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Is there a way to over clock the TC? I have had WM devices before and was able to over clock it with OMAP. Went to N95-3 for a wile (S60) and am now back to WM. Didn't know if this method still worked or if there was a new method.
Thanks
Anyone have an idea?
AFAIK there is no overclocking tool for the Qualcomm. Maybe that's because it's a dual core design. But I'm still hoping that I'm wrong.
TI Omap is also Dualcore. It's just because nobody has written a program to overclock so far.
I agree. It's just a new processor with different architecture and developers haven't made any overclocking tool for that yet. But... it's a matter of time.
If you are right, then it should really be only a matter of time. Due to the fact that HTC uses the Qualcomm for all their new products chances are high. Overclocking to 500MHz could resolve most performance issues. Maybe we should ask HTC for delivering an overclocking tool.
It's almost sure that in the near future we will have the tools to overclock easily our devices, while this processor (32bit Qualcomm MSM7200), is capable to run at much higher speed. For example future devices such as HTC Omni and Toshiba Portege G910 & G920 will run with this processor at 528MHz!!!
athanaso77 said:
It's almost sure that in the near future we will have the tools to overclock easily our devices, while this processor (32bit Qualcomm MSM7200), is capable to run at much higher speed. For example future devices such as HTC Omni and Toshiba Portege G910 & G920 will run with this processor at 528MHz!!!
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Man that would be great!
"is capable to run at much higher speed. For example future devices such as HTC Omni and Toshiba Portege G910 & G920 will run with this processor at 528MHz!!! "
there seem to be a common misconception that the same family of cpus running on various Mhz's are under and overclocks that is sadly not the case not on pc's and not on pda's
Well I hope that even if this is not the 528MHz prosessor in the TC that it can still be over clocked.... I've run my Blue Angel, Hermes, and StarTrek all over clocked.
yeah most overclock at least a bit
though some cpu's never got oc programs i believe
like samsungs hope for your sake that this cpu will get a tool
personaly i'd go with the longer batt life though
and a good driver will prob do alot more for general speed
Don't know why there's so little rumor about this - but there is actually an app that could possibly let us overclock the TC:
http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=11573&page=2
It's called HTC Performance and it has already been included in some HTC Kaiser ROMs. I fit works with the Kaiser, why not with the TC?
I will test this! I just wonder why "nobody" knows about this app.
Found some more info on the forum: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=347546&highlight=htc+performance
Looks like it doesn't work... Or does it? I'm still about to test.
What the f---?! I can't believe this. I set it to 520MHz and PointUI became soo slow. Then I started the camera app and it ran perfectly smooth. PointUI also runs good now after closing th camera app. Don't know what to think about this but: Try it!
@Rudegar
Hm, I would like to have both (more or less ). More power when I need it and less power when battery life is much more important. Maybe a little more speed would provide the performance to play my files encoded in H264 smoothly. But I don't want to watch my files every day so there is no need to overclock my device all the time.
@maati
The people in that forum are talking about an HTC Apache. AFAIK the Apache has an Intel XScale processor. So I would be really surprised if it works with the TC or Kaiser. Maybe there are another tweaks within this package?
Either way, there is at least one company which tries to find a solution: http://www.wizcode.com/devblog/comments/pocket_hack_master_v5_feature_requests/
(Unfortunately they are trying it for just a while and it seems that they still haven't made real efforts)
Guess we'll wait and see.
Rudegar said:
there seem to be a common misconception that the same family of cpus running on various Mhz's are under and overclocks that is sadly not the case not on pc's and not on pda's
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What are you talking about????
You must have forgotten that 32bit Intel XScale PXA270 processor runs in most devices (such as Gigabyte i350, ASUS P535 and many many other) at 520MHz BUT in XDA Atom life at 624MHZ!!! And we are talking for exactly the same processor!!!
One more example for you because you talked about Samsung processors... 32bit Samsung SC32442 runs in HTC P3600 and ETEN X600 at 400MHz but in ETEN X650, ETEN X800, MWg Zinc II and HTC P3600i runs at 500MHz.
So... who has made the misconception?
Have a nice day!
Still no ideas?
Overclock TC
Kick the subject:
Anyone found a tool to overclock the TC or any suggestions how to write an overclock application?
"You must have forgotten that 32bit Intel XScale PXA270 processor runs in most devices (such as Gigabyte i350, ASUS P535 and many many other) at 520MHz BUT in XDA Atom life at 624MHZ!!! And we are talking for exactly the same processor!!!"
no it's not the same processor at all sure it's the same processor family but
you are dead wrong if you believe that all p4's are the same or all athlons no matter
the mhz
nanometer mean alot and verious silicon dices provide various cabebilites speedwise
2 devices with the same cpu one running 520Mhz and one running 300 dont mean that they took 1 cpu and over or underclocked it
just like the first p4 of the northwind series was 1.6Ghz and the last one was 3.06Ghz this was not! the same chip they just changed the mhz of
apart from just that then just cpu speed is not everything flash storage speed and sd interface speed or wifi or usb speed and lack of gpu driver in tc and kaisers case
are much bigger bottlenecks then cpu speed in current devices
"Intel Bulverde 520 MHz"
The one in the Universal
OR
"Qualcomm MSM7201A 528 Mhz"
in the new HTC HD unit
I feel they are the same. Am I right?
qualcomm is much better
Its similar the difference between a 2.5ghz Pentium 4 and a 2.5ghz Core2Solo
i don't think that core2solo and pentium4 with ht much differ
l2tp said:
i don't think that core2solo and pentium4 with ht much differ
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Google up "Instructions per second" and you'll understand.
The Netburst architec of P4 is one of the worst example in history of it. A failure by engineering standard.
The PXA270 Processor in the Universal actually runs at 624mhz and is underclocked. The HTC X7500 uses the same CPU running at 624mhz. It is clearly the better CPU.
genetik_freak said:
The PXA270 Processor in the Universal actually runs at 624mhz and is underclocked. The HTC X7500 uses the same CPU running at 624mhz. It is clearly the better CPU.
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Very, very wrong.
I wouldn't say that the Intel two processors are exactly the same, with one just being underclocked via software. Notice how intel puts out multiple pentiums of a given generation at different speeds? Would you venture to say that all those chips are the same too?
Also, clock speed is a poor metric when comparing chips from different companies. PDADB.Net says that the Intel chip has a ARMv5TE instruction set and the Qualcom chip has a ARMv6 instruction set. The Intel is a generation behind.
Comparing
Wikipedia says
Main article: Megahertz myth
The clock rate of a computer is only useful for providing comparisons between computer chips in the same processor family. An IBM PC with an Intel 486 CPU running at 50 MHz will be about twice as fast as one with the same CPU, memory and display running at 25 MHz, while the same will not be true for MIPS R4000 running at the same clock rate as the two are different processors with different functionality. Furthermore, there are many other factors to consider when comparing the speeds of entire computers, like the clock rate of the computer's front side bus (FSB), the clock rate of the RAM, the width in bits of the CPU's bus and the amount of Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3 cache.
Clock rates should not be used when comparing different computers or different processor families. Rather, some software benchmark should be used. Clock rates can be very misleading since the amount of work different computer chips can do in one cycle varies. For example, RISC CPUs tend to have simpler instructions than CISC CPUs (but higher clock rates), and superscalar processors can execute more than one instruction per cycle (on average), yet it is not uncommon for them to do "less" in a clock cycle. In addition, subscalar CPUs or use of parallelism can also affect the quality of the computer regardless of clock rate.
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Sonus you are correct about the Mhz comparison. However, the PXA270 in the Universal can be safely "overclocked" to 624Mhz because the chip is designed to max out at that speed.
I would still like to see some benchmark tests between the 624Mhz PXA270, and the 528Mhz Qualcomm MSM7201A.
Generations aside, I can't see the Qualcomm chip outperforming the Intel Chip by much, if any. Also, it should be noted that the PXA270 can be scaled, not sure if that is true for the MSM7201A.
The other catch phrase is "Performance per watt". I bet the MSM7201A has a huge advantage over PXA27x in that, mainly due to newer manufacturing process.
That may be true wuzy, but considering the PXA270 is almost 5 years old and still being used in new devices should tell you plenty about its capabilities and performance.
Not really... It does, however tell a lot about the stinginess of device manufacturers.
As for the overclocking, not every Universal can run 624 MHz without crashing because the CPUs are going through a selection process after manufacturing and there is simply no reason to use the best ones for a device that doesn't need them running at full speed.
The crashes are usually the result of the type of program used to overclock and also the rom. For the most part, people have found that 624mhz is pretty stable, inlcuding myself. Some have even pushed it beyond that speed, but that's another story...
Also take this into consideration:
The Universal has been on the market since 2005, almost 4 years now. By industry standards, it should be obsolete. Why is it not then? Simply, it is quite inexpensive compared to the newer devices having similar features, sometimes less. When it comes to performance vs. price vs. features, you just cannot beat the value of the Universal and its blistering fast 520/624mhz PXA270 CPU! The PXA270's performance is only rivaled by its bigger brother, the 800Mhz PXA320 which has made its way into some newer devices already.
genetik_freak said:
That may be true wuzy, but considering the PXA270 is almost 5 years old and still being used in new devices should tell you plenty about its capabilities and performance.
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Try out a Diamond/Touch Pro with Opera9.5 the next time you see one and notice the speed difference.
On MSM7201A compared to our PXA27x it's a lot more smoother.
The lack of driver for MSM7200 on a lot of devices released last year tainted our perception on the new generation chips I think.
Touch HD vs. ASUS Galaxy7 at end of the year... hmmm
I think you're missing the point wuzy.
I know there are newer devices out now that can deliver slightly better performance in some areas than the Universal, but considering how old our device is, it is to be expected. All I'm saying is that given the age of the Universal compared to what's out there now, The Universal has held up well. Furthermore, with all the new cooked roms popping up, you can expect the Uni to live even longer!
Take a look at H.264 decompression and real high performance tasks and the PXA270 looses so badly against the PXA320 that it is not even funny anymore...
Why does the Uni keep up with most software? Because most programs are written for the old ARMv4 instruction set, thus wasting a lot of CPU cycles on newer processors that have already moved on. Apart from that the average application simply does not need that much CPU power to begin with.
The Uni held out well in a market that is very slow to adapt new technologies to begin with. The Axim x50v had a dedicated graphics chip at the end of 2004 - how many applications make use of that today? Only some games (ports, emulators) and media players. For those alone the Axim has held out better than the Uni though as it is still one of the best performing PPCs on the market.
Our little one will be around for quite a while, but it is far, far away from what nowadays devices can offer and it shows if you run anything beyond mail and office apps on it.
Which Processor is faster & better
I feel from your input above that "Qualcomm MSM7201A 528 Mhz" has higher performance, clock rete, Instructions per second, & Performance per watt when compared to the "Intel Bulverde 520 MHz" about 2:1 am I right ?
Another Question:
What is the highest speed Processor available for the PDA industry today?
Best Regards.
IMHO the ARM Cortex processors are very far up the ladder when it comes to performance and energy consumption. The Pandora makers claim 10 hours of runtime for their device. Together with its media chip this little bugger is capable of decoding 720p HD video streams (take a look at the Archos 5)
I am not sure if the MSM7201A chipset's CPU alone reaches twice the performance of the Uni, but you will see a huge difference in apps that support and need the latest in CPU architecture (media players & games). If (one way or the other) the 3D capabilities can be put to use you will probably see more than a 2:1 performance boost.
The sad truth is the Universal is one of the slowest VGA devices around. Especially considering lack of the graphical accelerator (which was even present in prototypes).
Too bad the dedicated 3D chip didn't make it into the final design. But it's still better than having a 3D accelerator without drivers! I have a Sharp EM-ONE here with a GoForce 5500 that could theoretically accelerate many video formats. The sad truth is that because there are no drivers no media player can make use of the chip. Even worse: Because the graphics chip still controls the display video is even slower because the optimized X-Scale drivers can't be used. It's like Sharp and NVidia wanted to punish users double So, as bad as it is, the Uni is not the worst device out there!
x86
I wonder why there´re no x86 cpu´s placed in mobile devices yet. maybe because of the high power consumption? x86 cpu´s running at 528mhz would be more powerful than arm cpu´s. furthermore the device could run x86 os like xp embedded with more features and capabilities...
x86 CPU enabled systems are still too much power hungry and too much complicated to be used in such a small device (sounds weird when talking abut HTC Universal, doesn't it).
What is the difference between the MSM7201(A) processor (who ist built into devices like HTC Touch Diamond, HTC Touch Pro, HTC Touch HD, SonyEricsson Xperia X1) and the MSM7225 processor (who ist built into devices like HTC S740, HTC Touch 3G) ?
The are usually both clocked at 528 MHz and the Feature List seems to be similar.
I just noted that devices with MSM7225 processor has always a 320x240 Pixel QVGA Display while devices with MSM7201(A) processor has often a 640x480 Pixel VGA or 800x480 Pixel WVGA Display.
Someone correct me if im wrong, but isnt the qualcom processor the CDMA version of the Processor?
They are all GSM/WCDMA devices.
Im pretty sure the guy at the sprint store today told me that the difference between the GSM Diamond and the CDMA diamond was the processor thoguh so idk
The CDMA Processors are afaik named 7500A, 7501A and 7525 while the GSM/WCMDA Processors are named 7200, 7201(A) and 7225.
But now I've heard that the 7225 (and probably the 7525) doesn't include a GPU.
Interesting...
A quick google shows that both support the exact same features.
By this I mean connectivity (GSM/CDMA/3G), TV-out, 5MP Camera, Bluetooth, Wifi, (a)GPS, IrDa etc etc.
They are both built on the same 90nm process.
They are both RISC 32-bit structures built with ARM11 (36EJ-S) core with ARMv6 supported cores (like a DSP).
Where they differ is that the MSM725xx's are dual-cores whereas the MSM720x's are solo.
What this means; this will handle all your regular tasks but whatever the MSM720x's (Touch Pro) cannot handle, this won't do any better. For instance, if the Touch Pro cannot playback 720p HD movies at 30fps, this won't either.
So what good is the second core? It will help greatly in multitasking (open more tasks) and make the user interface (background tasks) feel much more quick/less laggy, at the expense of slightly reduced battery life.
The difference is that the MSM720x's were once the bleeding edge and were surpassed by the TI OMAP3xxx's and QSD. Whereas the MSM725xx's were released after this had happened, they just copied the old structure set, and were aimed for mainstream smartphones to provide cheaper alternatives.
To be honest, these SoC's provide much more performance at less power than the old SoC's (624MHz Intel Xscale PXA270 ie Marvell ARMv5) but whine and fall against anything built upon ARM Cortex A8 or ARM Cortex A9 series. So for today's standards they both are relatively slow processors for smartphones.
Sources:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7201&c=qualcomm_msm7201
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7225&c=qualcomm_msm7225
http://www.qualcomm.co.uk/news/releases/2007/070212_enables_mass_market.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_Xda#Xda_Atom_Life
http://tweakers.net/reviews/1578/4/htc-legend-designstatement-van-aluminium-hardware.html
dont think 3d driver will ever come.....
there is not even a gpu in the prccesor......
Is there much of difference beside clock speed. from the msm7200 in the touch pro 2 and the xscale running at 800mhz in the omnia II in terms of performance? ANy help would be appreciated.
If you ask me it (should) make quite a difference. The msm7200 is quite notorious for it's quite allright clockspeed but slow performance.
I used to have a Diamond (with 528 mhz) and then got a Omnia (Marvell 624 mhz) which was already quite a difference. I guess the 800 mhz will make even more of a difference.
Do note that there is a big difference in resolution between the Diamond and the Omnia, so that will also give some speed increase. The Omnia II has a Samsung 800 mhz chip (as far as I know) and I don't know what kind of performance that will give.
Both cpu's are a ARMv6 (afaik), so in that perspective you could say the 800 mhz is faster than the 528 mhz.
See this:
Samsung chip: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a6410&c=samsung_s3c6410
Qualcomm chip: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7200a&c=qualcomm_msm7200a
My old diamond was much slower than my current ipaq 211. The ipaq has a 624mhz marvell and is much faster and more responsive than the diamond. It can also play videos back much better. 800mhz would just increase the performance gap.
The Omnia II is Arm11 which is slightly faster than the iphone 3G(both get blown out of the water by the 3Gs), and should support OpenGL ES 2.0.
Here's Samsungs Data sheet on it: http://www.samsung.com/global/syste.../2008/5/30/785500s3c6410_datasheet_200804.pdf
The msm7200, i BELIEVE(dont quote me), would be faster than the SC36410, if it had proper drivers.. however, thats not the case.
numbers are an indicator and nothing more. They give you a clue but clues can be very misleading. If they were usefull, why would you need benchmarking?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth
(yeah i know wiki is sometimes full of BS but it certainly backs up what I learned in Uni and during my assembler cracking/virus writing days)
The ONLY way to compare CPU's is to run the same application and then run the SAME task in that application. Once you have done so ALL you can say is "For performing task X in application Y, processor ZXY running operating system ABC is faster on the BLAHBLAH platform" and nothing more. It does not mean its faster at everything or indeed, you cannot say its faster than ANYTHING else until you have tested it.
At the end of the day, the processor is affected by drivers, processor design and the operating system and its installaition.
and Software.. if theres no apps that incorporates acceleration, then its wasted.
what about qualcomm 1G snapdragon cpu?
how fast is that compares to current 528mzh? haha
i'm waiting for Acer S200 with 1G cpu.
netnerd said:
what about qualcomm 1G snapdragon cpu?
how fast is that compares to current 528mzh? haha
i'm waiting for Acer S200 with 1G cpu.
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please re-read and if you still don't understand, i'll try and explain again.
clearly, marvell is better, even the mhz is lesser than what qualcomm offers!
having better decoders also like video playback & multitasking when video is playing!
waiting for devices with marvell cpu pxa168 series.
they use qualcomm chip becoz its cheaper & provide hsdpa to network & GPS module while the rest does not come with it. so individual chip must be used. but its better like GPSone VS SiRF III
Which one is newer? Which one is newer technology.
Which one performs better
Which company made xscale and which made qualcomm?
Which phone brands use which? (ie. HTC, Samsung, LG, etc.)
Moved to Q&A section
Qualcomm is a vendor, XScale is the name of an Intel processor normally found in PDAs such as the Dell Axim and HTC Universal. XScale is pretty old, Qualcomm is bang up-to-date. Qualcomm makes the Snapdragon and Scorpion processors, commonly found in high-end HTC smartphones like the HD2, Desire and Desire HD/Z
Swyped from my HTC Desire running LeeDrOiD 2.3d with Tapatalk.
XScale was Intel's venture into the ARM arena, before selling it, lock, stock and barrel to Marvell, who now manufacture and develop XScale processors. Intel now concentrate on their x86 Atom series of processors.
XScale is an ARMv5 architecture processor, ARMv5TE to be precise, whereas Qualcomm's Snapdragons are ARMv7.
Sometimes it is not always easy to compare one type of ARM processor to another, as clock frequency is not always proportional to the performance. An example is TI's OMAP chip, as found in the Wizard. While it only runs at 200MHz the device performs on a par with other PDAs with ARM chips running at 400/500Mhz
Also some versions have more peripheral units included alongside the processor's silicon. Comms, graphics, sound, keyboard controllers etc.