Related
Forgive this for being a noob question, but I can't figure out how to actually use VoIP in WM6.
The only options I can find are to either turn it on or off, I can't find any options to set the SIP server or anything like that.
poedgirl said:
Forgive this for being a noob question, but I can't figure out how to actually use VoIP in WM6.
The only options I can find are to either turn it on or off, I can't find any options to set the SIP server or anything like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Atm. you can't.....
Eelco
try SJphone for WLAN-PDA with Windows CE
http://www.sjlabs.com/sjp.html
it's free
I don't want a 3rd party app, I just want to know how to use the one in WM6. I'm using Jwrightmcps's ROM and would like to use the feature that's in it.
poedgirl said:
I don't want a 3rd party app, I just want to know how to use the one in WM6. I'm using Jwrightmcps's ROM and would like to use the feature that's in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi.
So far there are 2 issues related to any Crossbow WM6 rom.
1. Video call doesnot work.
2. VOIP doesnot work.
So those who have questions related to this please wait for updates that
the developers will keep posting and one day we will all have this two
applications working.
aniel1 said:
Hi.
So far there are 2 issues related to any Crossbow WM6 rom.
1. Video call doesnot work.
2. VOIP doesnot work.
So those who have questions related to this please wait for updates that
the developers will keep posting and one day we will all have this two
applications working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg to differ. See my post http://cleanimport.xda/index.php?threads/299950/.
I don't know about a video call, but I could get VoIP working on my WM6-Wizard-Orwell customized ROM. In regard of technology used (OMA Client Provisioning), it should work on all WM6 ROM meetings the requirements listed at the begining of my thread.
Regards,
-- eluth.
Thanks. I must have missed out on your post.
aniel1 said:
Thanks. I must have missed out on your post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello aniel1,
I don't think you did, as I posted it in the development forum a couple of hours a go. I added some links here and there to point back people, as this should be a hardware independent generic WM6 feature.
Regards,
--eluth.
eluth said:
Hello aniel1,
I don't think you did, as I posted it in the development forum a couple of hours a go. I added some links here and there to point back people, as this should be a hardware independent generic WM6 feature.
Regards,
--eluth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for posting out details on setup. However, I think most of the files are missing in the rom I have which is Jwright.
So I guess i have to wait for revisions for next update
eluth said:
Hello aniel1,
I don't think you did, as I posted it in the development forum a couple of hours a go. I added some links here and there to point back people, as this should be a hardware independent generic WM6 feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
eluth, firstly, nice work on the VOIP activation, secondly, which ROM are you using?
Thanks SpyderTracks,
I'm using a Wizard with my own customized Orwell1984 based WM6 ROM.
--eluth.
eluth said:
Thanks SpyderTracks,
I'm using a Wizard with my own customized Orwell1984 based WM6 ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will check out your thread now and give it a go. Fingers crossed
works great
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=596682 . d
No, you can use Voip on universal, If you cook your own ROM, you can add iut in
Ok guys, so WM6 on Tornado exists (currently running on my device as we speak). But there are quite a few things we need to sort out before it can be released 'En Masse' Before this time I will ignore ALL PMs asking for the ROM.
There is a WM6 comments/suggestion/speculation thread HERE. Feel free to put in requests for embedded apps etc, but please realise we won't be able to put in EVERYTHING. So when the ROM is at a more completed stage we will draw up a shortlist for the apps etc to be embedded and let you vote it out
Current Issues:
Still has identifying build numbers etc to my source
Doesn't sync at all with a PC but will sync over exchange
It says WM5 with MSFP when its really WM6 (OS 5.2.xxx)
No Camera
No MMS
Issues fixed:
Wifi not accessable - new comm manager
No Office (fixed with a cab)
No t9 - updated to xT9 with 14 languages (fixed with a cab)
WLM is still beta and so needs removing and then updating (fixed with WLM RTM cab)
Things we need from a Tornado WM5 ROM
Camera.exe with all the mui extensions
Lets keep this thread clean, ok? I don't want sh!t loads of n00bs saying "where can I download ROM?". So, before you ask, here's my answer. YOU CAN'T DOWNLOAD IT UNTIL ITS FINISHED!!!!
If a mod could remove such posts i'd be forever grateful
Please only post if you have information regarding how to fix the issues I've outlined above.
Phil
So... i am Alex from ronswens forum. i promise to fix that if you give me the rom and you can contact me via ICQ .. we need at least 3 tests - first, we upgrade xip, then new os build and then fix the camera...
T9 now fixed, office added, WLM fixed
Phil
@sp3dev, unfortunatley i dont have ICQ, do you have an MSN email address?
Phil
isnt there someone already working on this?
guy called duke_stiks
anyway good luck with the developing and fixing of this.
sandman_06 said:
isnt there someone already working on this?
guy called duke_stiks
anyway good luck with the developing and fixing of this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is the sort of n00b-ish comment jm012a9749's trying to avoid in this thread.
I mean, honestly, do you think he believes he's the only one to have attained a tornado version? Come on...
Look, this guy is aware of Duke's efforts, heck we all are, but the more people who get involved, the more efficiently we can get a polished product. There's no guarantee that Duke nor jm012a9749 will be able to do anything, so why should any of us sit back and not get involved? Besides, Duke himself has mentioned that he needs help since he's not an experienced Rom cooker.
Sorry for the rant here, but this sort of attitude really bothers me. Saying "oh, someone's already doing that, sit back and don't waste your time" is why certain projects never see the light of day...
Please only post helpful information or questions!
you can fix activesync by replacing the usbfn.dll file.
sp3dev said:
So... i am Alex from ronswens forum. i promise to fix that if you give me the rom and you can contact me via ICQ - 336030424.. we need at least 3 tests - first, we upgrade xip, then new os build and then fix the camera...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alex would you please tell me the new address of ronswens forum?
as usual, ronswens.jconserv.net. as for active sync, i remember those early builds missed actsync.dll.. but better give me the rom, i will use build 17xxx from excalibur and drivers, camera, t9 etc from wm5
Dishe said:
I think this is the sort of n00b-ish comment jm012a9749's trying to avoid in this thread.
I mean, honestly, do you think he believes he's the only one to have attained a tornado version? Come on...
Look, this guy is aware of Duke's efforts, heck we all are, but the more people who get involved, the more efficiently we can get a polished product. There's no guarantee that Duke nor jm012a9749 will be able to do anything, so why should any of us sit back and not get involved? Besides, Duke himself has mentioned that he needs help since he's not an experienced Rom cooker.
Sorry for the rant here, but this sort of attitude really bothers me. Saying "oh, someone's already doing that, sit back and don't waste your time" is why certain projects never see the light of day...
Please only post helpful information or questions!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, since day 1 I've been working with duke_stix to help get a working version of crossbow. However now that I've made some progress and actually HAVE a device myself to test on, I felt it was nessary to start a new thread dedicated to it rather than the old dump rom thread
@faria, will try this later, thanks for the advice
Phil
More info on the missing USB sync... under connections, 'USB isnt listed.
Idea's?
Phil
Camera Software
Hi, I found this camera software. Its the one they using in WM6 i think. (Its kinda like the one on my Vox) Im using it on my tronado, and it works with some cert fixes.
Hope this helps
will you be tweaking the rom for speed/performace on the tornado?
sandman_06 said:
will you be tweaking the rom for speed/performace on the tornado?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seriously sandman,you are not helping!!! am sorry for ranting but like what the thread starter said NO NOOB posting!!! sheesh man!!! they are not "tweaking for performance" for crying out loud!!! they are cooking a wm6 rom!!!
How about we get the ROM fully functional BEFORE we start tweaking it
Phil
samyboy said:
Hi, I found this camera software. Its the one they using in WM6 i think. (Its kinda like the one on my Vox) Im using it on my tronado, and it works with some cert fixes.
Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks alot for that samyboy
Looks like were getting there with regards to functionality
Also does anybody have the Arcsoft MMS client? I've been searching for a while now but no dice. Also could do with the default windows task manager as well.
Phil
Stuff
Maybe you can find some useful stuff here:
http://218.93.115.138/d900/
You can have the WIFI option appear on its current Comm Manager thru Registry.. i have tried it and it worked.. but anyway, glad the new Comm Manager worked also..
The new comm manager also has flight mode, beam and IP Phone buttons on it
Phil
I don't know if we have the same build or version jm012a9749 but the following bugs are present on mine..
"BETA" text on the homescreen
FIX:
HKLM - Software - Miscrosoft - Shell
DELETE - "DeviceBETA" key
You can't open the Sound in Settings (Settings - Sounds)
Culprit could be the file soundsgsm.cpl.xml on /windows/ directory
I just got my new Tornado again awhile ago, and hoping that i could help this team in any way..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=310380
If you have one, can I get a copy of the cab you use to update your WAP settings for your individual carrier? I already have the Cingular one, but others like T-Mobile and such.
I'm working on an extended rom building tool, and need some "sample" setups to work with.
mattk_r said:
If you have one, can I get a copy of the cab you use to update your WAP settings for your individual carrier? I already have the Cingular one, but others like T-Mobile and such.
I'm working on an extended rom building tool, and need some "sample" setups to work with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd love to get ahold of the Faria app that runs when you start your WM6 device that allows you to pick your service provider and installs the WAP settings...anyone have this...Faria???
WAP cab
Shawner said:
I'd love to get ahold of the Faria app that runs when you start your WM6 device that allows you to pick your service provider and installs the WAP settings...anyone have this...Faria???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have it , 'll upload later ( I can not upload it right now)
If you use search will find it in this forum only. I am sure you do not want me to search for you.
Shawner said:
I'd love to get ahold of the Faria app that runs when you start your WM6 device that allows you to pick your service provider and installs the WAP settings...anyone have this...Faria???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow, even better. do please upload!
banerjeez said:
I have it , 'll upload later ( I can not upload it right now)
If you use search will find it in this forum only. I am sure you do not want me to search for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whats the status of this? I'm eager to get this app.
There are links in the 2nd post of Crossbow Reloaded 1.5 and 1.7 that have a list of GPRS/MMS setups for various places. May help you out some.
mfrazzz said:
There are links in the 2nd post of Crossbow Reloaded 1.5 and 1.7 that have a list of GPRS/MMS setups for various places. May help you out some.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks mfrazzz - I hadn't noticed that! I'm still stalled on the true definition of the extended ROM vs the 'psudo' extended rom and how they utilize ROM space. I took a few days off and want to get this nailed down.
Thanks again!
Faria's Operator Config software
Hi all,
This is exactly the software I was talking about in post #3 of the post install script thread...
As Faria is going to be unavailable on the forums for a while, I've taken the liberty of PM'ing Dr Puttingham to see if we need (and ask for) Faria's permission to use his operator config wizardry...
If Faria will let us use his stuff, I've already extracted the relevant Extended ROM and have to say, it's really rather clever.
I have an error about not signed with a trusted certificate, when i run the .cab with the greek operators. Is there any solution?
Sorry for the oftopic
Are you trying to run the operator config CAB from a running PPC, or from the Extended ROM after a flash? Whichever, you might find that running this first helps... (or it might not)
JoelC said:
Hi all,
This is exactly the software I was talking about in post #3 of the post install script thread...
As Faria is going to be unavailable on the forums for a while, I've taken the liberty of PM'ing Dr Puttingham to see if we need (and ask for) Faria's permission to use his operator config wizardry...
If Faria will let us use his stuff, I've already extracted the relevant Extended ROM and have to say, it's really rather clever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm SMS'ing Jose now. I don't imagine that he would mind being that you asked and I know you'll give credit where credit is due.
I'll keep you updated!
Appreciate you guys driving forward on this. I'm raking in the knowledge as fast as I can (while working anyway ) and it really looks like this is going somewhere great!
JoelC said:
Are you trying to run the operator config CAB from a running PPC, or from the Extended ROM after a flash? Whichever, you might find that running this first helps... (or it might not)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you a lot my friend! I just installed it, but keep having the same error...
The cab i found it here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1287319&postcount=2
GPRS MMS setting for greek users.
And the rom that i am using is the current reloaded 1.7
Thanx in advance
JoelC said:
Hi all,
This is exactly the software I was talking about in post #3 of the post install script thread...
As Faria is going to be unavailable on the forums for a while, I've taken the liberty of PM'ing Dr Puttingham to see if we need (and ask for) Faria's permission to use his operator config wizardry...
If Faria will let us use his stuff, I've already extracted the relevant Extended ROM and have to say, it's really rather clever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I was looking for initially. Thanks for your help and going to the source.
anyone have the old AT&T? like.. att b4 cingular?
-Nstefanelli-
@Dr Puttingham (and Faria of course) - thanks very much and I'll wait to hear...
@Shawner - you're welcome
Hi there,
My first ROM release.
I hope some of you like it.
As it is my first release I'd like to have feedback on it.
The ROM is cooked with the Phoenix Kitchen from this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=476015
Wm6.1 21109 rom.
I wanted to make a fast and stable rom without things I didn't need like MS voice command. I also took out manilla2d and chose to use HTC home instead.
the rom had a 3g Dialer with full video calling support.
Included Programs are:
HTC audio manager, iContact, G-Alarm, Pocket Notepad, NoData, Opera, ms voip plugin, Pocket RAR, S2U2 1.62, MS office, Camera 5.xx, Quick Position,
Total Commander, Advanced Config, Connection Setup, 9 button action screen on long press send button, 8 button comm manager (same skin as Dialer), Hardware keyboard speed increase tweak.
I also included a few freeware games, Rhodium Ringtone package ( and took out most standard windows mobile ringtones). and I took some drivers/packages out for things I never used or thought not necessary, packages are (from SYS folder): IPSECVPN packages, IRDA, Onenote, Remote Desktop, Transcriber and MS voicecommand. (These should be installable with standard cab files.)
I get 82.68 MB total Program Memory after hard reset, and 47,82 free after installing everything I use (like Igo8) and softreset.
Pagepool is set to Dynamic (if anyone has any suggestions about pagepool I'd like to hear it.)
Some Registry tweaks from the standard Phoenix rom are also still included, like setting camera shutter delay and end call delay to 0 ms, glyphcache, powermanagement tweaks, added Igo8.exe to S2U2 exception list, Disabling sliding sound.
Credits go to the Phoenix Development team of course for releasing their rom and their kitchen and for answering my cooking questions!
To Anryl for the Original Port used by the phoenix Development team and to Bepe for releasing the great kitchen tools I used!
I also have to thank A_C for his work on making S2U2 even better with his new password protection and Notification add-on.
and of course everyone who released freeware programs/packages/cabs/anything else I didn't make myself...
Download link:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C4XLF5Z1
Mirror:
http://rapidshare.com/files/218166076/Kaiser.rar (thanks to YouBou1992)
is it allowed guyz!! I would like dave & josh to confirm this. good work..
I'm sorry if it s not allowed...
Hope to get a confirmation!
Congrats on your first release sir, Put up that download link for us addict flashers
I guess that means It's allowed
Anyone know some better places to upload?
I could make a torrent, I can share up to 80kb/s upload, but don't know if torrents are allowed here?
Wonderful Mr.Josh, You are really a darling for novice like us. I was scared coz someone told me that modifying an already released ROM is not allowed. Thanks & Kudos to poster again.
Bonusbartus said:
I guess that means It's allowed
Anyone know some better places to upload?
I could make a torrent, I can share up to 80kb/s upload, but don't know if torrents are allowed here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would stick with what you got man. good job..
sakshamkatyal said:
Wonderful Mr.Josh, You are really a darling for novice like us. I was scared coz someone told me that modifying an already released ROM is not allowed. Thanks & Kudos to poster again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if it's cool with the original chef then go for it
joshkoss said:
if it's cool with the original chef then go for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope it's alright with them, as they released a kitchen with their rom as a basis....
Bonusbartus said:
I hope it's alright with them, as they released a kitchen with their rom as a basis....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
should be fine then since they release a kitchen for everyone to use
what about the name?
congrats man...ill try it..sounds tight..
although i cant speak for parley p (the phoenix chef) that he will be alright with it or not...he is one hell of a nice guy, not just an amazing chef...and i dont think that he would mind this being a modification of the kitchen he released to everyone...but....i think maybe u could change the name?
u see calling it a "modified phoenix" is kinda confusing as ppl might think it has something to do with the original PHOENIX rom series...sorta like copyright infringement lol...
so i think maybe changing the name of ur rom....and then keep the explanation that it is based on the PHOENIX rom kitchen..
just my humble 2 cents
congratz again
haha, I don't think Parley would care, might want to give it your own name, so people don't get confused. Parley wouldn't have released a kitchen if he didn't want people to modify the ROM, if you make something good, release it. You credited us for the kitchen, which is credited to bepe and Anryl as well, so it's all good unless parley thinks otherwise.
i already flash this... but somehow my ActiveSync won't connect... already hard reset twice... now i'm try to download another rom and try to flash... but i doubt i can because i didn't connected through activesync.
tugas2khas said:
i already flash this... but somehow my ActiveSync won't connect... already hard reset twice... now i'm try to download another rom and try to flash... but i doubt i can because i didn't connected through activesync.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I flashed this rom 4 times (each time with a lil change) and active sync works normally here,
I did have some problems with it a few days ago, but after going into task manager and shutting down "wcescomm.exe" "rapimagr.exe", shutting down active sync on my kaiser and then reconnecting problem was gone!
If problem stays, you can always flash from sdcard, just copy a rom to it,
rename it to KAISIMG.nbh and restart your kaiser
About a name... well if anyone has an idea, I didn't have much time to think of one cause I should be learning for a test tomorrow
Bonusbartus said:
About a name... well if anyone has an idea, I didn't have much time to think of one cause I should be learning for a test tomorrow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how about "the bonus rom" little word play from ur username plus it came from the phoenix kitchen so its a bonus for us
tugas2khas said:
i already flash this... but somehow my ActiveSync won't connect... already hard reset twice... now i'm try to download another rom and try to flash... but i doubt i can because i didn't connected through activesync.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure u can
put ur phone in boot loader mode and flash normally
mazin13 said:
how about "the bonus rom" little word play from ur username
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My username is already a wordplay, from my name Bart and the latin word bonus (which means good ) So that would be uhm the good Rom?
Bonusbartus said:
My username is already a wordplay, from my name Bart and the latin word bonus (which means good ) So that would be uhm the good Rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well if u call it the good rom it wont sound so cool...where as bonus...meaning "an extra thing or unexpected addition or gain or prize"...that sounds nice...and people would say: oh i get it!..."bonus coz his name is bonusbart"
I ran the rom just a few minutes ago. Quite nice, good job on your first rom.
Mirror
I just uploaded it on RapidShare
http://rapidshare.com/files/218166076/Kaiser.rar
Enjoy !
btw.. Nice ROM ! Thanks !
YouBou1992 said:
I just uploaded it on RapidShare
http://rapidshare.com/files/218166076/Kaiser.rar
Enjoy !
btw.. Nice ROM ! Thanks !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the mirror,
I'll paste it in first post
Glad you like it!
With the release of various new kitchens for the Herald/Wing, I'm sure there are going to be many newbie cooks with many newbie questions. I'm creating this thread as a place to ask our remaining Chefs questions in a central location to avoid them being bombarded in the various other threads. I define a "Chef" as those cooks who have released many flavors of ROMs, so presumably they know what they are doing, and thay are still cooking for the herald/wing... aka Ivanmmj, Ace10134, Apreichner, IllConcepts, etc. No disrespect intended to those great cooks who have released ROMs in the past, but have gone on to other projects, aka toadlife, ttran001, itje, Papamopps, Dutty, ICP, KidnamedAlbert, ginolin, and others... if you are still around, feel free to participate.
Please limit your questions to issues with ROM COOKING. Take a look at Ace's Guide to Cooking before asking. Then if all else fails... ASK THE CHEF.
Please state which kitchen you are using, which WinMo build, and as much detail as possible. If you get the answer, please update your post so that it is not answered multiple times.
Reserved for later
Reserved for even later
I'll answer
And you've got my GUIDE.
Please link that in the first post, since that'll eliminate a large percentage of questions!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=541504
Ok... I guess I'll ask the first question. I asked this in Ivan's SuperJustKitchen thread because it happened with his kitchen, but I'll ask it here for all the other roaming chefs and WinMo experts.
I cooked a spanish Rom for wm6.5 23016, using the default setting and adding a few items like voice command and .NETCF 3.7. The build was successful as well as the flash. Everything looks OK except that CABs wont install and Themes will not apply.
Ivan says he's looking into it, but I know he's busy. IllConcepts says he encountered this in one of his ROM builds but did not say how he resolved it. I would like to investigate the cause myself, but I'm not sure where to start. Can anyone tell me which program actually does the install of CAB files (when double clicked) so I can verify the file association in registry for CAB files. Also, how exactly are themes applied when clicked in the Today settings panel.
I haven't spent a lot of time on SJK yet. But when i tried it i couldn't install cabs or get an internet connections. Ivan can best answer that since its his Kitchen.
illconcepts said:
I haven't spent a lot of time on SJK yet. But when i tried it i couldn't install cabs or get an internet connections. Ivan can best answer that since its his Kitchen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The CAB issue is only on the 6.5 builds and I'm looking for a fix right now.
The internet connection is because you didn't install and run Network Wizard. I'm going to guess that you use T-mobile. It seems that only T-mobile users run into the "problem" of the internet connection not working. (I think the average tmobile user is used to having a phone that is FROM tmobile and therefore already preconfigured by tmobile.)
lol ya the network config wizard was the cab I tried to install. Once the cab thing is worked out it will be easy sailing!
illconcepts said:
lol ya the network config wizard was the cab I tried to install. Once the cab thing is worked out it will be easy sailing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That gives me the idea of adding EXT packages for each carrier...
ivanmmj said:
That gives me the idea of adding EXT packages for each carrier...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be cool! I am not 100% sure that it was the network setup i needed. When i would go to Setting/Connections/Connections there was nothing at all. Usually there is an "Add a new modem connection, Set up proxy, etc" But it was completely blank Except for the word connections on top. Usually on "Herald" roms on my wing i can manually do the wap.voicestream and be fine. I could be wrong however.... i am very new at this.
I recently installed the Rom for original windows mobile 6 from this site...I don't knw whether it is windows mobile 6 but it is working very well and I like it but there is a problem..the camera does not become bright like it used to when opened and the screen remains black..when press the capture button it shows an error...I have an htc tytn
adamkhanmian said:
I recently installed the Rom for original windows mobile 6 from this site...I don't knw whether it is windows mobile 6 but it is working very well and I like it but there is a problem..the camera does not become bright like it used to when opened and the screen remains black..when press the capture button it shows an error...I have an htc tytn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well we can't help you if we don't know what ROM you're using. You should really know which ROM you downloaded. But it sounds like you're using an outdated ROM anyways. Get a newer WinMo 6.1 or 6.5 one, they all work fine.
And, this isn't the place for asking that question, anyways. This thread is for asking the chefs on how to cook, not personal issues with ROM's.
adamkhanmian said:
I recently installed the Rom for original windows mobile 6 from this site...I don't knw whether it is windows mobile 6 but it is working very well and I like it but there is a problem..the camera does not become bright like it used to when opened and the screen remains black..when press the capture button it shows an error...I have an htc tytn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong forum. Please ask your answer in this forum. There should be a bunch of users more than qualified for helping you out.
thankyou and im sorry for posting in the wrong forum