Related
I did a list of downsides for each (only in relation to each other).
Downsides of Kaiser:
- relatively Big and heavy.
Downsides of Touch Cruise: (from more worse to less worse)
- No cheap version (like AT&T's TILT - $500 USD).
- Insensitive touch screen.
- Bad reception on Bluetooth.
- Mediocre build quality (loose volume control, etc.)
- No hardware keyboard (becomes a bigger problem if the touch screen is insensitive).
- Smaller xda community (might change in the future).
It seems like the choice should be easy, but I just don't know how easy it will be for me to live with a 200 gram brick in my pocket...
As a former kaiser and now a polaris owner, I can say:
The Polaris is cheaper than the kaiser
the touch screen works just fine (same as with the tilt)
community for polaris & kaiser is almost the same
the polaris has more & newer functionality (applies to original rom)
As a former kaiser and now a polaris owner, I can say:
The Polaris is cheaper than the kaiser
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said, for the Kaiser there is the cheaper option of going with the AT&T TILT, which can be had NEW (with warranty) for $450-500 USD on ebay. The lowest price on ebay for which the Polaris can be bought is around $700 USD. That's a HUGE price difference, for two products which basically have similar functions and hardware.
the touch screen works just fine (same as with the tilt)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read just too many posts from people with the Polaris saying the touch screen is insensitive. Are you saying it's a non issue and both the touch screen sensitivity of the Polaris is not worse than the Kaiser ? (it's important for me to hear it from someone who came from the Kaiser).
Noam23 said:
I did a list of downsides for each (only in relation to each other).
Downsides of Kaiser:
- relatively Big and heavy.
Downsides of Touch Cruise: (from more worse to less worse)
- No cheap version (like AT&T's TILT - $500 USD).
- Insensitive touch screen.
- Bad reception on Bluetooth.
- Mediocre build quality (loose volume control, etc.)
- No hardware keyboard (becomes a bigger problem if the touch screen is insensitive).
- Smaller xda community (might change in the future).
It seems like the choice should be easy, but I just don't know how easy it will be for me to live with a 200 gram brick in my pocket...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a kaiser for 1 month or 2 also then sold it because I realized I didn't use the hardware keyboard as much as I thought I did.
When I took the cruise out of the box I thought it was a fake phone because it is lighter then the kaiser (obviously) and my s730, hell, even lighter then my Motorola v60 I think! lol
Here was my mini list
Kaiser:
More mechanical components mean greater chances of something physically breaking/wearing down. I drop kaiser on the city bus, I am screwed!
jog wheel works fine, but it's a little loose sometimes too, like the cruise volume slider (this thing is almost useless at the moment unless I can "work it in")
The hard keys on the front are great, but on a lot of kaisers, they are loose. I had two kaisers, and both hard key face plates were loose. had to send the first one back because depending on how much the plate had slid, i couldn't go up or down with the d pad.
I really liked the touch keypad that i installed on the kaiser, but the buttons were harder to press with thumb in corners or a long the side cuz of the groove where the screen meets the casing.
Kaiser is around the same size, but just a lot thicker obviously.
Thoughts on the cruise so far;
Volume slider sucks ass, have to use my nail to move it. Luckily whatever i am listening to i can either use that REALLY cool dial pad/jog wheel thing. I set hat more than I used the kaiser jog wheel. Or I use my headset.
The screen is flush with the sides and tops of the casing, so hitting buttons on the corners or sides are no problem, but if you have a case then it's the same as having a kaiser.
About the insensitive screen. I have to agree with you on that somewhat. With the kaiser, it looks like what's there is just the screen. But with the cruise, it looks like the screen is underneath another layer of something. This is how we have the flush face with the cruise, there is something else over the screen that the kaiser does not(i don't think at last) have. sometimes if you press hard enough (which you shouldn't have to do ) you can feel your thumb hit the "second screen" (the actual lcd), not the thing that we actually touch on top). It's hard to explain clearly
I have sensitives on very high using kaisertweak and playing with reg keys. I've got it pretty close to sensitivity of kaiser now. I do notice with cube i have to press a little hard to OPEN it, but not left or right or close it. kind of weird.
It's true about the communities, it is a little small right now, but also I think tytn i had abig following so it's natural tytn II would now also. but again, cruise and tytn ii are pretty much the same inside.
I bought my cruise for 699 Canadian, new.
The radio is really cool too (amazing, for such a high tech modern device, something as old school as an FM radio is what really impresses me.. lol)
Another gripe so far about cruise is that i dont know if its the rom i am using, or if its all roms, or if it's the extra layer over the screen, is that when I am typing out a message, with ANY keyboard, but ONLY in the messaging application, i get no feedback from the keys. Nothing highlights if i press it quickly. The letter appears, which is great, but i don't see any of the keys being highlighted unless i hold onto it longer. This could be the rom id downloaded, but i tried on 2 roms I think, and it might have even been like this on the original rom too, I can't remember. I am still trying to figure it out. But visual key feedback is very important to me. I didn't have that problem with the touch keyboard installed on the kaiser. I think I'll do some more testing on that tonight actually.
A few other things.. haha, on a roll.
With the Kaiser.. I noticed that the way I hold it with one had, my pointing finger woudl ALWAYS land on the damn camera lens because the lens is on the top half of the casing the back. Pretty annoying to obsessively clean that lens. With the cruise, the main camera is in the middle, and my finger does not touch it
I do admit the Kaiser is nicer to actually hold because of the rounder corners and it's thickness. If fits in the hand better.
The cruise has more of a rectangular/pointy shape. It takes a little getting use to but I didn't really notice the difference until today. Also, depends on how you hold it i guess.
Kaiser (i've never owned one, although I have a Hermes)too thick....looks dated (very shallow statement..I know)
Polaris..I've never had a problem with the touch screen...barring ofcourse when you try to select a different SIP from the taskbar.
The PocketCM keyboard is one the best touch software around...very intellegent...I was never a texter..but with this keyboard I very rarely have to backtrack my typing...and in general touch software is only going to get better.
besides IMVPO I dont like thick pullout keypads....
Just my 2 pence worth...
briggs81,
Thank you for your words.
From what you say I think I'll go with the TILT. I simply can't justify paying $200 USD more for the cruise. If they were both at the same price, I would have taken the cruise with its faults, but the price difference is the last straw.
In the following year I'm sure lots of great devices wil come out, including probably HTC devices with proper video drivers. We should always be ready to upgrade, and I don't feel the cruise is such a good investment at this time (if you're on a budget, that is).
Screen insensitive??? Lol, with the right tweak the screen is to sensitive haha...mine is quick and very alert for touches.
Yzord said:
Screen insensitive??? Lol, with the right tweak the screen is to sensitive haha...mine is quick and very alert for touches.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe on your device, and in your opinion. No point in laughing.
Don't know about everyone else, but my screen is extremely sensitive, it has never missed a tap EVER. FYI, I roll w/o a screen protector (they ruin the look too much imo but I always keep the phone in its suede case when not in use). BTW, Kaiser is really a brick compared to the Polaris, and the polaris is pretty much a one handed phone for me whereas the Kaiser is definitely not, furthermore as far as looks there is really no competition. However, if you need the keyboard Kaiser is clearly the only choice. I emphasize need, bc you will most likely find that you get along just fine with the onscreen touch keyboard.
briggs81 said:
Maybe on your device, and in your opinion. No point in laughing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No... this is true. There is not any touch-sensitivity problems with Polaris as it can easily (very easily) can be improved with some registry tweaks.
I own one of the first Touch Cruises (first one reported here in the Forum) and I also have a Kaiser for conducting an end-user custom ROM review. I am free to put my sim card in either device, but it always ends up in the Cruise. I have to force myself to keep the Kaiser active for any time over a few hours.
With the Kaiser custom ROM, I have all of the TouchFlo interface features as the Cruise. I have never perceived a problem with the screen sensitivity on the Cruise. To the contrary, I have more struggles with the Kaiser and most often, I find the landscape/portrait getting out of sync due to accidentally nudging the screen slider on then back off before the swap has time to apply. If you're bothered by the pointy corners on the Cruise, get the Orbit II but this is really only cosmetics. For me I have no issues with the volume slider on the Crusie. The scroll wheel is kind of free and easy, but for the limited number of times I've ever needed to use it, it works fine. I think you can tell which device I prefer. For me, even if it were $200-$250 less for the AT&T Tilt, I don't like it sitting side by side with the Cruise.
Indeed you can edit the registry setting for the sensitivity of the screen, although it is not needed (atleast for me).
I find it strange that you have to pay 200 dollars more for a cruise then a kaiser.
A kaiser here costs around 670 euro, the cruise costs about 500 euro
Also the pictures I am taking have far more better quality then on the kaiser.
Maybe my lense on the kaiser wasnt clean enough, i don't know.
But as said before here, the position of the camera is way better then on the kaiser. No more fears for dirty fingers on the lense
I switched from kaiser to touch cruise and until now i hadnt have one moment of regret
Damn it guys, you are making this decision harder for me
Regarding the screen of the touch cruise, how can you protect it if it's on the same plane with the sides of the device, I mean, how will the screen protector stay in one place and not move ?
I find it strange that you have to pay 200 dollars more for a cruise then a kaiser.
A kaiser here costs around 670 euro, the cruise costs about 500 euro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because you don't have the AT&T TILT version of the Kaiser in europe.
Regarding the screen of the touch cruise, how can you protect it if it's on the same plane with the sides of the device, I mean, how will the screen protector stay in one place and not move ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The TC comes with a screen protector which sticks to the screen via adhesive (I haven't put it on though as I'm careful with the phone and keep it in its oem suede/microfiber case when I'm not on the phone).
BTW, I was actually in a position to get the ATT Tilt for just $100 after rebates and discounts...I still chose the Touch Cruise as its ridiculously better looking and a lot more usable for me as the flush screen paired w/Touch Flo allows for one handed usage (one-handed usage is key for me, esp as I'm a former Smartphone user).
FYI: I did pick up another smartphone from ATT to sell on eBay so that I could in a way subsidize the cost of the Polaris.
on tuch cruise screen sensitivity for finger, not for stylus. so its easy for finger & hard for stylus.
The TC comes with a screen protector which sticks to the screen via adhesive (I haven't put it on though as I'm careful with the phone and keep it in its oem suede/microfiber case when I'm not on the phone).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But can't it still catch a scratch from the stylus ?, is the screen of the touch cruise less prone to scratches ? (like the Iphone)
Also, using adhesive will destroy the look of the phone, no ?, and how will you take it off if you want without leaving residue ?
on tuch cruise screen sensitivity is for finger, not for stylus. so its easy for finger & hard for stylus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really, it will be easier using a stylus with the Kaiser than with the Cuise ?, a lot of software is still for stylus only...
I have never found a need for using a screen protector on any of my devices. As they have been passed down through my teenage sons, they too have learned proper care and use of the screens. With the Cruise, I definitely don't like to prospect of having a 'sticker' on the face if it. Just learn how to properly care for and use your screen and it will last.
I have never found a need for using a screen protector on any of my devices. As they have been passed down through my teenage sons, they too have learned proper care and use of the screens. With the Cruise, I definitely don't like to prospect of having a 'sticker' on the face if it. Just learn how to properly care for and use your screen and it will last.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I intend to put the phone in my jean's pocket (without anything else) with the screen toward the leg.
Could this thing cause a problem ?
alipi2007 said:
on tuch cruise screen sensitivity for finger, not for stylus. so its easy for finger & hard for stylus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have this issue, its easy for me to use my finger just as it is easy to use the stylus. Both require very little pressure. I did use a Kaiser in a shop once, and it actually required a lot of pressure (prob due screen protector they had installed on it).
I intend to put the phone in my jean's pocket (without anything else) with the screen toward the leg.
Could this thing cause a problem ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't think so.... but I would still use the oem suede/microfiber sheath, as its extremely thin and doesn't add to the bulk of the device, but protects it from lint, and any inadverdent scratches just in case something happens to already be in your pocket.
But can't it still catch a scratch from the stylus ?, is the screen of the touch cruise less prone to scratches ? (like the Iphone)
Also, using adhesive will destroy the look of the phone, no ?, and how will you take it off if you want without leaving residue ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The screen seems very resistant to scratches from the stylus and the stylus glides across the screen without any resistance. In fact, you got me curious and I applied a moderate amount of strength to the stylus just to see and its still smooth as silk without any scratching.
As far as the adhesive from the screen protector, my guess is that this is a non-issue. I don't use screen protectors as they tend to look kind of cheap, but I'd imagine if it did leave any residue behind, it could be cleaned up fairly easily.
Ever since I got my brand new HTC Touch Pro I noticed the screen to be way less sensitive than my girlfriend's iPhone.
For example in the Contacts app, when I use my finger to scroll down or up I find myself many times opening a contact rather than the screen scrolled down or up. Same goes for many other presses on the screen with the finger. I find myself using much more force than I naturally would use with an iPhone
I wonder if my unit is faulty requirming more pressure to the screen or maybe that just the way it should be by deisgn? I assume only users who used both iPhone and Touch Pro could answer that. I don't know anybody with Diamond or Touch pro so I have no way of checking it other than asking you guys.
Thanks
Iphone and Touch Pro use different types of touch screen.
We have Capasitive screen on iPhone which doesn't require pressure, just a touch.
And we have touch-resistive screens on most of Windows Mobile (inc. Touch Pro) which are less sensitive than iPhone...
Here is a link that might help: http://www.rycom.com.au/capvsres.htm
by the nature of the technology involved to sense your touch, the pro is less sensitive than the iphone.
the iphone uses a capacitive touchscreen which senses the electrical signal around your finger whereas the tp uses a resistive touchscreen which senses where your finger presses the screen in.
resistive screens are designed for sytli, and the "gestures" and flick scrolling implemented on many htc devices are a kind of fudged system to imitate gestures on the iphone. i know on my wizard i could adjust the touch scrolling sensitivity through schaps advanced configuration tool, but i'm not sure if you can do that with the touch pro. its all about how much force/speed you use on the TP.
i know you can get used to it, and it will function properly, but it is definitely different from the iphone. good luck!
Thanks guys. Both of your replies are most helpful. I began to fear that my unit had a fault in it. Seems to make sense that is how it works after I understand it. I most appreciate the responses. Thanks.
mobiler said:
Thanks guys. Both of your replies are most helpful. I began to fear that my unit had a fault in it. Seems to make sense that is how it works after I understand it. I most appreciate the responses. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will get better results using software designed from the ground up to be finger-friendly e.g. touchflo3d works well with only light pressure, and for contacts pocketcm also scrolls with only light pressure.
http://www.pocketcm.com/
Surur
On the plus side, the Touch pro(and all other non-capacitance screens) are less picky. I noticed that if you use fingernails on an iPhone it will ignore you. you have to touch with your finger. Our screen will respond to anything that touches it...pen, fingernail, rock. There are +/- s to both. Just have to get used to the change.
yeah pocketcm is great for scrolling also there is pointui if you dont like touchflo that is a free app that redoes the interface all scrolling too
and i usually use my fingernail for most stuff instead of my finger
jblakk said:
On the plus side, the Touch pro(and all other non-capacitance screens) are less picky. I noticed that if you use fingernails on an iPhone it will ignore you. you have to touch with your finger. Our screen will respond to anything that touches it...pen, fingernail, rock. There are +/- s to both. Just have to get used to the change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used a metal key depth gauge, and though it felt smooth, it put a nice scratch on the screen. It was a new replacement, and I hadn't got the screen protector yet. Good thing I'm not an anal OCD-head
Stylus' (Styli?) seem to be out of fashion at the moment, but they are far more accurate for doing work in spreadsheets and other applications with lots of data on the screen.
kHiTe said:
Stylus' (Styli?) seem to be out of fashion at the moment, but they are far more accurate for doing work in spreadsheets and other applications with lots of data on the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed, i have no problem being a "geek" and whipping out the stylus, especially when it magnetically snaps back in
is there a way of using stylus in capacitive screens?
Our fingers eletricity shouldnt be conducted through the stylus metal and reach the screen? Why it doesnt work?
is it true that HTC G1 is capacitive?
G1 is capacitive
Its not so much conducting electricity, more of eminating an electric field. i know there are certain "silver fingered" gloves that let you use the ipod/iphone with gloves on, and i would guess that there are capacitive styli as well, but i havent gone searching one out.
m.carroll said:
G1 is capacitive
Its not so much conducting electricity, more of eminating an electric field. i know there are certain "silver fingered" gloves that let you use the ipod/iphone with gloves on, and i would guess that there are capacitive styli as well, but i havent gone searching one out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oic, that would be nice... capacitive with stylus
respider said:
is there a way of using stylus in capacitive screens?
Our fingers eletricity shouldnt be conducted through the stylus metal and reach the screen? Why it doesnt work?
is it true that HTC G1 is capacitive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=432122
m.carroll said:
agreed, i have no problem being a "geek" and whipping out the stylus, especially when it magnetically snaps back in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been whipping it out in public since the Palm 3.
I sometimes feel that Windows Mobile doesn't make the best use of Stylus input compared to Palm OS (tap a time to create a new appointment for example) but both zip along compared to finger presses on the iPhone for most serious work.
mobiler said:
Ever since I got my brand new HTC Touch Pro I noticed the screen to be way less sensitive than my girlfriend's iPhone.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's due to the resistive touchscreen. it's less sensitive than the capacitive screen in the iphone.
but the touch pro screen is actually less sensitive than other htc resistive touchscreens such as the kaiser. it's much less sensitive e.g. near the edges of the screen because of the bezel underneath, you need to press harder at the edges to get it to register a touch.
this is not a rant thread but what is what is what is the hype about capacitive screens?
for one i enjoy using my nails to click stuffs on the phone and wont this be more precise?
i do not have the fortune to have a capacitive phone before but i really want to know what is so good about this?
So many pple cant be wrong right?????????
(p/s I WANT A HTC TOUCH HD 2 NOW )
First post in a long time!!!!
Well, maybe some of you have noted that i was not posting haha. its because im busy at school.. all those knowledge things etc.
Ok, when i saw that title i was already thinking in something that could make a revolutionary change O:!!
Actually, you can fit a resistive screen layer on a capacitive screen surface.
Just with the needed configuration, driver and alternation between screens (ie: using resistive for pen works as writing programs and capacitive for multi-touching things)
Imagine, using the fingertip to scroll smoothly and writing with a pen at the same time ;D! (Just an idea... no one would do that, but anyone could do ;D)
Just with the right libaries, drivers, software and OS modifications.
cuff cuff M$ could try this on its phone or for the new wm7 cuff cuff...
Just an idea ;D!
See ya !!
The sensitivity!!! Can someone confirm if the HTC HD2 has the same sensitivity to the iphone? I know it will be much better than resistive...
leobox1 said:
i do not have the fortune to have a capacitive phone before but i really want to know what is so good about this?So many pple cant be wrong right?????????
(p/s I WANT A HTC TOUCH HD 2 NOW )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
leo... while your waiting on the LEO, just go to an at&t store and play with one on an iphonie
capacitive means that you can put a screen protector on it and it will be pretty much just as sensitive =]
but perhaps the best part is that you can just glide your finger over the surface and it will respond...resistive screens are much less sensitive.
I have read somewhere that HTC was working on a capacitive stylus though..sothat would be the best of both worlds =]
am i right to assume,
resistive = precise but not sensitive
capacitive = not precise but sensitive
Isaygarcia said:
First post in a long time!!!!
Well, maybe some of you have noted that i was not posting haha. its because im busy at school.. all those knowledge things etc.
Ok, when i saw that title i was already thinking in something that could make a revolutionary change O:!!
Actually, you can fit a resistive screen layer on a capacitive screen surface.
Just with the needed configuration, driver and alternation between screens (ie: using resistive for pen works as writing programs and capacitive for multi-touching things)
Imagine, using the fingertip to scroll smoothly and writing with a pen at the same time ;D! (Just an idea... no one would do that, but anyone could do ;D)
Just with the right libaries, drivers, software and OS modifications.
cuff cuff M$ could try this on its phone or for the new wm7 cuff cuff...
Just an idea ;D!
See ya !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wont it be thick? the screen..
leobox1 said:
this is not a rant thread but what is what is what is the hype about capacitive screens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Resistive screens work by detecting pressure, so you have to press on them, sometimes quite hard. Capacitive screens can detect the lightest of touches. So capacitive screens tend to be more responsive. If you're trying to type on an on-screen keyboard at speed then a capacitive screen is usually far better - you can actually type rapidly rather than having to methodically press. each. key. one. at. a. time.
Another important difference is that, for practical purposes, resistive screens cannot support multi-touch - they can only detect being pressed in one place at once. That means they can't do things like iPhone-style pinch-zooming which requires the phone to track you pressing in two different places at the same time. (There are multi-touch resistive displays but they're too expensive or difficult to use on a device like a phone).
The upside of resistive screens is that you can press them with almost anything. A conventional stylus won't work on a capacitive screen, neither will your fingernail - only skin. So you can't stab the screen with a convenient pen-top, and it won't work if you're wearing gloves. There has been some work done on creating special capacitive styluses - I'm not sure how well they work in practice and they're not yet widely available.
skulk3r said:
capacitive means that you can put a screen protector on it and it will be pretty much just as sensitive =]
but perhaps the best part is that you can just glide your finger over the surface and it will respond...resistive screens are much less sensitive.
I have read somewhere that HTC was working on a capacitive stylus though..sothat would be the best of both worlds =]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A capacitive one works like the touchpad of a laptop. Sometimes i would prefer a capacitive screen on my Touch HD but sometimes even not. Because you can get much easylier error inputs with a capacitive screen. It just needs that your finger touchs slidly the screen and a input is made. But with a resistive screen you really have to press on it.
A screen with both tecs would be nice, have read something about this, but don´t remember who is inventing this.
Don't know if it's because it's capacitive, but the iPhone screen always seems more readable in direct sunlight compared to my Touch Pro (or Touch 3G, or Touch).
For me personally, I think the problems of cold hands or a stylus not being able to work the screen outweigh the benefits. I also can't get my head around pinch to zoom - I love watching iPhone users trying to demonstrate the feature with one hand, sort of juggling it around trying not to drop it. I prefer double tapping on the bit you want to zoom in on. I can't wait to play with a Leo and see which works best in a 'Windows Phone' environment.
Ouzo said:
For me personally, I think the problems of cold hands or a stylus not being able to work the screen outweigh the benefits. I also can't get my head around pinch to zoom - I love watching iPhone users trying to demonstrate the feature with one hand, sort of juggling it around trying not to drop it. I prefer double tapping on the bit you want to zoom in on. I can't wait to play with a Leo and see which works best in a 'Windows Phone' environment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well obviously pinch-zoom is not designed to work one-handed, but then neither is using a stylus. One advantage of pinch-zoom is that it lets you pick which part of the screen you want to zoom in on and exactly how much you want to zoom in by. Using a zoom-bar doesn't give you any control over where it zooms - it'll always pick (say) the top left hand corner of the screen as a reference point; double-tapping lets you pick where to zoom, but not by how much. Other solutions require additional gestures or presses. Pinch-zooming is also extremely intuitive - non-technical people get the hang of it instantly. Other types of multi-touch gesture are often very intuitive too; for example, running Google Earth on the iPhone, if you want to rotate the map you simply take hold of it and twist.
I think it's interesting how many people were claiming that resistive is better than capacitive whenever they were trying to bash the iphone, yet now those same people can't wait to get their hands on the Leo's capacitive screen.
Personally, I'd rather have resistive. The difference in sensitivity isn't great (so many HD reviews said how close it was to the sensitivity of the iphone). Multitouch is overrated. You can easily zoom in and out with a circle motion on a resistive screen. For me, neither of those capacitive advantages comes close to the benefit of being able to select with a stylus far more accurately than you ever can with a finger. No need to pinch-zoom in to select that link on a web page, or to select a cell in a spreadsheet. That's what's important to me.
capacitive is not good for drawing precise pics right?
HP tablet laptops have some hybrid of resistive and capacitive screens. They have a switch on the side that flicks between them and so they support multi-touch AND stylus
HP Laptop
My mates got one and its dead impressive. Just a shame the screens only 12" If they had them on 17" laptops like the one im using i'd be well up for it!
Capacitive and pinch zoom are both well overrated!
I can touch the screen of my X1 and it responds - no pressure. And I can zoom in by double tapping. Can't see what all the fuss is about to be honest. Probably something started by iPhone fanboys!
Ouzo said:
For me personally, I think the problems of cold hands or a stylus not being able to work the screen outweigh the benefits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree. I don't want to lose the accuracy of a stylus. Why should I have to zoom in to click a small link with a fat finger, when I can click it unzoomed with a stylus? Same with a cell on a spreadsheet.
Multitouch is just a gimmick that really doesn't add anything useful. Either double tap or use the circle gesture to zoom/unzoom.
RIM applied for a patent for a dual capacitive/resistive screen about a month or two.. so someone is working on it.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/05/rim-patent-filing-reveals-hybrid-capacitive-resistive-touchscr/
Monty Burns said:
HP tablet laptops have some hybrid of resistive and capacitive screens. They have a switch on the side that flicks between them and so they support multi-touch AND stylus
HP Laptop
My mates got one and its dead impressive. Just a shame the screens only 12" If they had them on 17" laptops like the one im using i'd be well up for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats my laptop, did not know it had a hybrid screen. there no switch on the side, the pen works and the multi touch works (i think, if i press in 2 places it the marker goes to the middle) without press any switch.
People who say there x1, diamond 2s and so one are as sensitive as an iPhone, have not tried seeing how gently you can touch it.
I do like capacitives screens, but I will feel lost without a stylus.
Has anyone else noticed on the iPhone, it doesnt respond to a touch with a nail, but if you touch with you finger and then without taking your finger off put it so only your nail is on the screen it still responds!?
Hopefully HTC will soon release the capacitive stylus that isnt a joke like the pogostick one.
Shasarak does make a very good point though regarding the extra operation being involved after double tapping in a particular area - I guess I'm taking the 'scroll wheel' on my Touch Pro for granted and using it to do the second operation without even thinking about it ; )
As an aside, boy would I like to see physical scroll wheels with navipads underneath make a return, not to mention dedicated camera buttons!
just got my Acer Liquid with android.
i cant use my finger nail to touch the screen or use the onscreen keyboard with nail!
it' so much easier with resistance screen to use nail and 1 hand use!
you could glue a small magnet under your fingernail
i dont understand all this hype about capacitive screen. it really hard to type onscreen with finger and not nail!
and i dont understand all the hype about htc hd2 with capacitive screen, i dont want no freaking capcative screen!
i thinking of selling my acer liquid, i really dont like capcative screen!
Get used to it. It looks like all the begging and hype for capacitive means its not going away any time soon. Instead resistive seems to be on its last days.
I have heard though that someone was working on a dual cap/res screen. Now that would be useful.
jagnet said:
Get used to it. It looks like all the begging and hype for capacitive means its not going away any time soon. Instead resistive seems to be on its last days.
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then i'm going to keep my Acer S200 neotouch with 1G cpu for awhile! just tried texting on capactive screen with 1 hand, and u have to press the whole thumb on screen and u always get the wrong letter. haha
i going to sell my Acer Liquid just got it today! email me if you in USA! haha
netnerd said:
then i'm going to keep my Acer S200 neotouch with 1G cpu for awhile! just tried texting on capactive screen with 1 hand, and u have to press the whole thumb on screen and u always get the wrong letter. haha
i going to sell my Acer Liquid just got it today! email me if you in USA! haha
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you got mail.
where are you located?
Assume this is the Euro version?
With capacitive screens you have to almost touch above where you want. Not just and edge of where you want. It's hard but you get used to it. I much prefer resistive though and that's why I won't buy the HD2 or the Hero. Eventhough I want Hero so bad.
I've havd plenty exprience with both types of screens and can do everything better on resistive. I can type so much faster and accurate and can hit the smallest of links.
Capcitive screens require large screens and buttons to work right. Why do you think all the icons and buttons on the iphone are big? Not cause your grandma wouldn't be able to see them if they were small but because it's more accurate if they are big. That way you don't have to be exact. You can be sloppy with the touches and still get what you want.
I pref capa they can take more abuse
and don't require as much pressure
Rudegar said:
I pref capa they can take more abuse
and don't require as much pressure
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True but having that little pressure gives you more control of where you want to touch. And I like setting my thumb on the screen wthout actually pressing something unless I want.
Being able to press on the keyboard gives you a better feel and more control of hitting the right letter and faster because it feels more natueral.
But to each his own. Each has their pros and cons it's up to the individual to choose which combo of pros vs cons they prefer.
I would take accuracy and pressure presses over light presses and multi touch any day.
Resistive is getting more sensitive as the years go by. So I wouldn't call the tech dead. Resistive can also do multi touch. But Drivers and such have to be created and also the OS has to support it.
This is where I get confused. My fuze (Raphael) has a resistive screen but a capacitative d-pad. I have gscroll, which allows gestures and tapping on the d-pad. It may be a little less sensitive than using a finger, but it also responds fine to a nail. Maybe screen construction is different, though.
Yeah, and i got rid of my palm pre for the same reason, couldn't use it on my motorbike with the gloves on, went back to resistive with the acer f1, now biking and texting at the same time (NOT !)....
So far, I am underwhelmed by capacitive screen on Hero
HTC Touch Freak said:
With capacitive screens you have to almost touch above where you want. Not just and edge of where you want. It's hard but you get used to it.
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I'm not used to it yet, but I've only been using my Hero for about a week... Right now it's stock from HTC, not rooted, so I have not even consulted the Hero thread here yet to see what tricks and rigs they've got going.
While I will agree it is smoother to touch and glide/slide your finger across screen to scroll or flip to next page, truthfully, even on my T-Mobile Wing, old tech but made golden by the ROM chefs and app developers, I have had no problem for years flipping up down in iContact contact list, and more recently on Nitrogen song lists, or through a long file directory via Total Commander. In fact, I have, so far, felt that on the resistive screen, a flick up or down can be done with different force or speed, and results in different speed of scrolling through the list and where the screen lands at stop... whereas on my capcitive screen Hero, when I am flicking up down a long list of Gmails, I seem to only get one speed, and it's very incremental, I can't flick it to get down to the bottom of the list as I have been able to do on my little old T-Mobile QVGA Wing.
Same with browsing a webpage, especially a long article, and wanting to flick to the bottom... Can't do it (yet, again, not sure what the rooted Heroes with XDA ROMS do there) on my capacitive Hero.
Likewise, take the newest UI app made for WM (resistive) devices: Androkkid from Simo -- It has a UI like the Hero/Android, and it is so easy to swipe the screen left to right to flick to next and previous pages. It glides, no resistance... on the resistive screen !
Now THAT move on the Hero's capacitive screen is for sure much smoother and requires the lightest of touches. So, win 1 for capacitive.
And with s2v (slide to view) and various photo apps including rescoe viewer, a quick rotational arc gesture of my finger on the screen flipped a photo from landscape to portrait -- not simply for viewing (which accelerometers arguably do simpler, but I have not found it the case yet; there's lag time) -- but also for cropping and editing a picture.
One of the big arguments FOR capacitive screens is multi-touch and the squeezing and pinching to control zoom levels. That myth got shattered with browsers like Opera mini 4.2 and skyfire, and Netfront and Iris, etc. Tap-tap to zoom is SO much easier, and less RSI (repetitive stress) on finger muscles just to perform these multiple pinch and squeeze actions. I have seen ZERO value so far in this supposed selling point of capacitive screens. And, conversely, the resistive screens handle zooms and size changes fairly effortlessly, and very intuitively. So, to me, that's a win for resistive.
I don't get it (yet)... I have found no gestures on the Hero, like swiping right to left to go BACK on a website, or in any app. As much as I absolutely love this new Hero, I didn't want this to be the case, but the ergonomics of holding the device, hitting the hardkey back button (which requires a serious push, not a soft touch), as well as having to push a manual key for MENU options? All really taxing on one's hands and finger muscles even after a short while like 15 minutes straight.
Please someone tell me that XDA has given the Hero, and its capcitive screen all sorts of really simple and smooth to touch gestures that I can program to replace any hardkey function, especially: Back key, Menu key, and even volume controls.... All much easier to control on the resistive screen. Slider control actions like a touchscreen volume control left to right? As many have said, the target area for the finger to hit the control is very unforgiving... I've had to try again several times in a row... vs on resistive screen, such controls are so easy to control , whether with my full finger tip, or with a fingernail, and the precise control of stopping and sliding is more precise on resistive, in my view. Again, win for resistive.
I much prefer resistive though and that's why I won't buy the HD2 or the Hero. Eventhough I want Hero so bad.
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Are you paying attention? I can't quite say I am disapponted with the hero, because it is a stunning phone, with a great UI, and beautiful screen, and yes, shiny and elegant, with a great build quality. But if I can't discover gestures or ways to use touchscreen controls to bypass these hard-buttons, i can for sure say, no, it will grow tiring, I hate to say. Though again, i do not know what the new firmware will do, both Android's 2.1 and HTC's sense upgrade. (I know this has nothing to do with cap vs res screen, but I am really surprised by how stiff the hard buttons are on the hero. They feel like first generation calculators, vs the light touch keyboards from apple, for example.
I've havd plenty exprience with both types of screens and can do everything better on resistive. I can type so much faster and accurate and can hit the smallest of links.
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Resistive wins HUGE here. I almost never used the hard keyboard on my wing. I have always preferred an on screen keyboard, for rapid entry, and composing longer messages. And the app I used this past year on my Wing is Finger Keyboard -- oh my god it is so more advanced than even the HTC soft keyboard on the Hero that is the makeover for the default android soft keyboard. From the UI and color differentiation of FingerKeyboard, to its multi-functions and programmable shortcut phrases, to the real petal to the metal consideration of my fingers hitting all the right keys -- FAR greater accuracy on the resistive keyboard with my finger, and, like you i do like using a stylus for tapping out longer messages, or for entering long passwords that are combos of numbers and letters, cap and lower case. The rapid tap sequencing on that resistive screen using a stylus to accomplish that is easily 3 times faster to enter a complex username and password for sites that require it. A big win for resistive. Not even close.
Capcitive screens require large screens and buttons to work right. Why do you think all the icons and buttons on the iphone are big? Not cause your grandma wouldn't be able to see them if they were small but because it's more accurate if they are big. That way you don't have to be exact. You can be sloppy with the touches and still get what you want.
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But I will quibble: I don't think the decision tree of how to design the iphone began with -- oh, looks like we're going to need big icons because we're using capacitive screens. I think more likely it was Jobs swooningly saying "how do we fundamentally change the user experience of using a touch screen phone... And I'll bet that whole pinch zoom thing was more of the driver of "we MUST have multi-touch; therefore capacitive"... and the bigger icons were absolutely a usability design issue that solved for rapid selection of a large variety of items, even if the phone is mounted in your car near the steering wheel. I have to say, that was breakthrough thinking on their part, and the icon size issue should not be minimized as a "must make do with" reaction to the target accuracy of capacitive screens.
But yeah, I am with the original poster. But since I am new to capacitive all together, I am guessing there has been thread after thread of this same discussion 200 times over since the first iphone came out, and people were comparing it to WM devices.
So I hope someone can nevertheless explain to me: WHAT is the alleged advantage of capacitive other than pinch-zoom? I don;t get it at all.
Sadly
I think it is because WM is heading a a very very user friendly interface. Like the phone. There are trying to dumb the whole o.s. down and have the same things as the iphone has, to remain in the smart phone wars. Think this is all because of stupid apple
I agree, it's all a big trend to follow the iphone, a pity it's going to ruin whats great about WM in the process
I love my hero because of the capa screen, it looks so much better than the resistive ones, colour/clarity ect. i dont have to keep askin my mates " have you seen my stylus" lol and i dropped my ash tray on my hero the other day and not one scratch on the screen lol id hate to see the damage to my touch pro's screen if i did that lol
mancsoulja said:
I love my hero because of the capa screen, it looks so much better than the resistive ones, colour/clarity ect. i dont have to keep askin my mates " have you seen my stylus" lol and i dropped my ash tray on my hero the other day and not one scratch on the screen lol id hate to see the damage to my touch pro's screen if i did that lol
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Just because it is a capacitative screen doesn't mean that it is made of glass...
And I just can't wait till the multi-touch for resistive screens gets ported over to the TP2. It's already been proven to be possible on a larger screen, but hopefully it'll work on smaller screens. Still like resistive more than capacitative.
Most of the latest smartphones and upcoming phones appear to have capacative screens and they seem to be the preferred type. However, I still use a resistive screen and I recently borrowed an HTC HD2 with capactive screen and I was not that impressed.
Certainly, they do resopond to a lighter touch but for me that was an irritation as I would regularly accidentally touch/select something by mistake. My Touch Pro2 resistive screen does not require much more pressure on the screen but just enough that it is hard to select something accidentally. I also like to use my finger nail to select which of course you cannot do with a capactive screen. Selecting some of the smaller menus in Windows Mobile is quite difficult on a capactive screen.
The other reason I like using my finger nail is to minimize finger marks on the screen. I noticed when using a capactive screen that it was covered in finger marks very quickly.
So, are capactive screens really "better"? I have held off upgrading my Touch Pro2 as I do not think that capactive screens are better than some of the latter resistive screens. However, it seems that if I do want to upgrade my phone in due course I am going to have to go with a capactive screen.
Maybe my Touch Pro2 will serve me for a while longer yet!
Well,first off,windows mobile isn't so finger friendly.If you use android with a capacitive screen it's much more pleasant.Secondly,capacitive screens allow the use of better materials like glass,which are more scratch-proof(see HTC HD2 and knife video at youtube to see what I mean),offer better image quality and phones using capacitive screens can be thinner.There is more,but that's what I can think of now!
Hope it helps!
It depends on what you're using it in, but I prefer a nice resistive screen over capacitive: almost as sensitive, and you can use a stylus. Although I have yet to see a multitouch resistive screen on winmo.
Yes capasitive is way way way better and more responsive. You can't stylus it in fine detail like a resistive LCD but the capasitive screens are super sensetive and you don't have to hit the same button like 3 times. On the other hand if you looking to hit a tiny small little spot its sometimes kinda hard with the capasitive LCD, but can be done with a lil practice and knowledge of how it works.
I tell people to get the HD2 over any old winmo phone even if it's just for the capacitive screen.
Windows Mobile and resistive screens always went together because resistive screens supported stylus input, necessary to hit WM's ridiculously small buttons. Nowadays Android, iOS, and Windows Phone 7 have been re-imagined with finger usage in mind and a capacitive touchscreen is by far the best way to control a phone with just your finger. Personally, I never liked the "feel" of resistive screens, whether I was using a stylus or my finger; it's hard to pinpoint exactly what I mean, but when I switched to capacitive I had no desire to return to resistive.
All that said, resistive is still the king for any sort of handwriting recognition or things that require the precision only a stylus can supply.
Yeah once you try capacitive properly you'll never go back... being able to TOUCH not PRESS is so much better, makes the touchscreen interface much more pleasant. Its better for not just pressing, but sliding etc.
Not to mention mulitouch
Although not winmo, a good device that I'd consider an upgrade to a Touch Pro2 with a resistive screen is the Nokia N900. It's sensitive enough that a fairly light touch works fine, but not overly that accidental touches will register.
I do personally like capactive screens though, on most phones.
I'm a fan of resistive screens, if you are using VNC etc to control a desktop machine
from your phone you really need a stylus.
For everday phone use capacitative is better..
Problem with the HD2 is that the screen sensitivity is very high, especially in the 1.48 ROM that most devices ship with. I am using a custom ROM and then I also reduce the screen sensitivity using BsB Tweaks and precision is very good.
I wonder if they will come out with a capacitive screen pen to be able to use handwriting recognition on the newer screens. I am old school and did not learn typing, so I am a multi-finger hunt and peck kind of guy when I type, although with only being able to use two thumbs or less on the phones pop up keyboard I do not think I would have too much trouble if I lost the ability to handwrite. I just find writing more natural. I really like my handwriting recognition on my Fuze.
maxpower097 said:
but the capasitive screens are super sensetive and you don't have to hit the same button like 3 times.
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It's WM fault, not screen fault. Try high-quality restive screens with Symbian (N97), no need to re-hit
My vote is for resistive. Most productivity software (like Excel Mobile) works MUCH better with a stylus. I can comfortably and accurately work with EM at 50% zoom on a Fuze. Except for dialing and SMS, I use the stylus for everything. No matter how sensitive capacitive is, you will never be as accurate with your finger as a stylus.
I'm just getting a tp2 now. I think it's going to be my last phone for a LONG while. I need a resistive screen and slideout keyboard, since my only concern is being productive with productivity software. I don't know of any phones in the works that offer the combination I need.
Well,when speaking about hardware and screen size like the Hero's then yes,resistive might be more accurate(for me not better at any rate),but when speaking about high-end phones,such as the Desire(Classic,HD and Z) or the Galaxy S,with so much power and such big screens,all this talk about them lacking accuracy is complete mumbo-jumbo(I'd be rude if I said bull****,wouldn't I? ).Have you ever tried these phones actually?They make my (old) Diamond's screen seem like a child's toyphone or some badly made copy of a current phone.
Plus the fact that with resistive you can use high-quality glass with scratch proof coatings instead of plastic is a huge advantage for me!
Just my opinion though!
The only thing I like about capacitative screens are the durability aspect. The biggest thing I hate? Can't use anything but your finger (those fat styluses are just as good as using your finger...). I'd go capacitative anytime though just for durability. I like knowing that my device will last.