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Hi,
i have been using HTC phones with WM for a few years now, with Kaiser and now Rodhium.
I have gotten use to many important features like hardware keyboard, cut and paste, tweaking and flashing often.
But now i feel WM is being left appart in the mobile world, all the big companies now make iPhone and Android Apps, but very often, we WM users are left appart.
And i must agree that most WM apps or those found on WM Market are really bad quality when i see what is done on iPhone or Android (great finger friendly interface and smoothness).
And now that WM7 is coming, i see even less chance for those big companies to make WM apps, or only WM7 apps, which wont work on our WM6.5 devices.
So i am thinking of switching to Android (or even iPhone 4!!! shame on me)
I have tried an Android device (HTC Magic) during one week, but frankly, i wasnt very excited about it :
small screen
no hardware keyboard
not even Swype virtual keyboard(that would compensate the lack of hardware kb to my taste)
and most of all : NO COPY PASTE IN GMAIL !!!
I think that last point was the biggest turn off for me.
But this was 1 year ago, and with Android Froyo coming, i m thinking maybe i should try again and give it a chance?
And is it mature enough now? WM has been mature for a while, but its now time for retirement (i will think of WM7 maybe in a few years, once they got over their iphone 1.0 phase )
And with iphone 4.0 coming, i m also thinking of buying an iphone (they finally have copy / paste and some kind of multitasking).
Anyway, i m just asking about your experience about your jump from WM to Android.
Also :
When (if not done already), will Android have real copy / paste?
Is SWYPE available on it?
I didn't like my experience with the Motorola Milestone. One of the biggest qualms I had was that the Android version of AIM just isn't very good -- it has problems staying connected, and the feature-set isn't as comprehensive as the Windows Mobile version. I'm pleased with the visuals but the desktop-like functionality simply wasn't there while the WinMo client basically had almost all of the stuff the desktop could do in a mobile package. So, not ALL apps on Android are functionally better than WinMo equivalents (if they exist). Though yes, they are generally much prettier, and usually smoother unless you have a very powerful device.
Media playback on the Milestone was also awful -- besides the poor music player interface, the poppy and crackling output was terrible.
I couldn't figure out how to get copy and paste in general to work in an easy way, but it is there (I was running 2.1). Definitely not as intuitive as the iPhone though, but not that far behind WinMo in this regard.
However Android is much more refined, fluid, smooth, and much less buggy and slow than WinMo. It's also prettier, down to the deepest submenus.
Also in Android's defense the skipping audio output was probably a Milestone-specific problem and not for all Android devices. Additionally my Milestone would inexplicably soft-reset on its own at least once a day -- unacceptable for any device. So needless to say my experience overall was pretty sour, probably mostly due to the Milestone.
Swype was available as a beta; I'm sure you can shoehorn it onto your device of choice somehow.
Since the Milestone is the only decent option you have with a hardware keyboard, I'd pass on Android. If you can deal with Swype, the global variant of the HTC EVO should be very promising, and the large 4.3" screen should work wonderfully with Swype. Failing that, the screens of the Nexus One and Milestone did feel a little small-ish to me. The Desire also gets high marks and is compatible with Swype; it has the same core hardware configuration of the EVO (Snapdragon + 576MB RAM) but with a smaller screen.
EDIT: You may also want to look into the upcoming Samsung Galaxy S Pro (rumored version of Galaxy S with hardware keyboard). But it's a Samsung..
i think you shouldn´t jump to android...
Here you see SWYPE for android:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/03/08/get-swype-for-android-right-now.html
Cheers, Stephan
Yo
I have had anything and everything from Palm to Rim to Android. I Love android. Will use it forever and wont turn back.
Windows mobile is a joke, always was always will be
I've tried many an OS including WM for years, but after switching to Android there's no going back!
I was curious to hear from former Android users how you like WP7. Mainly what are your main gripes and what functions did you actually use that are no longer available. Also, are the tradeoffs worth it in the end and what features really *make* swapping worth it. I have loved android for a long time but I'm kind of wanting something new and have liked the wp7 interface from day one. Thanks!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
Here goes:
Mainly what are your main gripes
No apps, and if there are apps they are over priced and crap alternatives to Android versions.
Homebrew is going to cost money.
I know its a phone and should mainly just be a phone, but there is nothing to do on it, I never leave my Android phone alone always playing with something but this I treat it like a nokia 3310 lol.
What functions did you actually use that are no longer available
I don't know what it is but there are some things missing but Mango is looking good but still not as good as Android and Ice Cream Sandwich will be coming out around the same time.
Are the tradeoffs worth it in the end and what features really *make* swapping worth it.
Only thing that is making me want to swap over is the Xbox Live thing other than that Android is far superior.
I have loved android for a long time but I'm kind of wanting something new and have liked the wp7 interface from day one.
I love Android also and also wanted to try something new but Windows Phone 7 isn't something new. Stick with Android and Launcher7 lol ^^
I think I'm fine with paying for my phone to be unlocked personally, one time fee for the latest beta builds forever? Honestly I don't know why HTC Samsung and Motorola aren't looking into this for android devices so they can make some extra $ and make us impatient (or reasonable people that don't like waiting for their craptastic skins) people happy.
I don't care much for Xbox live like I use to but I definitely like Zune pass (really its probably the top single feature that has me wanting wp7 as I use my phone for music a lot).
I love android but honestly, I'm tired of trying to throw on custom ROMs (its fun but tiring) on every phone I get trying to keep up with the updates. I think the only thing that is holding me to android at this point is the ability to wifi tether my phone to my tablet and the fact that mango phones are on their way (fall is only 2-3 months away so announcements should be made soon?)
So guys, is there some feature that I am missing that you really either miss from android or you really like that wp7 had when you made the swap?
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
i switched from my old Desire Z and X8 (both of em are still in use sometimes) to a 7 Pro.
so in my own personal opinion, a small "comparision":
1. UI & Customization
I like the UI of WP7 alot more, you can use Launcher7 on Android but it doesn't feel as good. Its smoother and a lot faster, mostly due to inability of "customization" but i really don't miss it. The tile system works surprisingly well, and yeah i don't have a lot to complain about.
No wallpapers, no app launchers etc. It's a locked phone pretty much. If you don't mind, well just don't care
If you want customization stay with Android, else both of em are good in their own ways -> personal preference.
2. Apps
For most people an important point. If you compare Android market to WP7 market, WP7 looses.. big time!
You are charged for almost every app (and a good bunch of em are overpriced!). While free apps, and sometimes test versions of the paid apps are good enough, its still nothing in comparision to Android.
If you want specific apps, check prices first! (i'd recommend it before buying the phone )
There are some social features integrated into WP7 but at the moment (Pre-Mango for me still), they aren't complete. The replacements for those features are at best mediocore, sometimes they shut off randomly etc. There might be some better apps for those, but since i don't use em very much, i havent searched for them.
Otherwise the quality of the apps and games i downloaded is really good, though some of em are missing. As i said, check before you buy the phone, if you didnt already.
3. Features:
Well again the points goes to Android. Bluetooth File Transfer, Tethering and stuff like that, you won't find it on any current WP7 phone (unless you are a Mango user, but i don't know if they implement some of those features). If you need it, well i wouldn't recommend buying a WP7 as of now.
Other than that, i don't really miss any important ones.
4. Final Thoughts:
Since i don't have the WP7 for too long forgive me if i missed or overexaggerated on somethings.
In the end i think, WP7 is a real good OS. While locked down very hard, it just works (just like the hated Apple). While it does feel kind of inferioer to Android (due to the lack of some importants features mostly), it really isn't. There are workarounds for everything, though they are complicated sometimes
With Mango.. well no, even now in MY opinion (which means only for my needs etc), i equal WP7 to Android. While i still use my Androids sometimes (mainly for tethering etc), i often see myself not missing those phones.
I'd recommend WP7 everytime, as well as Android. Just get some information on both, maybe if your friends have said phones, compare them ( or go to the store and do the same).
In the end it comes down to one's need and preference
If you want, you could wait for Mango devices. Though i guess they won't up the hardware too much, maybe add some features like Front Facing Camera and stuff like that, but that's it.
I hope i could help some
BartJJ said:
I was curious to hear from former Android users how you like WP7. Mainly what are your main gripes and what functions did you actually use that are no longer available. Also, are the tradeoffs worth it in the end and what features really *make* swapping worth it. I have loved android for a long time but I'm kind of wanting something new and have liked the wp7 interface from day one. Thanks!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This entire WP7 OS is simply beautiful and fluid. Rather than 95% of all other android devices, all WP7s are completely lag free while still having a very attractive and intuitive interface. I have 28k apps at my disposal and that means one for everything I would want. The WP7 community here is amazing and hacking / development itself isn't fragmented. I've owned 3 android devices and 2 iOS devices in the past and I'm honestly never looking back.
Android too me seems very slow and inconsistent. Running a Samsung Galaxy I often find when the thing lags, it lags to the extreme. The whole app-store mechanism I find a mess, especially because to much power is given to the app developers. More often then not, they abuse these powers which destroys your battery life.
I like the way WP7 is headed, and I like what Microsoft is doing to keep it a reliable platform. What I don't like however, is the update-procedure as it's very poorly performed. I'm not blaming any company in particular, but I do think updates needs to rolled out faster. Why do ISPs have to test every minor update?
Other then that, the WP7 UI is far superior, and app support is coming along well now. We just need a major bump and hopefully Nokia will spark this? I'm looking forward to purchasing a 2nd gen phone, namely a Nokia.
I went from iphone 3gs to blackberry torch to palm pre 2 to samsung focus to atrix 4g to iphone 4 and back to samsung focus and i love it.
The largest difference to me is that WP7 lacks customization. With android you will hardly ever find 2 phones that have the same ui and settings. All windows phones home screens look the same. I am ok w/ lack of apps. Honestly there is pretty much something for everything already. What would make me happy and never go back to android is being able to personalize the home screen. Maybe some transparent tiles and a wallpaper background for homescreen. that would be awesome.
I'll try to keep this succinct. I had an Evo 4G for the last year, then switched to an HTC Arrive a couple days ago.
Like:
-Most of the apps I used on Android are available on WP7
-As a Zune Pass subscriber, having that ecosystem on my phone is awesome
-It feels like for tasks I do often, I can do all of those tasks in a lot less time than it took on Android
-I primarily develop in .NET, so the dev tools are way friendlier to me than Android's.
Dislike:
-WP7 doesn't have anything that comes close to the awesomeness of Google Navigation
-I'm pretty heavily into the Google Voice ecosystem. Losing the tight integration there is annoying.
-As a Zune Pass subscriber, the lack of expandable storage is agonizing. I can never completely get rid of my Zune HD because it's still the device I have to go to if I want access to all of my music/podcasts.
-The Amazon Android App Market's free app of the day has spoiled me so badly on the pricing race-to-the-bottom front that I am finding it very hard to convince myself to buy any of the games on WP7.
Overall, I am having a good time so far. There is some functionality I am missing, but nothing that I'd consider a showstopper. I still have my Evo 4G, so I might end up switching between the two devices every couple months or so.
I just switched from a samsung mesmerize to a HTC TP7.
My first impression was WOW. I instantly liked the tp7. it's more responsive, it's faster, i can do stuff faster, and everything loads faster. Typing on the screen is more accurate and fixes my screw ups better.
As for apps, the android market has tons more, but in my experience 99.99999% of them are completely and totally useless and the ones that aren't useless i found to be lacking. There were a few that were good, but not many. So far the ones i've tried on WP7 actually seem to be of decent quality and i can find an app for everything i need so far. Some are still obviously in the early stages and need some more features but the app feels higher quality. Of course the windows marketplace has it's share of fart, burp and police light apps. (who downloads these stupid things?)
My ONLY complaint so far is the fact i can't do custom colors on the tiles. the stock colors frankly suck. I tried unlocking the phone and chevron doesn't find the phone at all so i'm wondering if this phone just isn't unlockable with that method. Not being able to do custom tile colors just seems like an obvious omission that should have been fixed allready.
Other than that i like this phone MUCH better, it's faster and doesn't hiccup as much as android did. The loss of customization sucks a bit but honestly, who really cares. I'd rather have the phone work well than be able to customize the wallpaper. The tile color though is killing me.
lots of very good points expressed already, and I agree with most.
However: wm6.5 was far superior to my android in all the little area's that I liked / wanted to tweak... which left me disappointed when I switched to android and frustrated with the infancy of the android based os / app wanting some of the simple things that I was used to on wm6.5.
Then I jump back to windows mobile (thinking it will be great to reg edit again) only to find... tile overlay with no access to the good stuff, and on top of that extremely limited in more ways than android... apps (android copycat) extremely limited and very high priced... I never needed apps to do what I wanted. windows already had it, I just needed to turn it on or off and or tweak it the way I wanted it. customize to no end.
Now I really like the smooth integrated feel, and I took a step down in hardware just to get the operating system. I am back to hacking a android wanna be like device just to get to the meat of the phone, so I can use the power of wm7. I think...
Morrisme said:
Now I really like the smooth integrated feel, and I took a step down in hardware just to get the operating system. I am back to hacking a android wanna be like device just to get to the meat of the phone, so I can use the power of wm7. I think...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's WP7 !
I think all we have to do is to wait a bit. My only problem is, that the application store is pretty empty(and overpriced), but hopefully it's gonna change.
What I see is, that Microsoft tries to copy Apple in terms of system optimisation, and simplicity, and so far I say it's successful.
I hope once the marketplace will be flooded with applications, there will be a serious filter on what apps they allow, and what they don't. The main criteria of selling on marketplace should be to have a perfectly smooth application on every windows based mobile, because what I see now is far away from that. Applications seem to just thrown together for wp7 in a day or 2.
Otherwise coming from android myself, I miss certain apps, or games, or functions, but the other hand I'm impressed by it's UI, and smoothness.
WP7 has potential, but it's time is not yet here. Once a great poet said in youtube comments: "Iphone is the past, Android is the present, WP7 is the future"
I came from evo 4g and I love it I got an arrive. Its so quick. And something no one mentioned battery life is great sure if I game for a while I will need a top off bit other then that a work day is no problem btw my work day is 12 hrs
There are some surprising holes in WP7 which I didn't expect compared to other OS.
1) No common Compass API - it's down to individual hardware manufacturers to supply drivers and they all implement it in a different way. So what works on an LG won't work on a Samsung or HTC. Really hinders the use of maps and star gazing apps etc. This is despite the compass being a mandatory part of MS' hardware spec. So much for MS' tight hardware platform control. And don't think about trying Mango - even if you have the compass working in NoDo it won't in the Mango Beta - and MS say it wont be availible until the OEMs release their final versions. The whole point of a Beta and RTM is so developers can test and adapt their software ready for launch - but with the compass augmented apps (one of the killer features of modern smartphones) they are screwed. We have a common API for GPS, why not Compass?
2) No PIN delay - even the most basic phone that offers Exchange support allows a configurable delay before the phone is PIN locked, or respects the delay imposed by an Exchange security policy. Everytime my screen goes off - I have to enter an 8 character password - despite the Exchange policy allowing a max 20 minute delay. Is this fixed in mango? Is this how MS works with MS?
..and relax...
What do you think when someone asks you about the worst part about Android? Chances are, Android fragmentation is one of the first things that flies through your head. But I've been thinking about it and I haven't noticed anything to suggest that I am not alone.
It is well known that Android owns the smartphone market globally. It has done this by being open source. This has become it's greatest strength and it greatest weakness. For the first point, it is currently on over a billion devices all over the world. As for the second, I think you can guess: fragmentation. God knows how many different companies have taken Android and twisted it to their laggy and unsupported preference. I would really like to point towards the manufacturers that basically releases a new phone every month to three months. These include Samsung, Blu, and countless others. Here looks like a good place to say that I HATE THOSE LITTLE COMPANIES WITH THEIR CRAP TABLETS ON AMAZON. Anyway, Samsung probably is the worst right? With their big fancy skin and slow updates....well look at Blu! They have at least two dozen phones, tablets, and everything in between, most of which don't get a single update (to the next large update like 5.0, 5.1, etc. This doesn't include small patches, though I'm sure that they don't give many of those). Now I know that this is starting to turn into a rant, but that's OK. I'm almost ready to point out my...point. :l
If any of your friends, co-workers, acquaintances have iPhones, you might have heard the "why does my iPhone 4 on iOS 6 not support this app" complaint (or something similar). I've found that most apps work with Android Jelly Bean, ICS, or even Gingerbread, all of which are as old or older than iOS 6. Android apps support older versions of Android better than iOS does, which has very few fragmentation problems. Quick note: Some people haven't updated their iDevices to the newest version, so please don't give me crap for it. So that is my first supporting argument, which is a little harder to go against than my final point.
Quick recap: there to many different skinned versions of Android. This might seem to contradict my rage about "THOSE LITTLE COMPANIES WITH THEIR CRAP TABLETS ON AMAZON", but no one cares since most people probably agree with me on that. We should all calm down about the slow updates on our devices. Don't get angry at me and say that I must have a Nexus or a Motorola and I've never known the struggle; I have the LG Optimus G AT&T version and it hasn't gotten the official Kitkat release. Actually, I haven't even gotten an official update since 4.1.2. Thanks to custom ROMs, I'm on Lollipop right now. But that isn't the point. Maybe we shouldn't think of Android as "be together, not he same", but more like "be not the same, not together." That didn't quite work the way I hoped...
So I'm starting to think of Android a only a base and that we should think of skinned versions of Android more like Linux and it's distros. Ubuntu is based off Linux, but it isn't Linux (not actually sure if there is a pure Linux...would it be text based?). It rather another creation of it. The candied named Android versions are just new standards and aren't really necessary. I'm pretty sure that Samsung could take the current version and just add the security and new features in as they need it. Well, maybe some dev could correct me on that? Anyway, I'd like to end this summing up this thread (b/c it isn't very organized to my eyes) by saying that it's OK that you don't have the newest update and that Samsung really should add in the new features if not update the whole OS.
:silly:
I was wondering if it's possible to replace my current official ROM with a Treble supported ROM.?
my current spec:
Android version: 8.0.0
Model: G8142
Android Security Patch Level: May 2018
I've heard that phones that come with Android Oreo preinstalled only they support Treble, but my phone had Android 7.1 originally when I first bought it so I'm not sure if it supports Treble. and it's kinda important because that means my phone can get future Android versions just like an IPhone.
HotCakeX said:
I was wondering if it's possible to replace my current official ROM with a Treble supported ROM.?
my current spec:
Android version: 8.0.0
Model: G8142
Android Security Patch Level: May 2018
I've heard that phones that come with Android Oreo preinstalled only they support Treble, but my phone had Android 7.1 originally when I first bought it so I'm not sure if it supports Treble. and it's kinda important because that means my phone can get future Android versions just like an IPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think thats the case though I mean every company releases updates to their products untill they decide not to.
for instance at sony as I recall every flagship continues to get updates for 2 years after doesnt matter if it came with oreo or nougat.
and I think that companies sell producs as they are since they first came out, for instance, when the XZP came out it had nougat which means even if you buy a year after it would still come with nougat, unless Sony made more XZP units after the oreo update was released which is highly doubtful.
madshark2009 said:
I dont think thats the case though I mean every company releases updates to their products untill they decide not to.
for instance at sony as I recall every flagship continues to get updates for 2 years after doesnt matter if it came with oreo or nougat.
and I think that companies sell producs as they are since they first came out, for instance, when the XZP came out it had nougat which means even if you buy a year after it would still come with nougat, unless Sony made more XZP units after the oreo update was released which is highly doubtful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will be treble support in the future
HotCakeX said:
I was wondering if it's possible to replace my current official ROM with a Treble supported ROM.?
my current spec:
Android version: 8.0.0
Model: G8142
Android Security Patch Level: May 2018
I've heard that phones that come with Android Oreo preinstalled only they support Treble, but my phone had Android 7.1 originally when I first bought it so I'm not sure if it supports Treble. and it's kinda important because that means my phone can get future Android versions just like an IPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well technically that is not the case, as treble project is separating the software code from the hardware code, as untill nougat once google update is released the CPU manufcature should also release an update that can work with the new google update, they rely on eachother, so for example our XZP supports snapdragon 835, when google releases an update, snapdragon has to release an update for the CPU that can understand and work with the new google update, THEN sony decides if they want to work on these update and "combine them" and release it for their XZP.
but after the treble project, this will no longer be an issue, as when google releases an update, the CPU manufacture doesnt have to release an update to work with it. the codes are now "separated", to my understanding the google update doesnt have to get a hardware update to understand it but instead it LEARNS the hardware that its sitting on and work with it as compatible without having the manufacture teach it, which means once google releases an update, Sony doesnt have to wait for snapdragon to release an update to work with it, it just work on its own, Sony just modifies it in their own ways and terms and then release it to the customers, but still it will take a lot less time, and software will always be compatible and released with time
and as I understood:
"1) If your device never gets updated to Oreo, it will never get Project Treble. No way around that. Sorry.
2) If your device does get updated to Oreo, it’s still not required to support Treble—that’s up to the manufacturer.
3) If you buy a new phone that runs Oreo out of the box, it is required to support Treble out of the box."
now looking at the 3rd option, every phone WILL and not only MIGHT support Treble.
BUT looking at 2nd option, it MIGHT, which means if sony decides so, it will,
and again, once a manufacture releases a device, it will always stay on the same android version, even if you buy it after it receives an update, out of the box our XZP will come with nougat even if you buy it in 2020 thats just how phones work once released, software stays the same out of the box. but its up to sony to decide if we get Treble support and you cant install a custom rom to get Treble because it requires root, and once you root you wont get OTA's from the manufacture, which means you wont get any updates afterwards unless you unroot which gets you back to square one.
in conclusion, its up to sony to decide wether we get Treble support or not.
and to add, even if we dont get Treble support, sony will still release updates to our XZP for the next year at least and after that its really not worth updating.
every update becomes heavier and requires more horsepower to run as smoothly as possible with the least battery consumption, after 2 years I really wouldnt want to update even if an update was available as it WILL slow my device down and consume more battery because newer updates usualy have more features and improved technology that youd have to get a new device with improved hardware to fully enjoy them without having downsides, I mean only after Oreo my battery became worse and phone became a little laggy every now and then Id have to restart, imagine after 1 or 2 more updates.
to make the idea more vivid, take your iphone example, how do you think iphone 6 handles the latest update? certainly not as smooth as before, or iphone 5s, they became so laggy compared to how they were before, and its not because they aged, they are not human beings, machines dont age, maybe battery does wear out but to get slower? thats just due to heavy software and bloat.
hope that was helpful
LukeyWolf said:
There will be treble support in the future
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really hope so.
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
madshark2009 said:
well technically that is not the case, as treble project is separating the software code from the hardware code, as untill nougat once google update is released the CPU manufcature should also release an update that can work with the new google update, they rely on eachother, so for example our XZP supports snapdragon 835, when google releases an update, snapdragon has to release an update for the CPU that can understand and work with the new google update, THEN sony decides if they want to work on these update and "combine them" and release it for their XZP.
but after the treble project, this will no longer be an issue, as when google releases an update, the CPU manufacture doesnt have to release an update to work with it. the codes are now "separated", to my understanding the google update doesnt have to get a hardware update to understand it but instead it LEARNS the hardware that its sitting on and work with it as compatible without having the manufacture teach it, which means once google releases an update, Sony doesnt have to wait for snapdragon to release an update to work with it, it just work on its own, Sony just modifies it in their own ways and terms and then release it to the customers, but still it will take a lot less time, and software will always be compatible and released with time
and as I understood:
"1) If your device never gets updated to Oreo, it will never get Project Treble. No way around that. Sorry.
2) If your device does get updated to Oreo, it’s still not required to support Treble—that’s up to the manufacturer.
3) If you buy a new phone that runs Oreo out of the box, it is required to support Treble out of the box."
now looking at the 3rd option, every phone WILL and not only MIGHT support Treble.
BUT looking at 2nd option, it MIGHT, which means if sony decides so, it will,
and again, once a manufacture releases a device, it will always stay on the same android version, even if you buy it after it receives an update, out of the box our XZP will come with nougat even if you buy it in 2020 thats just how phones work once released, software stays the same out of the box. but its up to sony to decide if we get Treble support and you cant install a custom rom to get Treble because it requires root, and once you root you wont get OTA's from the manufacture, which means you wont get any updates afterwards unless you unroot which gets you back to square one.
in conclusion, its up to sony to decide wether we get Treble support or not.
and to add, even if we dont get Treble support, sony will still release updates to our XZP for the next year at least and after that its really not worth updating.
every update becomes heavier and requires more horsepower to run as smoothly as possible with the least battery consumption, after 2 years I really wouldnt want to update even if an update was available as it WILL slow my device down and consume more battery because newer updates usualy have more features and improved technology that youd have to get a new device with improved hardware to fully enjoy them without having downsides, I mean only after Oreo my battery became worse and phone became a little laggy every now and then Id have to restart, imagine after 1 or 2 more updates.
to make the idea more vivid, take your iphone example, how do you think iphone 6 handles the latest update? certainly not as smooth as before, or iphone 5s, they became so laggy compared to how they were before, and its not because they aged, they are not human beings, machines dont age, maybe battery does wear out but to get slower? thats just due to heavy software and bloat.
hope that was helpful
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the explanation, It was great.
Though I kinda disagree with the last part. for example I have a friend who had Android 7.1 on his galaxy S3, and it was running fine, empty from bloatware.
and the whole idea of making custom ROMs like Cyanogen and forums like XDA is build on that, to give Android phones a new life once the actual developers stop doing so.
Android definitely Should follow the path of Apple and Microsoft with Windows 10.
I have a Vaio Sony Laptop from 2010 and when I first got that it had a Windows home 7 on it, but now it has Windows 10 Pro x64 Redstone 4 and with the way Windows 10 works I'm sure I'll get future Redstone updates too, because these updates don't break anything and I get all the required drivers through the Windows update itself.
So the point is, Android phones specially the flag ships have the potential to be updated just like Apple IPhone products, and Treble is a great step towards this goal.
Yes phone batteries do get wear out that's why we should change their batteries every few years.
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
HotCakeX said:
Thank you for the explanation, It was great.
Though I kinda disagree with the last part. for example I have a friend who had Android 7.1 on his galaxy S3, and it was running fine, empty from bloatware.
and the whole idea of making custom ROMs like Cyanogen and forums like XDA is build on that, to give Android phones a new life once the actual developers stop doing so.
Android definitely Should follow the path of Apple and Microsoft with Windows 10.
I have a Vaio Sony Laptop from 2010 and when I first got that it had a Windows home 7 on it, but now it has Windows 10 Pro x64 Redstone 4 and with the way Windows 10 works I'm sure I'll get future Redstone updates too, because these updates don't break anything and I get all the required drivers through the Windows update itself.
So the point is, Android phones specially the flag ships have the potential to be updated just like Apple IPhone products, and Treble is a great step towards this goal.
Yes phone batteries do get wear out that's why we should change their batteries every few years.
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
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Click to collapse
You cant compare custom roms to official OTA. because devs of the roms tend to clean the rom as much as possible from un-needed bloat therefor making it super fast and consumes less battery.
for instance, my brother has a galaxy s5 with 6.0.1 on it, I rooted the phone for him, and installed a custom 8.0 rom and it became laggy (still accepted lag not too much) but it was more laggy and crashes more, so I though maybe the rom is bad so I tried another 8.0 same happened.
in conclusion: even custom roms lag (although a lot less than official OTA) but it takes a lot of work for the devs to get rid of extra bloat for the old device to run smoothly. and sometimes even after getting rid of every last bloat it may still cause slowness of the device.
AOSP roms tend to be really easy on the device, so yes even if I had a Z2 I would install android 10.0 on it if it was AOSP because, well, aosp is friendly to old devices (in my own experience).
again thats just my personal opinion, yes your friend's phone has a 7.1.1 on a galaxy 3 but its custom and debloated so you cant compare that to official FW release from samsung
AND true that your friend sees the device as quick and smooth, but tell him to get back to 6.0 or even 5.1 and it will be even faster and consumes less battery.
but again it depends on how he uses the device, some people may tolerate the heavy software and might not even notice a difference in performance, but if you are heavy user like me, heavy gamer and multi task a lot, thats when the software unleashes its true potentials, so for normal easy use its ok but in heavy use, you will notice huge differences.
and to your example, windows updates, they have differet versions of every update, there is Home, pro, ulitmate etc...
so if your PC is old and has old hardware, using windows 10 home will be quite smooth, but if it was ultimate with full functionalities it will lag like hell.
we dont have that in android, again we do have AOSP though which is very easy like a home version yet functions like an ultimate version thats why i love it
madshark2009 said:
You cant compare custom roms to official OTA. because devs of the roms tend to clean the rom as much as possible from un-needed bloat therefor making it super fast and consumes less battery.
for instance, my brother has a galaxy s5 with 6.0.1 on it, I rooted the phone for him, and installed a custom 8.0 rom and it became laggy (still accepted lag not too much) but it was more laggy and crashes more, so I though maybe the rom is bad so I tried another 8.0 same happened.
in conclusion: even custom roms lag (although a lot less than official OTA) but it takes a lot of work for the devs to get rid of extra bloat for the old device to run smoothly. and sometimes even after getting rid of every last bloat it may still cause slowness of the device.
AOSP roms tend to be really easy on the device, so yes even if I had a Z2 I would install android 10.0 on it if it was AOSP because, well, aosp is friendly to old devices (in my own experience).
again thats just my personal opinion, yes your friend's phone has a 7.1.1 on a galaxy 3 but its custom and debloated so you cant compare that to official FW release from samsung
AND true that your friend sees the device as quick and smooth, but tell him to get back to 6.0 or even 5.1 and it will be even faster and consumes less battery.
but again it depends on how he uses the device, some people may tolerate the heavy software and might not even notice a difference in performance, but if you are heavy user like me, heavy gamer and multi task a lot, thats when the software unleashes its true potentials, so for normal easy use its ok but in heavy use, you will notice huge differences.
and to your example, windows updates, they have differet versions of every update, there is Home, pro, ulitmate etc...
so if your PC is old and has old hardware, using windows 10 home will be quite smooth, but if it was ultimate with full functionalities it will lag like hell.
we dont have that in android, again we do have AOSP though which is very easy like a home version yet functions like an ultimate version thats why i love it
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Yeah I know there are different versions, even though I said that my old laptop had Win 7 Home at the beginning and now it has Win 10 X64 pro RS4 currently, it's not the point here. Android should follow the same path because just like there are almost an infinite combination of computer hardware assembled in form of laptops/PCs, there are so many Android phones with different hardware into them as well. so like you said, why should every newer version of Android be heavier than the previous one? Is it not because of marketing and thus selling more Android phones?
why a Windows based Laptop/PC from 8 years ago can still run today's Operation system without any problems but an Android phone from 8 years ago can't even boot up!
I mean if Windows were like Android and would get more hungry after every update then a laptop with 4GB RAM from 2010 for example, would surely need more than 16 GB now to run the most recent Windows OS. but fortunately, it doesn't. Windows still manages to run on 4GB and always leaves 2 or 1.5 GB of RAM free for me for other tasks. not to mention that I even play Sims 4 on it ( the graphic card bottlenecks though since it wasn't a gaming laptop in the first place).
my phone has 4GB RAM and soon with newer Android versions Google/manufacturers will make it (intentionally/unintentionally) heavier so that I will need 6 or 8 GB to use my phone smoothly.
Linux fans always boast about how lightweight, updated and bug free their OS is, and while Android is built upon the same Linux platform, but it didn't Inherite any of those features.
About AOSP, I have a phone running on 3GB RAM with Android 5.1, it's not from popular brands like Samsung, Sony etc, is it possible to install Android AOSP on it? ?
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
HotCakeX said:
Yeah I know there are different versions, even though I said that my old laptop had Win 7 Home at the beginning and now it has Win 10 X64 pro RS4 currently, it's not the point here. Android should follow the same path because just like there are almost an infinite combination of computer hardware assembled in form of laptops/PCs, there are so many Android phones with different hardware into them as well. so like you said, why should every newer version of Android be heavier than the previous one? Is it not because of marketing and thus selling more Android phones?
why a Windows based Laptop/PC from 8 years ago can still run today's Operation system without any problems but an Android phone from 8 years ago can't even boot up!
I mean if Windows were like Android and would get more hungry after every update then a laptop with 4GB RAM from 2010 for example, would surely need more than 16 GB now to run the most recent Windows OS. but fortunately, it doesn't. Windows still manages to run on 4GB and always leaves 2 or 1.5 GB of RAM free for me for other tasks. not to mention that I even play Sims 4 on it ( the graphic card bottlenecks though since it wasn't a gaming laptop in the first place).
my phone has 4GB RAM and soon with newer Android versions Google/manufacturers will make it (intentionally/unintentionally) heavier so that I will need 6 or 8 GB to use my phone smoothly.
Linux fans always boast about how lightweight, updated and bug free their OS is, and while Android is built upon the same Linux platform, but it didn't Inherite any of those features.
About AOSP, I have a phone running on 3GB RAM with Android 5.1, it's not from popular brands like Samsung, Sony etc, is it possible to install Android AOSP on it? ?
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
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Click to collapse
search its forum in xda if it exists and there should be roms forum where you can find a veriatey of aosp roms with names (carbon rom, nightlies, ressurection remix) all those are versions of aosp.
yes I agree about that I mean why would a phone need 6gb ram? or 8?? its just a way of marketing so customers think more ram means better phone etc etc (thats what I thought at first) but turns out android does require a lot which makes no sense to me especially coded with linux and unix.
but then again, todays most trendy device is a smartphone so manufactures use us and make more bloat so we'd have to buy newer phones.
as for iphone they have a better plan haha, you see yes iphone update their phones and each phone get the update no matter how old is it, but the case for iphone, they actually set limitations inside the software for previous phones which slows them down so AGAIN youd have to buy the newer iphone to re-enjoy the snappy and quick experience.
im pretty sure google will do the same even with treble support because EVERY manufacture wants us to keep buying and buying.
thats not the case in computers, because computers you can buy their parts individually, which means every piece of hardware in there has to prove it self for you to be convinced to buy it.
but in phones every single flagship for every manufacture comes with the same exact specs in terms of hardware parts (CPU, Ram size),(except camera), its the software that the devices rely on to compete.
and whats worse, SONY the best example, in their XZ2 they have the EXACT camera hardware as our XZP but it takes better pictures, why? because they improved their camera algorythms but wont release it for our device so we would have to upgrade. thats just the way it is I can talk a lot about this topoc non stop xD its just very wide and competetive
but I learned my lesson, for a 1000$ phone wether it was iphone, samsung sony its really not worth it if you think about it, its just trendy, why would people compete about how good is their camera? why would they even concider it as something to brag about? true on the device's screen these small lens cameras look great, put it on a 20" screen you will go like "WTH is this?? its crap!"
these smartphone cameras were made for instant pull and take picture, but now they all compete to become more like DSLR, but will never be as good as DSLR with that size of a lens!
so my lesson is: if you want a good camera with DSLR effect instead of buying a phone of 1000$ go buy a 200$ phone, and a 800$ DSLR camera its a lot better.
why need a 120hz display on a phone? to game? yes because its very easy to play PUBG on a small touch screen? NO its not its pointless!
so yah from now on Id buy a 200$ phone that can get the job done and play games that are playable on a small screen, as for camera and gaming I have a gaming PC and a DSLR there is really no need to pack that into a device that can include all features but will NEVER actually meet our expectations its all about the TREND
madshark2009 said:
search its forum in xda if it exists and there should be roms forum where you can find a veriatey of aosp roms with names (carbon rom, nightlies, ressurection remix) all those are versions of aosp.
yes I agree about that I mean why would a phone need 6gb ram? or 8?? its just a way of marketing so customers think more ram means better phone etc etc (thats what I thought at first) but turns out android does require a lot which makes no sense to me especially coded with linux and unix.
but then again, todays most trendy device is a smartphone so manufactures use us and make more bloat so we'd have to buy newer phones.
as for iphone they have a better plan haha, you see yes iphone update their phones and each phone get the update no matter how old is it, but the case for iphone, they actually set limitations inside the software for previous phones which slows them down so AGAIN youd have to buy the newer iphone to re-enjoy the snappy and quick experience.
im pretty sure google will do the same even with treble support because EVERY manufacture wants us to keep buying and buying.
thats not the case in computers, because computers you can buy their parts individually, which means every piece of hardware in there has to prove it self for you to be convinced to buy it.
but in phones every single flagship for every manufacture comes with the same exact specs in terms of hardware parts (CPU, Ram size),(except camera), its the software that the devices rely on to compete.
and whats worse, SONY the best example, in their XZ2 they have the EXACT camera hardware as our XZP but it takes better pictures, why? because they improved their camera algorythms but wont release it for our device so we would have to upgrade. thats just the way it is I can talk a lot about this topoc non stop xD its just very wide and competetive
but I learned my lesson, for a 1000$ phone wether it was iphone, samsung sony its really not worth it if you think about it, its just trendy, why would people compete about how good is their camera? why would they even concider it as something to brag about? true on the device's screen these small lens cameras look great, put it on a 20" screen you will go like "WTH is this?? its crap!"
these smartphone cameras were made for instant pull and take picture, but now they all compete to become more like DSLR, but will never be as good as DSLR with that size of a lens!
so my lesson is: if you want a good camera with DSLR effect instead of buying a phone of 1000$ go buy a 200$ phone, and a 800$ DSLR camera its a lot better.
why need a 120hz display on a phone? to game? yes because its very easy to play PUBG on a small touch screen? NO its not its pointless!
so yah from now on Id buy a 200$ phone that can get the job done and play games that are playable on a small screen, as for camera and gaming I have a gaming PC and a DSLR there is really no need to pack that into a device that can include all features but will NEVER actually meet our expectations its all about the TREND
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Click to collapse
Nice to see you have the same view, can't agree with you more xD
It might sound like a noob question, does it matter which aosp rom I install on that phone? are those aosp roms (carbon etc) like windows ISO file to be able to install them (flash them) on every phone?
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
HotCakeX said:
Nice to see you have the same view, can't agree with you more xD
It might sound like a noob question, does it matter which aosp rom I install on that phone? are those aosp roms (carbon etc) like windows ISO file to be able to install them (flash them) on every phone?
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
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Click to collapse
no no its still based on android haha you still have to find the right one for your hardware.
so like you searched for the XZP forums just do the same for your other phone in xda find its forum and rom section, what is the phone any way?
Yes I read reviews.
I owned a Oneplus One years ago and I gave up waiting for an upgrade and bought something else.
I here that OnePlus is better at upgrading today than they were four years ago. Is this true ?
Like I said I read and I know OnePlus 6 has available an Oxygen Beta (Android Pie) but it has not been officially released ? Is true if I buy a device I may need to wait several months until they Officially release Android Pie.
Now I know you will say just run the Beta it is stable but here is the make of break question I need Android Pay and Wear OS. My experience tells me if I flash a Beta required apps like Android Pay and Wear OS may stop working.
If I buy today I think the safe thing will be to wait for Oxygen OS (Android Pie) to be released. Customer ROMs or Beta OS will break for sure Android Pay.
Other than hating to wait for official releases this device looks fine.
No wireless charging sucks but I can live without it.
The Pixel camera maybe better but I read the OnePlus 6 camera is not bad
The OnePlus 6T will be out in November but ..... THERE IS ALWAYS A NEW DEVICE around the corner. Wait for the OnePlus 6T..... oh but it a few months this will be released.
This device gives better value for the dollar.
Android pay is not working in Beta, you should read the OP forum in the beta thread to see all the things being said.
The 6T rumor is that it will come with Pie installed but since it isn't out yet nobody knows if it will really be installed out from the gate.
Personally, I think Oxygen OS is a mess and from what I see on the threads for Pie, they're just patching it yet again and putting a new UI on it over starting from scratch. All they keep doing is carrying over bugs from previous versions and then trying to re-patch them again for either the new device model and/or new Android system. Considering treble is now installed on both the 5 and 6, IMO they should have started fresh and should have been working on coding an entirely new OS 2 years ago.
If I were you, I would wait until Pie is released in the fall and see how it goes and what the complaints are before buying anything.
Official Pie has been released, you can already download the firmware and flash it.
As for updates and kernel source upload speed, the OP6 gets both the fastest among all devices I had.
As for taking pics, use the gcam port for great picture quality and the oos cam for [email protected] recording.
The Official build for Android pie has been released today which is nice as it took only about 1.5 months after Google released it themselves.
Thanks I jumped on a sale, and ordered one.
I am not even sure at this point I care about the Pixel, it may have a better camera but I am sure ordering the One Plus 6 I saved hundreds of dollars.
The OP 6T is set to be released in the next couple months. Unless you're in need of a headphone jack, I'd wait to get the latest version.
floridaman said:
Android pay is not working in Beta, you should read the OP forum in the beta thread to see all the things being said.
The 6T rumor is that it will come with Pie installed but since it isn't out yet nobody knows if it will really be installed out from the gate.
Personally, I think Oxygen OS is a mess and from what I see on the threads for Pie, they're just patching it yet again and putting a new UI on it over starting from scratch. All they keep doing is carrying over bugs from previous versions and then trying to re-patch them again for either the new device model and/or new Android system. Considering treble is now installed on both the 5 and 6, IMO they should have started fresh and should have been working on coding an entirely new OS 2 years ago.
If I were you, I would wait until Pie is released in the fall and see how it goes and what the complaints are before buying anything.
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... That's not how android works .. even less since treble... You don't simply "patch" your Android version up to date, especially when it's a major revision that is changed. Most oftenly they start from scratch with some cherry picks. And rebuild blobs whenever necessary... files come from AOSP in it's normal form, then every time android releases a new version, this has to be merged with the current existing release yes, but that means that every difference from x that y has changes into x (x being the updated file, any of em, Y Being the old, already installed one)... Bringing something on /system over from one of the earlier oos, to a newer oos, would break alot. I mean.. we can't even run ob3 custom kernels on GM pie... Because changes... Having something stick around doesn't mean it hasn't been touched, porting is another thing, and there is also maybe a chance that it's the same group of devs handling this as it was back then. It's still oneplus. Also. Oos isnt nearly as bad as you make it sound.. Oos is by far the best fork of Android I've seen launched as an OEM specific android experience, and I've seen alot of phones. Simply due to its close resemblance of the pure experience, with it's small addins for simplicity, performance, and ease of use. The UI is Google's own new material guideline. Not oneplus'. And there was 3 pie betas wherein other Companies reach up to 18-20 betas... Are we owning the same device?
efinityy said:
... That's not how android works .. even less since treble... You don't simply "patch" your Android version up to date, especially when it's a major revision that is changed. Most oftenly they start from scratch with some cherry picks. And rebuild blobs whenever necessary... files come from AOSP in it's normal form, then every time android releases a new version, this has to be merged with the current existing release yes, but that means that every difference from x that y has changes into x (x being the updated file, any of em, Y Being the old, already installed one)... Bringing something on /system over from one of the earlier oos, to a newer oos, would break alot. I mean.. we can't even run ob3 custom kernels on GM pie... Because changes... Having something stick around doesn't mean it hasn't been touched, porting is another thing, and there is also maybe a chance that it's the same group of devs handling this as it was back then. It's still oneplus. Also. Oos isnt nearly as bad as you make it sound.. Oos is by far the best fork of Android I've seen launched as an OEM specific android experience, and I've seen alot of phones. Simply due to its close resemblance of the pure experience, with it's small addins for simplicity, performance, and ease of use. The UI is Google's own new material guideline. Not oneplus'. And there was 3 pie betas wherein other Companies reach up to 18-20 betas... Are we owning the same device?
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Click to collapse
I didn't say they were patching Android, I said they were patching their OS. Yes, I know they are 2 different things and I know things are working differently since treble. They can fully keep taking their Oxygen OS and throwing it over the latest version of Android and patch it to make it work with the new code, which is exactly what they've been doing. Yes, they get a guideline, that doesn't mean they are stuck doing only that and making no improvements/changes. There are literally hundreds of options they can code for, but don't.
I'm sorry, but it's not only simple, it's downright beyond basic even to what Google turns on and codes for features. Spare me the dribble of "pure android" please, it's a ridiculous mantra. I've not put the beta's on my phone but have been reading the forum and I have not yet received the stable update that has been just pushed out. But I already see some of the complaints coming in and no I'm not talking about the nonsensical postings.
If you think that OP is doing a great job on their OS, then you and I clearly have different standards. I'm glad you love it so much, to each his own in that regard.
floridaman said:
I didn't say they were patching Android, I said they were patching their OS. Yes, I know they are 2 different things and I know things are working differently since treble. They can fully keep taking their Oxygen OS and throwing it over the latest version of Android and patch it to make it work with the new code, which is exactly what they've been doing. Yes, they get a guideline, that doesn't mean they are stuck doing only that and making no improvements/changes. There are literally hundreds of options they can code for, but don't.
I'm sorry, but it's not only simple, it's downright beyond basic even to what Google turns on and codes for features. Spare me the dribble of "pure android" please, it's a ridiculous mantra. I've not put the beta's on my phone but have been reading the forum and I have not yet received the stable update that has been just pushed out. But I already see some of the complaints coming in and no I'm not talking about the nonsensical postings.
If you think that OP is doing a great job on their OS, then you and I clearly have different standards. I'm glad you love it so much, to each his own in that regard.
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To each their own indeed. And it's not a ridiculous mantra.just as countless many others, I do prefer to be able to switch over countless amounts of phone but still have the same familiar, debloated and resource friendly UI. Having to learning all the different "UX"s gets pretty dull, as soon as ie Samsung gets settled with one, they change design language. And that, for me, is a deal breaker, I don't feel like having to relearn the same basics over and over, and where I usually have to install another AOSP based ROM on ie my Xperia, HTC or Samsung. Whilst the OnePlus just has the familiarity and non-rubbish feel to it that AOSP has. But don't get me wrong, as you said, to each their own, and if it wasn't for people like you that don't want the stock feel, we wouldn't have custom kernels and/or ROMs. And I've ran all the betas except ob3 and currently run the stable... And I've yet to run into any app not loading, crashing, or features not working as intended. But I would recommend not jumping on the bandwagon as I regret doing so, until there are some more data and user reviews of the stable branch. And I'm not trusting anyone doing a forum post not being previously recognized or a proper reviewer. The stable build is solid, but it's still early to tell.