WM6 & Microsoft Bluetooth A2DP quality: Light at the End of the Tunnel? - General Questions and Answers
Everyone into A2DP and stereo, wireless Bluetooth headphones knows the Microsoft Bluetooth stack, quality-wise, used to be WAY worse than that of competing products (Widcomm / Broadcom on Windows Mobile; Nokia and other products on other platforms). I’ve thoroughly elaborated on this issue in the Comparison & thorough compliance report of three stereo Bluetooth headphones: Nokia HS-12W, Plantronics Pulsar 590 and 260 and previous articles. Note that you WILL want to read at least this article - it may answer a LOT of your A2DP-related questions.
Fortunately, there IS light at the end of the tunnel. Upon seeing THIS XDA-Dev thread (linked from THIS thread at MoDaCo), I’ve made some very thorough tests with the new, WM6 Bluetooth implementation and was VERY pleased with the results.
Yes, the new WM6 (as far as REAL, official WM6 versions are concerned and NOT illegal, “cooked” ROM’s, some of which still having the pre-WM6, low-quality A2DP implementation) indeed delivers a vast quality increase.
Listening to any music with singing was pretty much impossible with the MS BT stack back in the WM5 days (with an incompatible pair of headphones; don’t forget that, as has also been pointed out in my already-linked article, the A2DP implementation of WM5 delivers excellent results with already compatible A2DP headphones like the Nokia HS-12W); now, with WM6, the sound quality is pretty much close to that of the Widcomm (Broadcom) BT stack. It’s only audiophiles (like me) that will notice the VERY slightly lower sound quality with the new, WM6 implementation; ordinary people not really.
Again, the sound quality of the new A2DP implementation is orders of magnitude better (again, I only speak about incompatible headphones, NOT about compatible ones like the already-mentioned Nokia HS-12W! Keep this in mind when I speak about the bad sound quality of pre-WM6 A2DP implementation) than that of ANY WM5-based Pocket PC’s or Smartphones. This means you can, finally, dump Widcomm hacks or Widcomm-based handhelds in favor of new, WM6-based phones.
What about pre-WM6 Windows Mobile models?
After Microsoft introduced A2DP support in January 2006 with WM5 AKU2, the vast majority (exceptions include, for example, the HTC Wizard, which has never officially received any A2DP support) of new models (and operating system upgrades for existing ones) coming with the Microsoft BT stack (that is, all WM5 models except for Acer’s and HP’s models and the Fujitsu-Siemens T830 phone) have been released with A2DP support.
The A2DP sound quality of WM5 AKU2 devices was terrible. It was only with VERY few headphones models (for example, the already-mentioned Nokia HS-12W) that it delivered good sound quality. The vast majority of existing A2DP stereo headphones models (for example, the Plantronics Pulsar 590 and 260) were plain useless with the stack.
While Microsoft (vaguely) promised A2DP quality increase with the Autumn 2006 release of WM5 AKU3, real upgrades / devices didn’t deliver ANY increased sound quality. I’ve tested this with MANY WM5 AKU3 devices; both Pocket PC’s and MS Smartphones natively delivered with AKU3; for example, the HTC Oxygen (aka S310; a WM5 AKU3.0 MS Smartphone) and the HTC Trinity (aka P3600; a WM5 AKU3.3 Pocket PC).
This means it’s only with WM6 that you can expect (almost) flawless A2DP sound quality. With ANYTHING earlier, you will have MUCH worse sound quality – unless, again, you have one of the very few compatible headphones (Nokia HS-12W etc).
Also note that, should you use a “cooked” WM6 ROM, you may still have pre-WM6 A2DP support because these ROM’s may use components from older operating system versions. As cooked ROMs are not really legal, I am not allowed to provide you more information on the affected models or ROM versions - sorry. However, the next section explaining the Joint Stereo mode will be of great help to decide whether your cooked WM6 version already has the latest A2DP support, or still an old, WM5-based one.
Affected ROM versions – of which ROM’s can you expect good A2DP quality?
As a rule of thumb, if a given ROM version supports Joint Stereo, then, it’s capable of delivering pretty good A2DP quality. That is, if, in the Registry, the value HKLM\Software\ Microsoft\Bluetooth\ A2DP\Settings\ UseJointStereo (note that HKLM, as usual, stands for HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE) is 1 , meaning enabled (NOT 0, meaning disabled) and the sound is (still) stereo, then, you have the new, WM6-based, high-quality A2DP implementation.
If you get mono sound (as is the case with ALL pre-WM6 models I’ve ever tested, despite what some say; and, again, some cooked WM6 ROM’s also belong to this category), then, you have the old (low-quality) MS BT stack, which can’t really be “hacked” – it’ll always deliver sub-par sound quality with most headphones, except for some select headphones models like the Nokia HS-12W (but, according to this XDA-Dev thread, not necessarily other Nokia headphones).
To make sure your (WM6) device has a new BT stack (or an old one), get a registry editor. If you’re unsure, read the Registry Editor Bible for a roundup; I recommend the registry editor in Resco File Explorer the most. It runs great on both regular Pocket PC’s and MS Smartphones. Note that many recommend (for example, in THIS thread) Breaksoft’s Mobile Registry Editor. You won’t want to use it because it isn’t able to modify the HKLM branch (only for seeing what’s in there it’s sufficient, though).
The same may stand for the, mostly for MS Smartphone users, highly recommended RegEditSTG on some WM5+ Smartphone models – it’s been signed by HTC’s certificate, which has been put on the ban list in at least Orange-branded phones released since Feb. 2006. That is, this registry editor won’t run for example on the SPV C100 (the Orange rebranded HTC Oxygen / S310), not even on a completely (application) unlocked phone. This isn’t the case with Resco’s editor: it’ll work just great on (app) unlocked new Orange Smartphones.
Yeah, I have a new, legal, official WM6 device, I still have VERY bad sound quality!
People that DO have a legal and official WM6 model (for example, the HTC Vox (s710) smartphone) still MUST hack the Registry to get rid of two registry values really degrading sound quality: the "MaxSupportedBitPool" and the "BitPool" values under HKLM\Software\ Microsoft\Bluetooth \A2DP\Settings. These both have a very low (with the Vox, 30) default value, resulting in VERY bad sound quality. I just don’t understand why Microsoft and HTC have left these values in there – all they do is completely degrading sound quality, without fixing anything / making more A2DP headphones compatible.
Just remove these two registry values and shut down / restart Bluetooth (or, if you choose so, reset the device – you won’t need this for the changes to be heard).
Note that if you have a Smartphone (and not a Pocket PC), make sure you application unlock your device before modifying the Registry; otherwise, you won’t have edit access to the Registry. To unlock your phone, you will want to read THIS (if you have a Vox or a similar, new, mostly WM6 device) or THIS (if you have an older WM5 device like the Oxygen – while these models still have the old, low-quality A2DP implementations, you may still want to either remove these values or increase their value too slightly increase the A2DP quality. You will still have bad sound quality compared to the WM6 one - or that of the Widcomm stack).
You may also want to create a SampleRate DWORD value with the value of 48000. Many have reported subsequent quality increase (I haven’t noticed this with my HTC Vox + Plantronics Pulsar 590A duo but this doesn’t necessarily mean with other models you won’t hear an increase in the sound quality.) If you’re unsure, just import this registry script – it’ll increase the sampling frequency and also makes sure the Joint Stereo mode is enabled, should you or some tweaker tools have messed with it.
Don’t forget than in pre-WM6 times you HAD to disable the Joint Stereo mode; therefore, if you have ever run automatised sound quality enhancer tweaks (for example, with the excellent HTweakC tool; see THIS for more info) , they may have already set this to 0 (which isn’t recommended any more).
Incidentally, this registry import file, which works on both MS Smartphone and Pocket PC models, has another value, HKLM\Software\Microsoft\ Bluetooth\AudioGateway\ Capability, which makes it possible for the phone to play the ringtone in the connected A2DP headphones and not in the phone itself. If you don’t want this to be changed, just remove the two related rows before importing the script.
Note that as you can’t delete anything from a registry import file, you’ll still need to manually remove the Public Enemy Number One: that is, the "MaxSupportedBitPool" and the "BitPool" values under HKLM\Software\ Microsoft\Bluetooth\A2DP\ Settings.
Verdict
WM6, as opposed to ALL versions of the previous, WM5 operating system, has vastly enhanced A2DP support already available for legal WM6 users ready to do some registry editing (most importantly, removing two registry values). If you’re, on the other hand, a user with a “cooked” WM6 ROM, you may still have the old, low-quality A2DP implementation.
Don’t forget to remove the two registry values if you have a legal WM6 device and you’re still encountering bad sound quality – it’ll REALLY work.
i read through your article. Thanks.
I have been experiencing everything you described above since WM5 and its various AKU and never experienced a good A2DP yet.
The only time I experienced something wow with Bluetooth music is when I run MSI Blue Player with the itech R35 headset which is MSI compatible headset, and the quality is superior, I could not differenciate it with the wired sound quality.
So, for us with WM5 devices, what we can do. From the description, its a matter of software, new BT implementation in the WM6.
How could we port out this piece to run in WM5 or self cooked WM6?
You missed out the Sony Ericsson A2DP BT Stereo headset which has not too bad result except for the bass is a little coloured. The bass is too strong for my taste.
Anyway I like my Nokia HS-12W.
I seems to experience (with the registry hack) a better sound quality with AKU2.0 than in AKU3.x. I have not tried the any WM6 for A2DP.
lie_ui said:
i read through your article. Thanks.
I have been experiencing everything you described above since WM5 and its various AKU and never experienced a good A2DP yet.
The only time I experienced something wow with Bluetooth music is when I run MSI Blue Player with the itech R35 headset which is MSI compatible headset, and the quality is superior, I could not differenciate it with the wired sound quality.
So, for us with WM5 devices, what we can do. From the description, its a matter of software, new BT implementation in the WM6.
How could we port out this piece to run in WM5 or self cooked WM6?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The best way is installing the Widcomm BT stack (if there's a working hack for your particular model - what's it?) - it'll deliver the best quality.
Or, wait for a working and really up-to-date WM6 version to appear, let it be either an official upgrade or an unofficial, cooked ROM version. Unfortunately, I may not elaborate on the latter more - a simple forum search can do wonders ;-)
I have a Prophet running unofficial WM6.
Everything runs pretty stable. I checked the registry setting for Bluetooth A2DP and it does not have any folder named Settings under Bluetooth A2DP. So, there is nothing like JointStereo, BitPool, etc.
A2DP sound quality is just the same like the AKU 2.x and AKU 3.x
From your article, its implied indeed it has the old/WM5 Bt stack.
Hmmm, they just launched the T-Mobile Wing which is officially running WM6. I was thinking to upgrade before, but cancelling it, because from my current Prophet to the new T-Mobile Wing, there is no significant upgrades besides the keyboard. I will lose infrared, normal audio port, full size SD Card, in exchange of getting exactly same size device, same hardware with only addition: the keyboard.
But now, you pointed out the proper and good A2DP quality... which should be part of the new T-Mobile Wing according to your article... =)
For those of us stuck with WM5 devices for now, we need someone to extract the a2dp drivers for the current "fixed" WM6 installations.
We've had a2dp drivers floating around ever since the original Tornado a2dp hack, leading up to versions from AKU 3.2, 3.5, and even the beta WM6's (which were terrible). It shouldn't be difficult for anyone to do the same with these new "fixed" drivers, however as far as I can tell, no one has bothered yet.
If anyone out there knows how to do this, you would be doing a great service to your fellow WM fans!
lie_ui said:
I have a Prophet running unofficial WM6.
Everything runs pretty stable. I checked the registry setting for Bluetooth A2DP and it does not have any folder named Settings under Bluetooth A2DP. So, there is nothing like JointStereo, BitPool, etc.
A2DP sound quality is just the same like the AKU 2.x and AKU 3.x
From your article, its implied indeed it has the old/WM5 Bt stack.
Hmmm, they just launched the T-Mobile Wing which is officially running WM6. I was thinking to upgrade before, but cancelling it, because from my current Prophet to the new T-Mobile Wing, there is no significant upgrades besides the keyboard. I will lose infrared, normal audio port, full size SD Card, in exchange of getting exactly same size device, same hardware with only addition: the keyboard.
But now, you pointed out the proper and good A2DP quality... which should be part of the new T-Mobile Wing according to your article... =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope it is also part of the Wing and it's not based on an older / beta A2DP. I could only test this with my HTC Vox.
Dishe said:
For those of us stuck with WM5 devices for now, we need someone to extract the a2dp drivers for the current "fixed" WM6 installations.
We've had a2dp drivers floating around ever since the original Tornado a2dp hack, leading up to versions from AKU 3.2, 3.5, and even the beta WM6's (which were terrible). It shouldn't be difficult for anyone to do the same with these new "fixed" drivers, however as far as I can tell, no one has bothered yet.
If anyone out there knows how to do this, you would be doing a great service to your fellow WM fans!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I'm not allowed to post direct links, I'll definitely report on whenever someone "somewhere" manages to do this.
BTW--nice paper going over the meaning of joint stereo and bandwidth issues
http://www.impulsesoft.com/home/download/btaudioguide.pdf
Oh hey, that explains joint stereo! I though it was something Microsoft made up...
A2DP, Treo 700wx, Bell Canada
Menneinsyys,
Clearly you are a man who knows a lot about A2DP. Unfortunately I can't say the same for myself. I wonder if I could pick your brain for a minute...
I own a treo 700wx and have just bought a pair of Sony DR-BT21G headphones but was disappointed to discover I had no A2DP. I'm having troubles wth my earphone jack which makes me doubly interested in getting Bluetooth to work. My carrier is (unfortunately) Bell Canada. That means no WM6 update and no AKU3 or other update. I have been looking around for an A2DP patch and have already tried installing one from Hannip at TreoCentral and another from Sheehan but neither have worked.
From what I have read from you, I should ideally upgrade to WM6 before trying to add on an A2DP patch (correct me if I am wrong). That begs the question whether there is a way to upgrade to WM6 despite your carrier - any suggestions?
Then comes the question of A2DP - what would the best route be for me to take? (carefull, I'm a real neophyte in all of this). Knowing my situation, what do you think of my chances to sovle this ?
Much obliged for your time.
Arnste
arnste said:
Menneinsyys,
Clearly you are a man who knows a lot about A2DP. Unfortunately I can't say the same for myself. I wonder if I could pick your brain for a minute...
I own a treo 700wx and have just bought a pair of Sony DR-BT21G headphones but was disappointed to discover I had no A2DP. I'm having troubles wth my earphone jack which makes me doubly interested in getting Bluetooth to work. My carrier is (unfortunately) Bell Canada. That means no WM6 update and no AKU3 or other update. I have been looking around for an A2DP patch and have already tried installing one from Hannip at TreoCentral and another from Sheehan but neither have worked.
From what I have read from you, I should ideally upgrade to WM6 before trying to add on an A2DP patch (correct me if I am wrong). That begs the question whether there is a way to upgrade to WM6 despite your carrier - any suggestions?
Then comes the question of A2DP - what would the best route be for me to take? (carefull, I'm a real neophyte in all of this). Knowing my situation, what do you think of my chances to sovle this ?
Much obliged for your time.
Arnste
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems it's working. See http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=112637
(if it's not accessible, use http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:umaPm8U_vQwJ:discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=112637 instead)
Hi, first off I give my hats off to ur very detailed and informative article about a2dp.
However, I think (i'm not sure about this but based on experience), a2dp registry settings vary by model. I previously owned a Wizard and use to search for all kinds of threads regarding improving a2dp. I even searched in other devices' threads (universal, hermes, etc). Although I was using pre-official wm6 (cooked one) and in the other devices' threads that I've read, they were also using the same type of roms (but for their device).
I've noticed that the registry settings that people in the universal forums were using, did not give me the best results for my wizard. The same results were obtained from using the registry settings that were suggested in the hermes forums. Although the people in those threads swear by the improvement and excellent results with their device, I was getting constant skipping and mono-type sound. I then stuck to the suggested registry settings in my own device's forum (wizard) and I did get pretty decent,skip-free music.
Now I'm using a hermes and I tried using the registry settings that I used in my wizard but I did not get the same results in comparison to using the registry settings suggested in the hermes forums.
The validity of my statements may not be accurate but these are my findings based on experience and it could be something to ponder on when it comes to achieving the best a2dp experience
Thank you! This is great news! I own a pair of 590a's and not being able to use them on the X7500 was a dealbreaker. Now that they ought to work in WM6, I'm one step closer to getting that X7500. BTW your previous BT article was brilliant!
dbrotzen said:
BTW your previous BT article was brilliant!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
joecruz said:
Hi, first off I give my hats off to ur very detailed and informative article about a2dp.
However, I think (i'm not sure about this but based on experience), a2dp registry settings vary by model. I previously owned a Wizard and use to search for all kinds of threads regarding improving a2dp. I even searched in other devices' threads (universal, hermes, etc). Although I was using pre-official wm6 (cooked one) and in the other devices' threads that I've read, they were also using the same type of roms (but for their device).
I've noticed that the registry settings that people in the universal forums were using, did not give me the best results for my wizard. The same results were obtained from using the registry settings that were suggested in the hermes forums. Although the people in those threads swear by the improvement and excellent results with their device, I was getting constant skipping and mono-type sound. I then stuck to the suggested registry settings in my own device's forum (wizard) and I did get pretty decent,skip-free music.
Now I'm using a hermes and I tried using the registry settings that I used in my wizard but I did not get the same results in comparison to using the registry settings suggested in the hermes forums.
The validity of my statements may not be accurate but these are my findings based on experience and it could be something to ponder on when it comes to achieving the best a2dp experience
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, they vary on both the handheld and the headphones model.
Note that, however, the WM5 / WM6 versions you've tested are all cooked ROM's. I didn't have really good results with the (early; dunno if current ROM's are better in this respect) WM6 Universal cooked ROM's either - it delivers MUCH worse sound quality than my natively WM6 HTC Vox.
Hi Menneinsyys,now that the official wm6 roms are out, chefs are cooking their own versions and saying that they kept the bluetooth stuff of the official wm6 rom but they still "optimize" them for "best" quality (by some registry tweaks). You may not have the answer to this but, in ur own opinion (for the hermes specifically), do u think the chefs are really keeping the BT stuff from the original wm6 rom?
joecruz said:
Hi Menneinsyys,now that the official wm6 roms are out, chefs are cooking their own versions and saying that they kept the bluetooth stuff of the official wm6 rom but they still "optimize" them for "best" quality (by some registry tweaks). You may not have the answer to this but, in ur own opinion (for the hermes specifically), do u think the chefs are really keeping the BT stuff from the original wm6 rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno, haven't tested the latest WM6 cooked ROM's as yet - my Universal still runs one of the earliest WM6 builds and haven't flashed it to anything newer as yet. As soon as I have some time, I flash them onto my PDA's and, A2DP-quality-wise, I test them.
<Original message deleted>
Ah, I understand the situation now. Sorry, I've been away for awhile. There's still hope for WM5 devices, I think.
Related
A2DP Bluetooth Profile for existing MS BT stack?
Hello there! I was seriously thinking about buying myself one of those Bluetooth stereo headsets. Unfortunately they need the A2DP Profile which isn't included in our present MS BT stack. I have read a lot in this forum about transferring the Broadcomm/Widcomm stack - a guy even offered 200$ on success. Yet so far no success. Now I was wondering if it would not be easier to add that profile to the existing stack somehow? By "somehow" I mean that I am not a programmer and havbe no clue how to do so on my own. Any suggestions or help? Cheers, <))><
Hey Guys! At least a simple "No" or some reply would be nice. I can't imagine that I am the only one who looks for something like that
Well I just tried to find a thread for you over at Howard Forums but was not successful. Go over there there is a poster named "whtrbt7" he seems to know a bit on this subject. Basically I believe the short answer is no. I think we are a year or so away from getting true full stereo audio via A2DP Profile. I'm no expert on this subject, but I believe there needs to be more consistance and control within the BT industry as a whole.
i just posted this link in another thread but maybe its useful to you: http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2005-03-0311-002.shtml iWALTZ enables multimedia mobile phones using MS Smartphone(R) and MS Pocket-PC Phone(R)-Edition to stream music over Bluetooth, seamlessly switch between music and voice calls, and display rich media related information on wireless accessories. "Mobile phones are transforming to be the next generation multimedia devices," said K.Srikrishna, CEO of Impulsesoft. "iWALTZ enables this transformation by delivering an integrated Bluetooth audio experience and significantly reducing time to market for mobile phone OEMs. Impulsesoft is working with multiple mobile phone OEMs to deploy iWALTZ in their products that are launching in the first half of 2005." Click to expand... Click to collapse Maybe soon we we are able to get a2dp working on the magicians Cheers, Rainer
Cheers for the answer! I hope so too. Just installed the newest Widcomm Soft on my PC in order to give it "More Power" (Tim Allen from Home Improvement). Now I can't wait to make A2DP work somehow on our Magicians. It would be like Star Trek :wink:
Change the Microsoft Bluetooth stack to the Widcomm one!
You may have heard (particularly if you’ve been following my past articles) about the differences between the Microsoft Bluetooth stack coming with HTC Phone Edition devices and know its major shortcomings when compared to the major alternative, the Widcomm / Broadcom BT stack: It lacks BT PAN (albeit the latest AKU3 has some basic support for BT PAN server functionality) support, which would be of high importance in, say, chatting / talking apps (for example, 4Talk or Microsoft Portrait or multiplayer games) It, as far as versions prior to AKU3 are concerned, lacks support for BT FTP (see THIS ARTICLE for more info) It has wildly inferior A2DP (stereo Bluetooth headphones) sound quality No wonder a lot of people have been actively trying to “hack” the Widcomm BT stack on Pocket PC models initially coming with the Microsoft BT stack. Of them, the WM5-upgraded Dell Axim x50(v) and the x51(v) may already be known to you (I’ve also posted a lot on the project; see for example THIS). Some weeks ago, well-known XDA-Developers hackers started to work on the port to HTC Phone Edition phones; for the most part, with success. For the most part, you may ask? Yes, unfortunately, there still are problems; they are as follows: Currently, it’s not possible to use traditional Bluetooth headsets for calling. Upon trying to connect to the headset, the PDA will just display an error message as can be seen in HERE. In the Hermes Widcomm developer thread, people are working on fixing this issue; so far, with little success. This will be a showstopper for many. You won’t be able to use the PDA as a modem via Bluetooth (see my tutorial here) using either pre-AKU3 DUN or AKU3 Internet Sharing BT PAN. Also see this thread for my posts on this problem. That is, if the lacking functionality is a showstopper for you, do NOT consider switching BT stacks as yet. Model-specific tutorials / threads Check them out for a discussion and / or a tutorial for installing the BT stack on your particular phone model: HTC Wizard HTC TyTN (Hermes) (my earlier report) HTC Trinity: it seems it still doesn’t work at all (I’ve tried hacking very hard). HTC Universal; well-known Pocket PC hacker and coder Helmi has just announced he’ll really soon release a working version even with headset support. I'll keep you posted.
it may sound silly, but does this stack appear in the uninstall list? so, am i able to remove it? i'm asking because last time i changed my bt stack i ended up with my wizard being mute all the time. luckily i was able to restore my old bt version by uninstalling new one. so how is it with this one?
BTW, here's the Headset-enabled (!!!!) Universal BT stack hack: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1115973
banannq said: it may sound silly, but does this stack appear in the uninstall list? so, am i able to remove it? i'm asking because last time i changed my bt stack i ended up with my wizard being mute all the time. luckily i was able to restore my old bt version by uninstalling new one. so how is it with this one? Click to expand... Click to collapse Yes, it can be uninstalled - I haven't had any problems doing so on my Wizard and on the Trinity. Note that the Universal uninstallation is a bit more tricky.
banannq said: it may sound silly, but does this stack appear in the uninstall list? so, am i able to remove it? i'm asking because last time i changed my bt stack i ended up with my wizard being mute all the time. luckily i was able to restore my old bt version by uninstalling new one. so how is it with this one? Click to expand... Click to collapse Yes, it can be uninstalled - I haven't had any problems doing so on my Wizard and on the Trinity. Note that the Universal uninstallation is a bit more tricky.
What's so great about WM6?
Hi, While I am waiting for my MDA Pro to arrive, I have been reading a lot in the Universal section (have a BA myself). May I ask for some valid reasons why someone would want to use homebrewed WM6 releases instead of official/customized WM5? I do understand the fun it is to try out new things, but is it really worth it? I did not find many posts that would clear this question. Thanks, vma
WM6.0... The new look and a lot faster device...
Is there any feature that won't be available with WM6, that did work fine in WM5? Thanks, vma
Video call isn't working yet.
Rolud said: The new look and a lot faster device... Click to expand... Click to collapse The way I see it, WM6 may or may not work for you and may or may not do it for you. Try it. You can always go back to WM5. Most people don't.....
Well .... the simple answer is that I did a lot of searching and reading, and finally tried it out for myself. I asked this very question a while ago right here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1130569&postcount=88 And came to the follwowing conclusion: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1155497&postcount=89 In the conclusion, the thing about the Bluetooth Stack / Voice Command - it was actually Voice Command that was the problem and this issue was fixed in Jrwightmcps' 2.02.00 WWE http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=297256
Crossbow ONLY! Tell you the truth... i see the new WM6 is better eye-catching GUI not to mention the enhancement in the functionality and other usability such as email related functions. I know that MS wont just upgrade for no obvious reason nor for desktop OS compatibility. Yet i reckon i wont -never- go back to magento! Crossbow ONLY!
@nvatvani: Indeed your posts where the only ones I read, that contained some usefull info about the subject. No offense to all the other members of course! I was simply wondering about what to do when my MDA Pro arrives: replace the German firmware with a WWE WM5 one or go straight ahead to WM6 without even looking at WM5. Also, I had some problems with my Blue Angel, when I tried WM5 on it: it may have been a coincidence, but one day after the upgrade the screen went mad and totally messed up. Only 1 Hardreset in about 100 tries would bring it back to normal for some period of time and even reflashing it with WM5 or 2003SE would not make it work normal again. The screen would get messed up suddenly for no particular reason. At the end I had to send it in for repair, which was actually a good thing, as I complained about the loose stylo and bad working hardkeys, all within warranty. I got a new key-pcb, backside and they reflashed the device with 2003SE. I posted this issue in the BA forum, but got no usefull hint. This means I am a little scared of upgrading to unofficial releases. Other than that, I have no problems with flashing, as I do that on my other hobby (satellite receivers) frequently, including JTAG-operations for repairing bricked devices. The same applies to games consoles. (Note: I do not sell or benefit commercially from that activity and my goal is not to get illegal software or TV - not that you guy's get the wrong idea about me). Anyway, thanks for your replies! Cheers, vma
What Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU 2.0 has and Windows Mobile 6 (the cooked ones, having tried them all) doesn't have, according to my experiences: 1. Videocalling - at least not a proper one 2. Bluetooth Dial Up Networking (the DUN profile) 3. Wireless Modem (yet some WM6 ROM's have it, although without shortcut in the start menu) 4. Cyberon Voice Dial by default (some WM6 ROM's have it by default, others will need a 500kB CAB to activate it) The reason why I went back to "good old" WM5 is mainly the reliability. Ok, the OS may be a bit slower here and there, but it has all the functionality (e.g. videocalls and Bluetooth DUN), and NEVER hangs. It just always works and that's what I desperately need right now. --- The things Windows Mobile 6 has for me that 5.0 hasn't which I miss the most: 1. High resolution browsing in the normal Internet Explorer (I don't want to use alternatives) 2. HTML email support 3. The impressive speed of the OS Applications like WM6's Windows Live and the superb Remote Desktop Client are also available for WM5, so I don't need to miss those, otherwise I sure would, and then I might have sticked with WM6. The new sounds and GUI are great, but I don't really miss them, since that's not a true functional thing. Having WM5 up and running again, without freezes and memory leaking and with full HTC Universal functionality, is enough for me to be happy with it and to stick with it. If there ever will be a ROM that actually ADDS Windows Mobile 6 on top of all of this (without a single registry tweak or CAB fix needed), then it's the time for me to upgrade again. If such a ROM will ever see the daylight, since it won't be officially available for the Universal, I don't know. I think the HTC X7500 (Athena) will be there sooner (April 2007 over here), and that one will have a official WM6 upgrade for sure. That'll be my next one, so until then: WM5 for my Universal! So far for my opinion.
why do I use WM6 vma said: Hi, While I am waiting for my MDA Pro to arrive, I have been reading a lot in the Universal section (have a BA myself). May I ask for some valid reasons why someone would want to use homebrewed WM6 releases instead of official/customized WM5? I do understand the fun it is to try out new things, but is it really worth it? I did not find many posts that would clear this question. Thanks, vma Click to expand... Click to collapse To be honest, I used them all and later delteted them after 5 2 hours. They leak a lot, ram is at minimum and useless third party applications, and a lot fo thing sodn't really work or missing (I just want a vanill aone without 3rd party applications). Except for one rom, Darkforce, it is fast and furious, and so far I have using it for two days; battery usage is good, and no leaks. However, no video calling, and no way to set com ports for bluetooth devices. any1 has this problem? However, common to all ROMS, no video calling, old calculator, speed dial messed up (some work and some don't), wireless connection bubble missing (yes you can install a cab but I don't want to do that). <Mind you, contrary to other reports, I never had any freezes with any rom. The thing that attracts me is HTML in email, High resolution mode in explorer, better remote desktop connectivity. So I thhink I am sticking with DarkForce ROM, so far so good. Thx
Call recording supported on some new HTC handsets (e.g., the Touch HD)?!
Up until now, very few Windows Mobile handsets have supported call recording, which has also resulted in, after giving my call recording-capable HTC s310 to my wife, my sticking to a Symbian S60 phone (the Nokia N95) for plain phoning purposes. Fortunately, some XDA-Developers forum members discovered the HTC Touch HD running Asian ROM’s do have built-in support for flawless (read: no need to rely on “sound bleeding” from the speaker to the mike to record the other party) call recording, while non-Asian ROM’s didn’t have this feature. They have quickly ripped the app so that others can also install it. Currently, only few WinMo models and ROM versions do support call recording; for example, the Touch HD, the Kaiser and the Raphael (CDMA-specific thread HERE; reported success with for example the new 5.05 leaked WWE ROM). (Click the links for additional info.) Note that I’ve started and will (try to) maintain a list of the supported models and ROM versions. It’s available HERE. On my HTC Universal running Tomal 8.5 WM 6.1 (tested with the plain registry import, the original CAB file linked to in the first post of the Kaiser thread and Monx’s repack – it’s the latter two that you should try first after reading thru at least the Touch HD thread – yes, I know it’s long and quite hard to read, but it still has a lot of nice info), it doesn’t work. The second did show up the “Record conversation” menu item while talking; the third didn’t at all. Nevertheless, nothing resulted in recording the other party, other than the sound bleeding from the speaker.
Wow! This is good news! Anything that I could use on X1 to do the same thing? I've been looking far and hard and unable to find anything in the market for this ability on WinMo 6.1 phones. The rest of the recording utilities have to rely on loudspeaker mode and once you are on hands-free, it does not work at all.
Windows Mobile Revolution: call recording supported on almost all handsets!
Up until now, very few smartphone platforms allowed for recording calls: most notably, Symbian S60 (but not UIQ). Windows Mobile (WinMo), apart from some models (HTC s310 / Oxygen, x7500 / Athena etc.) didn’t allow this. The BlackBerry platform and the iPhone don’t allow this either. (Albeit, with the release of iPhone OS 3.0 and the voice recorder coming with it, it’s not guaranteed the situation will remain the same.) Note that the reason WinMo can’t record calls has always been different from BlackBerry and the (2.x OS-based) iPhone. The latter two in no way allow for running any voice recorder apps while a call is taking place (I’ve VERY thoroughly tested this on both platforms and, on the iPhone, with several third-party voice recorder apps); WinMo has always done so – it did allow for running a sound recorder app while, at the same time, the same handset was taking place in a conversation. It’s just that not at an acceptable quality – so far, you had to rely on the sound bleed from the speaker to the microphone to record the other party. Recording your voice, of course, has always worked (with the exception of some very rare models like the O2 Flame, where the situation was the opposite: the other party’s voice was recorded, but not yours) as the mike easily picked up your voice – after all, it’s way more loud than the other party’s thin voice bleeding from the speaker of the phone. Sure, enabling speakerphone helped the situation (more advanced call recorder apps like Resco and VITO AudioNotes automatically do this if you instruct them to do so) to some degree, but the resulting quality was still a long cry away from that of, say, recorded calls on the Symbian S60 (mostly, Nokia) platform. And, of course, you can’t use speakerphone all the time; for example, if you don’t want the people around you know what you’re being told – or don’t want to disturb them with a loud phone. It can’t much enough be stressed the importance of this hack. With call recording enabled on most handsets, the usability of the platform as a “plain” phone has greatly been increased. This is also bad news for the BlackBerry and iPhone folks – Windows Mobile has turned out to be better in this respect (too) ;-) Previous hacks It was just a few days ago that I’ve explained the (then, current) hacks that might work on some handsets to enable call recording. In the meantime, a new, much easier (Registry-only) hack has become available, with which you can really easily, without having to waste hours on reading through some ICR-dedicated threads. That is, you don't need to give a try to the methods outlined in my previous article; you don't need to read the linked (e.g., Touch HD) threads either to learn how to set up the previous hacks, what they do, what their restrictions are etc. Installation You only have to download and execute the CAB file linked from the first post of THIS thread (I've also mirrored it – just click the link, save the CAB file and execute it on your handset). Note that it’s both compatible with the touchscreen-enabled Windows Mobile Professional (aka Pocket PC) and the touchscreen-less Windows Mobile Standard (aka MS Smartphone) platforms. Compatibility This application (more specifically, a registry hack) seems to be compatible with a lot of phone models and a lot of (both factory and “cooked”) firmware versions; for example, the HTC Kaiser with a lot of different ROM’s, the HTC Wizard also with tons of ROM’s (I’ve tested it with character’s AMP), the HTC Vox (s710) WM Standard smartphone running the official, non-cooked ROM etc. (This also means it's compatible with both WM Standard and WM Professional.) There, however, are phone models? phone models running a specific firmware version? that don’t seem to work with the hack (read: they don’t allow for recording the other party at a tolerable volume); for example, the HTC Universal running Tomal’s 8.5 cooked WM 6.1 ROM. This, however, doesn’t necessarily mean the Universal won’t be able to record calls with any else ROM. Make sure you check out THIS thread (and, most importantly, the compatibility list in the first post) for more info on which models are surely supported. Also, please post (let us know about) your experiences in the thread (no private messages / mails to me!) or here. What apps can you record calls with? After this, you can test / start recording calls easily with, for example, the built-in Notes application (don’t forget you need to explicitly enable the Recording Toolbar in it!) or, on the WM Standard platform, Voice Notes. Note that this application (as with HTC’s ICR) can only start recording manually; there aren’t automatic call recording capabilities. Should you want something better (that is, apps with automatic call recording, storing the caller/called name/phone number and the date), get one of the following apps (note that there are quite a few other, [automatic] call recording-capable titles; nevertheless, these are the ones I recommend the most): * PMRecorder by Motoblast. Note that it also has an online tutorial HERE. This app is free, unless you want to use its online upload and accessibility capabilities. (To get rid of the latter, just untick the two checkboxes under “1800message.com” in Options.) Unfortunately, this also means you can’t record high-quality, but compressed recordings with PMRecorder: only AMR (which has very bad sound quality) is supported. (Sure, you can use uncompressed WAV files instead, but they do take a lot of storage.) Note that, as has also been explained in my previous, pretty big article on the app, 1. if you want to listen to your recordings on any other (for example, desktop / notebook) computer or simply outside PMRecorder you’ll want to download PMRBackup.zip (I’ve also mirrored it HERE). Unzip it, start the EXE and select “Select file(s)” if you’ve already transferred the .rcwv files from your handset; otherwise, press the “Get from device” button. After conversion, the original recordings will be saved as standards-compliant ones and will be named after the other party's name / number and the timestamp of the conversation. 2. create a link file to \Program Files\PMRecorder\PMRecorder.exe from \Windows\Startup so that it is always auto-loaded at boot time (this works on both platforms too). Otherwise, it won’t – unlike the commercial alternatives below. * Resco Audio Recorder (WM Standard version HERE). It’s much more expensive than VITO’s app (the third recommended title) but it may also turn out to be better, particularly if you want to minimize storage usage (and, therefore, stick to some, compared to MP3, highly advanced speech coding format – in this case, Speex). For example, on my HTC s710 WM Standard phone, VITO’s Audio Notes is always maximized at startup (assuming you’ve enabled it to automatically record calls – this must be made by hand!), making it necessary to manually minimize it. Note that if you want to stick to MP3 (or AAC), you will want to purchase the Resco Codec Pack too - the built-in MP3 encoder in Resco Audio Recorder is really-really bad. This, however, won’t be an issue if you, as recommended, use Speex instead. * VITO AudioNotes (the linked version supports both WM Professional and Standard). A very cheap, but still capable app. If you want to record into MP3 and don’t want to pay some $35 for the Resco Audio Recorder + Resco Codec Pack combo, this app should be the first you check out. Note that it has a slightly more advanced (and considerably more expensive) version, Audio Notes Touch. If you love finger scrolling, this should be the one you check out, not the stylus-only “basic” AudioNotes. Otherwise, for plain phone call recordings, AudioNotes works pretty great. Also note that, as has already been mentioned, you’ll need to explicitly enable it to record calls (Menu / Record / Calls autorecord)
Please also see my dedicated articles for more info on all these apps. In addition to my PMRecorder article, you might want to read my article on VITO’s AudioNotes (note that the chart in the article isn’t correctly rendered; see THIS for the image representation), my remarks on the 4.x series of Resco’s app HERE and, last but not least, the Windows Mobile Audio Recording Bible. Note that the latter isn’t specifically call recording-specific. It, however, explains a lot of things you may find useful, particularly if you plan to use manual recording only. Then, you’ll certainly welcome for example the one-button recording remarks (see the “Buttons: One-button recording? Does it need to show the app window?” row in the chart). No need to manually invoke other apps and search in menus if you want to start recording – just press a pre-assigned button and you’re set. Legal notes Please consult THIS for more info on which American states allow for call recording without the other part’s knowing of this. Addendum (for hackers only!) I’ve tested whether the HTC Oxygen (s310), one of the very few WinMo phones to support call recording, has the same registry values as the three entries in the hack. Interestingly, it doesn’t (below is the s310 registry dump of the related registry keys; hope it helps hackers to find out why the s310 is able to record calls and, in the Registry, what makes this possible). 1. "HKLM\Software\HTC\AUDIOGAIN\AUDIO_DEBUG_FLAG = 0 (and not 64) [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\HTC\AUDIOGAIN] "DeviceID"="Generic_Oxygen_1.9" "AUDIO_DEBUG_FLAG"=dword:00000000 "ENABLE_AUGA_CARKIT"=hex:00 "ENABLE_AUGA_HEADSET"=hex:00 "ENABLE_AUGA_EMBEDDED"=hex:01 "EXTERNAL_RECORDING_GAIN"=hex:06 "INTERNAL_RECORDING_GAIN"=hex:17 "CODEC_GAIN_CARKIT"=hex:00 "CODEC_GAIN_HEADSET"=hex:03 "CODEC_GAIN_EMBEDDED"=hex:00 "EAC_GAIN_CARKIT"=hex:67 "EAC_GAIN_HEADSET"=hex:67 "EAC_GAIN_EMBEDDED"=hex:70 "TTY_UPLINK_VOLUME"=hex:09 "EARPHONE_UPLINK_VOLUME"=hex:19 "HEADSET_UPLINK_VOLUME"=hex:12 "SPEAKER_UPLINK_VOLUME"=hex:10 "RECEIVE_UPLINK_VOLUME"=hex:1A "CARGTTYSIDETONEVOLUME"=hex:08,08,08,08,08,08 "CARGEARPHONESIDETONEVOLUME"=hex:08,08,08,08,08,08 "CARGHANDFREESIDETONEVOLUME"=hex:08,08,08,08,08,08 "CARGHEADSETSIDETONEVOLUME"=hex:08,08,08,08,08,08 "CARGCARKITSIDETONEVOLUME"=hex:08,08,08,08,08,08 "CARGRECEIVESIDETONEVOLUME"=hex:02,06,0C,0C,0D,0D "CARGTTYVOLUME"=hex:06,06,06,06,06,06 "CARGHANDFREEVOLUME"=hex:63,20,23,26,29,2C "CARGHEADSETVOLUME"=hex:63,20,23,26,29,2C "CARGCARKITVOLUME"=hex:61,64,21,24,27,2A "CARGRECEIVEVOLUME"=hex:60,63,20,23,26,29 2. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\RIL\ RingingAddressId doesn’t exist: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\RIL] "Radio Version"="4.1.13.20_02.41.90" "LASTUSEDICCID"="986302004041001548F5" "RESETINFO1"=hex:1D,C2,3C,9A,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\ 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00 "RESETINFO2"=dword:00000004 "OperatorEccList"=hex(7):31,00,31,00,32,00,00,00,39,00,31,00,31,00,00,00,00,00 "GPRSAutoAttach"=dword:00000000 "IMEI"="notyourbusiness" "ResetWhenRadioOffTimeout"=dword:00000001 "AutoNetSelAfterReboot"=dword:00000000 "EnableRIL86Rollback"=dword:00000001 "EnableSmspFromSim"=dword:00000001 "SIMPollingTimerForRemoveDetection"=dword:000000B4 "CwsAtntTreatSpecialPatternAsDial"=dword:00000000 "DelayKeyEventTimeout"=dword:000007D0 "GsmVersion4131xx"=dword:00000001 "MOAbortGPRSSleepCount"=dword:00002000 "HTCGPRSBlockMOWorkaround"=dword:00000001 "EnableWorkaroundForFTA"=dword:00000000 "EnableSStoATD"=dword:00000001 "EnableEcc"=dword:00000001 "DumpGsmThreadLogPeriod"=dword:00003600 "EnableNdisMpdpDebugLog"=dword:00000000 "ImmediateCBMSupport"=dword:00000001 "EnableATAbortSTKCall"=dword:00000001 "EnableDifferGprsEdgeIcon"=dword:00000001 "CsqResendTimeout"=dword:00003A98 "EnableEngineerModeQueryAMR"=dword:00000001 "EnableOverrideVmailAlphaIdFromSIM"=dword:00000000 "BarringIncomingCallStatus"=dword:00000000 "EnableCallBarringPatch"=dword:00000001 "EnableDTMFSupport"=dword:00000001 "DisableRoamingIndicator"=dword:00000000 "GPRSAutoDetach"=dword:00000000 "FDNPINEnable"=dword:00000000 "NIEnable"=dword:00000000 "CPIEnable"=dword:00000001 "CREGLocationUpdate"=dword:00000001 "NITZEnable"=dword:00000000 "Index"=dword:00000001 "Order"=dword:00000004 "Prefix"="RIL" "Dll"="rilgsm.dll" 3. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\WaveDev\ VocRecPath doesn’t exist: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\WaveDev] "Order"=dword:00000002 "Index"=dword:00000001 "Dll"="wavedev.dll" "Prefix"="WAV"
Now if we can only find a registry hack to fix the crappy camera HTC likes to put in their phones lol. HTC TouchPro 2 with a 3.2MP Camera and no flash?? CRAZYY!! Im glad we finally fixed the 2 way recording problem that has ALWAYS been blamed on hardware limitations and claimed that this would never be possible. All it took was 3 little registry entrys haha!! Good job with the write up
mskip said: Now if we can only find a registry hack to fix the crappy camera HTC likes to put in their phones lol. HTC TouchPro 2 with a 3.2MP Camera and no flash?? CRAZYY!! Im glad we finally fixed the 2 way recording problem that has ALWAYS been blamed on hardware limitations and claimed that this would never be possible. All it took was 3 little registry entrys haha!! Good job with the write up Click to expand... Click to collapse Cool! BTW, to fix the incompatbility issues with some models, can anyone look into the s310 registry export and file system? (Why it's capable of recording while it certainly doesn't have the registry edntries.) As I also have an s310, I can give you help in this.
Menneisyys regarding your first post here you said Universals on Tomal's WM6.1 dont record 2 way. I'm using Universal, Tomal's 6.1, v8.7 with Radio 1.17 and using Vito Audio Notes, my 2 way recording is perfect.
PMrecorder is just very soft recording the opposite side on my HTC P3600 with WM6, (Trinity) hard to hear when I play the recording back I can hear myself very clearly. But I am more interested in what the other has to say to record.On the P3600 I am using the "ADW version 1.1 NLD and WWE (OS 5.2.1908 Build 18508.0.7.0) ROM-date: 06 Oct 2007", dutch
hendrixus said: PMrecorder is just very soft recording the opposite side on my HTC P3600 with WM6, (Trinity) hard to hear when I play the recording back I can hear myself very clearly. But I am more interested in what the other has to say to record.On the P3600 I am using the "ADW version 1.1 NLD and WWE (OS 5.2.1908 Build 18508.0.7.0) ROM-date: 06 Oct 2007", dutch Click to expand... Click to collapse Which cab did you use to try to get the 2-way recording to work?
mskip said: Which cab did you use to try to get the 2-way recording to work? Click to expand... Click to collapse Good question. Lemme get my device, moment........................."mskip 2way recording", Two way or 2-way plus?
hendrixus said: Good question. Lemme get my device, moment........................."mskip 2way recording", Two way or 2-way plus? Click to expand... Click to collapse If the incoming voice is very very faint then its probably just picking up the incoming voice that your mic is picking up and recording that. If the registry edit works then you would at least be able to hear the incoming voice clearly which I can only assume means its not working for you. Try upgrading to a custom WM6.1 Rom if you can as the stock roms dont seem to work at all.
mskip said: If the incoming voice is very very faint then its probably just picking up the incoming voice that your mic is picking up and recording that. If the registry edit works then you would at least be able to hear the incoming voice clearly which I can only assume means its not working for you. Try upgrading to a custom WM6.1 Rom if you can as the stock roms dont seem to work at all. Click to expand... Click to collapse OK, i'll try the registertrick first. The ROM ia'm using is a custom rom. But WM6
it didn'et work on y xperia. please let's know if any one could make it work on Xperia?
The registry fix does not seem to work on the LG Incite. Too bad, I was hoping it would. Thanks for all the effort though.
Stock Samsung Jack with the security removed and 2 way call CAB installed. Still getting no calls recorded with Vito AudioNotes 1.37. Anything else I can try?
I seem to be limited to about 45 seconds of recording. Is there a way around this? I changed the "save to" destination to my 8 gig storage card, so memory isn't the issue. Thanks!
TG01 2 way call rec without speakerphone Any solution for 2 way call recording on TG01 without the speakerphone on? Cristian
crissstian said: Any solution for 2 way call recording on TG01 without the speakerphone on? Cristian Click to expand... Click to collapse what rom are you running?
TG01 2 way call rec without speakerphone ?? I'm not sure, the original Orange ROM, I suppose. I don't know how to access ROM. WM6.1
This "Revolution" doesn't work on HTC HD2 (Leo).
SpiritRC said: This "Revolution" doesn't work on HTC HD2 (Leo). Click to expand... Click to collapse Pretty much everyone knows that by now Mark.
I have toshiba g810 and 2way ....cab not work. I have a windows mobile profesional 6.1. What can I do??Please help