Database Info

[Q] Programming language for Windows mobile devices

We are a small company looking to do some inhouse programming using tablets. Initially we were going to move forward on an Android Honeycomb platform because we have only Java developers here. But it looks like we can't get rugged tablets for that platform. There seem to be a lot more rugged tablets that are Windows based.
Initially I thought that we would have to use C# /.Net to code for native applications for the Windows tablets (and Windows specific API). But a colleague of mine thought we could use Java to build native applications on the Windows tablets also. Is this true? Can I use Java to build applications that can be deployed both to the Windows tablets and the Honeycombs? Our applications will also use GPS location based services. Any feedback/pointers would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks.

What devices are you talking about? Phones (running Windows Mobile 6 or Windows Phone 7) or tablets (like the iPad, currently running Windows 7 and in the future Windows 8)?

Most of Windows-based tablets are based in just normal Windows computers on x86 processor. Only very few are Windows CE-based.
On Windows XP/7 tablet PCs you can write in Java without any problem. I am not sure about GPS usage, but it can be read using JNI or just serial port. You can have some common classes/class libraries for Windows and Android, but the device logic and UI needs to be specific (and the JVM is different - Sun JVM vs. Dalvik).
On Windows 8 with "Metro", however, there is no sign yet you can develop WinRT apps using Java.

I am talking about Windows 7 tablets (and Windows 8 in future)

If you want create an app you need C# and silverlight

stre67 said:
I am talking about Windows 7 tablets (and Windows 8 in future)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for Windows 7 you can develop using more or less whatever you prefer since there are no differences between the OS on the desktop and a tablet.
So yes, you can use Java for Windows 7.
There is some API for Location services in Windows 7 however I don't know the details about this.
I also don't know much about Android, but if you can develop for Android in Java you can at least share some code between the Windows 7 and Android version of your software.
Windows 8 will introduce a new kind of app (metro-style app) and those apps can only be written in HTML5 and Javascript or C#/VB.Net/C++/C and XAML.
However, users will still be able to use your Java Apps on Windows 8.

so it looks like Windows 7 is like a windows 7 PC. I can't find any specific books on amazon, so I do apologize if my questions are stupid.
1) Can I develop a Java application similar to that of a desktop and deploy the EAR/WAR file to the windows 7 tablet? if so, does the tablet have an inbuilt web server type application (websphere, tomcat) to serve pages? if not, will the app be loaded on a remote server and be accessed via a browser? In this case the tablet will need an internet connection all the time, correct?
Thanks again.

A Windows 7 Tablet is basically just running the desktop version of Windows 7 so you can do anything with the tablet that you could do with a Windows 7 desktop machine.
Note that Windows Phone 7 is an entirely different operating system that's barely connected.

[Q] Win XP on Transformer prime

Hi
I've seen a few threads about running win 95 and even win 98 on certain android devices.
What l was wondering was is it possible to run win xp on a high powered device such as the transformer prime?
I've heard that some people have done it on HTC Evo, but haven't heard or sen any transformer / tegra based tablets doing the same thing...
Now I'm no programmer / coder of any sorts so my understanding in this field is somewhat basic.
In short l was wondering has anyone attempted / succeeded?
I truly apologise if there is a thread about this somewhere already. I've been browsing the web, but not much luck in finding user friendly info.
don't hate me for beeing a noob...
Kind regards
DeboX

There are different facets to this:
1) Native (installing beside/over android) - this isn't possible as Windows XP or Vista or 7 have not been released for the ARM architecture (which is what most android devices, including tegra are). However, windows has said that they are releasing Windows 8 for ARM, so it might be possible to install that natively on the Transformer.
2) Virtualized - this could be possible, you'd just need something like Virtualbox, but for android that would allow you to create/host virtual machines. I currently don't know of anything that will allow you to do this with XP, and the ones that let you run 95/98 are painfully slow, even on the transformer / prime
3) splashtop - this might be your best bet, get Virtualbox on one of your desktop/laptops and install XP on that, then install Splashtop on the virtual machine. You can then either use ASUS MyCloud of Splashtop Remote HD to access it, and it will even reroute audio from the VM to the tablet. This is what i do for Win 7
hope this helps

Well, l have seen a few projects using boch and QEMU to setup a vm centred around win 98 and heard of one that is trying to setup xp, but performance is a question.
The splashtop idea is good, but it requires internet access , which is an issue....

DeBoX said:
The splashtop idea is good, but it requires internet access , which is an issue....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, forgot to mention that
Splashtop is what i use though... I use it to watch blurays on my TF101, works like a charm, even from the other side of the world though

Evo 3D owners most likely lucked out in terms of the proprietary graphics tech behind the screen matching up with the XP spec. Windows bears no direct relation to Android or Linux, as such there's more that needs to be rendered independent of the CPU. XORG, the main window rendering component of most linux UIs, is able to piggyback off the usual Terminal Emulator in Android. While the Evo 3D/Milestone 2 Global Windows exploit is pretty great in the eyes of this DOS nerd, it's not the only way. I routinely run Backtrack5 (Ubuntu based :angel and I've made some progress getting WINE terminal up and running therein, so EXEs and MSIs shouldn't be far behind.

[Q] Windows RT Debug Tools

What is the current best method to get Microsoft debug tools and symbols onto a windows RT tablet?
Mainly looking to get cdb working
Thanks

BradStevenson said:
What is the current best method to get Microsoft debug tools and symbols onto a windows RT tablet?
Mainly looking to get cdb working
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't believe you will be able to install cdb, but I could be wrong.
The following articles may help:
Remote debugging on Windows RT, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/bg126234.aspx
Running Windows Store apps on a remote machine, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh441469(v=vs.110).aspx
For completeness, I have not been able to get any USB/Ethernet NIC adapters to work, even though its Microsoft's recommended [required?] method. I'm fairly certain USB/Ethernet NIC adapters on RT are mythical like unicorns and leprechauns:
Which USB/Ethernet NICs are supported for Remote Debugging?, http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...r-remote/59e36bd6-62c4-4b4f-8364-ae25a50a0fbf
Need USB-Ethernet NIC for Windows RT Remote Debugging, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17387573/need-usb-ethernet-nic-for-windows-rt-remote-debugging
Jeff

> Mainly looking to get cdb working
My bad... someone claimed they got cdb running.... see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=43032646&postcount=14.

Zune Driver for ARM to allow USB phone connection

Hi Folks.
With both a Zune HD and WP7 devices not supported via USB conenction to a Surface RT, I was thinking there had to be a way to tweak/re-write the ZuneHD / Zune driver files to allow them to be installed on the Surface RT...The ZuneHD is an ARM based device running Windows Embedded - and RT is an evolution of Windows CE you might say.
If so, the earlier regedit hack to allow the WP7 (or ZuneHD) to connect as a USB mass storage device would hopefully be possible, without the full ARM recompile of the Zune software (a near impossible task).
It's ridiculous that pre WP8 devices cannot even be connected via USB to facilitate file transfers "non-cloud" way.....
I tried manually updating drivers on the Surface RT with my ZuneHD connected - pointing at the Zune 4.7 drivers, and it confirmed that they were not ARM compatible.
Cheers,
Sheeds.

...
"tweak/re-write" an x86 kernel-mode driver into an ARM kernel mode driver for installation on a platform that doesn't (currently) permit unsigned drivers at all? You act like you have some idea what an instruction set architecture is, but you say this. If I ran this entire message through a translator to Finnish and then ROT-13'd it, you'd probably have a better chance of understanding the post than of managing to get the existing x86 Zune driver working on RT without a full re-write plus an additional hack to bypass driver signing. The Zune driver isn't exactly open-source... binary emulation *might* work at some point, but it's not practical for a kernel-mode driver (signature checks or not).
There is not, and never was, a hack to allow Zune-like devices to connect using UMS. The hack you're referring to merely un-hid the MTPZ (Media Transfer Protocol, Zune) devices from Windows Explorer. MTP(Z or not) and UMS are not at all the same thing, although they can sometimes be used for some of the same purposes.
We'd have a much better chance of getting Zune to run on RT, actually. That's "just" a matter of emulating an x64 machine for it to run on and passing its system calls through to the real OS and back again. Won't do any good for this use case without the driver, of course.
What does it matter that RT and CE run on the same ISA? The driver that we need is x86/x64 only.
There is basically nothing in common between CE and NT, aside from the fact that they're both portable operating systems from Microsoft and both implement some large portion of the Win32 API. Claiming that "RT is an evolution of Windows CE" is laughably wrong. They probably have less in common than Windows 95 (9x kernel, partially based on Win16 code) and Windows 8 (NT kernel, completely different project that contains no portions of DOS/Win16 except the re-implementation of the shell in NTVDM) - at least Win8 can run (many) Win95 apps. CE is at least as different from each of those as they are from eachother.
At this point, I'd guess that the most practical way to connect Zune on Windows RT would be the following:
a) Use a full x86-machine emulator (Bochs or QEMU, for example).
b) Use one that does JIT and/or dynamic recompilation, so the performance isn't abysmal (not sure what qualifies here...)
c) Install XP on it (no point targeting something newer).
d) Install Zune on the emulated XP.
e) Forward the tablet's USB port to the emulated machine's USB port (not sure if anybody has the ability to do this... currently, we can't even get networking in the emulated machine).
Good luck with that! I actually mean that quite seriously, I have a WP7 device myself and it annoys me that my Surface and it can't communicate except over Bluetooth (and I had to hack the phone to get that much).

GoodDayToDie said:
...
"tweak/re-write" an x86 kernel-mode driver into an ARM kernel mode driver for installation on a platform that doesn't (currently) permit unsigned drivers at all?QUOTE]
LOL - Thanks for the informative reply Luckily I have no delusions of grandeur over the fact that I am A) not a Developer and B) can't code past "hello world"
I was coming from the angle of the old registry hack for WP7 which allowed your phone to work as a USB mass storage file by a simple change via regedit to one of the registry strings associated to the Zune Driver....Certainly ignorant of the finer (and even the coarser) detail of your reply...so thanks for the explanation.
I added a MS Answers post asking why Microsoft cannot provide USB device connection for legacy WP7 and ZuneHD units with Windows RT. Be interesting to see what they or their MVP's reply to this, if at all.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yeah.. asking MS to support the devices is definitely the best approach. We might manage to make a user-mode connection to them using some third-party software talking directly to the USB port on sufficiently hacked RT devices, but that's about the best we'll get.
Also, I really with people would stop calling it a "USB Mass Storage" hack. I've posted to that effect in the relevant forums that I can find, too. This is not now, never was, and (short of custom ROMs or special bootloader modes) never will be a UMS interface to Zune-like devices. The device literally doesn't support it. Please don't confuse Media Transfer Protocol for USB Mass Storage. They are *not* the same. For example, those nicely named music files you see when using the "UMS" hack for WP7/Zune? *THEY DO NOT EXIST* anywhere on the device's filesystem. True, there are files containing the same binary data, but they have names like "2D.mp3" and are stored in a filesystem structure designed to make referencing them in a database faster. MTP exposes a hierarchical storage system (which may, coincidentally, mirror the filesystem although it does not do so on Zune-like devices), but it does *NOT* expose the filesystem/storage (which is what UMS does).

start menu

Is there a way i can add the start menu on my rt, I installed pokki my desktop running windows 8,but cant seem to install on my rt.

ha, nope sorry buddy! windows RT is completely different to windows 8, RT is using a ARM processor 'tegra 3' this means the software will have to be made for an arm CPU, that's why it won't work on your rt device. this is also why there is a marketplace for downloading all of your apps....
sorry.

ssfirme said:
Is there a way i can add the start menu on my rt, I installed pokki my desktop running windows 8,but cant seem to install on my rt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can jailbreak your device using this and then run classic start menu from here. works perfectly on my surface rt

Dane, you're actually incorrect... there's a hack available (on this very site, even), commonly referred to as a "jailbreak", that allows running apps which aren't from the store, sideloaded, or from Microsoft on Windows RT. They still need to be compatible with ARM, as you say, but recent .NET apps work fine with no changes, and many C/C++ open-source apps have been recompiled.
Classic Start has been available on RT for a couple weeks now, using this method. Download the jailbreak hack, unzip it and run it, then follow the instructions. Download and install Classic Start following the instructions in the post linked from my thread, List of desktop apps for hacked RT devices, then restart Windows Explorer (or just log off and log on again) and you'll have a Start menu if you want it so badly (I don't get the fuss; on a tablet, the Start screen really is a better option IMO, but it's available).
Also, there is actually a work-in-progress hack to allow running unmodified x86 programs on RT as well, using dynamic recompilation from x86 to ARM code.

Why would you need a start menu on Rt?

You actually can... I've got 7-Zip, PuTTY, Gvim, MirandaIM, IKVM (and through it, Burp Suite and some other Java programs), Fiddler 4, Python 2.7, and some other "legacy" programs installed on my RT. I'm working on porting Chrome (it's a chrome-plated ***** of a project, if you'll excuse the terrible joke). I also temporarily install additional apps to test them out as people port them to RT. Finally, I've installed the Win86emu beta, which isn't a legacy program but is a desktop program; it's written especially for Windows RT and allows running (some) x86 legacy apps on RT directly and unmodified.

deeman said:
Why would you need a start menu on Rt?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
more of a want than need but it's a familarity thing, i'm sure.

Can I get GOM player or any good player working on RT which can support most extensions ??

mohitgalaxy3 said:
Can I get GOM player or any good player working on RT which can support most extensions ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unrelated to this thread