Is wondering whether it would be theoretically possible to run custom built Windows Embedded Compact 2013 image on Surface RT. The drivers are there.. not sure they are compatible with the platform though...
The biggest question would be, how to get the built image to boot on Surface?
I find the full blown RT quite harsh on Tegra 3, so I'd give something lighter a try. A custom written UI is not a probleem in this case, I know some programming
Any reference or ideas would be greatly apperciated
Short answer: you can't, don't bother.
Longer answer: You would need to defeat Secure Boot first. All RT devices have mandatory Secure Boot, and unless you could get Microsoft to sign your image, it wouldn't boot. Even if you could, though, there's very little chance of you getting it working. For one thing, even if WEC13 has the required drivers for *some* of the RT's hardware, it surely doesn't have all of them. For another, unless there's been a major change in the CE kernel recently, it doesn't support symmetric multiprocessing so you'd lose 3/4 of the CPU power of the Tegra 3.
For single threaded tasks it may be lighter weight, but as GoodDayToDie points out, it doesnt fully support multicore systems (hardly rare among real time kernels, not to say multicore real time kernels don't exist because they do). So yeah, your 4+1 core system will just become 1 core. I haven't heard of CE running on tegra so there probably isn't a video driver so you will be software rendering too.
CE on the surface hardware would be interesting, but it wouldnt be any easier to port than linux (quite the opposite) and ultimately linux would perform better and be more useful than CE.
Well, older Tegra chips powered some CE devices (the ZuneHD comes to mind) but yeah, I don't know of any that run on Tegra3. Agreed on Linux being easier (since there are Linux Tegra3 devices right now) and more useful (there being tons of software for Linux, and it being, a better kernel than CE for multi-core, or really for anything except extremely low-power hardware). Neither one is practical until a Secure Boot bypass is found, though.
Related
I know what the stated requirements for it are and the Fuze/ Touch Pro won't get an official rom, but do you think it will be possible for one of our expert chefs here to cook one? I know there is no multitouch and a relatively slow processor and graphics, and no WVGA screen but it has enough rom and ram, has GPS, accelerometer, and enough buttons. I'm inclined to think that, barring some weird lockout Microsoft does, we should be able to get it to work. Thoughts?
winmobo 7 isn't out
No we won't. Minimum 1GHz processor onboard is requierd and capacitive display, so automatically our Raphael is disqualified of getting WM7
needmoney said:
No we won't. Minimum 1GHz processor onboard is requierd and capacitive display, so automatically our Raphael is disqualified of getting WM7
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First of all, nobody knows what the "hard" requirements of Windows Mobile 7 are.
Second, there have been documented instances from LinkedIn (and other sites) stating development projects including developing, implementing and optimizing WinMo 7 for MSM7k chipsets (I'd know, as that's what my phone, the Vogue, uses)--and the MSM7k chipset never supported a 1Ghz chip, let alone even a 600 Mhz chip, nor a capacitive screen.
I know it's not out and I know what the supposed requirements are for chassis 1 http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2752, but I believe we got wm 6.5 on some old phones that don't meet the specs for thatso I would think we could do it with wm 7 as well with the Touch Pro. The one thing that concerns me is the requirement for multitouch as that could gimp the interface.
@Shidell: That's interesting; that makes me even more hopeful. Do you think this thread should have been in the rom section where some of the chefs might see it? I really think worst case would be that it works slowly without multitouch.
Winmo6&6.5(and 5?) are CE5 based, the seventh will be "CE6" based. (That will also mean we kick the ass of 32 process limit.) This means fundamental changes so the risk for 7 is high not to be suitable for older devices
I guess that's true; I hope you are wrong though.
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=12237
Found this very interesting article on gsmarena about an upcoming tablet by Viewsonic... I never thought it was possible but dual booting Windows 7 and Android 2.2+ ? What does this mean for our Gtab? your thoughts?
http://blog.gsmarena.com/viewsonic-unveils-dual-sim-v350-phone-and-dual-boot-viewpad-10pro/
**I hope that our Gtab would live on even after all these radical tablet advances for 2011.
Intel CPU. For Android, it must be compiled for that CPU I assume - but since so many apps are ARM-based it might limit its usefulness.
atom cpu = crap battery life for this type of device. About the same as a netbook, 3.5 hrs or so compared to 10+ hrs of ARM based tegra2 in gtabs. Plus win7 on an atom performance would probably be pretty low. Not worth it.
s14tam said:
atom cpu = crap battery life for this type of device. About the same as a netbook, 3.5 hrs or so compared to 10+ hrs of ARM based tegra2 in gtabs. Plus win7 on an atom performance would probably be pretty low. Not worth it.
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this i agree on... kinda funny how, in the article, viewsonic stated that the battery life will "last at least 6 hours"... with day-to-day use that might translate to about 3-4 hours tops just hope that Gtab support by viewsonic (however little it may be) won't be discontinued just cuz they have a new toy to market now...
Inclined to also agree but must say that the atom cpu on my HP2140 netbook running win7 Pro isn't the slowest turtle in the race. Extended battery gives me about 5-6 hrs. Wouldn't expect that life on a tab though.
Recently, I've been doing some testing of Android X86, and their FAQ mentions that some Apps may work, while others, that use native ARM code, won't. I know that that's probably pretty obvious, but it seems like VS should caution potential users about that, or they'll get a bunch of unhappy users when they can't run all Android Alps.
Jim
Nah this isnt a run of the mill Atom. Its the one they made after Moorestown to fight these ARM tabs. Oak trail is an SOC much like Tegra. Its supposed to have super low TDP and pull off ARM like battery life. Since desktop apps tend to be more demanding, this remains to be seen.
I don't think they said it will have full market ability stock anyways so people can't really complain if it can't run all apps.
Also, doubt any x86 proc can match an ARM chip in battery even if it is a SOC. Viewsonics page even seems to confirm this as it says it is rated for 4hrs.
At work, we're starting to talk with Microsoft about ARM versions of Windows. I've tossed my name into the hat as a developer. I suspect I won't be able to use my G-Tablet but will forced to get some other Windows ARM device.
So far Microsoft is keeping things fairly quiet on the ARM front. I expect to find out more in the next several months.
Sent from my G-Tablet running Vega-Nb5.1
Unlike the first Viewpad 10 you don't have to reboot to switch between Android and Windows. Here's a video:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/14/viewsonic-viewpad-10pro-hands-on/
http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/26/7485225-is-this-what-amazons-tablet-will-look-like
The news today is that Amazon will soon be selling a new Android powered tablet at a very attractive price. According to this... http://www.technobuffalo.com/technobuffalo/opinion/noahs-top-5-gadgets-coming-soon/ "Amazon’s tablet computer will run Android but feature Intel-based innards, and not an Nvidia Tegra processor"
Forgive my ignorance, but are there any devices shipping right now running Android on an Intel platform? What do those that know much more than me about the subject think an Intel powered Android tablet means to XDA?
good price，i am looking forward to see it。
Spyvie said:
Forgive my ignorance, but are there any devices shipping right now running Android on an Intel platform?
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There is no "Intel" platform. There's ARM and x86 and MIPS, and a few others. PCs (including Macs) use x86, phones and tablets like iPad and Android-based ones are ARM, routers are usually MIPS.
If this Amazon tablet will have Intel-innards, it probably means Atom processor, which means the first Android tablet using x86 instead of ARM (Atom is a x86 processor).
Spyvie said:
What do those that know much more than me about the subject think an Intel powered Android tablet means to XDA?
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Main thing, a much higher possibility to be able to run a traditional Linux distro on it. Beyond that, we'll have to see.
Hmm.. I'd rather see an arm cortex-a9. Arm seems to work really well in phones and tablets and the arm9 is just as fast as the intel if I remember correctly.
sk8aseth said:
Hmm.. I'd rather see an arm cortex-a9. Arm seems to work really well in phones and tablets and the arm9 is just as fast as the intel if I remember correctly.
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It is clock per clock but intel processors scale higher
I thought intel mobile platform running honeycomb wasn't performing too well last i heard. Battery life is a huge concern too
sk8aseth said:
Hmm.. I'd rather see an arm cortex-a9. Arm seems to work really well in phones and tablets and the arm9 is just as fast as the intel if I remember correctly.
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At lower clocks yes, but as mentioned before, once you start increasing the power usage and clocks, that's when arm can't keep up and when x86 shines. ARM is normally only more powerful than x86 CPUs while the tdp is under 1 watt, which is the case for most mobile devices. However try scaling an arm CPU to over 125 watts (average x86 tdp) and the scaling is horrible. They are two different platforms built for two different reasons. BUT what I'm thinking Intel is doing here is that they are going to maybe try and muscle their way into the ARM market. With the announcement that windows 8 will support ARM, I think this chip will be their "test" run. If they do get into the market, it will open up an entire new horizon for them (hope that sounds right). This would especially help with the ultrabook concept they are working on.
Do the Android netbooks run x86?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab using Tapatalk
rustyshack3 said:
Do the Android netbooks run x86?
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The one netbook with Android I saw a while ago was x86, yes. It was a dual-boot Android/Windows machine. Though Android on a netbook makes no sense. None whatsoever.
However, there are ARM-based Android netbooks too, like the Toshiba AC100.
dreadlord369 said:
At lower clocks yes, but as mentioned before, once you start increasing the power usage and clocks, that's when arm can't keep up and when x86 shines. ARM is normally only more powerful than x86 CPUs while the tdp is under 1 watt, which is the case for most mobile devices. However try scaling an arm CPU to over 125 watts (average x86 tdp) and the scaling is horrible. They are two different platforms built for two different reasons. BUT what I'm thinking Intel is doing here is that they are going to maybe try and muscle their way into the ARM market. With the announcement that windows 8 will support ARM, I think this chip will be their "test" run. If they do get into the market, it will open up an entire new horizon for them (hope that sounds right). This would especially help with the ultrabook concept they are working on.
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You can actually thank apple for lighting a fire under intel for the mobile platform when they told them that their processor isn't cutting it and that they will use ARM based processors in their laptop.
For whatever the reason, apple is burning a lot of bridges and somewhat putting all of their egg in one basket before confirming that TSMC's yield is good enough to meet their demands
ph00ny said:
You can actually thank apple for lighting a fire under intel for the mobile platform when they told them that their processor isn't cutting it and that they will use ARM based processors in their laptop.
For whatever the reason, apple is burning a lot of bridges and somewhat putting all of their egg in one basket before confirming that TSMC's yield is good enough to meet their demands
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Yea I actually remember reading about that. I believe that they mentioned that their next gen would use ARM based CPU's or is my head making that up? Either way, this should help intel in the long run (if their ARM line is successful). Yea and they did the same thing with Samsung, they stopped using their chips and parts. I'm guessing they want to make everything in-house, I don't know how that's gonna work out, but hey, they will probably pull through judging from past actions and events.
EDIT: I realized something, they don't want to keep everything in house, but rather, they don't want major competitors (such as samsung) making parts for them.
dreadlord369 said:
Yea I actually remember reading about that. I believe that they mentioned that their next gen would use ARM based CPU's or is my head making that up? Either way, this should help intel in the long run (if their ARM line is successful). Yea and they did the same thing with Samsung, they stopped using their chips and parts. I'm guessing they want to make everything in-house, I don't know how that's gonna work out, but hey, they will probably pull through judging from past actions and events.
EDIT: I realized something, they don't want to keep everything in house, but rather, they don't want major competitors (such as samsung) making parts for them.
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I don't think Intel is going to build an ARM processor instead focus heavily on power efficiency on their current low power processor variants. Remember that ultrabook will utilized various Core I processors
As for apple, as said many times before. They do not make anything in house.
ph00ny said:
I don't think Intel is going to build an ARM processor instead focus heavily on power efficiency on their current low power processor variants. Remember that ultrabook will utilized various Core I processors
As for apple, as said many times before. They do not make anything in house.
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About the in house part yea I realized and corrected that with the edit. My bad. But for the ultrabooks, you're right, I forgot that they are going to use the Core i variants. But while you may be right and that intel might be releasing an ultra efficient atom architecture, I dunno, I still think that a move into the ARM market would be a smart move for them.
Is it possible to get andriod running on native x86 architecture? If so how many of you guys would be willing to shell out cash to get a gaming system powered by google and steam?
Specs would likely be a tri core processor on the entry model, packed with 3 gb ddr, a 5770 gpu, and a low profile mod, wifi, 1tb hdd, 2 usb, fiber optical out, coaxial in, hdmi, bluetooth.
Just theoretically, if someone came out with a device like this, how much would you be willing to pay for it? It would have no screen, and would work in hd on tv, record video etc. Would you want to buy it at wll?
Also say if yiu will there are three builds of this device with similar specs, but more ram and a bettercpu for a higher pricepoint. Which model would you get, low end, mid end, or high end . Gpu remaine the same as to have a stable experience across the board.
Several people have already ported Android to x86 (such as here for example). APP_ABI := x86 is even one of the options you can put in your Application.mk when building an app.
Is there Android support of NDK to the x86 version of Android?
Is our device suited for the purpose of productivity? Is our device worth it for the Maru Custom ROM??? What do you guys think? Will it work well on our device?
If you haven't heard of it, check it out at:
http://maruos.com/#/
It sounds AWESOME....
Well, I think Maru OS is rather pointless on the class of hardware the Tab 2 represents.
Why?
Let us take a look at it this way: The BeagleBone Black ARM board features similar specs to the Galaxy Tab 2 ... Ti Sitara AM335x Cortex-A8 Dual-Core at 1GHz, PowerVR SGX 530 GPU, 1GB RAM - not a exact match but very close to what makes the Tab 2 tick.
Boot the BeagleBone Black into a graphical Linux environment (i.e. Ubuntu ARM) and _TRY_ to do something productive in it. Chances are you're going to throw a temper tantrum after a few minutes because it runs like molasses. Apart from that, the Tab 2 doesn't have the required functionality to put it into a "Dock" and make it display something on a externally connected monitor (most of the ARM boards at least come with a HDMI connector and USB ports for connecting up a keyboard and mouse).
Don't get me wrong, Maru OS is a great idea - it's just no option for old under-powered devices also lacking the required interfaces to connect a external display to them. In terms of performance and productivity on a portable device you're way better off with a cheapo Chromebook (though I'm not sure if they feature a HDMI or DisplayPort connector).
BoneWithABeagle said:
Well, I think Maru OS is rather pointless on the class of hardware the Tab 2 represents.
Why?
Let us take a look at it this way: The BeagleBone Black ARM board features similar specs to the Galaxy Tab 2 ... Ti Sitara AM335x Cortex-A8 Dual-Core at 1GHz, PowerVR SGX 530 GPU, 1GB RAM - not a exact match but very close to what makes the Tab 2 tick.
Boot the BeagleBone Black into a graphical Linux environment (i.e. Ubuntu ARM) and _TRY_ to do something productive in it. Chances are you're going to throw a temper tantrum after a few minutes because it runs like molasses. Apart from that, the Tab 2 doesn't have the required functionality to put it into a "Dock" and make it display something on a externally connected monitor (most of the ARM boards at least come with a HDMI connector and USB ports for connecting up a keyboard and mouse).
Don't get me wrong, Maru OS is a great idea - it's just no option for old under-powered devices also lacking the required interfaces to connect a external display to them. In terms of performance and productivity on a portable device you're way better off with a cheapo Chromebook (though I'm not sure if they feature a HDMI or DisplayPort connector).
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What ROM do you use on your device? Just asking. Am sticking to CM 13.
adityabanerjee1303 said:
What ROM do you use on your device? Just asking. Am sticking to CM 13.
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I sold my Tab 2 to a friend of mine quite a while ago. However, it is running Kit Kat because that was the last custom ROM on which BlueTooth audio at least still worked ("Dock Audio" last worked on CM10.1), since he's using the Tablet as a DLNA endpoint connected to his stereo to stream music to it is rather important that headphone (line connection to his amp), WiFi and BlueTooth audio works as intended.
I'm actually using a Nexus 10 I picked up for cheap ever since I gave away the 3110.