Hi Everyone,
Ive been on a bit of a mission with T-mobile and have been in touch with the directors office, they are under the impression that nothing has been locked down on the phone in rc7/rc30 that would limit the use of the phone from a development standpoint.
Ive given them a few examples of things that cant be done but they refuse to do anything (other than cancel my contact if i want) as im only one person who is complaining.
I know everyone runnning rc30v1.2 and rc8v.12 is ok atm, but could EVERONE please send a little email of complaint. Just explaining that you are unhappy that they have locked down the phone and denied us root.
cl&[email protected]
They say that if they get more complaints then something will be done
ITS WORTH A SHOT ISNT IT?
PS... If anyone wants to cancel their contract in the uk because of the lack of access, call 01707 315000 and ask to talk to Leah within the Directors team about your G1 problem. I explained that i couldnt get my apps working because i couldnt edit/add files to system directories.
They should offer to cancel it, it worked for me
Yeah, it's worth a shot, although from past experience with T-Mobile this may be akin to trying to extract blood from a stone
I tried doing the same thing after I got my G1 (before anyone figured out the hole in RC29). I found the people over at T-Mobile USA are just as clueless. As soon as you mention the words Android or G1, they instantly transfer you to a different support queue. I tried to explain what root access was and they didn't have a clue what I was talking about.
I found that here in the UK also, these people work in the directors team and so far have not fobbed me off.
They dont claim to be technical but are at least talking to the T-mobile developers about this. They have raised my concerns with the UK G1 manager, i think my case just needs a little more oomph from others complaining.
I've already called HTC, G1 support, and the PDA/Smartphone support ppl. None of them were willing to even try to understand the issue.
T-mobile have just called me and have advised that we should expect a statement about the issue by the end of the week. The issue is now with board members apparently
Maybee they are actuclly starting to understand??
You should have them email. At least that way it leaves a paper trail.
SGTDavePwnage said:
T-mobile have just called me and have advised that we should expect a statement about the issue by the end of the week. The issue is now with board members apparently
Maybee they are actuclly starting to understand??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very interesting that T-Mobile is even considering the idea of allowing root access, to the point where it would be an executive decision by the board members. Do you have any other information on this aside from your first post? Can anyone else confirm this?
i phoned tmobile uk today and asked why i couldnt get root on my tc5-rc8.
and i had a long talk with the guy and he said he had a email about this issue
and went throught a few things with me on my phone. and then he said he would phone me back tomorrow with someone that new more about the g1 then the tec support staff. and he would be able to give me more answers about it.
qtronix
Cool
Sounds like my insessant *****ing at T-mobile support might have gotten us somewhere?
At least techies are not fobbing people off at the moment.
Could you please concider sending an email to the address i posted, just so they are aware that others are miffed.
******This is a copy of the email i sent to the directors team******
Leah
Many thanks for your call....
As t-mobile dont seem to see/understand the problem I have given the contact details of the director team to a group of developers so that you can hopefully get a few more calls about this. Please believe me that I am not the only person who has these concerns, but when people call tech support about this they are simply fobbed off by people who are not trained/do not understand the issue.
I would like to point out an error with t-mobiles response that they have in no way locked down the phone so that it is detremental for putting developed software onto the phone.
Please see a few examples of how the new RC8 Software limits Developers :-
1. Say I wanted my screen to automatically rotate without wanting to open the keyboard, this is simply a matter of editing offset: 1104724 within /system/framework/framework.odex to 0x0F001246.
I could do this on the old software but not on the new RC8
2. Say i wanted to update the web browser to do the same, this would mean editing the origional browser source code released by Google and putting it on my phone. Again, this was possible with root access on RC7 but has now been made impossible on the new RC8.
3. Say i wanted to make a tethering application that allows me to use my G1 as a modem to my PC (i know this would cost me money on my contract for data transfer) but I might want to do it so that i can connect to my workplace vpn to fix something. This was Doable on RC7, but now is not.
4. The G1 currently has no way of clearing cache for the marketplace, this again was doable on RC7 but not on RC8
5. The G1 has a limited ammount of space to install applications. It would be a good idea if we could install applications to our SD memory Cards, but again we cant do this because of the new software.
The above examples are just some simple things developers are working on that would benefit the phone, but we cant develop them and put them on the phone.
Basically anything that means editing a system file / writing a file to a system directory is now impossible.
Please understand that developers are not trying to take over the world or ruin the phone. We are simply trying to make the phone do what we want / improve the features.
This is how OpenSource works. Everyone has access to the Source code so that it can if neccecary be customised/edited to improve things for everyone.
The new software has made it impossible for programs that interact with the main system files or require extra files to be put in a system folder, to work.
Developers understand why the phone RC7 software was unsafe in the way it ran commands, we understand why you fixed the command running problem, but instead of fixing the issue properly you have just locked down root access?? Why??
If the new software in no way limits what developers can do, then why when you search on the net are so many people “Jailbreaking” their phones to get the access they require.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081105-android-liberation-t-mobile-g1-jailbroken.html
Can i draw your attention to
"In contrast, the G1 has been developed by the Open Handset Alliance project. It's extremely unlikely that this alliance, which is committed to an open platform, will engage in the same kinds of protective shenanigans that Apple has resorted to. The Android philosophy states that "anyone can contribute to Android and influence its direction. That means that anyone can download, build, and run the code needed to create a complete mobile device."
So why jailbreak an already-open device? One big jailbreak advantage is that it allows you to bypass the G1's internal storage. Until now, you were limited by the G1's built-in memory for installing and running programs. With the jailbreak, you can install applications onto a local SD card and run them from the card. Running low on memory? Just swap cards in and out.
Jailbreaking also allows you to use low-level tools that run in the background. Want your G1 to call home and report your location every 20 minutes? A simple Unix process, called a daemon, can handle that for you. You can set daemons up to remind you of appointments, to scan for nearby wireless devices and more. The world of handheld computing doesn't begin or end with graphic interfaces. There's an enormously rich world of possibilities available through command line processes.
Most importantly, jailbreaking gives you complete control of your system from the bottom up. It lets you stop thinking of your phone as a handheld gadget and start using it as a fully-capable Unix platform. "
Please could you explain how T-mobile are of the opinion that they have not limited developers with the above examples in mind.
The G1 is being sold as a Developer friendly OpenSource Phone. How can you claim this is developer friendly when the software severely limits what developers can do?
Are T-mobile saying that the phone was never supposed to allow users this access and that the RC7 root access was a mistake?
Eagerly Awaiting your response..
******
Well written, although I would have DEFINITELY left out the part about tethering the phone.
vr24 said:
Well written, although I would have DEFINITELY left out the part about tethering the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did think about that, but then i reconcidered as we already have tetherbot which works without root.
Suppose we will just have to see if anything comes of it
SGTDavePwnage said:
I did think about that, but then i reconcidered as we already have tetherbot which works without root.
Suppose we will just have to see if anything comes of it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can always call t-mobile and say that after you updated the phone it is now:
constantly feezing, apps are running slow, and at times you can not connect to internet.
also tell them that you tried a factory reset and it did not help (make up a story that you have friend that has a lot of app and his phone runs faster than you phone with no apps installed)
if you have insurance they will send you one for free, you just have to return your old phone,
i believe they are still sending out rc29 for replacements as of now.
friend and cousin tried it and it worked.
might be worth a shot
Just got this in my inbox:
"Thank you for letting us know of your concerns with the 'open source' and 'root access' on your G1 mobile phone. We really do appreciate your comments about this.
We're aware that there are concerns in relation to this and our leadership teams in the UK and the USA are currently reviewing your comments and our position. We plan to provide you and other customers with similar concerns, with a response early next week, which should answer your concerns. I'll be in touch with you then.
Your comments are extremely valuable to us Mr * and I'm grateful for your patience while we look into this. I'd like to thank you personally for your co-operation.
In the mean time I hope you enjoy your weekend.
Kind regards
Leah Young
Directors' Office Co-ordinator
T-Mobile (UK)"
Of course, their answer could be anything from "f*ck off" to "yes, we'd love to embrace the openness of android with both arms, here everyone, have root!" so we'll all have to keep our fingers crossed 'til monday.
Well I just hope they release an update with options that allow us to turn off all background services (myfaves) and unwanted datatraffic (or actuall prevent overriding options when roaming).
How did that dead horse like the beating?
Perhaps a dead horse. Could it be that Tmo has now figured out that with root access, it won't take long for people like the coders at XDA to fully jailbreak the device to the point that voIP will be easy for any user to obtain? Are they just trying to protect their ability to profit off of voice traffic?
rynosaur said:
Perhaps a dead horse. Could it be that Tmo has now figured out that with root access, it won't take long for people like the coders at XDA to fully jailbreak the device to the point that voIP will be easy for any user to obtain? Are they just trying to protect their ability to profit off of voice traffic?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hummm... I think ALL wireless providers are threatened by VOIP but the main reason root access was blocked was due to bad press mainly by tons of articles stating that there is a huge security risk and a flaw was found with Android which could let remote users attack someone's device...blah blah blah and so forth. That pretty much scared T-Mobile and Google which hated to have bad press so close to the G1 just being released and were forced to correct this issue. The only problem with that protection came with closing alot of freedom for the G1 and may happen to alot of more Android-based devices in the future, I'm afraid... Maybe Google will realize that there are other ways to protect mobile hijacking (which is extremely rare anyways) by creating some type of built-in firewall software instead?
rynosaur said:
Perhaps a dead horse. Could it be that Tmo has now figured out that with root access, it won't take long for people like the coders at XDA to fully jailbreak the device to the point that voIP will be easy for any user to obtain? Are they just trying to protect their ability to profit off of voice traffic?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root is not necessary to build a voip app. Fact is, G1 launched with a skype-compatible voip app called iSkoot. Look it up.
SGTDavePwnage said:
Cool
Sounds like my insessant *****ing at T-mobile support might have gotten us somewhere?
At least techies are not fobbing people off at the moment.
Could you please concider sending an email to the address i posted, just so they are aware that others are miffed.
******This is a copy of the email i sent to the directors team******
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wont quote the entire email because its big. but you sir are very well spoken, great email!
Looking for possible ROM testers.
I'm currently learning about the all of the potential that the android operating system has and would like to get feedback and reports from other users. I'm looking for one or two testers (if i get quite a few PM's, i will definitely consider changing this, but I want to stick with a captive audience at least in the beginng). The knowledge level can vary, as I'm looking for feedback and checking to see what works/doesn't work. I only have a few specific criteria that I'm looking for in testers which I will note at the bottom.
A little something about my expectations...
I will in no way ever refer to myself as a developer. I'm merely a person that can follow directions, ask the right questions to the right person, and learn along the way. I'm not starting this to make money, to show off any sort of skills that i may posess. I would just like to make this a hobby as other "developers" and users like myself have done. I cannot promise a fast ROM. I cannot promise that it will look the best (at least in the beginning). I can promise I will take in all feedback and suggestions and have some consideration towards them. My biggest reason for testing is to find all the nooks and crannies and make sure they're clean. I do not have 4G here in arizona, so i have no clue if it works or not (It's based off stock so I don't see any reason it shouldn't). Etc etc..
Tester Criteria
I would like at least one user that has not formatted their SD card with ext2/ext3 file system for apps2sd. I will provide help with this if/when needed and I would like to give instructions to verify that it is working.
Someone who has 4G in there area, that also uses social networking.
Some sort of Instant Messanging application, you name it and I'll download it and make a username. It makes it so much easier to talk and get feedback when a conversation can be held. A definite plus is someone that has a headset and knows how to use programs such as Ventrilo or Teamspeak (think xbox live for Windows).
Patience with myself.
PM me and I will get back with you as soon as i can.
I'll help no apps2sd and I have 4g I'm not a dev dev but know a lot of android stuff b
As the title mentions, I have create a new app but need to be able to incorporate a database into it. I am looking for anyone who might have a bit of experience who can help me get the database portion of the application up and running. I think once the basics are down, I can probably handle the rest but comparing it to the stuff thats already one there. I have the beginning portion of the application done already, and working.. but I am holding off on adding any extra until I can get the database incorporated.
What I need the database to do:
As of now, store 1 numeric value, store the date and possibly be able to call that information back.
Please let me know if you might be able to help.
Thanks!
EDIT: By the way I am willing to give credit or work with someone with the talent to get this done.
Hello to all on this forum.
I have a Flash application that I want to develop into an Android app. I would not require some of the bells and whistles that are currently on the application, but a simple sub-set of how it works now. The flash application can be found here:
FastFood.com/nutrition/
(Hope this URL is allowed here as it will help people understand what I want to do.)
I have all the source files and programming for this and hoped they would be of some help in developing the Android app. But of course, I have no idea if this is any help at all to whoever develops the app for me.
Anyway, before trying to source a developer to do this for me, I thought I should ask a few questions to see if this is even something practical. So I hope some of you can give me some guidance regarding my questions.
1) Are most applications stand alone in the mobile phone, or is it common for some of these apps to access the network to get the necessary data required to operate? My purpose requires a database that is currently 14 megs, and must be accessible to the app, although only small portions of it are needed at any one time.
2) Are there varying systems within the Android family, or versions of the operating system that need to be accounted for?
3) Are there good reasons to develop for both Android and iPhone together? I mean from a cost to develop point of view? Or would it likely be just as effective to develop for Android, then move on to iPhone, or others, as is appropriate?
4) I am guessing that if you have looked at the flash version of our Calorie Counter, you could probably give an educated guess as to what it might cost to replicate a scaled down version for Android. So please, take a stab at it if you can.
Thanks
So I am going to post this here, because the development section is ferboten to people trying to offer useful suggestions. Geez, I hope this is the right section.
Let me set it up. ANDROID IS BASED ON THE LINUX KERNEL. Everything, and I mean everything after that fact becomes android and bloat. Given this as the basis of all things android, I have a simple set of guidelines that should be used to create a solid, reliable, bullet proof operating system for devices able to use the android operating system.
#1. Create the kernel boot section of the basic platform that supports the very basic hardware features, including touch screen, radios, power/charging/battery management, wifi, bluetooth, nearfield, audio, microphone, s-pen,etc. Basics only. Root access is standard and can be turnd on/off just like developwer functions. No special tricks or addon hoops to jump through.
#2 At this point STOP. Every single process or service to be run on the device from this point forward should be able to be individually selectable - or not. Yes, I understand that individual services or apps may have dependancies to other processes and that thouse need to be functional in order for a particular app to work. That is why, each additional service or app must list the dependencies and in the selection process, the installion will be required to verify you have the proper services installed and functioning, if not to list them and allow you to make the decision to proceed. Viola, we have NO MORE BLOAT WARE.
#3 Make selecting additional services/apps selection process a menu driven, tag selectable process. Make the unselection process smart to verify and identify the other apps dependant on the item you are killing/removing.
#4 Allow a built in snapshot option to capture the entire system as you have customized it for yourself and allow it to be backed up to external memory with the ability to bring it back, AT WILL. With no big hassles.
Those 4 items are a good start. By themselves alone, it would put all of us in the drivers seat of controlling and living with our devices.
I am aware that such a system is not for everyone. It does require some basic technical understanding of the process. But for the vast majority of users, I am certain, that an a la carte system is far superior to the bloated monstrosities being forced down our devices.
I would appreciate any refinements to my suggestions.
The silence is deafening. It has been days. Kind of says something, don't you think?
I am so very happy (not) that these boards a compartmentalized to the point where you can't get through.
Pretty much a waste of my valuable time, especially considering the fact that if my suggestions where applied, people would be clamoring for an installation with those features. I guess there is not much true "developer" in xdadevelopers anymore.
Funny guys, with the pay to remove ads spam here. Really? Why? For what.
I leave here disappointed. Not angry. Just sad.
I'm not a developer so I have nothing valuable to contribute to your suggestions in your original post but I can offer an observation regarding your perception of the level of contribution to your thread and that is the fact that is particular area of the forums probably isn't the ideal spot to have a discussion such as this. You figured that out already so sure you can call me Capt. Obvious if you wish but I'm just pointing out that yes the forums are compartmentalized (as you've stated) in such a way that development for each device is separated out. This development is centered around AOSP based ROMs or "stock" ROMs (using manufacturer released source) so if you're looking to have higher level discussions about what AOSP should look like then deep down at this device specific level probably isn't where you want to be. So there's that . . . then there's the fact that for this particular device you can basically hear a pin drop in the sub-forums as it is since nothing much is going on by way of development.
Where specifically such a discussion would see more input I'm not sure, perhaps the main general discussion section?
Thank you for your sobering reply. I get frustrated. Already had my post bounced out of "wrong" forum while trying to speak directly to "developers" (i wanted air quotes because the term does not accuratly describe its target) So I tried this. The note pro 12.0 is still the best hardware giving the ipad a run for its money. The problem its monkeyshines kiddie software running it, or not running, or barely running it. ANDROID, indian word for crappy wannabe software, developed by clueless kids.
Again, thanks for the gentle nudge. I appreciate someone willing to conduct a conversation
Are you looking for an Ubuntu or SUSE type of setup?
I think what you are looking for is similar to apt-get type of installs, I could be wrong of course. This might be helpful for many "users". I think one of the barriers is that there are slight differences between the models of tablets, and creating the logic to put in for the sub-dependencies might prove problematic. You might get more answers to this possibility by asking one of the developers directly and sharing with them. Not a developer myself.