Hi
i was just reading a thread entitled 'are we all running a pirated version of WM6 on our wizards'
and it got me thinking.
theres a legal grey area surrounding xda-devs, namely, the roms that have been placed onto the ftp/forums that are the 'intellectual property' or whatever of microsoft as they were initially intended to be run as 'beta' builds despite being HEAVILY modified by the great members of this community.
so, i thought......
Why doesnt www.xda-developers.com sit down with someone from HTC and similar to how Orange or Cingular are re-branding HTC devices, why don't Xda-Devs setup their OWN OEM company.
HTC *could* (in an ideal world) sell the devices onto xda-devs or an affiliate with the devices set-up as having Super-CID, sim-unlock and being able to run unofficial code on them.
the biggest problem i think HTC have with releasing builds of OS's to the masses is the simple fact that a lot 'joe bloggs'' will ring up MS moaning about how their phone doesnt work...
but, what if the xda-devs company's contract states that the devices are sold with NO support, apart from any support provided from the forums/community at large. this way, nobody would be ringing up HTC as presumably you would have to have found this site, have a little know-how and know what you would be buying from the xda-devs company.
that way, HTC could itself release builds of the OS's to xda-devs for xda-devs to then modify, patch and optimise. this build can then be released to the masses by HTC as a stable build. HTC could as a result of this collaboration sell the devices to xda-devs at a lower cost.
i admit, it sounds a little far-fetched, but im bored and looking for a point of discussion! it could be done though i think, all you'd have to do is find some investors to buy the initial devices to sell- and of course some way to clear this with HTC!
discuss!lol\
While in concept it isn't a bad idea, I've got to point out one major flaw of humanity... our need to place blame.
Selling an unsupported device, be it new or old takes away the ability to blame someone when things go wrong.
However, some sort of support could be offered in the form of:
1. If flashing your device to the original ROM it came with doesn't fix the problem then the issue is 99% of the time hardware related. Call HTC for warranty service, within 1 year of course.
2. I bricked my phone, bootloader doesn't work thus I can't flash it. Same warranty applies.
Anything else is customer's fault, you're on your own.
Of course this could only work with GSM or rather SIM enabled devices. ESN based devices couldn't be part of this venture. Don't know about other CDMA countries out there, but at least in the US Sprint will CATEGORICALLY REFUSE to register an ESN that is not in their database, whereas Verizon will, but you've got to sweet talk the store manager.
Still, even with these little clauses this whole thing is a huge class action lawsuit just waiting to happen.
Although this would be grate for us, as far as the commercial parties are concerned there is a ton of problems with this idea:
a) HTC pays M$ for every copy of WM based on the components they include.
So you still can't legally cook your own ROM.
b) This would get HTC in trouble with every brand and telco they deal with.
c) This will significantly prolong the life of the devices and reduce profits for HTC.
d) xda-dev is not a commercial body and is in no position (I am stating this from what I know of the site, official comment is left to the management) to make any official order for HTC to even consider.
But the project you describe already exists, it just does not run M$ crap:
www.openmoko.com
MobileCrunch are reporting that HTC threatens handset hackers with legal action for distributing ROMs.
http://ongoingissues.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/htc-threatens-handset-hackers-with-legal-action/
maybe we, the community should build a list of user, a signature of opposing people to the closure of the site. stating that the use of the ROMs is for the purpose of cooking our own ROMs and increase the usability, performance, and desirability of the HTC handsets.
Maybe HTC need to be made aware of how much their customer base relys on ROMs for development of the HTC Handsets, and possibly go as far as to list who wouldn't buy a handset without access to other ROMs.
If Froyo doesn't come to the Desire, I WILL be installing a modified ROM regardless of HTCs feelings, and if this becomes impossible, I WILL be changing to a different brand and boycott HTC from then on. I feel very strongly about the users right to modify their phone in any way they see fit.
I dont even use the roms but i appreciate the work and effort put into them on the chance that i might use them. I also love HTC hardware because of the huge communities developed and bought my Touch Pro 2 based on the outside support that exists and if it were to get taken down by HTC i would second guess my next purchase of a Touch Pro 3 (i know it doesnt exist but something along the lines).
And as far as recommendations of hardware this site alone has swayed alot of coworkers into buying HTC hardware knowing they can tweak there purchase if the need arises.
As a matter of fact, I am now using the HTC support contact form to tell them how wrong they are in promoting this action.
The main reason because of which I didn't buy a iloserphone but chose a WM device is that I can play with it as much as I want.
In that letter it also specifically says "...or of all infringing works derived from the Intellectual Property", which means basically CUSTOM roms, the ones we're all using.
First comes shipped-roms.com, then will be the turn of XDA which hosts links to said custom roms and/or stock roms, same goes for htcpedia and everything else.
If they want to shut themselves down by making their users hate their devices, their choice, but probably we ought to let them know they're just being stupid.
Here's the message I sent them via their website, I encourage you to write them in the big numbers.
Hi.
I am the happy owner of a HD2, and I really am satisfied this device. One of the reasons I am satisfied is because of its hardware specs, the other maybe more important one is that I can actually change the way it works to perfectly suit my needs. Otherwise, I could very well dump it for an iphone.
Now, I know that the person reading this message will be a support employee, and by no means anyone who actually makes the decisions, yet I stringly encourage you to forward this mail to the upper levels.
I just learned that HTC sent a C&D letter to shipped-roms.com.
I know the legal mumbo-jumbo HTC is all about on that decision and I don't need any of that.
I also know another thing: excluding the people who buy your devices just because they were bundled with some dataplan by some carrier, and have no clue how to really use them other than as simple phones, there is a LARGE part of people, including myself, who buy your devices because they like the way they can be customized and how they can be made so much more powerful than what they came out of the store.
If you start acting against websites that allow us "power users" to get the most out of our phones, then it's like you're acting against your customers, and that is a very silly thing.
I can easily see how this kind of action could be taken further, against other leading community websites dedicated to your devices.
If and when you will do that, you will repay the dedication of your customers with legal threats, and you will instantly lose the interest in your products by the same people that now love them for the reasons I explained in this letter.
Please think carefully about it.
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ephestione said:
As a matter of fact, I am now using the HTC support contact form to tell them how wrong they are in promoting this action...
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Thanks! I'm doing the same right now. Apple is not a loser in the game, they dont shut down websites of so-called "hackers" who tweak, crack and write programs which jailbreak their iPhone, and they could just do it, they have plenty of reason to do it BUT only one NOT to do it: $!
I told you, Apple is not so stupid... unlike HTC who shoots itself in the head!(hoping the damages will be soft?) Really silly...
Edit: here's mine:
It recently came to my knowledge that HTC sent a C&D letter to the website shipped-roms.com and if this is true, and you are serious about it, please do re-consider your decision. As a proud owner of an UNBRANDED HTC HD2, HTC BLACKSTONE AND HTC DIAMOND 2, I am asking you to not bother the core of your business: without the shipped roms and the subsequent custom roms from it, I, just like hundreds of thousands of HTC owners around the world (just look at the membership of various forums offering custom roms), would not have bought an HTC device. Why we did buy it was the possibility to modify it to fit our needs, this includes by the means of custom roms too, but not only. If you take this from us, you're left with the "carriers dependant" customers who are, by far, the minority of your customers. If you're serious in taking down websites that make us buy your devices, you will have to face the consequences because without shipped rom, we will just jump ship! As you already know, the competition is tough so you better think this legal action twice if you don't want the value of your shares to melt like snow at the beginning of spring.
I have no words about what HTC is doing. I totally agree with ephestione, and if xda-developers did not exist (or any other similar forum), I would not have an WM Smartphone, as the stock ROMs are normally slow, many times out dated, and not suited for my needs.
I hope that HTC understands that sites like these are the BEST PUBLICITY that they can get fro their devices. You have people working for FREE to make the device better, what else can they ask for?
Instead of promoting, cooperating with the main chefs, and using it to their advantage, they prefer to drag them to the court, and shut them down!!!!
They already void your guarantee when you flash a custom ROM, so I can't see how initiatives like this can cost them more money.
I hope they realize that soon, and save their faces by gracefully changing their position.
I do not say, approve, but at least look the other way
I hope more people will join this cause.
Android is opensource so remove all htc apps in ROM and host htc apps @ mediafire
I Support you if its possible. How about a open letter to htc in Taiwan? I can write a letter as PDF and share it here.
Maybe we should download all of those ROMS an reupload the on a sharehoster only to start a thread with the collection of links over here? Or Maybe a thread in every Device-specific forum?
Thoughts? Want to participate?
How dumb are HTC?
It is the ability to use cooked roms that has helped me tolerate the flaws in WM over the years.
Without the offending roms I would have stopped buying HTC phones years ago. IMHO they should be encouraging the chefs.
They've gone all APPLE!!!
If they persist with this I might as well buy an i-prat and just jailbreak it.
Although slightly off topic I see the WM7 wont allow Sense etc, will HTC still be on their hobby horse. (from what I have read elsewhere it was people messing with sense that p1$$ed them off).
Can some one Post the E-Mail Address /Contact to take my part (and hopefully others) in this ridicules process?
I want to tell them how stupid that is...
Maybe I should switch over to IPhone... if you can't customize it at least works better out of the box!
Dino Crisis said:
Can some one Post the E-Mail Address /Contact to take my part (and hopefully others) in this ridicules process?
I want to tell them how stupid that is...
Maybe I should switch over to IPhone... if you can't customize it at least works better out of the box!
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http://www.htc.com/www/CS_Mail.aspx
Germany Deutsch +49-692-222-7334
Mon - Sat 09:00 - 18:00 (Mon - Fri) 09:00 - 13:00 (Sat)
upload all ROM's to multiupload.com
but my upload speed sucks
acky85 said:
http://www.htc.com/www/CS_Mail.aspx
Germany Deutsch +49-692-222-7334
Mon - Sat 09:00 - 18:00 (Mon - Fri) 09:00 - 13:00 (Sat)
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Thanks
Have sent email....
what do you send? can i use ur text? My english sucks
another site where I posted a modified version of ephestiones letter (thanks for that!) is http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
EMail addresses I found are
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
HTH, Franky
No cooks, no buy
I wouldn't have bought my HTC Rhodium if there weren't custom ROMs available for it. None of the stock HTC ROMs are any good compared to custom ROMs. HTC should thank the chefs for taking their half finished ROMs and making them usable, because it's the chefs who are helping HTC to sell more phones.
That's one hell of a shot in the foot you've got there...
[RANT] This has to be without doubt one of the daftest actions HTC have ever taken against anyone...
"Hello loyal customers....... We'd like you to go to jail please! "
I heartly agree with everyone on here so far, the main reason I bought my HD2 was because of the custom ROMs on here. (Infact it got reflashed before I even put the SIM in! )
I steer clear of everything Apple because I like to be able to customise what I want, how I want. If HTC are getting all edgy because they're promoting diversity, then they should jump in the iBandwagon and I'll go back to using my Nokia.
I can say with 100% truth, if it wasn't for XDA-Dev's I wouldn't have had 6 HTC's by now. [/RANT]
Dear HTC, as a legal and loyal owner of multiple HTC devices (Vodafone magic x2, Telstra desire, Telstra hd2 and Vodafone legend) I am entitled to download any updates for these devices. As such I would like shipped-roms.com to maintain my copy for safe keeping. Seeing as you do not maintain a public copy of historical roms for unsupported devices I believe this is a suitable compromise. Also this way there is no cost to your company.
If wish to continue on this misguided attack I will dispose of these devices, buy a competitors product and never buy or recommend your product to anyone.
Yours Sincerely,
JJ
They have a forum too
HTC's official site has a forum too.
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/f/87.aspx
Check the forum before posting, make sure you pick the right place for your country or maybe we can all post in the same forum. Also, if we do let's just keep a single thread over at their forums. No sense in flooding them, that will just get the threads deleted.
I hope HTC has more sense(pun intended) than to lose distinction between piracy and a huge group of fans that can only benefit them.
I am on my 5th WM HTC device and it is basically because of you guys that I have kept on going with them. I can't imagine having all this fun tweaking, prodding, and modifying any other phones.
Android should be safe... but...
This really does suck. From my understanding and previous history with scrappy unsupported phones from other OEMs, even if I did stick to WM, I would have gone out of my way to get an HTC phone, because of this site and the work that gets done here.
Fortunately, I went with a Nexus One running android so aside from the appropriated Desire keyboard, there really isn't anything that's HTC specific app wise. Also tack on the fact that Android is covered by GPL if I'm not mistaken so that should shield at least the Android development hacks. But who knows really. It could also be a licensing issue with WM specifically that may have triggered this. WM licensing is something truly weird as none of it is really visible to the end user and is usually agreed upon between OEM and carrier.
I just hope this doesn't spread to here. XDA is the central hub of making smartphones actually smart.
Let me start by saying yes I read the forum rules for the Paid Software group and as far as I can tell I'm posting in the correct spot. I don't meet the 100+ post criteria but I also am not selling an application. If this belongs elsewhere please move it, don't delete
Basically what I'm looking for is some constructive critisim and feedback. I'm a software development major wanting to someday make a career of Android development, but as a student am constantly needing to partake in projects. For side work for the last year or so I have been doing Android rooting, flashing and modification via CL. One big issue I immedietly noticed was my scope of work. I could reach a much larger audience if travel wasn't part of the equation. This gave me an idea..
Most root methods are simply a few scripts ran in sequence, with a possible reboot or two in the process. A lot of that can even be handled by writing a single script to run each file in order, with a response wait while rebooting occurs.
I'm considering hosting a website on which users can access my server, and, after selecting their device, root it with a single click. Keep in mind I've successfully rooted over 70 phones, with no failures, and have been tediously keep track of the easiest, least risky exploits and methods. Of course rooting (like always) would be at the users liability.
Any ideas or feedback would be greatly appriciated. Android is, and poised to continue, dominating the smartphone market. I feel that a resource like this would literally be invaluable to the community. If I continue to stick with this it will probably be going on KickStarter soon.
bummmpity bumpage
Evo OTA 4.24.651.1
Have you been able to root the HTC Evo 4G with the 4.24.651.1 update?
Sorry if this question has been answered already, but I haven't found a recent (ie within a year) thread about this when I searched. I haven't rooted anything in years and I've just got a Galaxy Tab Pro and was looking into Rooting it. My friend who has an HTC One has also reached out to me asking me how to Root it.
When I started researching methods I kept running across articles that were stating that Rooting a device is now illegal? I've never heard of this before, is it true? Anyone have links to information that says otherwise?
No it's not but In most cases it will void your warranty. also most of the time you could always unroot your device. I used KingRoot to root my phone it's an app it was quick and simple.
Sent from my BLU STUDIO 7.0 II using XDA Free mobile app
It depends what you do with root. If you root it to "hack" or "snif" then you're doing a illegal thing. If you root it to costumise your Android then, you're not disturbing a privacy from another person or what else.
Hit the Thanks Button if I helped
You bought and own it. You can do what you like with it. Of course if it's a stolen phone and you're rooting it to mess with the IMEI, then that's another matter.
Does anyone have links to articles or information confirming this? Because all I can find are articles stating that it is illegal with the 2nd article below stating that "Tablets cannot be Rooted AT ALL" (*edit: apparently I can't post links yet)
godzillinois said:
Does anyone have links to articles or information confirming this? Because all I can find are articles stating that it is illegal with the 2nd article below stating that "Tablets cannot be Rooted AT ALL" (*edit: apparently I can't post links yet)
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I don't know what you have been reading, but it's wrong. Root is perfectly legal. My Nexus 7 and Nexus 9 are both rooted.
Where are you getting this information? That part of the internet should just go ahead and die.
well like I said, I can't post links yet because I'm still 'new' but if you just Google Root and Illegal a bunch of articles come up (some contradicting the others, which is why I was looking for a definitive answer from somewhere.)
godzillinois said:
well like I said, I can't post links yet because I'm still 'new' but if you just Google Root and Illegal a bunch of articles come up (some contradicting the others, which is why I was looking for a definitive answer from somewhere.)
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I think you don't quite get how search engines (google) works: you can google illegal and pineapples, and get a bunch of articles.
The only issue with rooting would be that it breaks/voids warranty in most cases, and if your device was obtained on contract i.e. still technically the property of your provider, then rooting might be against the terms of service - the consequence of which varying depending on the provider.
HypoTurtle said:
I think you don't quite get how search engines (google) works: you can google illegal and pineapples, and get a bunch of articles.
The only issue with rooting would be that it breaks/voids warranty in most cases, and if your device was obtained on contract i.e. still technically the property of your provider, then rooting might be against the terms of service - the consequence of which varying depending on the provider.
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I wasn't searching for it outright, I was actually searching for the pros and cons of rooting since my buddy was interested, and a couple of the articles I kept running into kept mentioning the illegality part. Since I can't post links I just suggested that one Google Root and Illegal since someone actually asked where I got my information. I figured it would be easier than explaining all this and then telling him to Google "Pros and Cons."
Obviously I know how a search engine works, no need for the passive aggressive comments - especially when you provide no other help than what was already said.
godzillinois said:
I wasn't searching for it outright, I was actually searching for the pros and cons of rooting since my buddy was interested, and a couple of the articles I kept running into kept mentioning the illegality part. Since I can't post links I just suggested that one Google Root and Illegal since someone actually asked where I got my information. I figured it would be easier than explaining all this and then telling him to Google "Pros and Cons."
Obviously I know how a search engine works, no need for the passive aggressive comments - especially when you provide no other help than what was already said.
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Sorry, wasn't meaning to sound that way, but your question is rather vague as there isn't one universal global law system - although arguably there should be for digital matters.
To fully answer there are several parts to look at; primarily does it violate local laws - in some cases it can be argued that it breaks copyright law. Additionally you need to question on if the 'broken law' is inforcable - inmost cases it is not and the said laws were made in a pre-digital age and haven't been updated to account for the current world. As an example - setting the wrong age (or a fake profile) on FB is technically illegal as it's against the TOS which is a legal document; but the proseccution of these lawbreakers isn't feasible or inforcable.
Although as i stated previously - this can be slightly different if the device isn't wholely owned by the user i.e. the device cost was covered by the network provider and essentially loaned to the user until the contract is over.
Fair enough - sorry to jump on you, so I guess to be more specific I was looking into the legality of Rooting devices that are out of contract in the US/Illinois. My friend's phone is older than 2 years well past his contract, and I bought a refurbished Wifi-only Galaxy Tab Pro which seems is stuck on Kit Kat for now.
I'm mainly looking to Root to turn off my back button and gain write access to my external SD card (as well as remove bloat) but the Wifi-tether I was finding in articles seems intriguing. Although that seems like if anything that came from Rooting would be illegal that would be it (and bootlegging paid apps of course.)
godzillinois said:
Fair enough - sorry to jump on you, so I guess to be more specific I was looking into the legality of Rooting devices that are out of contract in the US/Illinois. My friend's phone is older than 2 years well past his contract, and I bought a refurbished Wifi-only Galaxy Tab Pro which seems is stuck on Kit Kat for now.
I'm mainly looking to Root to turn off my back button and gain write access to my external SD card (as well as remove bloat) but the Wifi-tether I was finding in articles seems intriguing. Although that seems like if anything that came from Rooting would be illegal that would be it (and bootlegging paid apps of course.)
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You can easily bootleg paid apps without root, so don't think that rooting is opening up the phone to the "dark side" of Android.
Rooting devices is not illegal anywhere in the US. It does, however, void your warranty and if you were to trade in the device for credit towards a new one they will likely not take it and force you to pay the difference.
But if you own the device outright (not on contract or paid full price), it is yours and you can do anything you like with it. You can root it, you can smash it with a hammer, or you can bake it into a cake. The possibilities are endless.
Even if you don't "own it" outright yet (i.e. are on a 2 year contract or pay monthly installments) you can still modify the device in any way as long as you finish your contract/agreement.
As long as you don't use root access to do illegal things, it's perfectly fine. Root itself is harmless.