentially a single point of failure for all Marketplace protected apps.
This new "advanced" protection was released today by Microsoft, and as far as I know no app available already uses it at the time of this writing.
So I got the code snippets you are supposed to put in your app and it was simply jawdroppingly WTF. While it was not exactly easy to beat, it took me less than two hours to devise a "generic" hack, without modifying any files on the device. (Well hey, at least it's better than the 5 minutes it took for the "basic" protection, right?)
A "generic" hack? Yes, by this I mean that this single hack (actually, running an EXE in the background) will completely bypass the entire code snippet provided by Microsoft that is supposed to check and validate your license code, for all Marketplace apps that use this "advanced" protection.
I will not publish the code that performs this hack, so don't ask. My goal is not to crack Marketplace apps, my goal is to get MS off their ass and allow us to use our own licensing systems, like the good little resellers they're supposed to be. I will tell you that it has to do with runtime patching the crypto API, but that's it. All in all, I don't think it will take long for the warez people to duplicate this hack.
---
Some further reasoning about anti-piracy, solutions, etc can be found in post 13 on page 2.

if there are no apps that use it yet, how do u know your hack works?

Because the Marketplace portal provides code ("code snippet") you have to compile in your EXE, and that takes care of the whole licensing thing.
So you look at that source, spot the weak points, devise a hack. Then compile a program using said "code snippet" and try the hack on it.
If developers simply copy/paste the snippet they are given by the Marketplace portal, this hack will work.

Chainfire said:
This is a continuation of this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=567870, which covered cracking the original "basic" copy protection of Marketplace.
---
I have now cracked the "advanced" copy protection used by Marketplace. As you may know, this is a "better" protection than the original "CAB copy protection" Marketplace offered. This "advanced" protection uses license keys that are verified when you run the application, and given out and controlled by Microsoft.
Several developers are annoyed that Microsoft does not allow us to use our own licensing schemes, and are forced to use "no protection" (the original CAB copy protection) or use Microsoft's scheme which is essentially a single point of failure for all Marketplace protected apps.
This new "advanced" protection was released today by Microsoft, and as far as I know no app available already uses it at the time of this writing.
So I got the code snippets you are supposed to put in your app and it was simply jawdroppingly WTF. While it was not exactly easy to beat, it took me less than two hours to devise a "generic" hack, without modifying any files on the device. (Well hey, at least it's better than the 5 minutes it took for the "basic" protection, right?)
A "generic" hack? Yes, by this I mean that this single hack (actually, running an EXE in the background) will completely bypass the entire code snippet provided by Microsoft that is supposed to check and validate your license code, for all Marketplace apps that use this "advanced" protection.
I will not publish the code that performs this hack, so don't ask. My goal is not to crack Marketplace apps, my goal is to get MS off their ass and allow us to use our own licensing systems, like the good little resellers they're supposed to be. I will tell you that it has to do with runtime patching the crypto API, but that's it. All in all, I don't think it will take long for the warez people to duplicate this hack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
amen
hallelujah
hit me now
YEAH

have given the issue some press : http://www.1800pocketpc.com/2009/11/13/marketplace-advanced-copy-protection-cracked-in-less-than-2-hours.html

anti-piracy protection is intended to stop ordinary users from transferring cabs between devices and it is successful at that. there is no protection that will stop apps from being pirated, certainly not for handheld devices. the new advanced protection is adequate and any further techniques are redundant and a waste of time, because no matter how 'strong' they are, they WILL be cracked.

Slightly if not totally off-topic: A mainstream consumer's view
mnet said:
anti-piracy protection is intended to stop ordinary users from transferring cabs between devices and it is successful at that. there is no protection that will stop apps from being pirated, certainly not for handheld devices. the new advanced protection is adequate and any further techniques are redundant and a waste of time, because no matter how 'strong' they are, they WILL be cracked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you and your premise. Now a quick story.
I consider myself a mainstream consumer... but I have been a member of XDA for, what, i think 4 years, using 2 WM phones, first the T-Mobile MDA, then the Wing (HTC Herald), and I am about to switch to Android with the HTC Hero. I am reasonably savvy about tech, just not a coder. But I've done all the hard SPL, flashing ROMS, using beta software, and supporting developers here with pretty significant donations. I am also a User Experience / Usability designer for web as a profession. THAT'S MY BACKGROUND.
To date, my experience buying WM apps has been universally AWFUL. Whether it was, just recently, Resco Picture Viewer from PocketGear, or WM Defrag from Wizcode, or PocketPlayer from Conduits. I am more than happy to buy excellent software that works, and has a decent UI. But in each case, the process of buying the app and getting it onto my phone has been absurd, and frustrating beyond belief. Each provider makes all sorts of assumptions -- often wrong -- including "you must be downloading this from a PC, so we will download for you an executable that runs on a desktop PC then installs via active sync onto your device."
Whatever the percentage is, doesn't matter: A lot of people, like me, download all my cab files, and purchase apps, on my Mac... and either email myself the .cab file or .zip files, or place my microSD card from my phone into a USB reader. Thus, what a frikkin headache to end up getting PocketPlayer on my phone... but because i didn't download it from a Windows PC, I was screwed.
This stuff is archaic. This past week it has taken 5 days to get Resco Picture Viewer on my phone after purchasing from PocketGear.com . They have a completely retarded transactional process, a terrible UI, broken software in terms of user recognition and resetting username and password, and a completely phone-UNFRIENDLY site, with most sub-level menus not even accessible from browsers like Opera Mobile, Netfront, Iris ... They are dumbass pull downs using god knows what -- flash or javascript, whatever. But fact is: a simple navigation process to access the products on the phone itself can't even be achieved by these clowns -- yet everyone is in overdrive now trying to get their version of "THE" WindowsMobile app store online, while Microsoft stumbles.
The fact is: I would LIKE to see a uniform transaction process which is designed professionally, and supports great usability design, and once I buy the app, quit making me go through absurd backflips just to get access to the cab file. Stop requiring me to use a Windows PC. And stop all the "special OUR way" authentication processes. Because if they were so good, there wouldn't be the kind of problems I have described. I'll even grant anyone who wants to -- to say "well you're just a dumb**** user who doesn't understand their particular process"... I'll grant you that, and my answer would be:
If you plan to sell a lot of apps -- ie, make money via VOLUME transactions vs pricey apps -- a la iphone -- then it makes a hell of a lot of sense to make a uniform system of delivery if you're buying it through an app store, and for god's sake, cut the crap and figure it out. It's not so hard to send an authentication code via email or text message. But it's exactly WRONG to be having 1000 developers using 1000 special "our way" authentication processes, because the odds of 1000 app developers having a great, simple, effective UI and safe authentication system that prevents priacy of their app is pretty low, based on the experiences I have had to date with MAINSTREAM products for WM.
That's my view. But I see a whole lot of clumsiness from the Windows Mobile side of the fence pertaining to this whole new way of monetizing apps. There's a reason apple succeeds in that department -- even with their bloated catalog and draconian approval processes. They understand how to deliver products to consumers -- vs repelling them from a dumbass process, no matter how good that process may be in theory.

quicksite said:
I agree with you and your premise. Now a quick story.
I consider myself a mainstream consumer... but I have been a member of XDA for, what, i think 4 years, using 2 WM phones, first the T-Mobile MDA, then the Wing (HTC Herald), and I am about to switch to Android with the HTC Hero. I am reasonably savvy about tech, just not a coder. But I've done all the hard SPL, flashing ROMS, using beta software, and supporting developers here with pretty significant donations. I am also a User Experience / Usability designer for web as a profession. THAT'S MY BACKGROUND.
To date, my experience buying WM apps has been universally AWFUL. Whether it was, just recently, Resco Picture Viewer from PocketGear, or WM Defrag from Wizcode, or PocketPlayer from Conduits. I am more than happy to buy excellent software that works, and has a decent UI. But in each case, the process of buying the app and getting it onto my phone has been absurd, and frustrating beyond belief. Each provider makes all sorts of assumptions -- often wrong -- including "you must be downloading this from a PC, so we will download for you an executable that runs on a desktop PC then installs via active sync onto your device."
Whatever the percentage is, doesn't matter: A lot of people, like me, download all my cab files, and purchase apps, on my Mac... and either email myself the .cab file or .zip files, or place my microSD card from my phone into a USB reader. Thus, what a frikkin headache to end up getting PocketPlayer on my phone... but because i didn't download it from a Windows PC, I was screwed.
This stuff is archaic. This past week it has taken 5 days to get Resco Picture Viewer on my phone after purchasing from PocketGear.com . They have a completely retarded transactional process, a terrible UI, broken software in terms of user recognition and resetting username and password, and a completely phone-UNFRIENDLY site, with most sub-level menus not even accessible from browsers like Opera Mobile, Netfront, Iris ... They are dumbass pull downs using god knows what -- flash or javascript, whatever. But fact is: a simple navigation process to access the products on the phone itself can't even be achieved by these clowns -- yet everyone is in overdrive now trying to get their version of "THE" WindowsMobile app store online, while Microsoft stumbles.
The fact is: I would LIKE to see a uniform transaction process which is designed professionally, and supports great usability design, and once I buy the app, quit making me go through absurd backflips just to get access to the cab file. Stop requiring me to use a Windows PC. And stop all the "special OUR way" authentication processes. Because if they were so good, there wouldn't be the kind of problems I have described. I'll even grant anyone who wants to -- to say "well you're just a dumb**** user who doesn't understand their particular process"... I'll grant you that, and my answer would be:
If you plan to sell a lot of apps -- ie, make money via VOLUME transactions vs pricey apps -- a la iphone -- then it makes a hell of a lot of sense to make a uniform system of delivery if you're buying it through an app store, and for god's sake, cut the crap and figure it out. It's not so hard to send an authentication code via email or text message. But it's exactly WRONG to be having 1000 developers using 1000 special "our way" authentication processes, because the odds of 1000 app developers having a great, simple, effective UI and safe authentication system that prevents priacy of their app is pretty low, based on the experiences I have had to date with MAINSTREAM products for WM.
That's my view. But I see a whole lot of clumsiness from the Windows Mobile side of the fence pertaining to this whole new way of monetizing apps. There's a reason apple succeeds in that department -- even with their bloated catalog and draconian approval processes. They understand how to deliver products to consumers -- vs repelling them from a dumbass process, no matter how good that process may be in theory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more!
I'll add one more reason I wrap my head in ductape every time I download/install an app.
Think it's bad with every developer having their own authentication method? How about when each developer has a DIFFERENT authentication scheme for every app they make?

I like a rant - thanks for doing it for me as I agree with you 100%.
The top of my annoyance list (which you did include) are sites selling mobile software which are NOT mobile browser friendly, WTF is that all about?

Big Up, I still don't think anyone else would have done it in two hours.
Hey you warned them didn't you.

Haha Chainfire is there anything you cant do?

More in the Dutch press:
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/63713/nederlander-kraakt-nieuwe-beveiliging-windows-marketplace.html

While I do appreciate the "rant", I think you're missing my point - or perhaps I just don't agree. (Edit: that is in response to this post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4936479&postcount=7)
When I say "use our own licensing schemes", I do not mean codes sent back and forth through websites, screen you have to type stuff in etc. This is exactly not needed because Marketplace is also the delivery mechanism. In other words, the license code can be installed by Marketplace directly without the user ever seeing or hearing about it.
This is partly how the new system works, actually. However, if Microsoft supported license codes you give them things would be more secure (though granted, for a large part by obscurity).
Some authors will not care and simply not use it all, for example with the cheap apps it may not be worth their while. Others may wish to track license key usage, so that if suddenly 10.000 users start using the same key instead of the 1 who bought it, that key can be disabled, etc. Some may want the app to call home, some will not. Imagine that developers that do employ such anti-piracy measures will write their own verification / communication code, this beats the single point of failure we currently have. The crackers are back to having to crack each app independently and even then have a much lower chance of success.
Marketplace is the perfect opportunity to implement such a system that does provide some piracy security for the authors while for once it does not unnecessarily annoy the user.
To make the obligatory bad car analogy that fails in many ways, take you car keys. Everyone thinks it's normal to have a car key, so people can't just take your car. Of course, in line with some of the arguments against anti-piracy measures, car keys aren't really that useful, as there's always a brick - the universal key, and a car thief that really wants your car will get it. (You also lock the doors on your house, right?)
Now, the current situation is pretty much that everyone has the same car key. How useful is a car key in that situation? They way I see it (and I'm sure I'm not alone in that), is more like the actual car key situation. Some car keys are laser etched, or have something RFID-like in them and a receive in the car, or simply use different shapes, etc. That's a lot more useful than everyone having the same car key.
Sure, no matter what you do, eventually things will get cracked and it is a cat and mouse game. One of the reasons this is easily doable is because of the open nature and the very few restrictions of Windows Mobile. This is a good thing. No developer in their right mind would want to get to a restrictive system like is the case on the iPhone or other mobile OS's. That is not the point. That doesn't mean anti-piracy measures are useless though, far from it. The longer you can keep a release from being warez'd, the less you lose.
There are two arguments I hear coming back in various places by various people:
(1) If the normal users can't just copy it, then that is enough (even MS says this)
(2) Piracy works as advertising, you get more eventual sales, etc. etc
Both of these, are from my own experience, completely untrue. The thing is if one person cracks it, it usually spreads on those warez sites pretty quickly.
The big thing here is, the average user is apparently tech-savvy enough to search the warez sites first before buying, and that is just how it is:
We have played the game with that one warez site, monitoring sales when (apparent) cracks were listed and when they weren't (they do remove releases on request). This made a 30-50% difference in sales (with the number being highest during the weekends, and lowest during weekdays). For me that is enough data to know that both (1) and (2) are complete nonsense in the case of mobile apps. No matter all the pretty reasons and perhaps seemingly logical reasons you may come up with for (1) and (2), the numbers don't lie.
So, how would you like to get a 30-50% paycut? It's not like us developers are getting rich here, you know. Can we be blamed for trying to prevent this?
Now, here we have the chance to implement a system that is completely transparent for the user and can be made reasonably safe (and updatable), an obvious win-win situation for everyone involved except the warez people. Why exactly shouldn't we be aiming for this?
What is also painfully apparent here, as Microsoft themselves claim reason (1), that they have no idea what they are talking about.

i am no programmer so excuse my ignorance but doesnt everything eventually get cracked. Is there any mobile platform which hasnt a non cracked market place or sites where you can download paid apps for free?

Well done Chainfire

Hello Chainfire,
I am the webmaster of the Tamoggemon Content network, and just covered you:
http://tamsppc.tamoggemon.com/2009/11/13/advanced-marketplace-drm-broken/
http://tamswms.tamoggemon.com/2009/11/13/advanced-marketplace-drm-broken/
Furthermore, an email went out to MSFT asking for a statement. but this is not the reason why I registered here (!!!) - I am instead here to vent a bit being a Symbian dev myself.
While I fully understand your frustration, I think that allowing every developer to run his own DRM is not gonna do the store good. The reason is that the store was made to make purchasing apps simple - and by allowing everyone to run his own DRM I dont see much of a venue to do this anymore.
Whenever some kind of backend gets involved, there is a single point of failure - the only trhing I can think off now would be a very complet system based on servers.
Or, of course, platform security like on S60. But trust me - we wont want that!

Thanks! However, if you read my other post carefully you'd see it wouldn't make any difference to the ease of using the store (it wouldn't make any difference for the user at all), just to a part of the backend. And of course, each DRM system has a single point of failure, but the difference is in my case there is a point of failure per app, while in the current case it's a single point of failure for everything. There is no perfect solution, but there are better solutions than the current one.
I've been contacted by a handful of big WM devs by now who are of somewhat the same opinion.

microsoft.... when it comes to security, they are clueless as usual.
only apple is worse.
I find they windows-7 VPN and "encryption" funny , is there anybody that would trust it ? - even if it was not for the backdoors ?

Just wondering, is anyone else having problems accessing the windows marketplace from the phone? I was able to download a couple of apps yesterday after I installed a custom ROM (TPC Pro Series V3.2), but today I get a message saying there is an update, it installs the update but then I get the following message:
"Windows Marketplace for Mobile cannot connect right now. Try again later."
Is this because of the custom ROM and the latest update to the marketplace, or is this something other people are experiencing?

Remember the days when purchased mp3s were DRM protected and some companies like Sony even put rootkits on music CDs? Did that stop piracy?
Hopefully Microsoft will not repeat these mistakes... There is no need for any further 'protection' for marketplace apps. If a developer isn't satisfied with this mechanism then he/she doesn't have to publish their apps on the marketplace. There's no point in having a centralized app store if every developer uses his/her own licensing scheme.

Looking for good WM programmer

Hello!
I have some great idea for WindowsMobile software. Similar software is there for iPhone and it's market is worth millions of USDs, while on WM, there is no such thing!
I am looking for a revenue share partnership: I am finishing server side part and need some to make Windows Mobile Client. Technology is not very important for me. Please, PM me for details if interested(let me know your IM too if possible).

Hi,
My 5 cents on this issue:
1) If you have a buissness idea worth millions of US$, you should NOT discuss it with anyone, without a NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement).
2) If the idea has already been implemented by Apple for the iPhone, then chances are, that there are patents on the technology or parts of it.
3) If you are still sure about this buissness, then you should HIRE WM programmers, instead of offering them partnership against their work.
4) If you don't have money to pay them, you should set up a propper business plan, protect your idea by submitting a patent request and/or registering the algorithm/software/brand, and get risk capital involved.
5) You should have enough cashflow to build a propper client/server application and infrastructure: if you are not infringing on Apple's copyrights, then probably any other could copy the same idea, too. This means that the first offering a propper service, will have best chances to stay on business when competition starts.
If you do it with no or little money, then chances are that you:
1) Will not setup a propper product and will lose the little money you invested
or
2) Will setup a working product, which is under-dimensionated, allowing for competition to make a better product in no-time.
Please take this as a friendly remark...
Cheers,
vma

Thank you very much for your suggestions!
Well, it is not a million dollar project for sure. The market is worth a lot, but I'd rather thought of few k usd a month, nothing very big.
There are no technologies in that idea that can be protected, so no problem.
I just do not really want to hire programmer the normal way. I do not need a worker, I need someone who loves programming(well, I am a programmer myself, just Windows and server side) and creates art instead of binary code Investing is not a problem for me, I have capital, but as I said, I need one, good programmer who will be developing the app longterm for a cut of revenue.

What kind of specific programming skills are you looking for ?

The application needs to look well, even very well. That's the main objective. Need stuff like nice graphics, kinetic scrolling etc. implementation of accelerometer and HTC Leo's multitouch if possible. Language and technology is not very important for me.
It will need to take some data from user, send it to my server and present the response from my server in possibly nice and intuitive way.

Hire Programmer ASAP
For a sure deal, why not check out http://www.hire-programmer.com/. My professor mentioned this site, and apparently, they provide their clients with the kinds of programmer their clients need. If you are in dire need of a programmer, then trying their services poses more gains than losses.

Bring Your Own Device (BYOD) strategy.

While use of mobile technologies has potential to transform business, making it possible for an organization to be more agile in serving its customers, it can also disrupt IT. The new generation of employees expects complete freedom to use mobile devices, regardless of whether they are company-owned or employee-owned. most IT departments are struggling to define and implement a bring-your-own-device (BYoD) strategy. To a large extent, they still use the old command-and-control model of Windows-based device management, trying to dictate what devices employees can use and how they can use them. But the old model doesn’t work anymore. not only are new devices flooding the workplace, but today’s mobile devices bring a variety of new operating systems, such as ios and Android, and many applications to contend with.
I must say it's an interesting whitepaper that discusses much more than this so I would like to share it with you !
Downloaded it from : bit.ly/yhmWAW

Microsoft is trying to pitch the Windows 8 to business phone users and ability to control and deploy them via their SCCM (SMS), however the popularity of Win 8 and windows phones are horrible to say the least, if Microsoft really wants to turn the tables around, they will need to start giving away Free Windows 8 phones to corporate enterprises, along with their "free" license of SCCM which businesses already gets included when they buy Microsoft license packs.
Blackberry have been the leader on this field all these years due their easy to use Admin Centre and mail server piggy back, hands down there's no real competition yet to kick them out of the king's throne in this area
Android offer the most extensive control, but require geek like us to do it for them (and some business will find this as a hindrance as they need to hire specialized people to do the job), there's no central control system in place, but it's relatively easy to build, reason why Lenovo is jumping into the Android bandwagon with all their new tablets and phones devices running on Android, as IBM + Lenovo they always take care of the Corporate enterprises for other companies, basically they are in the right spot at the right time, if all goes well Blackberry is going to lose its crown
End users choice will always be the iDrones, however it's the device with the least control by third party, and the one that is the most popular among end users.
HP tried hard with their WebOS, but failed miserably at trying to reproduce the success of its predecessor PalmOS in the business world.
... All that being said....
If work places are to allow people to BYOD then it means the IT team will need to have a GPO set to roll out to any new Windows phones that joins the SCCM system, also will require BlackBerry users to join to the new Domain (which is relatively easy as most updated BB phones are already ready for both personal + business mails and settings lockups), will need a new Android specialist, to either load customized ROMs or some alternative with a custom App that must be installed in their phones and let IT department control the phone, and Ban the iDrones from the workplace; clearly it's meant as an entertainment device instead of an enterprise ready phone

AllGamer said:
and Ban the iDrones from the workplace; clearly it's meant as an entertainment device instead of an enterprise ready phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. Also not sure if you're being sarcastic. I rep Android to death (ANDRIZZLE). But seriously I work at an Apple Specialist store and with all the courses I had to take to become proficient here I've realized that Apple is trying very hard to push iPhones and iPads into businesses. They actually fit quite nicely with simple to use MDM controls and separate custom profiles for IT to set up for the end user.
Honestly, I think Android is the worst OS to bring into the business world, unless someone can come up with a RedHat for Android. And by that I mean a stable uniformed release for mass consumption. There's too much control to be had over the device by the end user no matter what IT sets up for it to be uniformed across a company like they would need it to be.
Blackberry are the Kings of business mobile right now. They will be until somehow steps up and makes a serious effort to point their whole company in the direction of business. But seeing as how that's only a small percentage of what they actually could have nobody will probably do that. It works well for blackberry because they've already realized that they aren't getting any more popular with the kids and have been able to focus on the strategies of effective business management capabilities being built into a phone.
That's my 2 cents there.

[Q] Help me flesh out an idea for new functionality

tl;dr I'm new, I'm not a very knowledgeable developer, I have an idea that I want your opinion about.
Heyo Peoples,
I'm new and I like to think a lot about cool new stuff with mobile devices (web, software, hardware, etc). I've been thinking a lot recently about how people like to use mobile devices, and how we might use them in the near future--thinking past what's being done now, and into what comes next.
I've been wondering for a while why there isn't an existing piece of functionality on mobile devices that allows a user complete control of the device and every piece of information on it. Imagine a GUI except instead of graphics, it's like interacting with a person. (aside: first person to say Siri should be shunned like an Amish girl who went to a movie theater).
Is it outrageous to say that you should be able to pick up your phone and have it find anything, from anytime in the past that you have done with or on it? I know that would take mountains of data, but is it silly? In it's most basic form, this would just be a search feature. In it's most eloquent form it could be an operating system. Imagine being able to ask your phone what you did last Wednesday, or maybe where you were. What if it could recall emails or documents based on date, time, location where you were when you wrote it, keyword, or contact, based on verbal interaction? What if it tracked data usage by application, or allowed you to measure and optimize system performance with a verbal command (ex. "Shut down all apps except for Google Maps" or "How much data am I using per minute").
Is it too early to start wishing for an interface like that computer on Paycheck (horrible movie with Ben Afleck) or Cortana in Halo? Is this type of interface impractical or implausible?
If you were to make something like this, would it have to be a new operating system built from the ground up, or could you develop an app to do this, or could you hack Android to do it? I welcome all of your feedback.
Lots of questions, and I have very few answers.

Jujubes said:
tl;dr I'm new, I'm not a very knowledgeable developer, I have an idea that I want your opinion about.
Heyo Peoples,
I'm new and I like to think a lot about cool new stuff with mobile devices (web, software, hardware, etc). I've been thinking a lot recently about how people like to use mobile devices, and how we might use them in the near future--thinking past what's being done now, and into what comes next.
I've been wondering for a while why there isn't an existing piece of functionality on mobile devices that allows a user complete control of the device and every piece of information on it. Imagine a GUI except instead of graphics, it's like interacting with a person. (aside: first person to say Siri should be shunned like an Amish girl who went to a movie theater).
Is it outrageous to say that you should be able to pick up your phone and have it find anything, from anytime in the past that you have done with or on it? I know that would take mountains of data, but is it silly? In it's most basic form, this would just be a search feature. In it's most eloquent form it could be an operating system. Imagine being able to ask your phone what you did last Wednesday, or maybe where you were. What if it could recall emails or documents based on date, time, location where you were when you wrote it, keyword, or contact, based on verbal interaction? What if it tracked data usage by application, or allowed you to measure and optimize system performance with a verbal command (ex. "Shut down all apps except for Google Maps" or "How much data am I using per minute").
Is it too early to start wishing for an interface like that computer on Paycheck (horrible movie with Ben Afleck) or Cortana in Halo? Is this type of interface impractical or implausible?
If you were to make something like this, would it have to be a new operating system built from the ground up, or could you develop an app to do this, or could you hack Android to do it? I welcome all of your feedback.
Lots of questions, and I have very few answers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is probably not as far off as it seems. The developers of "Utter" have come along way in the right direction. You should maybe approach them with your ideas. Not all of them of course . Save some for yourself.

One problem I see is semantics. "Shut down all apps except for Google Maps" sounds good - but do you really mean ALL apps ? The line that would be walked is one where the developer must train the program to not necessarily do what they ask, but do what they WANT. It gets trickier when you realise that some people who aren't your average users might want to test things and shut down an app (in this case) that an average user would never want shut, where they might mess up their phone beyond their ability to repair if they did.
I think speech is a great tool to interact, though I'm not going to be a person to use it. I don't think speech will ever become a default unless there are other technological advances that change how we interact with the world. It's annoying enough to hear someone gabbing loudly to another human on the phone, do we really want people gabbing AT their phones as a default interface ? I think privacy is a driving factor that will keep sound from being a major interface - perhaps it could work for in home applications, but out in public people may not want to announce to the world who they are calling, what they are looking for, or what site they're logging on to, et cetera. Until there's technology to make voice and sound less "public", I don't see this being the future of phones - it's more of a nice thing to have as an "extra" for when a person is comfortable using it.
But, hey, maybe we'll get used to wearing Google Glass and talking to ourselves all the time - or we'll get in-ear buds or implants where we can choose to hear the outside world or not. Just exploring the possibilities here.
I do think it's a big "outrageous" to have infinite backup. Just take a look at how much data companies like Amazon and Facebook acquire on a per-day basis. Think about how much data you use on a daily basis. I don't have the money or desire to be buying new HDDs every other week. Maybe in the future there will be a technological revolution that allows for mass amounts of data to be stored in even smaller spaces. But current technology in that regard is still very expensive and persnickety - read about high capacity SD cards and how fragile they can be and about data needing to be "refreshed" or they can become corrupt. There are lots of issues that make backing up everything you do impracticable.
And, again - privacy concerns. Do I really want my computer to know what I did last Wednesday and who I was with ? What if someone stole my computer or phone and had access to that information ? If we had the technology to do that, who's to say that current encryption would be "enough" - or that someone wouldn't go ahead and try to hack it anyway if they felt finding out basically everything about you was worth brute-forcing your phone or whatever they'd do in the future ? And have no password or a crappy one - even easier for them to know EVERYTHING about you, now.
Highly visual and talk-activated computers are absolutely great for games, movies, and TV. Why ? They function as narrative devices. They allow the actor to say or explain things they otherwise wouldn't have said out loud for personal, practical, or security reasons. They can become characters in their own right. People like those big screen computer displays where the characters are poking things all over and up and down - it looks cool. But not so cool is having your arms get tired from reaching up and around all the time. Not so cool is having to tell the computer out loud what kind of special images you want to search for when you have house-mates living in the next room over.
Just some thoughts. If you have other or counter ideas, go right on ahead.

Android for Windows - BlueStacks

Good day community,
Over the past several months, a few of us have been working on a projerct some may be familiar with. We have bundled an add-on to specific BlueStacks versions to allow for a complete Operating System environment, full of communications tools.
We didn't "develop", any of it. We have taken the time to scour the internet and primarily this site to garner the education, information and knowledge to actually bring it to fruition. We would like to say a big THANK YOU to the entire community here. We feel this is am important piece to a software life-cycle where developed information is compiled into a fully functioning system, exposing your people's craftsmanship.
The motive here is a moral one. I have been a communications engineer for 22 years and have seen and done things I thought weren't possible. I have been tasked with trying to develop an education platform technology matrix for schools. Specifically using my innovation abilities to solve problems. I am not a coder, I am more of a script writer. I have found success in making disparate hardware and software work together, and producing middle-ware scripts and functions to technologically solve challenges. In every sector.
I believe I have identified one of the major issues related to student success rates. Basic communications is hindered in many schools, internet cut out, and dictator like classroom regime. I feel communications is the king of industry and whomever has the information the fastest, cheapest, and accurate, wins. This is proven time and time again in capitalism. I feel students should be able to sms, or exchange pictures and peruse social networks, both to each other and their teachers. These are real-world tools, and the primary back-bone of a child's social life. But students need to learn to be accountable for they digital actions,
This "OS" changes things ever so slightly., not every student can afford the gear required to have that type of communication. If every kid could afford an iphone and ipad, than I don't need to do this project. Android on the other hand, little or no cost at all.
I will be deploying Android for Windows across the board. Students will have to setup a Google account and online storage. Copies of AW can be had for their home computer. The environment is the environment kids all love and use, the emulated touch interface is "cool" and the kids can support it and maintain it mostly themselves, and sync it to their PC phones or other devices, but those are NOT required. And no need to upgrade the PC's for a while, BlueStacks is Linux(ish), it's hardware demands are low, and I can keep the PC's at there current level.
I distribute it on thepratebay, another long story for another day, but this is the best way to ensure it stays out there, and the price is right to be able to push it out to the world. We have tirelessly worked to ensure compatibility with the apps the devs release and I know this particular release of AW has restored many of the items BlueStacks cripples
We have started a mini marketing campaign to drum up interest, although modest. And for you devs, this open an ENTIRE new revenue stream you didn't even have before. Making Android the primary OS used.
---------------------------
That's the agenda, I would like to open a support thread for it somewhere on here. I have an armada of info, tools, rootkits, tricks and troubleshooting information that we feel can be valuable to the community. I'll get things posted here ASAP. Anyone that has played with this at all before will be able to appreciate all of the challenges we had to solve.
We did not knowingly disassemble or modify any of the original distribution files of any applications, staying in accordance with about every license agreement on earth.
--------------------------
Looking for some feedback, questions, thoughts, ideas.. have to get 10 posts or something anyway...
Thank you to everyone!
-js

What's the difference between your project and the Android x86 project?

syung said:
What's the difference between your project and the Android x86 project?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK Bluestacks has its own VM, so you doesn't need to install Virtual Machine any more.
I used this for a several months and it helps me to try an application without to send it to any Android device.
If you use Android x86 project, yo need to install it inside a Virtual Machine or make a USB Bootable, and as far I know it has limitations in the Play Store. Only some application that supports the architecture can be downloaded..

The Android x86 project is a piece of this absolutely. What BlueStacks is and what they have done is this:
Taken x86 gingerbread and ad an arm translator inside there. This is very unique, all of the other arm emulations fail out there after you even try to put them to the test with heavier use or apps. Basically the compatibility is just not there.
BlueStacks then added the vm player which is the most sophisticated player there is. Network mounts to shared fordler without installing drivers, and opengl support for limited HD graphics.
What we did
BlueStacks also crippled the hell out of the original ROM. All kinds of things missing that had to be put back in piece by piece, and still ensure compatibility. Some things fine to leave out, other maybe useful.
poring over the information, rooting bluestacks came easy, so we rooted every single v7.x of bluestacks, and began the mountain task of building compatibility. The winners are 7.4 for SD and 7.8 for HD. 7.8 handle the interface scrolling operations WAY better than later revisions. I can tell it was after this rev they forced on Surface Pro support, not back checking compatibility. And 7.4 installs on any machine but drops the arm translator. Still a nice product to put on an old machine, but little support for modern apps, and there won't be
Then doing a fair assessment of applications to do all the tasks one needs, file manipulation, printing, music, calling etc, We've spent over 200 hours trying to get a reliable lock screen, failed on that But we got most of it.
Finally adding and getting gapps to fully function was about like trying to drink a beer while standing on your head, it was like a marathon game of whack mole, we'd fix something, then something else friggen slam us over the head. Then we got to writing script, and adding widows apps like virtual keyboards and mouse to basically be able to run the entire OS with 1 finger as if you were Stephen Hawking.
We had an excellent response to the initial concept stuff version 1.1. It held on to around 400 seeders and 1000 user swam for about a week then began to fizzle. We expect that to triple and estimate 100,000 downloads in the first week. It is my opinion thepiratebay is the most accurate source for demand of anything digital, people that keep a copy and seed, actually really like something, versus an artificial "like" that other sites have and profit from. That's all Trip9d0zen stuff, about removing fake values and replacing it with real information exchange freedoms, so actually all financial can get to a creator, don't want to digress to far in this thread, but there is an ideology we have in common with thee twitters and thepitatebay's who have just the extreme basics of censorship, only to ensure safety, but never manipulated the information. We have evidence and models to change current businesses, and put the devs out in-front of these projects (or the artist selected agents). The more systems Android runs on, more success one can have. And Windows being the biggest, hands down, why not?
We feel this is by far the most compatible Android environment one can use, and can actually be used by anyone as an effective tool.
We know full well that once released, the ungodly amount of app work requests will be at its highest, but that's why I am here, where the devs are.. is this a revenue stream they want to suppport,?
I am personally using it exclusively for all my communications, social media and document creation, I only use windows for video playing files.
Hope that helps answer, here is the info to commercials for it, as our lil-1337s eloquently cranked out, smartasses...
youtube search for js99912
-js

It looks interesting, i'll check that up!

Dexcellium said:
It looks interesting, i'll check that up!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too. Thanks

Android for Windows 2.0
new version just went live..... can someone reply with a hot-link, thanks
thepiratebay.sx
/torrent/8440340

Adding Game Data / Mount SDcard.sparse BlueStacks
Ok, I have been asked about this more than anything,
Used to be the SDcard was a .fs file and could be manipulated easy, now it's a bit more involved, but none to difficult.
You need to download:
thepiratebay.sx/
torrent/8453985
This will get you to be able to mount the SDcard.sparsefs as a drive letter in windows... Nothing new, just consolidating info as I have been requested for this more than anything else. Enjoy!
-js