Do consumers need protection from firmware/software bugs? - General Topics

I get annoyed when I buy a phone or piece of software only to find I need to wait for firmware or other patches to fix it.
Microsoft have got away with it for years.
Take the magician, T-mobile say now no further upgrades. How easy would it be to add native a2dp, it claims bluetooth 1.2
The universal no working fax s/w, modem drivers, native usb disk drivers as opposed to active sync. No a2dp
Avantgo and other s/w not working on the supplied t-mobile build requiring a firmware upgrade and newer version of wm5 from t-mobile.
What constitues a working device? How many of you have had to use hacked or ftp'd rom's to get a stable device, no memory leaks.
How many people have bought a web camera?, printer only to find that the latest windows version does not have a driver, manufacturer won't supply one.
I think under environment and disposal laws , manufacturers should be made to support the devices for at least 5 years.
Consumers invest money and expect some care for their hard earned $.

I think there should be a better enforced 'suitability for intended purpose' on electronic equipment... we are unlucky with PPCs in that they are such an emerging technology right now, so they are full of bugs.

It is a valid issue you've raised.
The problems inherant in rushing a product to market are as old as the capitalist system!
If a company delays too long trying to get all the bugs out of a product they risk being beaten to the market by a competitor ... which is apparently bad. We have seen cases where superior hardware platforms have failed because they took too long to get to market, and software development was all committed to the first product, even though it was far inferior.
Continued development for an old product is less profitable than releasing a new product.
The irony is that companies can get away with releasing new products which have MORE bugs than the old one ... and people will actually pay money to upgrade. Often because they are attracted by features that they don't need, and which aren't properly implemented anyway.
But new or 'upgraded' laws will never stop this. Companies regularly break laws with little concern because they know that they can reap large profits which will offset the problems that may arise IF they are caught.
A pefect example of this is the body of laws governing the environment and abuse of it for dumping etc.
Companies react much more readily to market forces ... really bad publicity will do more to change a company's activities than laws. Look at Sony and their lovely little rootkit.
And the majority of consumers are simply apathetic.
At the risk of inflating egos ... people who can actually be bothered to seek out and participate in a forum like this are the elite. To actually consider flashing a new ROM onto your device is a concept that most members of the public would find overwhelming.
Blogs, webforums, and participating in projects like those carried out by XDA-DEV are more likely to impact on the future of Pocket PC's than laws which are unlikely to be written, and if they are, won't be enforced properly anyway.

That is true... it would be nice to think that perhaps the developers of Windows CE visit this site and learn from what the greatest members of this community has achieved.

Related

Android vs iPhone War

April 5th, 2011 by Andrew Greenfield
Today’s myth has brought up quite a stir in the community recently. The Android vs iPhone war is bringing a lot of people back to the Mac vs PC wars of the 90’s. So what’s the myth today? The ol’ “it’s one device vs a million” cover.
“Of course android has a greater market share. If I gave away a bunch of phones for free it’d sell better than the iPhone too even if they were crap. You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair. How many android phones are beating the iPhone. Zero. Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred that are so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work. Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone…” (goes on to make nerd jokes and the whole “all Android users still live with their mothers” thing)
It’s beautiful isn’t it? While yes, both of these parties have these people, the fact that the competition is so good that these people exist is great for business. While it’s easier to see competition helping in Android than iOS (only because Android is updated more frequently), both parties should be thankful for the other. Without this kind of competition our phones wouldn’t be half as good! Enough drooling over the free market…
“You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair.”
I see this comment a lot, and honestly, I’m really confused why the hard core Apple supporters continue to use this. Yes, iOS is only on one mobile device (technically more if you count the fact that the iPhone 3G is still being sold). Yes, it is true that if you include iPods and the iPad iOS probably has a greater user base than Android. But that’s not what this war is about (at least yet…Tablet wars are definitely in the future). This war is about which company can put more phones in people’s hands. We (as in the Android community) are not comparing a phone to an OS, we’re comparing a mobile OS to another mobile OS. It’s Apple’s choice to only sell one device. It’s a great thing for their bottom line and right on par with the company’s brilliant business strategy. However, the fact that Android phones are now selling faster than iOS phones (note, iOS phones, not “the iPhone”) means that the market is shifting to Android and away from iOS….Which brings me to my next point:
“Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred”
This is false, and precisely why market share is important. Think about it this way: You’re selling girl scout cookies. You have the option to sell to one neighborhood that is admittedly, much more prone to buying your cookies. Or you have the option to sell on a county level. Which would you pick? Anyone with an understanding of economics would pick the latter. The larger your market, the more opportunities you have to make money. This is why developers think Android will be the best to develop for. It’s the same thing Apple did to RIM. Why would anyone choose to make an app for Blackberry when they can make it for iOS and have an audience that’s many times larger. If you look at it from a third party point of view, those companies will back the OS that has the most users. It’s exactly what happened during Mac vs PC. Only now (with Apple’s impressive growth in Mac sales) are programs being developed for both (here’s to hoping Engineering software will soon be brought to my Macbook Pro!). It’s a vicious cycle. If you fall behind in market share companies stop developing for you. If they stop developing for you, you lose customers (market share). The cycle continues and continues. It’s what happened to Apple computers in the 90’s, it’s what’s happening to Palm and Blackberry now, and it’s what happened to the PSP in its early scraps against the DS. Do I think this will happen to iOS? Absolutely not. iOS is too good and has too large of a user base to be pushed out of existence. However, it should worry the iPhone crowd that as Android continues to dominate you may have to worry about whether Andoid apps will be ported to iOS instead of the other way around.
“…so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work”
There are two ways to answer this. First, I could make the point that most apps require 2.1 or higher, and 80% of Android users have at least 2.1. Secondly, I could bring up the notion that most of the people who REALLY care about their phone aren’t on the few that are running something under 2.x. The small share of Android users that are obsessed with their OS probably own the latest and greatest Android phone. Does my mom care that she has 2.1 on her phone? No. I don’t even think she knows what that is, let alone when she’ll be upgraded. The fact of the matter is is that the majority of the market won’t care if they have an older OS than the person sitting next to them as long as their phones work. Will older phones be useless eventually? Yeah, I can’t argue that the few people that are still running 1.5 are probably running into a lot of problems. However, the amount of people upset with their 1.5 phone aren’t even CLOSE to the people who have an iPhone 3G and are upset with how iOS 4 crippled their phone. It is important to note that not ALL iPhone 3G’s are slowed to a crawl with iOS 4, but the product was widespread enough that Apple is still offering fixes and updates to help out. 4.3 is MUCH better than 4.0, but a lot of 3G users still say that the problem is getting better, but not fixed (this only caught my attention because one of my good friends has the iPhone 3G problem and sent me this funny video to explain to me why she was praying that the iPhone 5 comes soon). I’m not pointing fingers, I’m pointing out that EVERY technology company has this problem; it’s just pointed out with Android more often because of how quickly it upgrades. Is it a “bigger problem” on Android than on iOS? Yeah. But it’s not half as bad as anti-Android enthusiast claim it to be, and whatever OS camp you reside in has the same problems.
“Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone.”
This statement is true. Apple makes a lot of money on their phone sales, Google makes next to nothing (if not nothing) on the their phone sales. However, unless your bottom line depends on Apple’s, this means nothing in this debate; but that’s for another time. The fact of the matter is is that these are just different approaches at making money. Apple’s business strategy is probably the best of any company out there right now; I can’t think of another company (except maybe Nintentdo) that is having more fun rolling around in their money. They make a lot of it. Google isn’t exactly hurting though. While Apple banks its earnings on the immediate sale, Google looks more long term (and even if you like Apple’s strategy better, you have to admit Google as a company knows what it’s doing…how often do you use Yahoo search?). They know if they put the device in your hands, you’ll buy apps, you’ll search, you’ll hit ads, you’ll use Google appliances, etc. Apple takes the “less devices, more money per” approach and Google takes the “more devices, less money per” approach. Both work in their own right. Apple has been doing it for years and they’ll continue to be immensely successful at it. They’ve never given a crap if Macs beat PCs in sales. They could be selling one Mac for every 400 PCs for all they care, as long as that one Mac is still pulling in as much money (and probably more) than the 400 PCs. Same with iOS. Apple users are so excited to have been the top dog in OS for once. They fail to realize that that’s not Apple’s business strategy. iOS will more than likely not be the most used OS in the mobile world at the end of the day, but who cares? Apple will still make a killing on the large market they still have. If you don’t believe me look at video game companies. Nintendo is the only company that makes money off selling its consoles. They make money on every DS and Wii they sell. They’ve been around for years, clearly their strategy works. Microsoft and Sony (Sony especially) take HUGE hits when they sell a console. Before costs were reduced, Sony took some $100 loss for every PS3 sold. They banked on making money once the device was in the consumers hands. They’d buy games and other services to negate that loss and eventually turn a profit. Both Sony and Microsoft are still around, so clearly their business strategy works. Just because you don’t agree with a business strategy doesn’t mean it isn’t successful. Tell either Apple or Google that they need to rethink their business strategy and they’ll walk away laughing.
Closing Thoughts
Anybody can take facts and spin them towards their preference. The original quote was taken from someone who took facts about Android/Apple and spun them towards Apple. I took the same facts and spun them towards Android. The fact of the matter is is that neither of these companies are in any danger of being phased out. Android has a lot of work to do before it truly passes iOS as the preferred OS, but at the same time iOS has a lot of catching up to do to be able to compete with the innovation of Android. This is how competition works. Now, as a consumer, sit back and reap the benefits; whichever device you prefer.
http://www.talkandroid.com/36011-debunking-the-sheep-part-3/
Awesome article, i have both the iphone and an android phone, xperia x10. im gonna post this article on my facebook page just cause this morning in my status i posted that i would use both and see which is user friendlier. Then came all the hate, but it really just comes down to preference. Ios and android are going to rule the mobile os for now and both will be succesful. The debate mostly comes from new android user and some old iphone users and how the newer version of android are actually as user friendly as an iphone. Iphone was on its own for a while but since the newer version of android, more and more people are as satisfied with the their android devices
AT LAST!Someone who speaks with reason on the matter!I don't care whether you prefer iOS or Android,I just care that you have a balanced opinion on the matter.It all comes down to personal preference.What do I care if the guy/gal next to me prefers a different OS than I do?Yeah,I'm one of the guys who use Ubuntu as their daily OS on my PC,so what?Does that make me better or worse than the guys who use Windows or Mac?No.Same with phones.
More people should read your article.From me you have a well earned thanks.
Nice article
.......or you can just remember the old saying "arguing on the internet is like special olympics, even if you win, your still retarded" , and do something better with your time ....
no offense at op , but the average fanboy is dumber than a rock and even worse with apple
Lawl no one cares for WP7? xD
I really love my Apple products, and that includes all sorts of things (even some screwdrivers, hats, pens, water bottles ...)
But my iPod touch 1g is running Android. Apple has dropped support for me with that product, and I figured I may as well do the same thing to them with it
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Yes... sadly enough WP7 is done for in a few ears...
The argument is APPLES and ORANGE.......... or to put more succinctly a non-sequitor
Apple market approach is and has been always has been to market the image and sell the image " only apple is unique or the best, only the best people, etc."
This is a piggy backed approach from the IPOD basis, which capitalized on online music in a mp3 format. It was and is a successful. But,... they're approach still states that they sell you WHAT THEY think is pertinent and decide on what you need, then charge you retail plus 20% for it. It is and still remains a locked and closed system. Creating a image fervor much like when xbox 1st came out, ...long lines customer fights etc.......... 2-digit mob mentality.......... they are good at this .....and it shows.
Android, on the other hand was not created to be closed system since it was based on Linux, it was open source, and the effort was to see if the public would drive development as well as create the new market that would automatically follow...... in essence a novel experiment.......... The result speaks for itself. An open more stable platform that has been embraced around the world. People need to remember that the market is not USA or Europe, but the Entire World. And that, Android has taken over and will continue until the market share of the Iphone IOS will be that of the Mac to the Windows platform. A solid following but, a minority player.
THE DANGER,---- is if Android then is turned upside down by Google, who then figures we are all addicted so now pay up or no support.......... I personally do not think this will happen, BUT... then I don't trust any corporation at all and so, I never let my guard down.
Like I said different animals vying for the same market................
^_^
thank you for your objective approach.

Wyoming converts to Android

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/wyoming-state-government-goes-googles-cloud-221104996.html
Wyoming has become the first state to completely adopt Google Apps, Governor Matt Mead Announced this morning. All 10,000 state employees are now completely dependent on Google Apps. According to the Wyoming Tribune Eagle, Governor Mead says the switch “Will provide us the opportunity to do our job better because now we have a better tool. For Wyoming, it’s a big deal, and for Google, it’s a big deal.”
...
But now that an entire state’s government will use its platform, Google can start making a better case to be taken seriously on the federal level
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodbye RIM. This is awesome because Android is truly the best phone platform, and this blows away the BB "enterprise" trash that keeps people on bad phones. Also, maybe our elected officials can use Android, an AMERICAN company, instead of RIM, a Canadian one, and help to keep jobs in America.
RIMs stocks dropped 21% last week.
There has been a rumor floating around for awhile that RIM would go the way of Sega... stop producing hardware and start producing software for the other players. I'm not sure if its a smart business move myself, but the writing seems to be on the wall.
If BBM for instance was available on Apple/Android then Blackberry sales would be nonexistent. Their mail handling, enterprise servers, security and messenger apps are really the only thing that keeps Blackberry in the running.
A lot of businesses have begun to drop Blackberry support (or at least force employees to use blackberry exclusively for business), seems the Torch may have been one of the catalysts... Tech guys HATED those phones almost as much as their users.
Awesome! Long live the Android.
Article says that this could also mean that the state will start choosing Android for its state-provided smartphones, so it's not a shoo-in just yet.
I have read about a few other municipalities that are making an effort to switch over. Trouble is most States legislatures are busy try to tackle budget issues and and by tackle it seems that both side just argue about the budget and what to cut. Sad considering how much licensing costs could be saved with a widespread adoption of a free system.
A few medium sized towns here in NC already use this as a standard.
Hope the trend continues.
Well that is interesting cant wait to see what comes of it

Rumoured discontent? Are Manufacturers dragging their feet with Android development?

Well topic/discussion purposed is Samsung's muddled delivery of ICS part of a larger rumoured back lash from manufacturers whom seem to be upset at Google for three reasons? First is Google’s acquisition of Motorola mobility apparently still doesn’t sit well with OEM's, the discontent has been amplified by reason number two. Some still don’t buy the party line of patent purchase only. This seems ungrateful from an outsiders point of view should this speculation hold true.
See such an article here:
http://www.androidauthority.com/google-motorola-deal-android-manufacturers-73966/
Second is Google trying to execute more control as many in blogs and tech articles have suggested Google should. This has been to address the issues of diversity and “fragmentation” that Google has faced criticism for. To what degree is Google executing control still remains to be seen. On a side note I and others have suggested the OEM’s give a stronger and narrower focus with fewer new devices but more polish and support.
Third is that Google with Android has not shown the preferential treatment the big players would have preferred; allowing smaller brands to gain ground and market share using this open platform. Brands like Archos, ZTE, and Huawei. Also allowed ASUS to gain a foot hold in the mobile market, ASUS who now seems to have a strong relationship with Google.
Samsung’s fudged ICS upgrade alone may mean nothing. But with HTC recent delivery and overhaul of ICS, combined with Sony decision to possibly hold ICS upgrades because it feels they miss the mark of quality could be indications of such unrest with the Manufacturers is more than just rumours. If such unhappiness is present and being actioned or plotted that’s where things turn interesting or concerning.
Many would think this unwise considering the lack of success with Manufacturers own proprietary OS’s. Nokia's Symbian slowly lost out, Bada is nowhere near the success Sammy had hoped for, despite cited as being more popular at the beginning of this year than Windows Phone. Meego didn't see much of a life.
Let me hear what you have to say on this topic
I think regarding the purchase of Motorola, it is definitely seen as simply a patent buyout. There are plenty of rumours of them already trying to sell the hardware side of Motorola.
Gaining 17,000 (or was it 12,000) patents is going to be a very good thing for manufacturers, knowing that they are much less likely to be sued with the added protection from the extra patents. However, if rumours are true and Google is looking to sell to Huwaie (?) then that will be another manufacturer up there all vying for a shot at the big time. The good thing is competition breed competition, so we will see devices continuously being updated and bettered, whereas the iPhone will not see this at such a rate.
I think Google trying to take a bit more control over Android is overall a good thing, even if manufacturers may not like it so much because it means it is harder to put out the cheaper handsets that have been selling so well.
siravarice said:
I think regarding the purchase of Motorola, it is definitely seen as simply a patent buyout. There are plenty of rumours of them already trying to sell the hardware side of Motorola.
Gaining 17,000 (or was it 12,000) patents is going to be a very good thing for manufacturers, knowing that they are much less likely to be sued with the added protection from the extra patents. However, if rumours are true and Google is looking to sell to Huwaie (?) then that will be another manufacturer up there all vying for a shot at the big time. The good thing is competition breed competition, so we will see devices continuously being updated and bettered, whereas the iPhone will not see this at such a rate.
I think Google trying to take a bit more control over Android is overall a good thing, even if manufacturers may not like it so much because it means it is harder to put out the cheaper handsets that have been selling so well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far Google hasn't appeared to have had much influence on Motorola, many because it hasn't been fully approved/finalized. Oddly enough the hold up is China. The strength of the rumour Google selling the Hardware division to Hauwei is the ability to capitalise on the lucrative Chinese market where Android already is dominating.
Time will tell about the patent side, although no evidence is apparent that supports its more than a patent purchase. We'll have to see who gets the next Nexus smartphone and tablet.

[Q] Our Consumer Culture's Effect

I have never really been one of those out-and-out environmentalists; I do my share and never really spread my dogma around. Nor have I ever been paranoid, or been in the habit of getting enraged about every piece of inflammatory news coming my way; but recently, something struck a cord with me. The whole Apple/Foxconn fiasco, though overblown by the likes of Mike Daisey, really incited a few thoughts within me as far as the direction in which we are heading as consumers is concerned.
See, it is no secret that conditions in such factories are horrible. It has almost always been public knowledge, but public knowledge, is in essence, transient. As a race of consumers and tech-geeks, we tend to forget the bigger picture and are highly thrifty with our technological possessions.
I see a culture of indispensability emerging within our society, thinking of all our gadgets as use-and-throw implements, always craving for something better, whilst never thinking about what sort of labour goes into their production. I’ve seen plenty of teenagers, intentionally bashing their six-month old smartphone, just so they can convince their parents to buy a newer model and the rate of innovation such self-generating demand is driving is staggering.
According to Wikipedia, 150 workers threatened to jump off the roof. For a list of foxconn workers suicides, refer here.
From actually keeping and loving our gadgets for a long time, we have been driven to annual or in some cases semi-annual upgrade cycles, where each past generation seems obsolete to us. And the manufacturers are trapping us in, with innovations like sealed-in batteries, which make a phone far harder to repair and make it impossible for a consumer to just get a new battery and put it in after the older one dies out.
While all this accelerating growth and innovation always seemed pretty exciting to me, once I was introduced to the plight of the labourers, I started thinking along a different track. Right now, the world is exploiting the willingness of people in developing countries to work at exorbitantly cheap wages and thus manufacture products at a staggering rate, but this is not a sustainable model.
Imagine a time when even countries like China and our own have developed, who would the world turn to then? Countries even more destitute I imagine. Say this goes on, and at a point (though it seems pretty far off) every country is developed to a large extent, wouldn’t our whole rapid upgrade model bite us right in the derrière? We actually might not even have to worry about that possibility, as our environment itself would not be able to sustain such rapid and pervasive development for long.
Don’t take me wrong here; I’m not against technological innovation. In fact, being a tech-blogger, innovation is pretty much my bread-and-butter. What I am against is non-sustainable innovation, and that is the state of our mobile market right now. There are new SoC’s, new camera modules, new screen technologies coming out of every nook and cranny of the world right now, and we’ve gotten to the point that even a phone from 6 months ago starts looking pretty dated.
We need to remember that this cannot go on forever. We need to remember that there are thousands of people out there, working more than they are paid for, just to make sure enough of us get our spanking new iPhones on time. We direly need more stability in the mobile market, for our sake, and the world’s.

Idea for new forum about Warraty, Repairs and Replacement

XDA is a mainly community of developers. However we all use mobile devices, they are sometimes faulty, damaged, bricked and so on.
In highly developed countries customers are usually respected, quality control of products for these markets is usually better. In less developed countries customers are sometimes held in contept when it comes to warranty service.
I think as a community we may also bring a bit of light on subject of after sales services - divided by brands/countries.
Why do that?
Buying product is not only about its functionality but also about after purchase services.
We like to tinker in stuff we unlock permanently bootloaders, root devices and some producers claim that it affects even warranty of charger, water resistance of phones and similar things that are ridiculous so it should be exposed. Phone(or any mobile device) is just like PC. Which producer will claim that we broken PC hardware by changing or tinkering with OS? None! Why it does not fully apply to mobile devices world?
There should be a place to describe our experiences with customer support by brands not just a single devices.
Quality of hardware repairs in some cases is LOW, we may apply a bit of pressure on producers to change it.
This forum should require more posts and thanks to actively participate in to prevent large scale abuse - black marketing .

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