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Bluetooth GPS - Very Poor Performance!?

Is it just me/my hardware or is GPS over Bluetooth absolutely rubbish!?
I tried a Holux GR-230 unit first but had the usual problems in getting it connected. When I finally did, I was apalled by it's performance, usually failing to get a gps lock at all.
So I ditched it in favour of a Rikaline GPS-6031-X7. It picked up far mor signals and usually obtained a lock almost instantly. However, it's accuracy is very disappointing. Positional accuracy - it's usually ok on a motorway or dual carriageway but at slower speeds, it jumps all over the place, forwards, backwards, in the middle of fields hundreds of yards away - and that's the worst time for it to happen 'cos it's when you slow down for a junction that you actually need it. The second issue is directional accuracy - it often shows me driving sideways as it's so sloooooow to update/recalc the direction.
If this was my first experience of gps, I might be able to forgive it without a benchmark to judge it against. But I've used Navman with an iPaq, a LAM1 unit with my Nokia 9210 and a (cheap) CF device with my Dell Axim and they all performed far, far better! I know that TomTom Navigator 2 isn't the problem as it performed flawlessly on my Axim (PXA255).
So what's going wrong? Is it the bluetooth devices, or the bluetooth technology, or the XDA II? Will O2's bluetooth update improve matters?
I can no longer rely on this and I'm going to have to start taking map backups - something I've never had to do before and really defeats the object.
Any thoughts, experiences, comments, answers?????
Ged.

I think your problem could be the gps receiver.
I am using the Navman 4400 with my XDAII. It took some time and a couple of patches (from this site, thanks guys) to get it to bond via bluetooth, but now it's setup, it works great. It seems to be very accurate and tells me to exit roundabouts just at the correct time.
It's a bit slow to get the initial fix when first switched on (about 2 minutes) but once connected I have no problems.
Is the gps receiver positioned by a heated screen? If so, this will block the signal and produce the problems you describe.

Have you changed your car? Some newer cars have reflective windshields that can cause problems.
Cheers

Thanks guys. I know of both of the issues you describe but I drive a 3 year old clio 172 - no heated/reflective screen. The receiver usually sits on the dash and receives a very strong signal from upwards of 6 sats.
I've now emailed Rikaline too so we'll see what they come up with (if anything).

I am using the Holux GR-230 and it works flawlessly with towas latest patch 1.0.1.2, a very accurate gps based on my own observations with tomtom2.

Hi guys
I have recently received my new XDA II from Orange (know as SPV M1000)
I am using it with the Fortuna Clip On GPS, Tom Tom Navigator and a Jabra 250 headset.
So far I have had no problems with the GPS, it works every time. On a rare ocasion I have to reset the phone to get the head set to work but this is very rare.
Not sure if orange have modified the software but it all seems to work.

I'm beginning to think that it's the XDA that's at fault. I know TTN2 is ok, you guys aren't having any probs with bluetooth gps devices in general, and I'd have to be extremely unlucky to have TWO faulty gps receivers from different manufacturers!
Persuading O2 that it's faulty is another matter though.

i work in the in car navi business and a 3 year old cleo does have a metalic winscreen apart from the hatched area around the rear view mirror (for use with toll tags and other antennas).You will nead a re-radateing antenna mounted externally to get propper reception as the cleo also has a faradays cage effect making radio reception within the cab area very difficult.(they are a ***** to work on)

pinkslayer, shove it in somebody elses car, or slap it on the roof of yours and see how it go's in that location.

Should know my car a bit better really!
I had tried mounting the Holux in front of the rear view mirror but this didn't help so I didn't bother trying the Rikaline. And my wife has a clio too so no point trying it in hers.
So even though I'm locking on to 5-6 sats, it's still not sufficient!? Or is the metallic screen just causing additional latency?

Its not the number of sats, its the strength of the signal received, I have seen 8 sats showing but tomtom wont attempt a route until the signals are strong enough for a lock,

Rikaline GPS-6031-X7
hi all
i use a Rikaline -x7 with TomTom Navigator 2 on my xda ll with the bluetooth pach from
http://bluetooth.i-networx.de/index_e.html
and the update is slow when taking corners (ie the map is slow to turn to the heads up position) or if you come of a motorway/ dual carriageway thats not on the calulated route it will take some time to acknowledge this
but i do not have the problem of it at slower speeds it jumps all over the place
As for accuracy my old tomtom wired gps was better
but the Rikaline-x7 is usable

Thanks peops. I've now tried mounting it on the rear parcel shelf and also stuck it to the shaded area above the rvm but to no avail (even when it was back on the dash this morning, it took 11 minutes to get a fix and another 5 before it could calc direction - cloudy day!). As soon as it's dry enough, I'll mount it outside the car and see how it is.
I don't really want to do down the re-radateing antenna route as the whole point of having portable equipment is that you can use it anywhere and in any vehicle.

Im using the Rikaline GPS 6031-X7 and Im really happy with, no problems at all in fact I think its brilliant............

I'm using the fortuna clipon in a landy with heated windscreen. It doesn't seem to affect the signal (with or without the screen on) and I have to say i was expecting problems with it. It has been the only thing about the whole BT GPS/XDAII setup that I haven't had problems with..
Technology eh!

Does Pretec Compact GPS work with the XDAII BackPack?

Hi.
I already own a Pretec Compact Flash GPS unit from my days with a Toshiba E740 (another story!), has anybody tested this with the BackPack for XDAII?
If it works I will try and get a backpack, otherwise will get a new Bluetooth GPS unit. Prefer to get the backpack though, as it has other benifits.
Thanks
PBman

Good luck getting a backpack HTC doesn't seem much interested in supporting their old customers by making accessories.

I have one backpack and one wifi CF card with my Qtek2020 and all works fine. I think that the GPS CF card works fine too.

Well even if it works in the device I wonder how well a GPS unit will work with the aerial at the bottom... I am right in thinking that the compact flash unit is at the bottom of the backpack.
As for getting one, this is Moscow... if its been released you can normally find it, and if its not been released you will probably still find it
Perhaps I will go bluetooth GPS, and flogthe pretec off on Ebay...

i really doubt that connecting a grps in the buttom should matter much to the signal strength
i mean i can turn my phone upside down and speak just fine
or a HAMM radio antenna for that matter
it's much more about the length of the antenna then how high as in hand held human heigth you put it
if you want to know more search on google about dipol antenna math

But surely if the GPS unit is at the bottom some of the satellite signal will be blocked by the unit and your hands etc. also in a car the aerial would be down into the car and not up high in the windscreen.
Thought GPS needed pretty good line of sight.

not sure about gps
but in general those cm's difference in heigth from the ground should not be that different for radio waves
and your hand should not be able to block that much
i cant claim to know all that much about gps
but i would worry much more about the quality of the gps reciever then the location when the difference is not greater

It depends on the GPS. A lot of the newer ones, like the Bluetooth GPS's, can work through minor obstructions. I saw a review of the Socket Bluetooth GPS and it worked for the tester in his car's glove compartment.

PDA's and health concerns!

Guys, this ain't an upgrade nor a hack issue. It is more important than all that. It is about health and how health friendly those devices are :!:
I have been hearing lots of issues about the radiation generated by either the GSM, BT or WiFi signals!
Is it true that it is not wise to carry the PPC next to the heart in the pocket or on the side pocket? Has there ever been an official report or research done on this and found it is not too friendly :?:
I know that this forum has got people from all over the globe. Therefore some of those countries might have researched and would have announced it, but mind you.. "Official Announcement
Please advise since it is a worry I've got :roll:

i've read more cases where study said that it was no problem that the other way around same thing with utms (3g)
but even if it were a problem that your hart would never be the troublesome place
your head and your testicles would be that place where it could cause issues
high watt transmision cause inc in celluar activities your hart is just a pump and need high volts expousre to react to anything like that
your brain are a pile of fat tissue where the neural transmitors and cemestry cause thinging and emotions celluar changing can be an issue there
and your semen aswell semen are preduced as a copy of the earlier produced so celluar changes which are high enough to mutate could be a problem
but cellphones are nowhere near as troublesome as highvolt lines and the wifi networks
only place you can 100% safe in in a big lead safe

Rudegar do you mean that GSM is more harmless than wifi? As far as I know the transmition power of GSM can go up as much as 2Watts in areas with low signal while wifi is only miliwatts!

wifi is always gsm is only when you make a call
i speak of wifi where you dont just use wifi at places where there are hotspots but you having a wifi network maybe some transcievers to str up the signal and such
and i also do believe that wifi is stronger then bluetooth which is just a few miliwatt dident check it though

Hello,
I'm no doctor but what I can tell you based on wireless emmissions is that if you use a bluetooth headset, and keep the device as far away from you as possible. The emmissions are reduced considerably.
A bluetooth headset has a range of 5 meters, whereas Wi-Fi or Cell Transmission are a hundred times that. Which makes me think that having a bluetooth headset near your ear, is a hundred times less strong than having a mobile phone, this gives me a peace of mind.
What is to keep in mind is that, especially during conversation. Not to leave the device inside your pocket plugged within your belt. This causes more problems as the testicles are more prone to damage than the brain is. Thus even when using the bluetooth headset. In effect its better to keep the device at a distance from your body.
Also note that using a mobile phone inside a car (especially new ones), is dangerous... Why? Because the car's shield acts as a mirror to the radio-waves. It reflects 10 to 20 times within the car, thus the radiation within the car is reflected and causing higher radiation within.. Solution? External antenna, I don`t have one, but when I use the mobile, I put it far away on the dashboard, close to the window to reflect the least radiation possible within the car. Please note that all PDA2Ks and PocketPC phones have a builtin slot to connect external antenna!
Well in fact you're right about the Lead Box.. But really, I believe that when I'm going to the beach, under the sun. Im not only getting a high dose of ultraviolet rays. Lieing down, my body is probably able to receive a 1200 channels from astra (some encrypted) and another 400 from Hotbird. Its also constantly receiving the Date and Time from GPS Satellites to calculate the location. On the other side when standing up, I'm probably getting 40 Terrestrial Channels and another 100 FM Channels. Apart from the Wi-Fi stations AND Cellular Antennas nearby.
the world is becoming clattered in radio communications. Its a must of our everyday life, the trick is to be aware of it and where possible to reduce it.
Small note about signal strenght :
The mobile's radio transmitting voltage is set according to the signal strenght.
In areas with low signal strenght, the voltage is incresed, thus increasing the radiation.
Regards,
Eman

Hello,
I'm no doctor but what I can tell you based on wireless emmissions is that if you use a bluetooth headset, and keep the device as far away from you as possible. The emmissions are reduced considerably.
A bluetooth headset has a range of 5 meters, whereas Wi-Fi or Cell Transmission are a hundred times that. Which makes me think that having a bluetooth headset near your ear, is a hundred times less strong than having a mobile phone, this gives me a peace of mind.
What is to keep in mind is that, especially during conversation. Not to leave the device inside your pocket plugged within your belt. This causes more problems as the testicles are more prone to damage than the brain is. Thus even when using the bluetooth headset. In effect its better to keep the device at a distance from your body.
Also note that using a mobile phone inside a car (especially new ones), is dangerous... Why? Because the car's shield acts as a mirror to the radio-waves. It reflects 10 to 20 times within the car, thus the radiation within the car is reflected and causing higher radiation within.. Solution? External antenna, I don`t have one, but when I use the mobile, I put it far away on the dashboard, close to the window to reflect the least radiation possible within the car. Please note that all PDA2Ks and PocketPC phones have a builtin slot to connect external antenna!
Well in fact you're right about the Lead Box.. But really, I believe that when I'm going to the beach, under the sun. Im not only getting a high dose of ultraviolet rays. Lieing down, my body is probably able to receive a 1200 channels from astra (some encrypted) and another 400 from Hotbird. Its also constantly receiving the Date and Time from GPS Satellites to calculate the location. On the other side when standing up, I'm probably getting 40 Terrestrial Channels and another 100 FM Channels. Apart from the Wi-Fi stations AND Cellular Antennas nearby.
the world is becoming clattered in radio communications. Its a must of our everyday life, the trick is to be aware of it and where possible to reduce it.
Small note about signal strenght :
The mobile's radio transmitting voltage is set according to the signal strenght.
In areas with low signal strenght, the voltage is incresed, thus increasing the radiation.
Regards,
Eman

GPS receivers questions

Hi,
Got my new bluetooth gps receiver a couple of days ago and I just have afew questions: It's a QSTARZ BT - Q880
1. It states that this receiver is 32 channel but when i check on tomtom how many sates i'm connected to I have only ever had a max of 8???
2. The gps works fine in the day but i tested at night and it cannot get a signal? I drove around for around 10 mins but still no signal? I doubt if the gps is faulty because it works fine in normal daytime light? I've also had my old ipaq with original wired tomtom receiver next to it and that picked up no problem.
any ideas on the above
cheers

hi
32 channels is just a bit of a gimmick 8 sats is around average for most standard BT receivers , SirfIII receivers due to there superior technology may average 10 or so.
The signal is not affected by light but can be interupted by other atmospheric conditions. When you are trying to get a lock don't drive around as this will just prolong the time to first fix. Also what vechicle are you driving and what is the position of the reciever . Many new cars have Thermic coatings on the windscreen which will lower the incoming GPS signals. When trying to get a fix check the sat screen in tomtom Grey bars indicate a satelite that can be seen but does not have a fix on its location. Blue bars are fixed satelites. you need 3 to get a 3d fix. Also try putting the receiver on the roof to determing if the car or surroundings are affecting signal stength.
If all this fails to shed any light on the problems maybe you have a tempramental reveiver .
Hope this helps
Keep me updated
Fergy

hi mate cheers for the reply. just a quick update i can get a signal indoors now no problem but havent had time to check at night again. I think when i first tested it was just one of them days but so far i'm really happy with it. Just gotta get used to tomtom on a wizard screen insteasd of an ipaq.
cheers

little or no signal please help

I bought this magician off Ebay before I found this wonderful site. I have learned that I can't ever uprade to WM5 but I did manage to get latest ROM and radio. My signal is very low and sometimes the phone just searches for a network all day in my house. My Blue Angel never has a problem and I get max bars even in my basement. Is there any way to tweak the phone/upgrade my antenna? Aside from the "seen on TV" antenna booster which I embarassingly now own.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=249435&highlight=
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=234873&highlight=

The second link allowed me to examine and modify my antenna. Now I have the signal strength I wanted. Thanks for your help.