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Hello All,
I accidentally came across the following behaviour on my HTC Cruise, and I found it quite interesting. Personally, I am quite happy with my HTC Cruise, despite the famous display driver missing...
Of course, I am upset like most people, since HTC seemed to be so keen in advertising the device's multimedia abilities. HTC have lost a couple of credibility points for me...
Anyway, on with the question now...
When I select Programs from the start menu and move my finger up and down on the scroll bar, the display seems to demonstrate quite a lag; icons are slow to redraw and the display seems to "flicker". I understand this is quite subjective, it depends on the number of programs one might have installed, etc.
However..... When I select Programs from the HTC Today plug in, (2nd icon on top row of third tab), the same action (moving up and down the scrollbar), is so much faster!
It's not a big deal, but the difference on my HTC is quite striking. How about yours? I am a software developer and find this quite interesting as it seems to be the same function, but performace seems to be different. Can it be a setting somewhere, can it be that HTC developers did not pay the attention they should? (and admitted the fact that extra performance can be achieved by stating they will provide a "patch" for it).
Do you get the same behaviour?
Thanks for reading
You are correct.
Even when removing the "big menu" option as advised on TC tweaking, program list accessed from home plugin tab scrolls much much faster than program list accessed from "Start" menu.
This is quite interesting
................
yes same for me! - very strange, why would this be?
Yep, same here. Verrrryy interrresting.
When I actually got this device and scrolled the icons in programs, I was immediately puzzled as it did not seem to be very promising. The settings window has a much smoother scroll (yes, I know, it has less icons as well)...
I am sure there must be a difference somehow from an implementation point of view, or at least a different setting somewhere. Maybe a different startup setting, or something.
I have read about the tweaks and the different settings you can change, for example Cache font size, etc.
However, the mere fact that the same functionality has such a dramatic difference depending on how you invoke it, to me is a case of not so efficient programming.
If HTC comes out with a new display "patch" which actually manages to make a difference, then it would be almost certain that their "first" version was not so efficient, a mere indication they could have done better straight from the beginning.
They are implemented differently too. If you open Programs from the Start Menu and close it then go to Settings -> Memory -> Running Programs you won't see anything. Now if you launch Programs from the HTC plugin and then close it and then go look at running programs you will see it running. (This is assuming you don't have the HTC Task Manager configured to close applications when hitting X). Must be implemented differently in the back end.
I agree there is a difference. Scrolling of icons f.e. under programs is much quicker, not sure are executebale files running quicker too?
That really weird! scrolling is really smooth, I have noticed the icon on my top right I have a .net configurator icon, when opening programs via the plug in the name under the icon is missing but opening programs normally the name under the icon is there realated some how?
It seems indeed a different program. I have WkTask installed and when I get the Programs appearing via the HTC, I can see that this actually starts a window (as hambola says).
When I select Programs via the Start menu, no window title appears.
Another difference is that when I start Programs via HTC home, I can see the scrollbar getting "smaller" as the icons seem to be added in that window "on the fly"; then the icons always appear "top-aligned". When I close that window and reopen it via HTC, it is the same.
On the other hand, when selecting Programs via the Start menu the icons are already there, plus the scrollbar remembers its last position after the window has closed.
There are small differences really, it is just interesting how these affect the quality of scrolling...
is this in anyway linked to the driver issues?
Not sure, sometimes I'm not even sure what things are linked to driver issues and what things aren't. For example I used to have an 8525 which is apparently not affected by this driver issue. But rotating the display on that device was no faster than what I get with my TC. In fact maybe it was even slower, I don't have it with me to compare. So I don't know if drivers will even fix something like that. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
What about the dialer skin coming up on the TC. That's really slow. I see the different sections being painted on the screen. The Comm Manager will only load up fast if it's not in the "Running Programs". So first time I run it, it loads up in one shot, if i close it and try opening it again I will see it paint the different blocks. If I actually stop it in Running Programs and then try it again, then it loads in one shot. Driver issues? Who the hell knows. I doubt it though.
If driver issues fix video playback and they also fix the camera lag, i'll be content. if overall smoothness is fixed and extensive graphics (like games) is fixed, then i'll be happy.
I agree with hambola. I am not sure it's a driver issue. To me it simply shows that it could have been done better.
An even more annoying issue is the dialler skin as habola also suggests. The camera thing is also important.
To me the video playback is not much of an issue; I always encode in QVGA mode without any problem or quality loss. Quality loss is relative, I think it looks fine on the phone, obviously it's not a good idea to play that QVGA video on my PC. An additional advantage when encoding QVGA is saving space. My files in QVGA are usually less than 400MB, whereas my full screen versions are usually less than 1GB. To be honest, I do not see the use of it. Last time I was waiting in an airport, I had around 10 movies in my phone, all perfectly watchable (with perfectly watchable subtitles), a couple of GBs of music and I had additional free space in my storage card. Noway, I could fit 10 movies on it, if the quality was DVD-like. So basically, I do not mind... I think Coreplayer copes ok.
The little things such as lag in scrolling, the dialler skin coming up in pieces in a device that is a PHONE, the camera; these things annoy me.
-And how do you make phone calls, if there is no keyboard?
-Well, you press this button and the dialpad comes up...
-Ah! I see it takes some time to draw that dialpad...
-yes.......
See my point?
quickly thinking about this, it sounds like the HTC plugin is launching it in it's own shell, therefore it isn't monitoring everything else that is going on if it were launched from the main program list, ie. when launched from program list, the priority of running tasks is set to all, whilst from HTC, the program becomes the main focus. Maybe to do with threading, HTC was compiled with hyper threading, and the normal today screen wasn't. This is a very loose and fast analogy by me so feel free to shoot it down!!
also, you have to consider what memory is being freed up by which launcher, for what app etc. etc. etc. Memory plays a big part in performance, if there isn't enough of it, then the CPU has to start working shifting sh#t around, lots of cycles wasted etc. Gotta remember this is a M$ OS, they aint the brightest sparks sometimes
This same thing happens on my Athena after I launch the programs folder a second time (using standard start menu). This is most likely caused by the bitmap icons being loaded in the device's cache. Wouldn't get my hopes up.
Hi, I have moved from HTC Tornado to Samsung i600 (with WM6), and I think that it kills background applications very eagerly:
For example, on HTC Tornado I could run JVM (opera mini), media player, browser, IM, Total commander and even though the memory was almost full, everything worked, and I could return to a page in opera mini after a day of other work.
Not so on i600, usually running WMP and IE is enough to get JVM in background killed, even though there's enough (12MB+) of free RAM. I think that it kills background tasks too eagerly...
I did know about a registry key that changes memory manager's behaviour, but I cannot google it (no matter the phrase I use, I get mostly task-manager tools).
Can you remind me of correct registry path? Thanks!
I found http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...&postcount=228 , but it is only for HTC devices (I don't have the HTC reg key). And http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=373128 discusses this as well, but again, no solution for non-HTC phones.
Wohoo, it should be this: http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/540062-1.html
Trying to make the best of both worlds, I decided that perhaps the MPx220 is worth taking another look at if the memory management issue could be resolved. After all, with Media Works, I want to keep Agile Messenger open all day to receive IMs, while using the phone, surfing, playing games, etc.
Then, it dawned on me - why is the Audiovox SMT5600 with an apparently older revision of WM2K3 running things better than the newer MPx220?
A couple of registry keys.
MPx220:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Shell\LowMem ]
"ResetDivision"=dword:1
"ProgramMem"=dword:32
SMT5600:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Shell\LowMem ]
"ResetDivision"=dword:0
"ProgramMem"=dword:96
After forcing in the SMT5600 settings on the MPx220, I ran Agile Messenger and connected. Then, I ran Internet Explorer. Launched Agile again, and same copy of Agile still came back, still connected. Launched MSN Messenger. Launched Agile again, still accessible and running. Launched Tasks, Contacts, Calendar, File Manager, Resource Management. Returned to Agile Messenger, still running! With all these programs running simultaneously, Agile Messenger is still active and connected!
With the original registry settings, Agile Messenger would get lost in the memory and a new instance of Agile Messenger would launch, and not be able to connect because the original copy was still connected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd be happy if I had those registry entries... but I don't. Did it really work?
Yes, it works, now I can have many apps open, and even with 2MB of free RAM, none will be closed. If you don't have the keys, try creating them, as far as I know, it should work on at least all smartphones (maybe touchscreen devices as well but I don't have one to test)
First an foremost id like to complement all XDA-Dev staff for making such a helpfull forum.
next:
Im making a internet explorer mobile bizzness aplication for an industrial PDA
the motorola MC9090 with barcode integrated.
I allready made the aplication but tested it in a updated version of internet explorer.
My Q is: how can I update these 10 motorola machines with a newer updated version of internet explorer mobile without updating the whole windows mobile?!
Thankz in advance
never heard of any pocketpc inrom program like ie or wmp being updated by a cab
The easy way will just be to upgrade the roms, but you probably don't want to do that. I'm assuming they all have PIE 5. The newer versions of PIE are getting better (the initial PIE 6 betas were pretty bad, imo), but they're still quite beta in nature. I don't think you can use these, though, as they are built around WM 6.5. I suppose you could download a 6.1 kitchen with PIE 6 in it, then rec'mod (or whatever it's called) all of the PIE modules and make a cab file. I'm not sure it would work (pretty sure I couldn't get it to work, but someone else might be able to do it).
Long story short, it will be hard without flashing, and given that the new PIE's for 6.1 suck, I'm not sure it's worth it. I'd just go for a different browser, if you can use it. Check Meinnesys's browser review for a ton of info (he'll also say that PIE6 is crap, as I remember).
hmmmm maybe other browser then.
Yes that maybe right, Farmer Ted.
But, I've been searching and probably I will go for an opera browser or fennec.
This is a huge setback for development and if I use a proper browser the development time will be much shortened i just hope boss understands this.
Because he is pushing us to do it for pie. which makes no sense at as it is just a huge load of crap.
By the way is there a mobile browser that you recommend i take a look before deciding on opera or fennec?
Thanks for the reply and take care.
I personally use opera mini 4.2 v8 version. It's crazy fast, but may be too lite for business. Check out Iris, it's basically like PIE, but better.
I've never used Fennec, but from what I've read, it's very alpha. I'd suggest avoiding it for now.
Opera Mini and Skyfire both do their rendering on a proxy server, which makes them fast. I guess that security is lower in that scenario (although you can change the server in opera mini). They might be nice, though, for business because you could set up a single user account for all the devices, and if needed you could set up a library of bookmarks that everyone could access.
Iris is nice because it uses PIE's cookies (only browser I've found that does this), and it can import PIE bookmarks. You can set the Iris cache to the storage card as well in settings. (You can also do this with PIE, but it requires registry edits).
UCWEB6 is also fast (a little slower than opera mini), and you can import PIE bookmarks with it. It is also a light, mobile browser, and it does the rendering on your device, so I guess it's more secure than mini if less quick (in my experience).
I've been using Opera Beta 9.7 some recently. It is quite nice, and fits my tastes. I like browsers that quickly render pages in a single column. You can set it to do this, and it does so reliably. I don't care for the normal Opera, which renders pages beautifully like you see them on a desktop, but you have to futz around a ton to get it so you can read what's on there. This is all down to tastes, though, and a lot of people don't like the mobile-view. The beta version will work fine for you as long as you don't enable the 'Turbo' mode. Turbo mode is very beta, and it doesn't store cookies (or history, I believe). It's basically the same as Opera Mini, anyway, but not quite as fast.
If you find that none of the alternate browsers are suitable, I'd suggest making some registry tweaks to PIE to improve it. In particular, move the cache to the sd card, and also increase the # of connections or threads or whatever they call it-the tweaks are available in sk tools. Just max out all of them, and see if things work better.
Here is a cab that re-routes your cache to the storage card (it must be called storage card and not 'sd card'). It also sets the default download location to the sd card, increases the max connections per server to 8 and has a tweak to increase download rate. These are the actual keys:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders]
"History"="\\Storage Card\\Temporary Internet Files\\History"
"Cookies"="\\Storage Card\\Temporary Internet Files\\Cookies"
"Cache"="\\Storage Card\\Temporary Internet Files\\Temporary Internet Files"
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\Default storage location]
"All Files"="\\Storage Card\\My Documents\\My Downloads"
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main]
"ReadAllBytesThreshhold"=dword:00000400
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings]
"MaxConnectionsPerServer"=dword:00000008
You can also increase the cache size; here is the setting for 20,480 MB. For some reason, it's not sticking on my fuze, so I didn't include it in the cab:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\5.0\Cache\Content]
"CacheLimit"=dword:00005000
You need to soft reset after installing the cab. Oh, and I posted this with Iris (over my mobiler). It was kind of a pain in the butt, but do-able.
Edit: What the heck, the second cab increases the cache to 20 MB. Only install if you have the cache on the storage card. And soft reset after installing.
Alright... Here's the low-down. I'm using an AT&T Fuze with the updated official ROM. I am having more problems with web browsing than I ever had with my old device...
Opera Mobile: Randomly refuses to load images. I just get the empty box that says 'image' at the top. Reloading does nothing and the context menu doesn't appear. And when images DO load and I want to save them, I'm forced to save them in a folder on the root of either my device or storage card (i.e.: "/storage card/temp" but not "/storage card/temp/images") and am forced to go in later and organize the files into the correct sub-folders. Plus, I can't set the default save location to the storage card, so I have to change THAT every time I try to save an image, too.
Opera Mini: With the stock Esmertec Jbed, Opera Mini isn't allowed to save or read files from my device. Way to go, AT&T. We appreciate you trying to protect people from themselves, but you guys suck. I tried downloading another version of Esmertec Jbed from the forum here and OM is able to save images, but half the time they don't display fully (I get the blank squares that OM likes to use as place-holders while it loads the image). That, and OM locks up with that modified Jbed...
Skyfire: Promising, but why can't I disable javascript? I keep getting popups that are obstructing the screen and I can't get rid of. That, and it seems to be overly sensitive to screen taps. ("No, I didn't click on that! Go back! GAH! Stupid popups!")
IE: Well, it shows images that Opera Mobile refuses to, it lets me save those images when Opera Mini won't even think about it and, as opposed to Skyfire, it gives me no option to ENABLE javascript. It does, however, throw up all over itself if you try to view a page that wasn't designed for a mobile browser. Sometimes it even locks up as a result...
Which brings me to my question for you fine folks. Can anyone offer a solution or fix for ANY of the above problems? Any one of these browsers would be fantastic, if not for its crippling flaw. I've read a little on this NetFront browser, but I don't know how I feel about PAYING for yet another browser.
Oh, and MiniMo/Fennec drags my device to a crawl, so that's no good...
You could try Iris Browser: no flash support but it a good browser.
D'rath
PS: FEnnec is an alpha version
Thanks, D'rath! Iris works WONDERFULLY! All the nice things that Opera offers (tabs, 'flick' scrolling, accelerometer screen tilt) and it actually displays the images I ask for!
D'rath
I've always heard rooting/custom ROMS allowed more control over the operation of the phone like what programs are allowed to run at startup, removal of bloatware, etc, so I tried about a dozen different ROMS on my Sensation 4G and finally settled on Revelation 1.0.2. I really liked it and still do, but now I've had it for a while, I've noticed it's starting to get more sluggish, less responsive to touches, more FC, and random restarts. The free RAM shown in ES Task Manager is no more than stock. In effect, it's become like the stock ROM.
I think part of it is Chrome browser I've noticed have problems repeatedly (ironic it's touted as the fast, compact browser) but when not in Chrome I still get problems. So questions I have are:
-How do I control what starts up, is it simple as choosing from a list (like Windows msconfig)
-How do I see what's running (like Windows Task manager - Process)
-How do I see the CPU usage of processes/apps (like Windows Task manger - Applications)
-Can I figure out why it's laggy, crashing, FC?
-How do I rejuvinate the ROM short of reinstalling, is there cache I can clean out or some kind of housecleaning I should do periodically? (Registry cleaners, defrag, though they're not really recommended any more)
Sorry to compare everything to Windows, but that's my point of reference.